What is affected by cost poisons?

Thogard

So skills are obviously affected but I was wondering what else is. I’m pretty sure I know the answer to this question but I’d like some confirmation

Which of the following have their costs increased by Stam cost poisons?

1. Break free
2. Dodge roll
3. Sprint
4. Block
5. Bash
6. Moving in stealth / crouch

I’m pretty sure the answer is yes, yes, no, no, yes, no... but I’m definitely not 100% and would appreciate someone clearing it up for me.

Akinos

I don't know for sure but I feel like stam cost increase poisons affect everything. It's sorta like a reverse altereration mastery set as far as I know, minus the ult and magicka cost change. I don't see why it wouldn't affect everything that requires stamina.

Waffennacht

I honestly have no idea, I have always wondered and suspected...

BohnT

I'm 100% sure it increases every single stam cost in the game. On mag builds you see it easily that your break free cost increases by a lot.
On stamchars if i try to dodge and use as less skills as possible to survive i notice that my stam depletes much faster than it should from a cost increase of 700 per skill. Over 5 seconds this would mean 3.5k extra stam cost but that's not what's happening in game

Thogard

BohnT wrote: »

I'm 100% sure it increases every single stam cost in the game. On mag builds you see it easily that your break free cost increases by a lot.
On stamchars if i try to dodge and use as less skills as possible to survive i notice that my stam depletes much faster than it should from a cost increase of 700 per skill. Over 5 seconds this would mean 3.5k extra stam cost but that's not what's happening in game

Yeah that’s what I thought too.

But it doesn’t seem to work on block? That’s what got me curious about it. Based on the way the block formula works it should be a huge increase and tripling the cost of block for some of the permablock tanks... but that isn’t what happens .. at least not what I’ve observed.

Ragnarock41

I usually get out of stamina long before I realize I've been hit by resource poisons,
Its not only overperforming, but also a silent killer too.

And yes I know you can see it with buff/debuff tracker, I just usually prefer giving my attention to what my enemy is doing instead of that.

Waffennacht

Now pair the immobilize/Stam cost poison with a hard CC...

silver1surfer69

i just searched for this topic.

one has to be very precise with the tooltips. in german game it says increases cost of stam ABILITY. Eg cost reduction glyph is also for abilities and that means no dodgeroll, no breakfree...

=> So that means that cost increase poison does not work for that (dodge, breakfree...) as well. That is no to all 6 questions.

Can someone pls confirm that the english tooltip says ability for poison as well, because sometimes the german tooltip is not 100% precise.

Update: I just searched deeper and for ravage poisons it says abilities, but for drain poisons it just says stam/mag cost. But im pretty sure that is has the same and not two different effects. Another example for ZOS doesnt know themselves. But my conclusion will stay the same that it works for abilities.

Feanor

Well, Alteration Mastery has „Reduces the cost of all of your abilities by 6%.“ as 5 pc tooltip as well, and yet does reduce dodge roll and break free too...

ManDraKE

my chances of getting a brain cancer are increased by cost poisons.

the_broo11

Thogard wrote: »

6. Moving in stealth / crouch

I'd imagine you wouldn't be able to enter stealth when affected by the poison. If that's the case, then this one's a "no".

I had assumed that it affected everything else, but it would be awesome if someone could test the rest.

Toc de Malsvi

Feanor wrote: »

Well, Alteration Mastery has „Reduces the cost of all of your abilities by 6%.“ as 5 pc tooltip as well, and yet does reduce dodge roll and break free too...

Yeah people don't seem to get this, everything you do is an ability. Abilites are not exclusive to Spells/Skills. This is how Marksman affects bow light/heavy attacks.

Edit: ZOS is inconsistent with what they consider abilities.

silver1surfer69

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Well, Alteration Mastery has „Reduces the cost of all of your abilities by 6%.“ as 5 pc tooltip as well, and yet does reduce dodge roll and break free too...

Yeah people don't seem to get this, everything you do is an ability. Abilites are not exclusive to Spells/Skills. This is how Marksman affects bow light/heavy attacks.

im under the impression that this is not the case. i think an ability is something u need to have slotted. as i said, cost reduction glyph does not work for dodge roll. i tested this. pls proove me wrong, if i am mistaken:)

silver1surfer69

generally testing would be great. it can be done eg by duelling with a friend and then check combat metric logs. there are the costs listed as well. if someone would like to test it with me, great. every evening is ok for me.

silver1surfer69

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Well, Alteration Mastery has „Reduces the cost of all of your abilities by 6%.“ as 5 pc tooltip as well, and yet does reduce dodge roll and break free too...

Yeah people don't seem to get this, everything you do is an ability. Abilites are not exclusive to Spells/Skills. This is how Marksman affects bow light/heavy attacks.

searched for alteration mastery and found this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYATBJ8WK4s

It says that it does not reduce block cost

JAwtunes

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Well, Alteration Mastery has „Reduces the cost of all of your abilities by 6%.“ as 5 pc tooltip as well, and yet does reduce dodge roll and break free too...

Yeah people don't seem to get this, everything you do is an ability. Abilites are not exclusive to Spells/Skills. This is how Marksman affects bow light/heavy attacks.

im under the impression that this is not the case. i think an ability is something u need to have slotted. as i said, cost reduction glyph does not work for dodge roll. i tested this. pls proove me wrong, if i am mistaken:)

This is a good discussion and interested to see where it ends.
Yes I agree. Intuitively I also thought an Ability had to be slotted on a skill bar, whereas the other things that have been mentioned are processes or actions that are activated in another way (e.g. pressing sprint, crouch, block, roll dodge etc.). Whenever I see Ability mentioned in a tool tip this is my first thought. So a resource debuff poison should take effect when Abilities are activated only... then I remember we shouldn't necessarily trust a ZOS tooltip and testing is the only way to be sure. I'm on PC EU and happy to hit you with a few cost poisons if you want to test a few things.

silver1surfer69

JAwtunes wrote: »

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Well, Alteration Mastery has „Reduces the cost of all of your abilities by 6%.“ as 5 pc tooltip as well, and yet does reduce dodge roll and break free too...

Yeah people don't seem to get this, everything you do is an ability. Abilites are not exclusive to Spells/Skills. This is how Marksman affects bow light/heavy attacks.

im under the impression that this is not the case. i think an ability is something u need to have slotted. as i said, cost reduction glyph does not work for dodge roll. i tested this. pls proove me wrong, if i am mistaken:)

This is a good discussion and interested to see where it ends.
Yes I agree. Intuitively I also thought an Ability had to be slotted on a skill bar, whereas the other things that have been mentioned are processes or actions that are activated in another way (e.g. pressing sprint, crouch, block, roll dodge etc.). Whenever I see Ability mentioned in a tool tip this is my first thought. So a resource debuff poison should take effect when Abilities are activated only... then I remember we shouldn't necessarily trust a ZOS tooltip and testing is the only way to be sure. I'm on PC EU and happy to hit you with a few cost poisons if you want to test a few things.

I completely agree with u. And i have completely no interest in who is right or wrong, i just want to know what is the case and learn something. I use to test everything and most ppl would be amazed what is the case when testing stuff on a target skeleton. So i think the case is that ZOS are themselves not always sure about the stuff, at least about some stuff. No accusation, it is just like this, so we need to learn to deal with it. They fix or change more and more things with the patches. So one of the conclusions is i think we really need to test the stuff.

silver1surfer69

JAwtunes wrote: »

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Well, Alteration Mastery has „Reduces the cost of all of your abilities by 6%.“ as 5 pc tooltip as well, and yet does reduce dodge roll and break free too...

Yeah people don't seem to get this, everything you do is an ability. Abilites are not exclusive to Spells/Skills. This is how Marksman affects bow light/heavy attacks.

im under the impression that this is not the case. i think an ability is something u need to have slotted. as i said, cost reduction glyph does not work for dodge roll. i tested this. pls proove me wrong, if i am mistaken:)

This is a good discussion and interested to see where it ends.
Yes I agree. Intuitively I also thought an Ability had to be slotted on a skill bar, whereas the other things that have been mentioned are processes or actions that are activated in another way (e.g. pressing sprint, crouch, block, roll dodge etc.). Whenever I see Ability mentioned in a tool tip this is my first thought. So a resource debuff poison should take effect when Abilities are activated only... then I remember we shouldn't necessarily trust a ZOS tooltip and testing is the only way to be sure. I'm on PC EU and happy to hit you with a few cost poisons if you want to test a few things.

So lets do this:) I will check later if u are on for some tests.

mr_wazzabi

Is there a tell icon if I've been hit by a cost poison on ps4?

Will it show in my debuffs list? I seem to run out of stamina all the time in bg, even though I have 2000+ recovery, but nothing ever shows on my debuff icon list

silver1surfer69

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Is there a tell icon if I've been hit by a cost poison on ps4?

Will it show in my debuffs list? I seem to run out of stamina all the time in bg, even though I have 2000+ recovery, but nothing ever shows on my debuff icon list

i dont know for ps4, im on pc. In my combat metrics add on i can see in the fight logs in debuff section. i never checked if i have been hit, but i checked if i hit someone with a cost increase poison and it shows there.
Breaking free costs very much stam (4782 at lv 50!) and theres no cp to reduce that in BG. Maybe its that? I need a lot of reg, especially in longer fights and against better players, 2000 reg is my cut off point, thats almost to less for me, 2200 and above is better for me.

Arkangeloski

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Is there a tell icon if I've been hit by a cost poison on ps4?

Will it show in my debuffs list? I seem to run out of stamina all the time in bg, even though I have 2000+ recovery, but nothing ever shows on my debuff icon list

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I think when you are affected by resource poisons you get a fainted blue aura on your body I think it's really hard to tell on console... I will test to be more accurate.

silver1surfer69

Arkangeloski wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Is there a tell icon if I've been hit by a cost poison on ps4?

Will it show in my debuffs list? I seem to run out of stamina all the time in bg, even though I have 2000+ recovery, but nothing ever shows on my debuff icon list

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I think when you are affected by resource poisons you get a fainted blue aura on your body I think it's really hard to tell on console... I will test to be more accurate.

didnt know that, thx.

_Ahala_

Fun is affected by cost poisons... but its bugged atm and is decreasing the fun in PvP by the old 60% value

Berenhir

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Well, Alteration Mastery has „Reduces the cost of all of your abilities by 6%.“ as 5 pc tooltip as well, and yet does reduce dodge roll and break free too...

Yeah people don't seem to get this, everything you do is an ability. Abilites are not exclusive to Spells/Skills. This is how Marksman affects bow light/heavy attacks.

searched for alteration mastery and found this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYATBJ8WK4s

It says that it does not reduce block cost

@silver1surfer69
It does reduce block cost and all other costs as of morrowind. See video creator's first comment.

@Thogard
I'm pretty sure that all stam cost that are not related to a buff (block/sneak/sprint are buffs) and thus are registered as abilities (bashing, dodging, break free) are subject to the cost increase. I tested those you give a "yes" when poisons first came out and yes it is a yes

silver1surfer69

Berenhir wrote: »

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Well, Alteration Mastery has „Reduces the cost of all of your abilities by 6%.“ as 5 pc tooltip as well, and yet does reduce dodge roll and break free too...

Yeah people don't seem to get this, everything you do is an ability. Abilites are not exclusive to Spells/Skills. This is how Marksman affects bow light/heavy attacks.

searched for alteration mastery and found this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYATBJ8WK4s

It says that it does not reduce block cost

@silver1surfer69
It does reduce block cost and all other costs as of morrowind. See video creator's first comment.

@Thogard
I'm pretty sure that all stam cost that are not related to a buff (block/sneak/sprint are buffs) and thus are registered as abilities (bashing, dodging, break free) are subject to the cost increase. I tested those you give a "yes" when poisons first came out and yes it is a yes

Cool, thx for clarify:)

Toc de Malsvi

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Well, Alteration Mastery has „Reduces the cost of all of your abilities by 6%.“ as 5 pc tooltip as well, and yet does reduce dodge roll and break free too...

Yeah people don't seem to get this, everything you do is an ability. Abilites are not exclusive to Spells/Skills. This is how Marksman affects bow light/heavy attacks.

im under the impression that this is not the case. i think an ability is something u need to have slotted. as i said, cost reduction glyph does not work for dodge roll. i tested this. pls proove me wrong, if i am mistaken:)

I was not under this impression, but I did not think the reduce feat cost were worded as abilities, they apparently are. I know from testing Marksman that things like light/heavy attacks were included in abilities. I tested World in Ruin passive for DK's and it does increase the damage of Spawn of Mephala monster set which is a proc. I have made the assumption in the past because of this that abilities included everything and was distinct from skills.

To be fair ZOS is inconsistent with the meanings of tool-tips, but that shouldn't be new to anyone who has played this game for awhile.

silver1surfer69

JAwtunes wrote: »

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Well, Alteration Mastery has „Reduces the cost of all of your abilities by 6%.“ as 5 pc tooltip as well, and yet does reduce dodge roll and break free too...

Yeah people don't seem to get this, everything you do is an ability. Abilites are not exclusive to Spells/Skills. This is how Marksman affects bow light/heavy attacks.

im under the impression that this is not the case. i think an ability is something u need to have slotted. as i said, cost reduction glyph does not work for dodge roll. i tested this. pls proove me wrong, if i am mistaken:)

This is a good discussion and interested to see where it ends.
Yes I agree. Intuitively I also thought an Ability had to be slotted on a skill bar, whereas the other things that have been mentioned are processes or actions that are activated in another way (e.g. pressing sprint, crouch, block, roll dodge etc.). Whenever I see Ability mentioned in a tool tip this is my first thought. So a resource debuff poison should take effect when Abilities are activated only... then I remember we shouldn't necessarily trust a ZOS tooltip and testing is the only way to be sure. I'm on PC EU and happy to hit you with a few cost poisons if you want to test a few things.

at what times are u usually on? i could do some testing now but i assume its too late for u now?

JAwtunes

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

JAwtunes wrote: »

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Well, Alteration Mastery has „Reduces the cost of all of your abilities by 6%.“ as 5 pc tooltip as well, and yet does reduce dodge roll and break free too...

Yeah people don't seem to get this, everything you do is an ability. Abilites are not exclusive to Spells/Skills. This is how Marksman affects bow light/heavy attacks.

im under the impression that this is not the case. i think an ability is something u need to have slotted. as i said, cost reduction glyph does not work for dodge roll. i tested this. pls proove me wrong, if i am mistaken:)

This is a good discussion and interested to see where it ends.
Yes I agree. Intuitively I also thought an Ability had to be slotted on a skill bar, whereas the other things that have been mentioned are processes or actions that are activated in another way (e.g. pressing sprint, crouch, block, roll dodge etc.). Whenever I see Ability mentioned in a tool tip this is my first thought. So a resource debuff poison should take effect when Abilities are activated only... then I remember we shouldn't necessarily trust a ZOS tooltip and testing is the only way to be sure. I'm on PC EU and happy to hit you with a few cost poisons if you want to test a few things.

at what times are u usually on? i could do some testing now but i assume its too late for u now?

Can you please message me in game. My @ name is the same as my name here. To confirm, I play PC EU. Cheers.

Undefwun

First and foremost any and all credibility as an opponent if you use them.

I’ve never been beaten by a player using them. I’ve died in fights where they were used, but that’s not beating someone.

It’s like in F1 racing, if one guy punches a hole in the other guys tank and then claims “I’m the better driver LOLOLOLOL”
Yeah ok.

So many tools at our disposal to fight and this completely takes the fight out of someone.

Very rarely does this add in a positive way to a fight.
1v1 you empty the guys resources. Not a fight. Go shoot deer in your starter zone if you want easy kills.
XvX small scale same as above.
Xv1 you most likely gonna die anyway, but this the only time it “might” be ok, but when if this means you need to have them on all the time just remove them.

silver1surfer69

Undefwun wrote: »

First and foremost any and all credibility as an opponent if you use them.

I’ve never been beaten by a player using them. I’ve died in fights where they were used, but that’s not beating someone.

It’s like in F1 racing, if one guy punches a hole in the other guys tank and then claims “I’m the better driver LOLOLOLOL”
Yeah ok.

So many tools at our disposal to fight and this completely takes the fight out of someone.

Very rarely does this add in a positive way to a fight.
1v1 you empty the guys resources. Not a fight. Go shoot deer in your starter zone if you want easy kills.
XvX small scale same as above.
Xv1 you most likely gonna die anyway, but this the only time it “might” be ok, but when if this means you need to have them on all the time just remove them.

i see the kind of logic in this, but im past this point for years, thats at least my oppinion. im a stand and fight guy as well. But there are imho so many things in this game where this applies. EG invisibility by all sources including NB. So whats the argumentation when someone goes invisibilbe and then wins? So im at this point and that for a long time now, use what the game offers u. Thats like playing a ball game like soccer. When its in the rules u can use it. Thats like i dont use the penalty kick because there is only the goal keeper to defend. Or we won cause of penalty kick, thats not really winning. If anybody would stand and fight and the game would be balanced i would completely be happy and no one would need to look and compare stronger or weaker methods in this game.

silver1surfer69

JAwtunes wrote: »

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

JAwtunes wrote: »

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Well, Alteration Mastery has „Reduces the cost of all of your abilities by 6%.“ as 5 pc tooltip as well, and yet does reduce dodge roll and break free too...

Yeah people don't seem to get this, everything you do is an ability. Abilites are not exclusive to Spells/Skills. This is how Marksman affects bow light/heavy attacks.

im under the impression that this is not the case. i think an ability is something u need to have slotted. as i said, cost reduction glyph does not work for dodge roll. i tested this. pls proove me wrong, if i am mistaken:)

This is a good discussion and interested to see where it ends.
Yes I agree. Intuitively I also thought an Ability had to be slotted on a skill bar, whereas the other things that have been mentioned are processes or actions that are activated in another way (e.g. pressing sprint, crouch, block, roll dodge etc.). Whenever I see Ability mentioned in a tool tip this is my first thought. So a resource debuff poison should take effect when Abilities are activated only... then I remember we shouldn't necessarily trust a ZOS tooltip and testing is the only way to be sure. I'm on PC EU and happy to hit you with a few cost poisons if you want to test a few things.

at what times are u usually on? i could do some testing now but i assume its too late for u now?

Can you please message me in game. My @ name is the same as my name here. To confirm, I play PC EU. Cheers.

tried to send u friendlist invite but the game doesnt show ur name. I tried JAwtunes. Im PC EU as well:)