Vicious Ophidian 1h weapons

pdebie64b16_ESO

Currently using VO + Automaton on my stam Sorc, Instead of VO daggers i use Automaton daggers. They can be found in Darkshade Caverns, Darkshade I Is easy to solo and the daggers can be dropped by the final boss, but i found mine in treasure chests.

RABIDxWOLVERINE

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

One of the classic mistakes that people make is to spend way too much time on their front bar. They cast their back bar dots, swap to their front bar, and dont swap back until long after their DOTs have stopped ticking. The beautiful thing about stam is that you really dont need any fancy buff trackers. Every thing is a big circle and there are no spam skills (like force pulse) to worry about. Let's take alcasts stated rotation and call it meta for the time being (it's certainly close).

Copied from his website:
Back Bar: Rearming Trap > Light Attack > Endless Hail > Light Attack > Poison Injection > Light Attack > Razor Caltrops > Weapon Swap

Front Bar: Heavy Attack > Noxious Breath > Heavy Attack > Venomous Claw > Heavy Attack > Rending Slashes > Heavy Attack Deadly Cloak > Weapon Swap > restart rotation

Sounds complicated, but its really not. Think of your back bar as 5 skills and your front bar as 5 skills. The fifth skill on your back bar is molten armaments and on your front bar its Flames of Oblivon (not mentioned in the rotation). These are the only two that will be cast outside of your normal rotation, so do yourself a favor and ignore them for the time being (you will need to use weapon power potions on cooldown, but you should do that anyway). With the remaining 8 skills, you are going to cast them all once and repeat. You should never be lost as to what to do because the rotation simply repeats itself. A very helpful trick is to slot your skills in the right order on your bars.

So if you back bar is 1. Trap, 2 Hail, 3 PI, 4 Caltrops, and your front bar is 1. Noxious, 2. Claw, 3. Slashes, 4 Cloak. Then, put trap and breath, hail and claw, PI and Slashes, and Caltrops and Cloak in the same spots on your bars. Then whether you are on your back bar or your front bar, its just 1, 2, 3, 4. Dont think of the skill, think of the order. Like counting music, 1234 swap 1234 swap 1234 Swap and so on.

As to your back bar, you want to use light attacks with each skill. This is not that important, but it does help the dps a bit. I would definitely turn the ground AOE autocast to to on, so caltrops and hail just need a button press. Caltrops also has a very long cast time (why we cast it last), so be sure to practice swap canceling it. Basically once you start the cast, you can hit bar swap earlier than you might think. It's just something you will need to play with.

As to your front bar, this is just a heavy attack weave which is the easiest weave their is. You can literally hold down your Heavy Attack button the entire time you are on your front bar without letting it go. Once you see your hands go back, press the 1 button (you can actually spam it a few times), and the skill will fire as soon as the heavy attack hits. Then keep your finger on the HA button, once you see your arms go back again, press button 2, and so on and so forth. Once you hit button 4 (always in order), press your swap button once you see the beginning of the skill animation and repeat.

Once you can do that with your eyes closed, you can look to add 4 things that are on independent cooldowns. Potions, Ultimates, Molten Armaments, and Flames of Oblivion, should be cast independently. Potions and ultiamtes are easy, they are very long to build, and its obvious when they are ready. MA and FOO are a little trickier, but like I said, ignore them for the time being. You could do something like slotting vigor on the back bar and steal tornado on the front bar. Master the basic rotation, then look to add the proverbial icing to the cake.

@Oreyn_Bearclaw
This is pretty much what I am working on rotation wise the only difference is, I have vigor instead of trap when solo, in trials I take vigor out and put trap on for a little boost and instead of noxious breath I use shrouded daggers. I was thinking about swapping MA out for Noxious Breath but am still debating. I think its a bit harder on console because your buttons aren't lined up like 1234, but I'm working at making it muscle memory. One of the best things I did was set it up to where I'm going in sequence, X, Y, B, LB, RB. Its challenging but with time I'm sure I will improve.

What are your opinions on the changes I have made from alcasts build (which by the way is the build that I am running).

Currently I think its like this (for reference: DW Front bar/Bow back bar)

X-claws/caltrops
Y-slashes/poison inject
B-daggers/hail
LB-cloak/FOO
RB-Vigor or trap/MA

I feel like after this discussion I'm going to be revisting these binds.

Larsay

RABIDxWOLVERINE wrote: »

I run 5x TFS 4/5x Hundings and 2 pc monster set (Selenes currently) on my Stam DK and it seems to work better than anything else Ive tried.

I went off Alcast's Venom build and the way he explains it for trials and dungeons TFS/Hundings/Velidreth are BiS for Stam DK. I have more confidence in his opinion than any of these opinions but its probably largely class based.

He also has a video that tells you not to use TFS in trials.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47fuSQGWX7A

So if your not going to listen to forum advice at least watch all of his videos.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

RABIDxWOLVERINE wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

One of the classic mistakes that people make is to spend way too much time on their front bar. They cast their back bar dots, swap to their front bar, and dont swap back until long after their DOTs have stopped ticking. The beautiful thing about stam is that you really dont need any fancy buff trackers. Every thing is a big circle and there are no spam skills (like force pulse) to worry about. Let's take alcasts stated rotation and call it meta for the time being (it's certainly close).

Copied from his website:
Back Bar: Rearming Trap > Light Attack > Endless Hail > Light Attack > Poison Injection > Light Attack > Razor Caltrops > Weapon Swap

Front Bar: Heavy Attack > Noxious Breath > Heavy Attack > Venomous Claw > Heavy Attack > Rending Slashes > Heavy Attack Deadly Cloak > Weapon Swap > restart rotation

Sounds complicated, but its really not. Think of your back bar as 5 skills and your front bar as 5 skills. The fifth skill on your back bar is molten armaments and on your front bar its Flames of Oblivon (not mentioned in the rotation). These are the only two that will be cast outside of your normal rotation, so do yourself a favor and ignore them for the time being (you will need to use weapon power potions on cooldown, but you should do that anyway). With the remaining 8 skills, you are going to cast them all once and repeat. You should never be lost as to what to do because the rotation simply repeats itself. A very helpful trick is to slot your skills in the right order on your bars.

So if you back bar is 1. Trap, 2 Hail, 3 PI, 4 Caltrops, and your front bar is 1. Noxious, 2. Claw, 3. Slashes, 4 Cloak. Then, put trap and breath, hail and claw, PI and Slashes, and Caltrops and Cloak in the same spots on your bars. Then whether you are on your back bar or your front bar, its just 1, 2, 3, 4. Dont think of the skill, think of the order. Like counting music, 1234 swap 1234 swap 1234 Swap and so on.

As to your back bar, you want to use light attacks with each skill. This is not that important, but it does help the dps a bit. I would definitely turn the ground AOE autocast to to on, so caltrops and hail just need a button press. Caltrops also has a very long cast time (why we cast it last), so be sure to practice swap canceling it. Basically once you start the cast, you can hit bar swap earlier than you might think. It's just something you will need to play with.

As to your front bar, this is just a heavy attack weave which is the easiest weave their is. You can literally hold down your Heavy Attack button the entire time you are on your front bar without letting it go. Once you see your hands go back, press the 1 button (you can actually spam it a few times), and the skill will fire as soon as the heavy attack hits. Then keep your finger on the HA button, once you see your arms go back again, press button 2, and so on and so forth. Once you hit button 4 (always in order), press your swap button once you see the beginning of the skill animation and repeat.

Once you can do that with your eyes closed, you can look to add 4 things that are on independent cooldowns. Potions, Ultimates, Molten Armaments, and Flames of Oblivion, should be cast independently. Potions and ultiamtes are easy, they are very long to build, and its obvious when they are ready. MA and FOO are a little trickier, but like I said, ignore them for the time being. You could do something like slotting vigor on the back bar and steal tornado on the front bar. Master the basic rotation, then look to add the proverbial icing to the cake.

@Oreyn_Bearclaw
This is pretty much what I am working on rotation wise the only difference is, I have vigor instead of trap when solo, in trials I take vigor out and put trap on for a little boost and instead of noxious breath I use shrouded daggers. I was thinking about swapping MA out for Noxious Breath but am still debating. I think its a bit harder on console because your buttons aren't lined up like 1234, but I'm working at making it muscle memory. One of the best things I did was set it up to where I'm going in sequence, X, Y, B, LB, RB. Its challenging but with time I'm sure I will improve.

What are your opinions on the changes I have made from alcasts build (which by the way is the build that I am running).

Currently I think its like this (for reference: DW Front bar/Bow back bar)

X-claws/caltrops
Y-slashes/poison inject
B-daggers/hail
LB-cloak/FOO
RB-Vigor or trap/MA

I feel like after this discussion I'm going to be revisting these binds.

If you are going to take a meta build and change it, you have to ask yourself what it is accomplishing. Inevitably you will lose DPS when you change the meta. I usually support two types of changes for a DPS loss, heals and simplicity of rotation. Finding room for vigor is obvious, you want heals. So the question is, what do you drop. I believe the three most expendable skills from the alcast build are FOO, Noxious breath and MA.

MA is giving less than 2k, and FOO is giving closer to 3k in a raid. While FOO is going to list higher on your parse than trap, remember, we dont slot trap for its DOT damage. We slot it for the minor force, which buffs all our crit damage. I would not drop trap if you can avoid it. Minor Force is pretty darn important.

As to shrouded daggers, what are they doing for you? The reason some sorcs use them is that they dont have as many skills in their rotation, so they need a spammable to fill the time. That is not the case with DKs. If anything, I would look to add steel tornado for AOE pulls before adding shrouded daggers on a DK. Only argument for daggers I can think of is for the major brutality, but again, thats what potions are for.

Some people do argue that Noxious breath is not worth the spot. On a dummy or when solo (VMA), its great because you get major breach, but a tank will give you that in a group. The DOT damage is not terribly impressive. It is definitely a skill you could consider dropping, but again, ask yourself why. If you are comfortable with your rotation, and dont mind doing MA and FOO on cooldown, Breath might be your best skill to drop for vigor. If you want to keep your rotation as simple as possible, I would probably drop MA for vigor. If looking for a skill to drop for an AOE spammable, Rending Slashes is probably your best bet as its your weakest single target DOT on your DW bar.

sudaki_eso

Whats the generall opinion of briarheart instead of hundings? Its harder to get together but i am thinking about swapping those two sets...

Hibiki54

When I am on my Stamina Sorceress, I run Vicious Serpent as my Jewelry and Weapons on Dual Wield front bar. The reason why I do this is because I like to have some efficiency as I move from mob to mob. I really do not care about the stamina cost reduction on my bow bar because I'm also a Redguard so I'm getting resources back no matter what. I also use a heavy attack rotation, so there are times when I do use Sunderflame to help out the raid or wear Night Mother's Gaze, but not both. The reason why I do not use both is mainly due to my own personal preference of having sets organized as body (only) and jewelry/weapon (only) sets.

I wear Twice Fang Snake because I do not want to depend on random people in dungeons or PUG trials to coordinate. It is easier to be selfish in those cases.

RABIDxWOLVERINE

Larsay wrote: »

RABIDxWOLVERINE wrote: »

I run 5x TFS 4/5x Hundings and 2 pc monster set (Selenes currently) on my Stam DK and it seems to work better than anything else Ive tried.

I went off Alcast's Venom build and the way he explains it for trials and dungeons TFS/Hundings/Velidreth are BiS for Stam DK. I have more confidence in his opinion than any of these opinions but its probably largely class based.

He also has a video that tells you not to use TFS in trials.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47fuSQGWX7A

So if your not going to listen to forum advice at least watch all of his videos.

I am listening to forum advice. Maybe if your going to comment you should read all the posts, and Ill try to watch all his videos. Unfortunately I don't have time to do this all the time because of work and kids.

And to clarify if you go to the build page it shows BiS for trials and dungeons and lists TFS.
https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-dragonknight-build-pve/
look under trials and dungeon setup, under gear setup 1.

RABIDxWOLVERINE

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If you are going to take a meta build and change it, you have to ask yourself what it is accomplishing. Inevitably you will lose DPS when you change the meta. I usually support two types of changes for a DPS loss, heals and simplicity of rotation. Finding room for vigor is obvious, you want heals. So the question is, what do you drop. I believe the three most expendable skills from the alcast build are FOO, Noxious breath and MA.

MA is giving less than 2k, and FOO is giving closer to 3k in a raid. While FOO is going to list higher on your parse than trap, remember, we dont slot trap for its DOT damage. We slot it for the minor force, which buffs all our crit damage. I would not drop trap if you can avoid it. Minor Force is pretty darn important.

As to shrouded daggers, what are they doing for you? The reason some sorcs use them is that they dont have as many skills in their rotation, so they need a spammable to fill the time. That is not the case with DKs. If anything, I would look to add steel tornado for AOE pulls before adding shrouded daggers on a DK. Only argument for daggers I can think of is for the major brutality, but again, thats what potions are for.

Some people do argue that Noxious breath is not worth the spot. On a dummy or when solo (VMA), its great because you get major breach, but a tank will give you that in a group. The DOT damage is not terribly impressive. It is definitely a skill you could consider dropping, but again, ask yourself why. If you are comfortable with your rotation, and dont mind doing MA and FOO on cooldown, Breath might be your best skill to drop for vigor. If you want to keep your rotation as simple as possible, I would probably drop MA for vigor. If looking for a skill to drop for an AOE spammable, Rending Slashes is probably your best bet as its your weakest single target DOT on your DW bar.

The reason I use daggers atm is because I don't have the Veli head piece so I am using selenes. By using daggers vs noxious breath I am adding another skill that can proc my selene set. Once I get my veli head which will hopefully be this weekend I will probably play around with it again. Based of what you said about traps I think I'm going to swap out MA for Vigor and restore trap to my bar.

OutLaw_Nynx

I have more confidence in his opinion than any of these opinions but its probably largely class based.

Seems like you don’t care about what people are trying to help you with. @Oreyn_Bearclaw has helped me a great deal by me swapping the warrior to the lover for the test dummy.

Don’t be such a jerk. All people are doing is trying to help you. I might be reading this all wrong but you come off as if the advice given here isn’t good enough.

RABIDxWOLVERINE

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

I have more confidence in his opinion than any of these opinions but its probably largely class based.

Seems like you don’t care about what people are trying to help you with. @Oreyn_Bearclaw has helped me a great deal by me swapping the warrior to the lover for the test dummy.

Don’t be such a jerk. All people are doing is trying to help you.

@OutLaw_Nynx
I think you are all taking that comment way out of context. That's like the 3rd comment I was obviously wrong and have said so. I was going off the Venom build video before I saw the stamina optimization video. I'm not being a jerk I was just saying I have more confidence in what he said in that video than what the 3 comments before me said. Its clearly all situational. I have been discussing this for days now with @Oreyn_Bearclaw and have not been a jerk at all. I'm very thankful for all that I have learned from this thread so far and look to learn much more.

OutLaw_Nynx

RABIDxWOLVERINE wrote: »

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

I have more confidence in his opinion than any of these opinions but its probably largely class based.

Seems like you don’t care about what people are trying to help you with. @Oreyn_Bearclaw has helped me a great deal by me swapping the warrior to the lover for the test dummy.

Don’t be such a jerk. All people are doing is trying to help you.

@OutLaw_Nynx
I think you are all taking that comment way out of context. That's like the 3rd comment I was obviously wrong and have said so. I was going off the Venom build video before I saw the stamina optimization video. I'm not being a jerk I was just saying I have more confidence in what he said in that video than what the 3 comments before me said. Its clearly all situational. I have been discussing this for days now with @Oreyn_Bearclaw and have not been a jerk at all. I'm very thankful for all that I have learned from this thread so far and look to learn much more.

Ah okay. I do apologise then.

Danksta

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

I have more confidence in his opinion than any of these opinions but its probably largely class based.

Seems like you don’t care about what people are trying to help you with. @Oreyn_Bearclaw has helped me a great deal by me swapping the warrior to the lover for the test dummy.

Don’t be such a jerk. All people are doing is trying to help you. I might be reading this all wrong but you come off as if the advice given here isn’t good enough.

He/she has been accepting and grateful for the advice given. Just wasn't willing to blindly follow a stranger's advice, you can't blame someone for that.

RABIDxWOLVERINE

@OutLaw_Nynx No problem I reread it and I see how it can be taken that way. I should have quoted the guy I was responding too and I was like the 8th comment not 3rd lol but one guy said TFS is useless and I was basically saying based off what I saw in the Venom video I'm going to take alcasts opinion over his because I have more confidence in it. That's on me I have learned my lesson, when trying to respond to a particular post QUOTE it lol. I can see how it was perceived as being a jerk now and I apologize that was definitely not my intention. I still consider myself a noob even after two+ years and like you said @Oreyn_Bearclaw has taught me a ton in this one thread and has set my a** straight because I was clearly wrong. I'm a big enough of a man to admit when I am wrong and I definitely was. My apologize to anyone who may have misunderstood my not so clearly put point.

Danksta wrote: »

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

I have more confidence in his opinion than any of these opinions but its probably largely class based.

Seems like you don’t care about what people are trying to help you with. @Oreyn_Bearclaw has helped me a great deal by me swapping the warrior to the lover for the test dummy.

Don’t be such a jerk. All people are doing is trying to help you. I might be reading this all wrong but you come off as if the advice given here isn’t good enough.

He/she has been accepting and grateful for the advice given. Just wasn't willing to blindly follow a stranger's advice, you can't blame someone for that.

Exactly I just didn't word it as elegantly as @danksta just did lol. I'm not a word smith and I'm at work so I'm always rushing through my thoughts and have a tendency to come off in a way I hadn't intended. Like I said though I did reread that and can see how I came off as a d*** so I edited that out to save myself future a** reaming lol.

Thanks again to everyone who has helped me throughout this thread

OutLaw_Nynx

Hey it’s easy to misread things on the internet. This thread has also been helpful for me as well.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

I have more confidence in his opinion than any of these opinions but its probably largely class based.

Seems like you don’t care about what people are trying to help you with. @Oreyn_Bearclaw has helped me a great deal by me swapping the warrior to the lover for the test dummy.

Don’t be such a jerk. All people are doing is trying to help you. I might be reading this all wrong but you come off as if the advice given here isn’t good enough.

For the Record, I use Alcast's site as a valuable resource. If you had asked me a year ago, I would have said that Deltia is one of the best resources for new players, and Alcast was one of the best resources for Meta end game PVE content. Since Deltia left, I believe there has been a noticeable shift of Alcast's target audience. His builds are now much more approachable for the average player, which makes sense. It's a bigger audience. Most of his builds seem to have some sacrifices made to simplify the meta to some degree. For example, look at his mNB build. It is essentially meta, but his rotation is absolutely a dumbed-down version of what the best NBs like LZH actually run. Again, I am not knocking Alcast, I think he is one of the best players in the game, and you could do a lot worse than copying his builds to the letter. You should just take it in context, that is all. I often start with an alcast build, then look at youtube videos of what the best players do in actual content (which is sometimes live footage of Alcast), and try to find a sweet spot in the middle.

sudaki_eso wrote: »

Whats the generall opinion of briarheart instead of hundings? Its harder to get together but i am thinking about swapping those two sets...

If you have the weapons in perfect traits, knock yourself out. The damage is essentially a wash, but briarheart just gives you a small heal. If you dont have the perfect weapons, use hundings.

RABIDxWOLVERINE wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If you are going to take a meta build and change it, you have to ask yourself what it is accomplishing. Inevitably you will lose DPS when you change the meta. I usually support two types of changes for a DPS loss, heals and simplicity of rotation. Finding room for vigor is obvious, you want heals. So the question is, what do you drop. I believe the three most expendable skills from the alcast build are FOO, Noxious breath and MA.

MA is giving less than 2k, and FOO is giving closer to 3k in a raid. While FOO is going to list higher on your parse than trap, remember, we dont slot trap for its DOT damage. We slot it for the minor force, which buffs all our crit damage. I would not drop trap if you can avoid it. Minor Force is pretty darn important.

As to shrouded daggers, what are they doing for you? The reason some sorcs use them is that they dont have as many skills in their rotation, so they need a spammable to fill the time. That is not the case with DKs. If anything, I would look to add steel tornado for AOE pulls before adding shrouded daggers on a DK. Only argument for daggers I can think of is for the major brutality, but again, thats what potions are for.

Some people do argue that Noxious breath is not worth the spot. On a dummy or when solo (VMA), its great because you get major breach, but a tank will give you that in a group. The DOT damage is not terribly impressive. It is definitely a skill you could consider dropping, but again, ask yourself why. If you are comfortable with your rotation, and dont mind doing MA and FOO on cooldown, Breath might be your best skill to drop for vigor. If you want to keep your rotation as simple as possible, I would probably drop MA for vigor. If looking for a skill to drop for an AOE spammable, Rending Slashes is probably your best bet as its your weakest single target DOT on your DW bar.

The reason I use daggers atm is because I don't have the Veli head piece so I am using selenes. By using daggers vs noxious breath I am adding another skill that can proc my selene set. Once I get my veli head which will hopefully be this weekend I will probably play around with it again. Based of what you said about traps I think I'm going to swap out MA for Vigor and restore trap to my bar.

Are you 100% sure Shrouded daggers procs selenes? I have honestly not tested it, but selens procs on melee damage and shrouded daggers is a ranged skill. If if it does, I am not totally persuaded by that argument, but if you like daggers go nuts. I actually run them in VMOL for AOE fights. The splash damage is pretty solid and it allows you to avoid one shots by that darn sword and board guy. Haha

RABIDxWOLVERINE

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

I have more confidence in his opinion than any of these opinions but its probably largely class based.

Seems like you don’t care about what people are trying to help you with. @Oreyn_Bearclaw has helped me a great deal by me swapping the warrior to the lover for the test dummy.

Don’t be such a jerk. All people are doing is trying to help you. I might be reading this all wrong but you come off as if the advice given here isn’t good enough.

For the Record, I use Alcast's site as a valuable resource. If you had asked me a year ago, I would have said that Deltia is one of the best resources for new players, and Alcast was one of the best resources for Meta end game PVE content. Since Deltia left, I believe there has been a noticeable shift of Alcast's target audience. His builds are now much more approachable for the average player, which makes sense. It's a bigger audience. Most of his builds seem to have some sacrifices made to simplify the meta to some degree. For example, look at his mNB build. It is essentially meta, but his rotation is absolutely a dumbed-down version of what the best NBs like LZH actually run. Again, I am not knocking Alcast, I think he is one of the best players in the game, and you could do a lot worse than copying his builds to the letter. You should just take it in context, that is all. I often start with an alcast build, then look at youtube videos of what the best players do in actual content (which is sometimes live footage of Alcast), and try to find a sweet spot in the middle.

sudaki_eso wrote: »

Whats the generall opinion of briarheart instead of hundings? Its harder to get together but i am thinking about swapping those two sets...

If you have the weapons in perfect traits, knock yourself out. The damage is essentially a wash, but briarheart just gives you a small heal. If you dont have the perfect weapons, use hundings.

RABIDxWOLVERINE wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If you are going to take a meta build and change it, you have to ask yourself what it is accomplishing. Inevitably you will lose DPS when you change the meta. I usually support two types of changes for a DPS loss, heals and simplicity of rotation. Finding room for vigor is obvious, you want heals. So the question is, what do you drop. I believe the three most expendable skills from the alcast build are FOO, Noxious breath and MA.

MA is giving less than 2k, and FOO is giving closer to 3k in a raid. While FOO is going to list higher on your parse than trap, remember, we dont slot trap for its DOT damage. We slot it for the minor force, which buffs all our crit damage. I would not drop trap if you can avoid it. Minor Force is pretty darn important.

As to shrouded daggers, what are they doing for you? The reason some sorcs use them is that they dont have as many skills in their rotation, so they need a spammable to fill the time. That is not the case with DKs. If anything, I would look to add steel tornado for AOE pulls before adding shrouded daggers on a DK. Only argument for daggers I can think of is for the major brutality, but again, thats what potions are for.

Some people do argue that Noxious breath is not worth the spot. On a dummy or when solo (VMA), its great because you get major breach, but a tank will give you that in a group. The DOT damage is not terribly impressive. It is definitely a skill you could consider dropping, but again, ask yourself why. If you are comfortable with your rotation, and dont mind doing MA and FOO on cooldown, Breath might be your best skill to drop for vigor. If you want to keep your rotation as simple as possible, I would probably drop MA for vigor. If looking for a skill to drop for an AOE spammable, Rending Slashes is probably your best bet as its your weakest single target DOT on your DW bar.

The reason I use daggers atm is because I don't have the Veli head piece so I am using selenes. By using daggers vs noxious breath I am adding another skill that can proc my selene set. Once I get my veli head which will hopefully be this weekend I will probably play around with it again. Based of what you said about traps I think I'm going to swap out MA for Vigor and restore trap to my bar.

Are you 100% sure Shrouded daggers procs selenes? I have honestly not tested it, but selens procs on melee damage and shrouded daggers is a ranged skill. If if it does, I am not totally persuaded by that argument, but if you like daggers go nuts. I actually run them in VMOL for AOE fights. The splash damage is pretty solid and it allows you to avoid one shots by that darn sword and board guy. Haha

I'm not 100% sure that it procs but in combat it seems to make it proc. Maybe I'm wrong it definitely wouldn't be the first time. Although it is a ranged skill per se I believe it does melee damage so it allows selenes to proc. I also think that ranged attacks count as melee damage because I swear using my bow and doing LA sometimes makes selenes proc as well. like I said I'm not 100% sure, as I never have time to test anything really. If I'm able to get on I usually eat up my time questing or doing dungeons trying to grind out as much as I can while I have time to play. I'm trying to set aside sometime this weekend or while I'm off for thanksgiving to work on my rotation and while I'm doing that I will try to test out what all can make selenes proc. If just kinda always assumed ranged counts as melee but you know what they say about assumptions... They are the mother of all F ups.

I also like the damage I'm able to do with daggers. Ive had my daggers hit for over 20k before but it seems to average around 10-15k. I think the noxious breath animation kinda keeps me away as well. Ill have to play around with it and see what works best though. This discussion has really sparked my interest in testing some of this as well as improving my DPS in the process.

Not sure how relevant it is but I have been able to hit 6325 weapon damage with my build currently in a dungeon run with randoms so I feel like I am definitely making progress from where I started.

Id really like to do vet dungeons and vet trials but I'm not sure if my skill level is where it needs to be to do the harder end game stuff. For instance Ive tried vMA once or twice but I bombed so hard that Ive never went back. With this new drive to get better though Id like to give it a shot during this event and see if I have progressed any. I kinda always accepted that Id be a C level player but now that ive done most of the questing in the game I'm looking for more of a challenge and I think I need to improve before I start trying harder content. Ive found an awesome trial/dungeon guild that's very friendly to players like me and have been learning a ton from them. Now I think I need to improve my skills so that I can continue to do harder content and just find a new level to enjoy the game at.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

RABIDxWOLVERINE wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

I have more confidence in his opinion than any of these opinions but its probably largely class based.

Seems like you don’t care about what people are trying to help you with. @Oreyn_Bearclaw has helped me a great deal by me swapping the warrior to the lover for the test dummy.

Don’t be such a jerk. All people are doing is trying to help you. I might be reading this all wrong but you come off as if the advice given here isn’t good enough.

For the Record, I use Alcast's site as a valuable resource. If you had asked me a year ago, I would have said that Deltia is one of the best resources for new players, and Alcast was one of the best resources for Meta end game PVE content. Since Deltia left, I believe there has been a noticeable shift of Alcast's target audience. His builds are now much more approachable for the average player, which makes sense. It's a bigger audience. Most of his builds seem to have some sacrifices made to simplify the meta to some degree. For example, look at his mNB build. It is essentially meta, but his rotation is absolutely a dumbed-down version of what the best NBs like LZH actually run. Again, I am not knocking Alcast, I think he is one of the best players in the game, and you could do a lot worse than copying his builds to the letter. You should just take it in context, that is all. I often start with an alcast build, then look at youtube videos of what the best players do in actual content (which is sometimes live footage of Alcast), and try to find a sweet spot in the middle.

sudaki_eso wrote: »

Whats the generall opinion of briarheart instead of hundings? Its harder to get together but i am thinking about swapping those two sets...

If you have the weapons in perfect traits, knock yourself out. The damage is essentially a wash, but briarheart just gives you a small heal. If you dont have the perfect weapons, use hundings.

RABIDxWOLVERINE wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If you are going to take a meta build and change it, you have to ask yourself what it is accomplishing. Inevitably you will lose DPS when you change the meta. I usually support two types of changes for a DPS loss, heals and simplicity of rotation. Finding room for vigor is obvious, you want heals. So the question is, what do you drop. I believe the three most expendable skills from the alcast build are FOO, Noxious breath and MA.

MA is giving less than 2k, and FOO is giving closer to 3k in a raid. While FOO is going to list higher on your parse than trap, remember, we dont slot trap for its DOT damage. We slot it for the minor force, which buffs all our crit damage. I would not drop trap if you can avoid it. Minor Force is pretty darn important.

As to shrouded daggers, what are they doing for you? The reason some sorcs use them is that they dont have as many skills in their rotation, so they need a spammable to fill the time. That is not the case with DKs. If anything, I would look to add steel tornado for AOE pulls before adding shrouded daggers on a DK. Only argument for daggers I can think of is for the major brutality, but again, thats what potions are for.

Some people do argue that Noxious breath is not worth the spot. On a dummy or when solo (VMA), its great because you get major breach, but a tank will give you that in a group. The DOT damage is not terribly impressive. It is definitely a skill you could consider dropping, but again, ask yourself why. If you are comfortable with your rotation, and dont mind doing MA and FOO on cooldown, Breath might be your best skill to drop for vigor. If you want to keep your rotation as simple as possible, I would probably drop MA for vigor. If looking for a skill to drop for an AOE spammable, Rending Slashes is probably your best bet as its your weakest single target DOT on your DW bar.

The reason I use daggers atm is because I don't have the Veli head piece so I am using selenes. By using daggers vs noxious breath I am adding another skill that can proc my selene set. Once I get my veli head which will hopefully be this weekend I will probably play around with it again. Based of what you said about traps I think I'm going to swap out MA for Vigor and restore trap to my bar.

Are you 100% sure Shrouded daggers procs selenes? I have honestly not tested it, but selens procs on melee damage and shrouded daggers is a ranged skill. If if it does, I am not totally persuaded by that argument, but if you like daggers go nuts. I actually run them in VMOL for AOE fights. The splash damage is pretty solid and it allows you to avoid one shots by that darn sword and board guy. Haha

I'm not 100% sure that it procs but in combat it seems to make it proc. Maybe I'm wrong it definitely wouldn't be the first time. Although it is a ranged skill per se I believe it does melee damage so it allows selenes to proc. I also think that ranged attacks count as melee damage because I swear using my bow and doing LA sometimes makes selenes proc as well. like I said I'm not 100% sure, as I never have time to test anything really. If I'm able to get on I usually eat up my time questing or doing dungeons trying to grind out as much as I can while I have time to play. I'm trying to set aside sometime this weekend or while I'm off for thanksgiving to work on my rotation and while I'm doing that I will try to test out what all can make selenes proc. If just kinda always assumed ranged counts as melee but you know what they say about assumptions... They are the mother of all F ups.

I also like the damage I'm able to do with daggers. Ive had my daggers hit for over 20k before but it seems to average around 10-15k. I think the noxious breath animation kinda keeps me away as well. Ill have to play around with it and see what works best though. This discussion has really sparked my interest in testing some of this as well as improving my DPS in the process.

Not sure how relevant it is but I have been able to hit 6325 weapon damage with my build currently in a dungeon run with randoms so I feel like I am definitely making progress from where I started.

Id really like to do vet dungeons and vet trials but I'm not sure if my skill level is where it needs to be to do the harder end game stuff. For instance Ive tried vMA once or twice but I bombed so hard that Ive never went back. With this new drive to get better though Id like to give it a shot during this event and see if I have progressed any. I kinda always accepted that Id be a C level player but now that ive done most of the questing in the game I'm looking for more of a challenge and I think I need to improve before I start trying harder content. Ive found an awesome trial/dungeon guild that's very friendly to players like me and have been learning a ton from them. Now I think I need to improve my skills so that I can continue to do harder content and just find a new level to enjoy the game at.

Well, it is ZOS. Tooltips definitely arent perfect. Easy way to test, go to a dummy, spam daggers (and nothing else) see if selenes goes off. Knowing ZOS, id give it 50/50 odds.

Dont be afraid of vet dungeons, just use a little common sense, like dont start with Vet COS. Pick the vet version of dungeons you are familiar with to start. As to Vet Trials, they can actually be a little easier to tackle arguably if your group is solid. Most craglorn dungeons can be done with 9-10 people, and there is nothing wrong with a bit of a carry your first time or two. Make sure you can consistently pull 25k DPS on a dummy before going for vet craglorn trials, and probably closer to 30 for the other ones.

VMA is a different animal entirely. I would not step foot in their for the first time on a stamina toon without vicious ophidian gear. I also highly recommend a first play through on a magic Sorc or magic NB, but you wouldnt be the first person to dive straight in on stam. It is just a lot less forgiving without a shield. Not to derail the thread too much, but check out VMA guides, make sure you are stocked with potions and good gear, and take it slow. Give yourself the goal of clearing one or two stages at a time. Dont play burnt out or upset, and always look at your death recap. You have to know what's killing you if you want to adapt. On your first clear, grab every darn sigil you see.

RABIDxWOLVERINE

@Oreyn_Bearclaw Thank you for the encouragement and the advice. I'm definitely going to digest this along with doing some dummy test and watching more youtube videos to see how I can improve further. I feel like you have set me on the right path to becoming a better player. Ill probably never be a top player but that's not my goal. I just want to be able to play and have fun without worrying about being blasted with "you suck" or "you aren't very good at DPS" or all the other horror stories I hear about how people can act sometimes. I think that's what has made me nervous about doing the harder end game stuff.

But again I thank you for your insight and advice. I greatly appreciate you taking the time to help me and all the others who will find this thread useful and interesting.

OutLaw_Nynx

I book marked it!

krachall

This is a great thread for loads of reasons. The gear advice and analysis is fantastic and the comments on rotations have already helped me a ton.

I'm running Hundings/VO/Velidreth and still can't break through that 22k mark on the target skeleton but I'm seeing the number creep up with every practice sessions.

Thanks again all!

Vapirko

krachall wrote: »

This is a great thread for loads of reasons. The gear advice and analysis is fantastic and the comments on rotations have already helped me a ton.

I'm running Hundings/VO/Velidreth and still can't break through that 22k mark on the target skeleton but I'm seeing the number creep up with every practice sessions.

Thanks again all!

Do you have enough penetration? Even using blue spriggan jewlery with hundings and veli I can hit 27k on a stam DK with 300+ ping. No gold weapons and no vma bow. 25k should be easy. In this case it’s not gear but rotation. A vMA bow is the one piece of difficult to get gear that will significantly boost your dps. I follow alcasts stam DK rotation.

krachall

Vapirko wrote: »

krachall wrote: »

This is a great thread for loads of reasons. The gear advice and analysis is fantastic and the comments on rotations have already helped me a ton.

I'm running Hundings/VO/Velidreth and still can't break through that 22k mark on the target skeleton but I'm seeing the number creep up with every practice sessions.

Thanks again all!

Do you have enough penetration? Even using blue spriggan jewlery with hundings and veli I can hit 27k on a stam DK with 300+ ping. No gold weapons and no vma bow. 25k should be easy. In this case it’s not gear but rotation. A vMA bow is the one piece of difficult to get gear that will significantly boost your dps. I follow alcasts stam DK rotation.

I tried Hundings+Spriggans and didn't see much of an improvement.

I'm using Alcast's Stamblade rotation, but with Path of Darkness instead of Caltrops (don't have Caltrops yet). So my rotation is:

Endless Hail > LA > Path > LA > Poison Injection > LA > Rearming Trap > Weapon Swap
Surprise Attack > HA > Rending Slashes > HA > Surprise Attack > HA > Surprise Attack > repeat

Keeping Relentless Focus up and hitting Assassin's Sourge when I remember to

Starting to get a bit frustrating that I can't push past 22k. I assume it's my weaving and screwing up the rotation but I'm SO far from 25k and progressing so slowly that it's getting frustrating.

Insandros

Denyiir wrote: »

RNGesus didn't bless me with VO daggers yet, but I managed to get sword/mace with good traits, so:

Which would be better option TFS + Hunding (with daggers), or TFS + VO (sword/mace) ?

If you own these, jsut try them yourself and see what is better for you. I personaly now run VO+Sunder, difference between trial and 4 mens pug or even when doing 4mens with friends, including vDSA, i know i don't reach cap unless someone is using NMG, soi got both hands Sunder mace, when i go trial, i use sunder axemain hand cuz i got no dagger and VO sword on off hand, cuz i got no dagger either and i won't oven pen.

RABIDxWOLVERINE

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Are you 100% sure Shrouded daggers procs selenes? I have honestly not tested it, but selens procs on melee damage and shrouded daggers is a ranged skill. If if it does, I am not totally persuaded by that argument, but if you like daggers go nuts. I actually run them in VMOL for AOE fights. The splash damage is pretty solid and it allows you to avoid one shots by that darn sword and board guy. Haha

Did a small amount of testing last night. Seems like I was wrong yet again haha I'm going to revisit my bar setups this weekend and see if I cant push out a little more DPS.