Bound On Equip - why?

Raudgrani

I've been thinking really long and hard about why there's such a thing as "Bound On Equip"? Bound On Pickup I understand fully, obviously. I'm happy with that. But BOE? Just why?

I mean, if you have a "golded out" set (let's say Necropotence), and you decide to stop playing Magicka build, and go Stamina - and you're not likely to use it again/have few bank slots/the set becomes crap (in your opinion), why shouldn't you be able to simply sell it, or simply pass it over to a friend for free, or trade it for something else with someone?
You are even likely to mess things up, like I did. Accidently equipped a (defending) Green Pact mace, before I realized I was using Plague Doctor weapons/jewelry, and Green Pact armor - and not the other way around. If I hadn't already made it legendary, I wouldn't have felt nearly as pissed off.

Is this just a way to decrease the amount of money people have, and make them play more ("grind" for gear or gold)? I can't come to think of one logical reason for this.

Nestor

BoE encourages, set diversity, set trading, gear farming, crafting and the economy at the same time.

You trade the extras you have, and you don't flood the market with gear that drops the values of the armor.

swippy

btw, if you had already improved that mace to Legendary, it was already bound to your account by that action. altering a BoE item has the same effect as equipping it.

AzraelKrieg

swippy wrote: »

btw, if you had already improved that mace to Legendary, it was already bound to your account by that action. altering a BoE item has the same effect as equipping it.

No it doesn't. I've improved a lot of BoE items and they remain unbound.

PlagueSD

If someone gave you their old worn underwear, would you wear it?

I don't want your character's old, scratched, dented, smelly armor either.

SirAndy

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

swippy wrote: »

btw, if you had already improved that mace to Legendary, it was already bound to your account by that action. altering a BoE item has the same effect as equipping it.

No it doesn't. I've improved a lot of BoE items and they remain unbound.

Kaktus

PlagueSD wrote: »

If someone gave you their old worn underwear, would you wear it?

I don't want your character's old, scratched, dented, smelly armor either.

I dunno, wouldn't you rather want the worn but battle tested armor of someone that lived versus the beaten and battered blood-soaked armor that you just pulled off the corpse of a boss who the armor clearly didn't save?

AzraelKrieg

Kaktus wrote: »

PlagueSD wrote: »

If someone gave you their old worn underwear, would you wear it?

I don't want your character's old, scratched, dented, smelly armor either.

I dunno, wouldn't you rather want the worn but battle tested armor of someone that lived versus the beaten and battered blood-soaked armor that you just pulled off the corpse of a boss who the armor clearly didn't save?

Both are beaten but at least there is a good chance that the beaten and battered armour off a corpse saw a good amount of use before the person wearing it died.

Acrolas

I get the principle behind bound gear, but there are definitely ways to make the whole system more attractive.

Like, you could gain renown levels on those bound weapons, meaning the longer you used them, the more valuable they'd become to vendors when you decide to sell them. So instead of just deconning your old gear, you'd gain a more substantial amount of gold to sell it off.

But a system like that could really only exist where an honor system works, and so long as we have some people running bots we all can't have nice things. In a multiplayer game with cheaters you have to accept imperfect solutions.

KRBMMO

Kaktus wrote: »

PlagueSD wrote: »

If someone gave you their old worn underwear, would you wear it?

I don't want your character's old, scratched, dented, smelly armor either.

I dunno, wouldn't you rather want the worn but battle tested armor of someone that lived versus the beaten and battered blood-soaked armor that you just pulled off the corpse of a boss who the armor clearly didn't save?

Ok, get rid of BOE and introduce a % chance you'll get a debuff from crabs, scabies, lice, or a mysterious rash.

kargen27

Acrolas wrote: »

I get the principle behind bound gear, but there are definitely ways to make the whole system more attractive.

Like, you could gain renown levels on those bound weapons, meaning the longer you used them, the more valuable they'd become to vendors when you decide to sell them. So instead of just deconning your old gear, you'd gain a more substantial amount of gold to sell it off.

But a system like that could really only exist where an honor system works, and so long as we have some people running bots we all can't have nice things. In a multiplayer game with cheaters you have to accept imperfect solutions.

Maybe get 75% of the gold you spent repairing the stuff back?

rynth

perhaps they could make it so you can only sell used gear through a guild merchant and then tack on a reuse fee like how guilds get a cut and so forth with posting price of item. That way you can sell gear that has already been used to someone that can use it. hell it's not like people don't buy stuff at yard sales, pawn shops, flea markets, etc.

sort of a win -win situation the gear for being used gets a gold amount penalty deducted from the sale of the item and you get to sell your old gear that takes up space. Plus it would allow those of us that dungeon farm to make some money again on items we get in a dungeon but don't need.

swippy

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

swippy wrote: »

btw, if you had already improved that mace to Legendary, it was already bound to your account by that action. altering a BoE item has the same effect as equipping it.

No it doesn't. I've improved a lot of BoE items and they remain unbound.

is that right? my mistake.

i've only recently begun acquiring stuff worth improving, and i think i know what threw me off. thanks for setting me straight

Sixty5

It mostly exists to keep gear rare, without having to destroy droprates.

If 10000 people have a set of Necropotence that they use and the set is freely traded, then you have 10000 sets of Necropotence in the economy. If it is bind on equip, then those sets are removed from the economy, thus increasing scarcity. That means that you can have a reasonable drop rate for the items and still keep them as something desirable to get.

If you look at something like Path of Exile where there is no gear binding, most items are worth almost nothing, and then the ones that are valuable, get their value from massive RNG or difficulty in acquisition.

AzraelKrieg

swippy wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

swippy wrote: »

btw, if you had already improved that mace to Legendary, it was already bound to your account by that action. altering a BoE item has the same effect as equipping it.

No it doesn't. I've improved a lot of BoE items and they remain unbound.

is that right? my mistake.

i've only recently begun acquiring stuff worth improving, and i think i know what threw me off. thanks for setting me straight

If it did, master writs would be useless. A guild mate of mine tried to turn in a piece they had made but because of an addon it auto-equipped and bound the piece so they had to remake it.

Raudgrani

I get many things, like this where you can't trade/sell stuff you've changed in this new transmute thing. It should be rewarding to play, you'll need to research that Nirnhoned trait in order to make your Ebon shield Nirnhoned and so on. That's good.

But this BOE thing, just no? People always speak of "it boosts/ruins the economy". If we could actually sell our old legendary Necro gear, or just give it away - in the extent, there need for millions to have a new set is smaller. I mean, sometimes I run in a group in Cyrodiil. I have legendary Spell Power Cure gear, and a friend is alternating as a PVP healer. If I would just borrow him my SPC, we would be way better off.
And yes, I am getting rid of a FULL Necro set. Jewelry, weapons and all. What will it give me? Like 500 gold from Nuzimeh, and perhaps like 3 golden improving materials? It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. And no, it doesn't promote "gear diversity", quite the contrary really. There are non BOP sets I'd like to try for experimental purposes, but I won't. Finding out if they are any good would cost me money, and I would have like none back if I found out it wasn't any good. How's that "diverse"?

There's a tendency in this game to decide all sorts of things for you, while you have literally DOZENS of Chinese bot farmers on every noob island, all the time, every day - and while we have obvious cheat engine users in Cyrodiil for example. These are not dealt with, no matter how many are reporting them, sending video clips and so forth. It feels like here in Sweden. Law abiding citizens get less and less freedom, and have to pay more all the time, while the freeloaders ignore every law without consequences, and get everything free! LOL Tamriel is Sweden...

Finally - as a few kind words for ZOS: I really love this new transmute system. I couldn't think of a better solution. I just remember the DAYS of gear grinding previously, with a couple of friends. Admittedly, we still had fun, even though we cursed the "RNG Devil" while doing so. We probably didn't realize it, but we sure had fun.
I bought a junk Silks of the Sun sword yesterday for 15k, and turned it Nirnhoned a few minutes later. Instead of paying like 300k for it. This is a good way to balance economy. Gear grinding RIP! Now we just need a way to level up low level gear... ;-)

Dojohoda

I'm thinking BOE is a hygienic safeguard. Ya, no one should wear my Toon's stinky armor hand-me-downs

Nestor

swippy wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

swippy wrote: »

btw, if you had already improved that mace to Legendary, it was already bound to your account by that action. altering a BoE item has the same effect as equipping it.

No it doesn't. I've improved a lot of BoE items and they remain unbound.

is that right? my mistake.

i've only recently begun acquiring stuff worth improving, and i think i know what threw me off. thanks for setting me straight

Now, if you dye the gear, then its bound. If you wear BoE, even for a minute to see what it lools like, its Bound. But, you can improve an item then vendor/sell it. It's what I do with all my Divine Armor drops I get in Green.

Saint314Louis1985

if they got rid of boe/bop they would have to reduce the drop rate a ridiculous amount for anything good including improvement materials or there would be no economy.

Axoinus

Dojohoda wrote: »

I'm thinking BOE is a hygienic safeguard. Ya, no one should wear my Toon's stinky armor hand-me-downs

Hygiene? I have yet to see a toilet or sink in game. Not even a mirror. So how does that work?

I bet Tamriel smells like France..

Raudgrani

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

if they got rid of boe/bop they would have to reduce the drop rate a ridiculous amount for anything good including improvement materials or there would be no economy.

What would you need "the economy" for, then?

Saint314Louis1985

Raudgrani wrote: »

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

if they got rid of boe/bop they would have to reduce the drop rate a ridiculous amount for anything good including improvement materials or there would be no economy.

What would you need "the economy" for, then?

off the top of my head, people would need to generate gold for housing items, potions, food, repairs, etc. alot of people dont like to take the time to farm/craft such things.

guilds need to generate some revenue for trader locations.

if no new gear ever needs to be crafted or sold, materials or gear would never sell (which is currently a major way to make gold) because there would be way more supply than demand with how easily they can be farmed atm.

over half of the market would be pretty much gone.

Psyonico

Dojohoda wrote: »

I'm thinking BOE is a hygienic safeguard. Ya, no one should wear my Toon's stinky armor hand-me-downs

I always thought of it more as the armor had to be fitted to the person, do it won't fit anyone else

Raudgrani

Psyonico wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

I'm thinking BOE is a hygienic safeguard. Ya, no one should wear my Toon's stinky armor hand-me-downs

I always thought of it more as the armor had to be fitted to the person, do it won't fit anyone else

Well, you can use it on largest possible nord and smallest possible wood elf, among your own characters. So no. :-)

Raudgrani

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

if they got rid of boe/bop they would have to reduce the drop rate a ridiculous amount for anything good including improvement materials or there would be no economy.

What would you need "the economy" for, then?

off the top of my head, people would need to generate gold for housing items, potions, food, repairs, etc. alot of people dont like to take the time to farm/craft such things.

guilds need to generate some revenue for trader locations.

if no new gear ever needs to be crafted or sold, materials or gear would never sell (which is currently a major way to make gold) because there would be way more supply than demand with how easily they can be farmed atm.

over half of the market would be pretty much gone.

You are likely vastly (to say the least) over exaggerating the possible consequences here.

Drummerx04

PlagueSD wrote: »

If someone gave you their old worn underwear, would you wear it?

I don't want your character's old, scratched, dented, smelly armor either.

I'm pretty sure there is a fetish for that...

ADarklore

Someone complaining about BOE when it's BOP that really needs to go! I have no problem with BOE, if you use it, it should become account bound... and yes, the idea that people selling their left over gear would ruin the economy is true. This is why you still see high prices for many set items... and also the market would be flooded with low-prices sets once a nerf was done or a new BIS set came out.

Raudgrani

PlagueSD wrote: »

If someone gave you their old worn underwear, would you wear it?

I don't want your character's old, scratched, dented, smelly armor either.

If they costed some hundred thousand to get hold of, required me to search for them in deep dungeons - over and over again sometimes for weeks - filled with lethal monsters, and if they gave me superhuman powers once I had the like 5 pieces of the same brand, yes.

Raudgrani

PlagueSD wrote: »

If someone gave you their old worn underwear, would you wear it?

I don't want your character's old, scratched, dented, smelly armor either.

If they costed some hundred thousand to get hold of, required me to search for them in deep dungeons - over and over again sometimes for weeks - filled with lethal monsters, and if they gave me superhuman powers once I had the like 5 pieces of the same brand, yes.