oticks

GreenSoup2HoT

I could careless about a D-tick when a keep flips in under 2 minutes because of how insane ram's perform. I honestly wish siegeing took time and effort with a continuous front to actually claim keeps (could just be home keeps that are like this).

The 6 inner keeps can remain weak since its "ring around the rosie" anyways. Its the home keeps that should be hard to take.

Joy_Division

Game is already ruined. Stale map funneling players to fight in just 15% of it. CP system broken. Classes nerfed and neutered of their distinctiveness. No sounds but bonus load screens.

Sure, 1.5K for PvEing a resource is dumb, but what's the alternative for incentivizing people to get out there and a fight? As it is, half the people in Cyrodiil stare at their maps waiting for keeps to come under attack or crossed swords to apper because for how large Cyrodiil is, there is hardly anything to do...except PvDooring.

ZoS could hotfix the AP however you think it should be and it's not going to alter player behavior. Cyrodiil's problems go a lot deeper than that.

GreenSoup2HoT

Joy_Division wrote: »

Game is already ruined. Stale map funneling players to fight in just 15% of it. CP system broken. Classes nerfed and neutered of their distinctiveness. No sounds but bonus load screens.

Sure, 1.5K for PvEing a resource is dumb, but what's the alternative for incentivizing people to get out there and a fight? As it is, half the people in Cyrodiil stare at their maps waiting for keeps to come under attack or crossed swords to apper because for how large Cyrodiil is, there is hardly anything to do...except PvDooring.

ZoS could hotfix the AP however you think it should be and it's not going to alter player behavior. Cyrodiil's problems go a lot deeper than that.

It would be a dream come true if the servers could handle a couple hundred more people. Then there would be action all over the map.

DeadlyRecluse

Bonuses to Oticks were a great idea to spread groups out, just need to more evenly distribute rather than blanket everyone with 6k/3k/1.5k.

Solo a resource? That's worth 1.5k, sure. Split that between every player involved down to say a 250 AP minimum (with 6+ on it).

6man a keep? That's great! Good for you for avoiding the zergy messes! Let's say you 6 get to split 12k AP. Bring more to the party, and that keeps getting reduced down to say 500 AP minimum (with 24+).

Etc. etc. Promote actually splitting up and playing the whole map, not factionstacking Oticks against empty keeps.

Derra

Imo defensive and offensive ticks should not exist.

Just raise ap gained near keeps and resources by 30%.

VaranisArano

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Bonuses to Oticks were a great idea to spread groups out, just need to more evenly distribute rather than blanket everyone with 6k/3k/1.5k.

Solo a resource? That's worth 1.5k, sure. Split that between every player involved down to say a 250 AP minimum (with 6+ on it).

6man a keep? That's great! Good for you for avoiding the zergy messes! Let's say you 6 get to split 12k AP. Bring more to the party, and that keeps getting reduced down to say 500 AP minimum (with 24+).

Etc. etc. Promote actually splitting up and playing the whole map, not factionstacking Oticks against empty keeps.

The problem is...

Playing the whole map inevitably means PvDooring empty keeps. If my EP group tries to take Castle Brindle, by golly we are playing the whole map! But we are also PvDooring a keep that 9/10 times is going to be nearly empty. If my EP group splits off from the main rush going Chalman ->Bleakers -> Aleswell to go capture Dragonclaw, chances are, Dragonclaw will be empty or lightly defended because all the DC defenders are very sensibly defending against the EP rushing towards Aleswell. But I'm playing the whole map! That's what you wanted, isn't it?

EP hitting AD's back keeps while AD is pushing North? Playing the whole map. DC hitting EP's home keeps while EP is pushing Aleswell or down south? Playing the whole map. On a good, healthy faction, the faction has enough population to hit the enemy at home and in the field at the same time. In circumstances like that, PvDoor is inevitable for at least some members of the faction. Its also what splitting up and playing the whole map looks like.

If you want PVP players to provide you those epic multi-raid battles at keeps, you have to accept that those are going to be at a limited number of keeps where it makes sense to stack that many players. If you want PVP players to provide those epic, multi-hour defensive battles, you have to accept that those happen at certain home keeps for the faction. If you want PVP players to play the whole map, you have to accept that PvDoor happens.

If you want me to play the whole map, then I'm going to be hitting empty keeps sometimes, because its very rare that active PVP players will just sit in their back keeps to scout when their fighting to be had elsewhere on the map. No one politely knocks on the front door of an enemy keep and patiently waits for the defenders to port in and set up countersiege before finally deciding to start their own siege. (Unless its a trap of Admiral Ackbarian proportions, of course).

P.S. Who actually faction stacks on an empty keep? An organized raid + pugs might look like a veritable horde of enemy players, but most faction stacks happen at crucial captures/defenses that have obvious strategic value, such that they are rarely empty of defenders. (Now, I'm judging by PC/NA Vivec standards. Its true that on Shor, an organized raid+pugs might indeed be the entirety of a faction, but that's not really a faction stack.)

zyk

The past 90 mins or so on Vivec were composed of a DC faction stack rolling down to Altadoon starting with Ash, almost completely uncontested.

As soon as the scroll is long gone, the 3 bars of AD no one knew the whereabouts of come out of the woodwork to zerg empty keeps for their 6k ticks -- the same motivation the DC faction stack had when it rolled south.

Through it all, there wasn't a single good fight. @ZOS_BrianWheeler your scoring system is extremely broken and is killing PVP.

VaranisArano

As an EP player on Vivec, let me tell you that I have deep suspicions of team green and faction swapping players and cooperation when things like that happen.

Might you, I'm certain that AD and DC have deep suspicions about team purple and team orange whenever similar things happen to them, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

As for fights, its almost like no one wants to fight a faction stack and its hard to blame them. But on the other hand, if what the faction stack is doing makes the most strategic sense at the time, its hard to blame the faction for stacking.

Most fights, on a faction level, come down to strategy. Is this objective important? Can we win? Yes. Go there. When enough players reach that same conclusion, you get zergs and faction stacks. Conversely, the other side sits there like "Is this objective important? Yes. Can we win? Probably not, and its going to take my entire faction support to do so. Is my entire faction going to support the defense? Let's be honest, probably not. So some groups reach that conclusion and try anyway. Others don't try, for a variety of reasons (too far away, defending/attacking something else/think they can pull the enemy back by flagging home keeps, etc.)

Now when does the defending team's calculations flip around to "We can win this!" is when the enemy has moved on to another objective and thus you see players swarm to retake keeps that the enemy forces left undefended.

I'm going to close by repeating something I've been saying. Good defenses happen when the defenders are at the keeps before the enemy arrives. Relying on ports or ride-ins is difficult when the enemy hits a keep in force, because a good raid can siege very quickly and a faction stack has no excuse for not going 20/20 siege. Under those circumstances, the defenders have to be dug in and prepared. So if you want the sort of defense that stops faction stacks, you have to organize your faction in order to get it. It doesn't happen on its own - players have to create it.