Ice staff balance suggestions comes with the Monthly Combat Update

Maura_Neysa

lucky_Sage wrote: »

or go with my idea and remove frost tanking and blocking a give frost staffs increase spell pen and fully charged heavy attacks now roots the target for 2 seconds

also for all staffs now doesn't require a abilty slotted to get all the passives (why because stam weapons don't have to)

for other staffs aswell

fire staffs should give a rawr dmg buff to all abilities
shock staffs should now increase crit dmg

frost staff tanking wont work its called the destruction staff it should be for dmg only

come out with a melee magick weapon wiith 3 options
sword and staff
mace and staff
shield and staff

your staff chooses your element only thing element changes is dmg type and status effect the main hand weapon will determine how it works.

Wait, so you want to remove the ONLY variety to tanking, for more variety in DPS? Yeah, that’s brilliant

coplannb16_ESO

it keeps me from using an Ice Staff on my Mag Warden. So I got Lightning/Resto like everyone else. I farmed the Winterborn set, but 8% proc chance is too low when you only got 1 class skill that deals Ice damage... (also damage and cooldown sucks in comparison to other sets including Skoria).

dodgehopper_ESO

Chims wrote: »

I think more people use ice staff than you people think. I personally use ice staff on both bars for tanking but my character isn't doing vet dungeons or trials yet. However, I have tanked all vet dungeons in the past as a magplar all vet dungeons and honestly I don't think it will be a problem to tank with it on my warden.

The bonus of using it is you have more offensive capabilities. If you build a team around the tank just only tanking and doing nothing else then yes, its not going to be as good as S/B but that's not what its purpose is, its for hybrid dps tanks and does its job fine doing so. If your not doing trials I feel none of its short comings to tanking are even relevant. It's alternative way to tank, it doesn't need to be the same cookie cutter S/B style tank and I want to keep it in the destruction line so I can cast blockade while I am tanking for aoe based aggro.

The heavy attack is essentially a free taunt and shield. If you need a faster taunt then run inner fire, you shouldn't even have to use it as much because you can taunt with HA.

Also let's not forget that all this ice staff tanking provides chilled which gives a 15% damage reduction to further add to tanking. This doesn't affect just the tank but anyone else who takes damage. People tend to forget this fact when they compare the two.

Does 'chilled' actually work on bosses though?

Maura_Neysa

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Chims wrote: »

I think more people use ice staff than you people think. I personally use ice staff on both bars for tanking but my character isn't doing vet dungeons or trials yet. However, I have tanked all vet dungeons in the past as a magplar all vet dungeons and honestly I don't think it will be a problem to tank with it on my warden.

The bonus of using it is you have more offensive capabilities. If you build a team around the tank just only tanking and doing nothing else then yes, its not going to be as good as S/B but that's not what its purpose is, its for hybrid dps tanks and does its job fine doing so. If your not doing trials I feel none of its short comings to tanking are even relevant. It's alternative way to tank, it doesn't need to be the same cookie cutter S/B style tank and I want to keep it in the destruction line so I can cast blockade while I am tanking for aoe based aggro.

The heavy attack is essentially a free taunt and shield. If you need a faster taunt then run inner fire, you shouldn't even have to use it as much because you can taunt with HA.

Also let's not forget that all this ice staff tanking provides chilled which gives a 15% damage reduction to further add to tanking. This doesn't affect just the tank but anyone else who takes damage. People tend to forget this fact when they compare the two.

Does 'chilled' actually work on bosses though?

Yes Chilled works on bosses, just like Burning and Concused. And just like Off Balance, the root(stun for Off Balance) does not.
If you use the buff tracker (Xbox user here) it’s the blue icon with a white ice shard (arrowhead looking) icon

dodgehopper_ESO

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Chims wrote: »

I think more people use ice staff than you people think. I personally use ice staff on both bars for tanking but my character isn't doing vet dungeons or trials yet. However, I have tanked all vet dungeons in the past as a magplar all vet dungeons and honestly I don't think it will be a problem to tank with it on my warden.

The bonus of using it is you have more offensive capabilities. If you build a team around the tank just only tanking and doing nothing else then yes, its not going to be as good as S/B but that's not what its purpose is, its for hybrid dps tanks and does its job fine doing so. If your not doing trials I feel none of its short comings to tanking are even relevant. It's alternative way to tank, it doesn't need to be the same cookie cutter S/B style tank and I want to keep it in the destruction line so I can cast blockade while I am tanking for aoe based aggro.

The heavy attack is essentially a free taunt and shield. If you need a faster taunt then run inner fire, you shouldn't even have to use it as much because you can taunt with HA.

Also let's not forget that all this ice staff tanking provides chilled which gives a 15% damage reduction to further add to tanking. This doesn't affect just the tank but anyone else who takes damage. People tend to forget this fact when they compare the two.

Does 'chilled' actually work on bosses though?

Yes Chilled works on bosses, just like Burning and Concused. And just like Off Balance, the root(stun for Off Balance) does not.
If you use the buff tracker (Xbox user here) it’s the blue icon with a white ice shard (arrowhead looking) icon

The reason I ask is simply that bosses like to ignore effects. Its an annoying element of MMO's.

RGvolterra

I’ve never considered using an ice staff to tank since sword and shield do the job perfectly ... it’s more obvious that by using S&S one will be able to not only be defensive but offensive at the same time. What I’d really like to see towards the ice stuff is a better DPS prospect ... of course it does not mean we would be removing its current effects such as crown control but it’d really nice if the chill effect could be buffed to be as strong as the flame or lightening staff. One of my characters has been designed to use only cold abilities and unfortunately while in PVP I cannot kill anyone just by counting on the cold ( frost damage ) as the DPS is insignificant. So here’s the hint , increase the frost DPS in order to make ice staff more useful and versatile.

idk

Urza1234 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

OP has some good points. However, even with all of them the ice staff is not ready for serious tanking. It's just doesn't offer utility for the group.

It's great for someone who wants to say I tank with an ice staff. However, S&B offers much more for the group having a tank that debuffs the target for an ice dps boost to the group.

As I said, OP makes some good points but they're secondary to the main reason the ice staff is not a good main hand choice to serious tanking.

Thats not entirely true, Wall of Ice is actually fantastic. Also blocking with 2 different resource pools is fantastic, especially if you're like me and have either Desert Rose or Equilibrium.

Honestly the OP is mostly right, especially about the Ice-staff Taunt, its just too unwieldy.
I personally do not feel a big difference between Ice-staff blocking and S&B blocking running both on the same toon. Sure the math says the difference is there, but I personally cant really tell when actually using the damned stick.

Personally I would consider dropping S&B altogether if Pierce Armor wasnt such an overloaded ability. Its practically free, its got both MBreech/MFracture, and it taunts, that *** move does everything.

My comment is completely true.

While I had forgotten about minor maim the ice staff can apply, reducing targets damage done, S&B is able to apply that debuff more reliably. Thx for bringing that up.

What i had mentioned in my previous post you were replying to is Major Fracture and Major Breach which is most effective at increasing the groups damage in a 12 man raid and why S&B is far superior for trial tanking.

The only times I have seen a staff used by a tank has been for getting interrupts and more of the time they put no points into the passives, just crushing shock.

It was poorly designed which is basically what one gets when retrofitting part of a damage weapon to make it a tanking weapon. Zos should change the ice staff back to damage and design a proper magicka tanking weapon.

Maura_Neysa

RGvolterra wrote: »

I’ve never considered using an ice staff to tank since sword and shield do the job perfectly ... it’s more obvious that by using S&S one will be able to not only be defensive but offensive at the same time. What I’d really like to see towards the ice stuff is a better DPS prospect ... of course it does not mean we would be removing its current effects such as crown control but it’d really nice if the chill effect could be buffed to be as strong as the flame or lightening staff. One of my characters has been designed to use only cold abilities and unfortunately while in PVP I cannot kill anyone just by counting on the cold ( frost damage ) as the DPS is insignificant. So here’s the hint , increase the frost DPS in order to make ice staff more useful and versatile.

Minor Maim is -15% damage. If it had the DPS of fire or lighting, it would be OP. Fire is +12% Ice is -15%. I kill people with ice ON MY TANK, CC is the key to killing players and ice has a ton of that.

Maura_Neysa

idk wrote: »

Urza1234 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

OP has some good points. However, even with all of them the ice staff is not ready for serious tanking. It's just doesn't offer utility for the group.

It's great for someone who wants to say I tank with an ice staff. However, S&B offers much more for the group having a tank that debuffs the target for an ice dps boost to the group.

As I said, OP makes some good points but they're secondary to the main reason the ice staff is not a good main hand choice to serious tanking.

Thats not entirely true, Wall of Ice is actually fantastic. Also blocking with 2 different resource pools is fantastic, especially if you're like me and have either Desert Rose or Equilibrium.

Honestly the OP is mostly right, especially about the Ice-staff Taunt, its just too unwieldy.
I personally do not feel a big difference between Ice-staff blocking and S&B blocking running both on the same toon. Sure the math says the difference is there, but I personally cant really tell when actually using the damned stick.

Personally I would consider dropping S&B altogether if Pierce Armor wasnt such an overloaded ability. Its practically free, its got both MBreech/MFracture, and it taunts, that *** move does everything.

My comment is completely true.

While I had forgotten about minor maim the ice staff can apply, reducing targets damage done, S&B is able to apply that debuff more reliably. Thx for bringing that up.

What i had mentioned in my previous post you were replying to is Major Fracture and Major Breach which is most effective at increasing the groups damage in a 12 man raid and why S&B is far superior for trial tanking.

The only times I have seen a staff used by a tank has been for getting interrupts and more of the time they put no points into the passives, just crushing shock.

It was poorly designed which is basically what one gets when retrofitting part of a damage weapon to make it a tanking weapon. Zos should change the ice staff back to damage and design a proper magicka tanking weapon.

Major Fracture (Decrease physical resistance by 5280)
One Hand and Shield Ability: Puncture+Morhps
Nightblade Assassination Ability: Mark Target+Morphs
Nightblade Shadow Ability: Surprise Attack (Morph of Veiled Strike)
Dragonknight Ardent Flame Ability: Noxious Breath (Morph of Fiery Breath)
Warden Animal Companion Ability: Subterranean Assault (Morph of Scorch)

- Not hard to get Major Fracture, both serious tank classes have a class skill for it.
- Heroic Slash is so far inferior for allying Minor Maim, 1 target at a time, compared to AOE?
- Any Tank not taking Acient Knowledge, isn’t worth bringing into a vet dungeon much less a vet trial
- The only real advantage 1H/S has is Battle Field Mobilty passive. Yes it has 6% more block cost, 15% projectile mitigation, and Defensive Posture. I don’t feel any of those when I’m on my Ice Staff, but I do still try to make sure I’m on the 1H/S when The Warrior heavies.