PSA - Fake tanks get a clue: kiting is not tanking

Pele

Votekick. Without warning.

modaretto

It is also the case even in trials. If you want the thing hitting you to stop bring it INTO the aoe so it dies

kringled_1

Not a fake tank but as a less experienced one, I will taunt and do my best to hold aggro, but I'm unsure of which red aoe's I can stand and block through, and which I need to get out of (roll dodge or otherwise). So apologies if that happens.

IwakuraLain42

CrazyWolf712 wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

idk wrote: »

The question I have is why keep casting the ground AoE if he keeps moving the boss? Regardless of how hard the AoE hits it will be rather weak if the boss is not in it long.

Because I'm an optimist and I keep thinking he's bound to stop with 3 people typing "QUIT KITING!"

Some bosses require a little kiting. If you were tanking Velidreth, are you just going to stand there in her heavy attack as the health stealing orbs keep hitting you and taking away your ability to heal? No! Even a tank needs to move out of bad stuff, especially if they are out of resources and the healer’s dead.

You can easily move around her as a tank, avoiding her heavy hits and the orbs and still keep her stationary.

Jade1986

There is such a thing as a dodge tank. Just so you know.

Jade1986

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

This is what happens when you pidgeonhole tanking so badly it isn't fun to run anymore.

Ther are actually a ton of possible tank builds but people just don run them. One of the least used ones is warden ice tanking with an ice staff. It is SUPER fun, effective, and much more versatile than the Snore and Board DK tank. There are also NB tanking possibilities, sorc tanking possibilities, and templar tanking possibilties but people want the easiest tanking and opt for dk Snore and Board. In which case, it is really their own fault that it is so boring.

GreenhaloX

Oh.. you must be referring to a sorc with ice staff. Also, happens often in the Gold Coast's Arena wb. A certain sorc aggroing the boss with the ice staff heavy attack, then back paddling around the arena. Well.. if there is no "real tank" there, then it's better than none. However, when there is a real tank there, and that sorc is continuously doing it, then it defeats the purpose. Also, I notice the ice staff taunt breaks the boss of my taunt (real tank.) How is that? I mean, I'm holding the boss at bay, then a sorc blasts the boss with the ice staff, then the boss pulls away and goes after that sorc. Interesting..

Now, as far as dungeons.. (and not defending the fake tank), but again, it's better than nothing. Sure, you can kick and kick all you want, if you're that type, or just roll with it and knock out the dungeon. 3 dps and a healer can still get through any of the vet dungeon. Heck, I find it more easily to roll with all four dps (self-sustaining heal, that is..)

After a long time playing this game, there are just countless annoying and troubling things that people/players do, and it doesn't matter who complains about it or how many times you call them out on this forum, the same craps people do are still going on. They are not going to stop. Those not a real tank and queuing in as one will still continue to do so; despite how many times you will kick and kick them. Just like in the real world, unfortunately, there are just a lot of messed up people doing messed up things. Same goes in this game. There are just a lot of people doing messed up things in this game.

VaranisArano

Just a reminder, if you want to see what experienced tanks are advising players new to tanking to do, check out the Tanking University thread.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/377221/tanking-university/p1

VaranisArano

kringled_1 wrote: »

Not a fake tank but as a less experienced one, I will taunt and do my best to hold aggro, but I'm unsure of which red aoe's I can stand and block through, and which I need to get out of (roll dodge or otherwise). So apologies if that happens.

On Normal difficulty, you should be able to stand and block through all of the red AOEs unless there are the red flashing lines that tell you to interrupt. Most of my DPS can survive those as long as they block, though roll dodging is significantly nicer to the healer. Some will take a nasty chunk out of your health, (Like Nerien'eth's big aoe) but between self-heals and the healer you should be fine. Some AOEs have a stun, but most are negligible on Normal difficulty.

On Veteran difficulty, you should also be able to stand and block most of the red AOEs as long as you have good resistances. However, be prepared for them to take a big chunk of health and start spamming your self-heals because its much more likely that the healer is dealing with the squishier people. If you are having trouble with those big boss attacks, check your resistances and if those are good, then use dodging or roll dodge out. Here you'll learn most of what you can and can't tank in the face by experience. I prefer to run Veteran dungeons with friends while i learn the dungeon because they are much more forgiving about kiting while our long-suffering healer rezzes the over-confident tank.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Iselin wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

So done with all these tank QQ post if you want people to tank your way teach them or do it yourself. I PuG dailies with no problem and jump in as a trail tank for friends here and there. Everyone’s always happy that you tanked for them but no one wants to make a Tank themselves.

But the question is are you a kiter or do you stand there and take it like a man?

I face Tank, pull agro taunt the boss then big guys and I talons who I can in place so DPS can AoE nuke. But I don’t run gear for the team I group up targets and they knock them down. I have Warhorn and Barrier. If all is good I blow the horn. If DPS is low or healer is not cutting it I drop a Barrier.

I refuse to wear gear that help other people more then my build. Like Ebon if you like the 1k changing literally one big armor enchant will do it for you. People are lazy in this game want you to give them a bonus they can get themselves but it would take away from their pure DPS.

My tank can and has stayed up when the whole wiped. I walked the boss to their body Rez them raise and repeat. My healer keeps HoTs and ground based HoTs down 24/7. With some DPS and Jesus Beam on the back bar for when my group is fully healed. My DPS don’t stand in stupid, has self heals and can sustain.

If you see someone not playing their role right talk to them. I know PvP players above the cap that never hit one dungeon. Anyone can be new to this and anyone willing to listen can be helped. If you took the time to help and teach you would leave the game better then you found it.

Just saying pointing at problems with no real solution is called complaining. Without a solution complaining is pointless.

Raising awareness of why kiting as a tank is generally a bad idea through the use of some humorous ridicule (as I thought I had done) in a forum post reaches a lot more potentially bad tanks than anything else I can think of.

Raising awareness would have been sharing BiS build and cheaper alternatives to answer the question of what to wear. What skills are need to hold agro and stay alive. Helping would have been explaining the basics of tanking.

That not what this post is. It’s a neon sign to new players that tanking is a role so hard nearly no one does it and everyone hates a bad one. I PvP I don’t know the mechanics of a single dungeon I didn't need gear from. I don’t care about achievements or leaderboards, so I just PvE when I have to.

Yet I craft armor and weapons for new players I will carry them in a fight run a DPS build that hold Argo basically my off tank build. During and after I give tips on how to DPS.
Meet a guy off handing the bow for ranges stamina returns had on no sets made him so Hunding’s Rage brought some Senche’s Bite, cause he rolled a lot. Told him that Endless Hail and Poison Arrow were great to fire and jump to melee and light them up. Purple gear two new attacks and I changed the whole flow of the run they were a premade of new players ended up making them all gear and showing the ropes.

This actually helped. When you help new and bad players it makes PuG better then they are now. All this post did was gave more new people a reason not to try tanking.

Belegnole

Iselin wrote: »

Raising awareness of why kiting as a tank is generally a bad idea through the use of some humorous ridicule (as I thought I had done) in a forum post reaches a lot more potentially bad tanks than anything else I can think of.

Ridicule is one of the least effective ways to teach.

Personally it sounds like all of you are tired of new players from other games. Games where tanks move. Sometimes quite a bit due to that game's mechanics.

If you don't want the tank to move, teach them why not. Just "telling" them in a chat box often doesn't work because they get defensive.

Nogawd

Ertthewolf wrote: »

Anyway this doesn't matter unless you are a trial goer. I can solo most Vet dungeons....Everyone quit complaining about how everyone else plays because you rely on a META group to carry you....

Yeah even when I run on my tank or healer, I see some pure glass cannon dps characters out there. Super duper squishy, refusing to get out of enemy aoe, expecting the tank and healer to save them.

Glass cannons, though fun on questing, is not fun for some dungeons or other content. You should have some self sustain, shields, and self heals.

Unlikely_Ghostbuster

Mazbt wrote: »

These type of posts are popping up so often lol. Yes it's annoying when someone's kiting around the boss and your grounds dost are wasted. No it's not detrimental to completing most of the normal or veteran dungeons. You take more time in queue looking for a real tank.

Unfortunately, it's to be expected right after a new incentive to do dungeon content (transmute crystals) is introduced.

Recently, I've seen some rather paltry tanking from which kiting would be a marked improvement. Tanks who don't know how to block or break-free. Tanks that are apparently wearing tissue paper instead of armor. I even had a tank say to me, totally serious, "Well it's not like I can make them attack me," legitimately unaware of what a taunt is.

Of course, that's better than a non-healing healer or a "spectator" DPS who spends half the dungeon doing absolutely nothing.

Personally, the types of tanks that irritate me the most aren't the "fake" tanks, but the needy/entitled tanks who assume every healer is going to constantly throw them shards and orbs, even for trash mobs. Good tanks must do more than taunt, block, and eat a sandwich. Know your build well enough to sustain your own resources because you might not always have a topnotch healer to do it for you.

That's right: I propose tanks go that extra mile and work in the occasional heavy attack and/or stamina potion. *GASP*

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Unlikely_Ghostbuster wrote: »

Mazbt wrote: »

These type of posts are popping up so often lol. Yes it's annoying when someone's kiting around the boss and your grounds dost are wasted. No it's not detrimental to completing most of the normal or veteran dungeons. You take more time in queue looking for a real tank.

Unfortunately, it's to be expected right after a new incentive to do dungeon content (transmute crystals) is introduced.

Recently, I've seen some rather paltry tanking from which kiting would be a marked improvement. Tanks who don't know how to block or break-free. Tanks that are apparently wearing tissue paper instead of armor. I even had a tank say to me, totally serious, "Well it's not like I can make them attack me," legitimately unaware of what a taunt is.

Of course, that's better than a non-healing healer or a "spectator" DPS who spends half the dungeon doing absolutely nothing.

Personally, the types of tanks that irritate me the most aren't the "fake" tanks, but the needy/entitled tanks who assume every healer is going to constantly throw them shards and orbs, even for trash mobs. Good tanks must do more than taunt, block, and eat a sandwich. Know your build well enough to sustain your own resources because you might not always have a topnotch healer to do it for you.

That's right: I propose tanks go that extra mile and work in the occasional heavy attack and/or stamina potion. *GASP*

Have you ever played a tank? If you are new to a role and you look up builds all tank builds have sets that give a group bonus and nothing else in the way of tanking. You will have the Armor rating and health. But if you’re new to tanking it’s not enough.

You could have told him what taunts are clearly new to the role. If you are not going to help a guy learn the role and you want people that definitely know what to do run a premade group.

NolaArch

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

I refuse to wear gear that help other people more then my build. Like Ebon if you like the 1k changing literally one big armor enchant will do it for you. People are lazy in this game want you to give them a bonus they can get themselves but it would take away from their pure DPS.

Sarcasm? Because helping your team and not just yourself is part of...well, working as a team. It’s why one DPS might opt to wear NMG while the other runs their regular gear. Healers have sets that also help the group. Refusal just sounds self-serving and oblivious. If that was sarcasm, though, disregard.

Mojmir

I kite when dps don't know how to drop aoes or synergies, BTW not all bosses are target dummies. They move too

GrigorijMalahevich

I think Justin Timberlake wrote a song about your situation. It goes something like this “cry me a river...”

jaws343

Jeremy wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

CrazyWolf712 wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

idk wrote: »

The question I have is why keep casting the ground AoE if he keeps moving the boss? Regardless of how hard the AoE hits it will be rather weak if the boss is not in it long.

Because I'm an optimist and I keep thinking he's bound to stop with 3 people typing "QUIT KITING!"

Some bosses require a little kiting. If you were tanking Velidreth, are you just going to stand there in her heavy attack as the health stealing orbs keep hitting you and taking away your ability to heal? No! Even a tank needs to move out of bad stuff, especially if they are out of resources and the healer’s dead.

There ARE exceptions to every rule... The Planar Inhibitor also, of course.

But the thing is, I can heal you through most stuff including the Engine Guardian's green phase if you just stop running away from my heals.

Oh yes...that fight when some groups make you play hide and seek to heal them.

I eventually had enough of that. For now on when ever I do Engine Guardian I tell the group I will be positioned behind the boss and if they want my heals that is where I'll be. And ever since I did that I don't believe there has been a time since I have had much trouble with it.

I do the same. If they cannoy stay between me an the boss during this fight, I do not rez of they die.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

NolaArch wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

I refuse to wear gear that help other people more then my build. Like Ebon if you like the 1k changing literally one big armor enchant will do it for you. People are lazy in this game want you to give them a bonus they can get themselves but it would take away from their pure DPS.

Sarcasm? Because helping your team and not just yourself is part of...well, working as a team. It’s why one DPS might opt to wear NMG while the other runs their regular gear. Healers have sets that also help the group. Refusal just sounds self-serving and oblivious. If that was sarcasm, though, disregard.

Not sarcasm I’m a selfish Tank I can omit that. I have no problem running a skill them helps the team but sets like Ebon are only good for the team. It’s trash as other sets just as easy to get give more Health. I could use the Shield ultimate and heavy attack for resources, which is better for my sustain then a 10% stat bonus it’s great for DPS so I run it.

Not wearing a set that fails at the role I need which is to keep myself alive, just so everyone can hold on to 1k more magic or stamina that’s lazy. I completely understand the NMG thing that’s just not wasting slots. I hate “Tank” sets that do nothing for the Tank I group mobs, debuff boss -15% damage is a must and I buff allies but I draw the line at subpar gear just for a group buff.

Woeler

Ertthewolf wrote: »

I hate dps that can't do a rotation while moving....Quit learning on a target skeleton :P

Anyway this doesn't matter unless you are a trial goer. I can solo most Vet dungeons....Everyone quit complaining about how everyone else plays because you rely on a META group to carry you....

Quite possibly the dumbest post I've seen here in quite a while. Congratulations.

The_Protagonist

The best solution I see in such a case is to let the 'kiter' die, then the remaining 3 can finish off as usual. Rinse'n'repeat or simply vote to kick or leave after wishing them luck. Go guild or friends and do the dungeon peacefully.

tommalmm

Just a hint. You want a group fast? Roll a tank. Seriously, it's a day worth of work. You don't have to be good at it, just do the basics. People will be so much happier. Damn, you don't even have to create a new character, you don't have to redistribute your CP. More often than not sword and board on top of some heavy armor will be enough. You get your group quickly, people get theirs quickly, problem solved for everyone. Why do you think DDs have longer queues (not really long, in prime time it's like a minute, five tops)? Because there is not enough tanks (and healers too).

Storymaster

I've encountered this a time or two in random daily pugs, only it wasn't a fake tank, just someone who kept running around, kept moving instead of holding boss in the pocket. It was very frustrating and we finally had to kick him.

These tanks be like:

Alexandrious

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Oh.. you must be referring to a sorc with ice staff. Also, happens often in the Gold Coast's Arena wb. A certain sorc aggroing the boss with the ice staff heavy attack, then back paddling around the arena. Well.. if there is no "real tank" there, then it's better than none. However, when there is a real tank there, and that sorc is continuously doing it, then it defeats the purpose. Also, I notice the ice staff taunt breaks the boss of my taunt (real tank.) How is that? I mean, I'm holding the boss at bay, then a sorc blasts the boss with the ice staff, then the boss pulls away and goes after that sorc. Interesting..

Now, as far as dungeons.. (and not defending the fake tank), but again, it's better than nothing. Sure, you can kick and kick all you want, if you're that type, or just roll with it and knock out the dungeon. 3 dps and a healer can still get through any of the vet dungeon. Heck, I find it more easily to roll with all four dps (self-sustaining heal, that is..)

After a long time playing this game, there are just countless annoying and troubling things that people/players do, and it doesn't matter who complains about it or how many times you call them out on this forum, the same craps people do are still going on. They are not going to stop. Those not a real tank and queuing in as one will still continue to do so; despite how many times you will kick and kick them. Just like in the real world, unfortunately, there are just a lot of messed up people doing messed up things. Same goes in this game. There are just a lot of people doing messed up things in this game.

But but, in the real world, you can at least break some of their teeth in if a person annoys ya too much, then they often learn!

Kek

Aeorath

EstelioVeleth wrote: »

To be fair, most dungeons can be easily finished with only dds, sure there is the exception, but I see no harm in a person queuing as a tank/healer when they arent. Stop depending on others.

Not when the game will allow you to get into Wayrest Sewers II with level 20 DPS players. See how you can finish that with those DDs. It will be a fun ride.

NyassaV

I can tank on my DPS because she does a lot of healing so I can stay relatively still. Fake tanks that have to kite are just not that good and need to learn how to run in a bloody circle or heal more

VaranisArano

Aeorath wrote: »

Not when the game will allow you to get into Wayrest Sewers II with level 20 DPS players. See how you can finish that with those DDs. It will be a fun ride.

Good news! With the latest patch for Clockwork City, dungeons are now level-locked to more appropriate levels. Wayrest II, like all II level normal dungeons will now only unlock for characters at or beyond level 45.

xRIVALENx

Don't think Velidreth is a good example of kiting around the room. As a tank I would roll dodge Velidreths heavy attack and the possible fracture attack that follows up after every other heavy attack. Sometimes it is best to eat the spores and purge, even if you move out of the way of the spores you are not kiting the boss around the room.

What do I know though, I can only tank that dungeon with my eyes closed after all.

Bloodroot Forge and Imperial City Prison would be a better example of kiting, mind there are times when the tank can be stationary.

xaraan

SammyFable wrote: »

This behaviour is also seen on most world bosses.

God, this is the worst when someone runs out of the 'area' on a world boss and it resets half way through a fight.

thedude33

kringled_1 wrote: »

Not a fake tank but as a less experienced one, I will taunt and do my best to hold aggro, but I'm unsure of which red aoe's I can stand and block through, and which I need to get out of (roll dodge or otherwise). So apologies if that happens.

While reading this I thought it was one of my posts. I know exactly how you feel.