A Few Thoughts on BGs, PvP, and Balance

skinnycheeks

I've been doing some BGs again since the Clockwork patch hit and have been having fun. I just wanted to share a few thoughts I had and see how everyone else was feeling. I would love if the developers would read and at least consider some of this.

CAPTURE THE RELIC
I just wanted to say GREAT change to adding the cast time to grabbing the relic. I wear heavy armor so I prefer to guard our relic over running one down. It was incredibly annoying in the past how someone could just zip in and take it so quickly that there was no counter-play. This forces the runner to take it by force if someone is guarding it.

DEATHMATCH
I am not a fan of the sigil of power. It is too strong and too random. If there HAS to be a sigil here are a few suggestions:

1. No spawn at the beginning of the match. Why make things lopsided right off the bat by giving one team a lot of power who just happened to be by where it randomly spawned?
2. Take away the randomness. Either spawn it in the center every time or in a spot towards the base of the team in last place. This will give it sort of the mario kart "blue shell" effect, but teams not in last will still know the spawn location and could possibly get there first.
3. If it HAS to be in a random spot, tone down the power of it OR make it so that only 1 team member gets it (whoever activates it).

BALANCE
Ok don't kill me here guys. I main a DK in pvp and a sorc in pve. These are just some things I've noticed. I'm open to the possibility that I'm looking at it from the wrong perspective.

• Sorc's Implosion - Mage's wrath already sucks in that it goes off at a threshold and not at the time of cast, but at least it is based on a SPECIFIC ability cast. What is the logic behind implosion? It is frustrating when you don't know why you died, look at your recap, and see implosion for 5-6k damage. Where is the counterplay to that? It just happens.

Suggestion: Tone down the damage from implosion or take it away. Sorcs already have a strong execute.

• Cliff Racer's Spam - Did they really just want the annoying factor from the original morrowind to carry over and that is why they are undodgeable? I get that you can block and line of site them, but sometimes it isn't really an option. Example: I'm running towards the power sigil and there is a warden behind me also running towards it. He is spamming cliff racers at me and there is nothing I can do to stop taking the damage other than divert from the path and let him get the sigil, or stop and block...and let him get the sigil.

Suggestion: The easiest would be to make them dodgeable. If this won't work, penalize the warden for continued use of it within a certain time period. I get that it is their spammable but if it can't be dodged, there needs to be a timer, maybe 3s after the 2nd cast, that causes the ability to increase in cost.

I'm very open to other opinions and that I could be wrong on some of this stuff. Let me know what you guys think.

Strider__Roshin

Excellent write up. I agree completely.

Sixty5

I really don't like the change to capture the Relic tbh.

It basically means that any team with a big fat tank will never lose their relic.
The window you can bash them is also way too long.

I used to really enjoy the game mode since one person could singlehandedly turn the game around with relentless objective play, now one tank can stall the game out singlehandedly with relentless bash play.

As far as TDM goes. I'd prefer to see the relic spawn at a minute in to start off and also show up on the map and compass.
I definitely agree that starting out with a relic is a huge boost to a team, but having it start in the middle each time is a bit too chaotic.

MehrunesFlagon

Letting us choose the match type would improve it.

Drakkdjinn

Cheese Points, no thanks.

Solariken

Great thoughts, I agree with pretty much everything in the OP.

I would add that they need to change the way the block cost reduction formula works to make it harder to achieve perma-block (without nerfing block for normal builds).

Also Subterranean Assault should be turned into a DoT - stam Warden 1-shotters have it a little too easy IMO.

brandonv516

Sixty5 wrote: »

I really don't like the change to capture the Relic tbh.

It basically means that any team with a big fat tank will never lose their relic.
The window you can bash them is also way too long.

I used to really enjoy the game mode since one person could singlehandedly turn the game around with relentless objective play, now one tank can stall the game out singlehandedly with relentless bash play.

As far as TDM goes. I'd prefer to see the relic spawn at a minute in to start off and also show up on the map and compass.
I definitely agree that starting out with a relic is a huge boost to a team, but having it start in the middle each time is a bit too chaotic.

I'm on console but couldn't you just fear the tank and grab the relic? I mean does the animation take that long to retrieve the relic?

Strider__Roshin

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Letting us choose the match type would improve it.

More than anything else.

Sixty5

brandonv516 wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

I really don't like the change to capture the Relic tbh.

It basically means that any team with a big fat tank will never lose their relic.
The window you can bash them is also way too long.

I used to really enjoy the game mode since one person could singlehandedly turn the game around with relentless objective play, now one tank can stall the game out singlehandedly with relentless bash play.

As far as TDM goes. I'd prefer to see the relic spawn at a minute in to start off and also show up on the map and compass.
I definitely agree that starting out with a relic is a huge boost to a team, but having it start in the middle each time is a bit too chaotic.

I'm on console but couldn't you just fear the tank and grab the relic? I mean does the animation take that long to retrieve the relic?

It takes about a second and a half to 2 seconds to channel the animation.

And I'd love to fear the tank, but sadly ZOS hasn't seen fit to give Sorc a fear, yet.

I mean doing something like this is impossible in the new version or CTR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd2z_rklZX4

I will admit though, that builds like the one I was using there were overperforming to some extent pre-patch, but they were hardly unbeatable.

skinnycheeks

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Cheese Points, no thanks.

Could you elaborate? Not sure what you mean by this.

Waffennacht

Nice work on a sneaky nerf Warden and need sorc thread.

"Just take it away" that's just horrid. I mean really?

Then you want to have wardens punished for spamming their only spammable

Making Shalks a Dot is huge f you to the PvP community and makes dive the only direct damage ability

Smh

Karm1cOne

brandonv516 wrote: »

I'm on console but couldn't you just fear the tank and grab the relic? I mean does the animation take that long to retrieve the relic?

What about non nb players? Fear as a counter is fine if there are other ways to accomplish.

ak_pvp

Waffennacht wrote: »

Nice work on a sneaky nerf Warden and need sorc thread.

"Just take it away" that's just horrid. I mean really?

Then you want to have wardens punished for spamming their only spammable

Making Shalks a Dot is huge f you to the PvP community and makes dive the only direct damage ability

Smh

Bird needs to be dodgable and deflectable. Implosion should be a proc'd dot at any health.

No counter stuff sux.

On my opinions on BGS. Chaos ball should give more points faster, but be more dangerous to hold, and respawn at the centre.

Deathmatch: Either. A) Remove sigil. B.) Same spot every time, and either B1) Everyone of any team gets the buff if in vicinity B2) Only the presser gets it.

Domination: Utter trash. Just run round and round. No point defending because another team will just stack whilst you are fighting and flip it. A team with more people will almost definitely win if games are imbalanced. If they want to keep it. Remove one flag, and make flags go only to white when ANY combat is happening. Be it 1v1 or 4v2. Crazy king is just the better version of this. (But has some issues.)

brandonv516

Karm1cOne wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I'm on console but couldn't you just fear the tank and grab the relic? I mean does the animation take that long to retrieve the relic?

What about non nb players? Fear as a counter is fine if there are other ways to accomplish.

Perfify and rune prison? Do they go through block?

skinnycheeks

brandonv516 wrote: »

Karm1cOne wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I'm on console but couldn't you just fear the tank and grab the relic? I mean does the animation take that long to retrieve the relic?

What about non nb players? Fear as a counter is fine if there are other ways to accomplish.

Perfify and rune prison? Do they go through block?

Yes, @brandonv516 they are unblockable.

Inarre

Yes. Good points. Excellent post

BalticBlues

Waffennacht wrote: »

Nice work on a sneaky nerf Warden and need sorc thread.
"Just take it away" that's just horrid.

Exactly. In PvP, the Magicka Warden class already is a joke outside of playing as Tank. Not only the DPS is a joke, not having a useful finisher (the bear also is a joke) just sucks. The Cliffracer is the only DPS thing that is useful. Make it dodgeable - and then just delete the class from PvP...

Strider__Roshin

BalticBlues wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Nice work on a sneaky nerf Warden and need sorc thread.
"Just take it away" that's just horrid.

Exactly. In PvP, the Magicka Warden class already is a joke outside of playing as Tank. Not only the DPS is a joke, not having a useful finisher (the bear also is a joke) just sucks. The Cliffracer is the only DPS thing that is useful. Make it dodgeable - and then just delete the class from PvP...

Magicka Warden is probably the strongest PvP class in the game right now. Your concerns have no merit.

wazzz56

How are people actually defending bird spamming? If that is what you need to kill people, well gg i guess