How to deal with Argonians ?

The_Protagonist

Sixty5 wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Agent orange and Napalm

Apply liberally to black marsh.
Without the hist the Argonians are useless.

Define "useless", please.

Without the hist the Argonians would be mindless soulless lizards.

Ah, implementing christianity/islam/judaism in ESO.
FYI, everything in ESO/TES have a soul. Please, delete system32

If you go to Stormhold in Shadowfen and run from the wayshrine to the trade areas you hear a person expositing that Argonians get their soul from the Hist.

Without the Hist Argonian eggs won't hatch. If the Hist never uplifted their species they'd be nothing more than dumb lizards. These are facts.

Also telling someone to brick their computer is rather rude.

And believing in what every in game racist tells you is rather naive, at least.

Do you deny that without the Hist the Argonian race as it is would not exist?

Do you deny everything needs a parent to exist?

I can still have kids if my parents die though.

And you are sure if Hist dies, all Saxhleel will be unable to procreate? Sad.

It's literally in a quest in this game, where a dude messes with eggs connection to the Hist and basically aborts an entire generation of Argonians.

If the Hist go rip, so do the Argonians.

Are you aware that many Saxhleel generations were born in slavery, away from Hist?

Lore also states that the Hist can allow argonians to reproduce like men and Mer in their absence with some sort of weird tree magic.

And given the Hist can do all sorts of weird stuff like see across planes and create a race of sentient slaves, it's not too much of a stretch.

Point is, all real evidence in game tells us the Argonians need the Hist, otherwise they wouldn't be so uppity about people trying to mess with them.

REAL EVIDENCE?? THEN GAME?

Is this what role playing is all about?

bloodthirstyvampire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d50dLba3Tiw

ankhor8

We Saxhleel respect the Hist and trust it's guidance. listening to a lukiul speak about us is like asking clayton bigsby about ancient Kemet of the kingdom of Kush. Just because their phenotype is Saxhleel, doesn't mean they've learned about our past and present accurately.
We may produce young absent of the Hist. They will lack the blessings we have, yet they will be.
When that foolish altmer ruuvitar attempted to harm us via the mnemic egg, he was only doing significant harm to most of us. We as a whole would still live, yet the current hatchlings would likely all die. We would need to adapt, as we do well, to a system of growth with less Hist connection.
In addition, full severance is unlikely to occur. The Hist is biological and adapts, as we do. We would likely resolve the issue or find another way to connect with our progenitor.
I study from various scholars and authors. Then I take note of the similar points.

ArchMikem

Oh look, another racist joins the ranks. Dont worry though, i cant stand Elves just as much.

That one plantation slave owner in Stonefalls? Set her on fire.

Morvane

vpy wrote: »

I hate Argies to the core.
While I was questing in Rivenspire, Darien showed me a novel way to handle argies.
What do you think ?

As Dunmer I'm totally agree with

Shardan4968

Sixty5 wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Agent orange and Napalm

Apply liberally to black marsh.
Without the hist the Argonians are useless.

Define "useless", please.

Without the hist the Argonians would be mindless soulless lizards.

Ah, implementing christianity/islam/judaism in ESO.
FYI, everything in ESO/TES have a soul. Please, delete system32

If you go to Stormhold in Shadowfen and run from the wayshrine to the trade areas you hear a person expositing that Argonians get their soul from the Hist.

Without the Hist Argonian eggs won't hatch. If the Hist never uplifted their species they'd be nothing more than dumb lizards. These are facts.

Also telling someone to brick their computer is rather rude.

And believing in what every in game racist tells you is rather naive, at least.

Do you deny that without the Hist the Argonian race as it is would not exist?

Do you deny everything needs a parent to exist?

I can still have kids if my parents die though.

And you are sure if Hist dies, all Saxhleel will be unable to procreate? Sad.

It's literally in a quest in this game, where a dude messes with eggs connection to the Hist and basically aborts an entire generation of Argonians.

If the Hist go rip, so do the Argonians.

Are you aware that many Saxhleel generations were born in slavery, away from Hist?

Lore also states that the Hist can allow argonians to reproduce like men and Mer in their absence with some sort of weird tree magic.

And given the Hist can do all sorts of weird stuff like see across planes and create a race of sentient slaves, it's not too much of a stretch.

Point is, all real evidence in game tells us the Argonians need the Hist, otherwise they wouldn't be so uppity about people trying to mess with them.

Well, what about Khajits without their Moons? What about Tamriel without Dragonfires (before Martin Septim),. Try to [snip] with ancient trees guarded by mighty Argonians who can get much stronger If the Hist wishes so. Remember that your favourite race would also be useless, If there was no Dragonborn who would stop Alduin before he eat whole world and reset the time. No one would exist without this one hero, which doesn't mean [snip], just like Argonian connection to the Hist.

[Edited to remove profanity]

dodgehopper_ESO

Enslaved wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Agent orange and Napalm

Apply liberally to black marsh.
Without the hist the Argonians are useless.

Define "useless", please.

Without the hist the Argonians would be mindless soulless lizards.

Ah, implementing christianity/islam/judaism in ESO.
FYI, everything in ESO/TES have a soul. Please, delete system32

Way too much assumption in those statements with nothing backing it. We get it - you are taking the brave stand that you hate all the religions based on Judaism in some way shape or form. You may as well lump in JW's, Mormons and Rasta while you're at it.

Also to be fair the content of conversation in game would be reason for some to take this stance. Argonians without the Hist lack a 'hist soul' but I do not think this makes them soul-less. It simply means they lack the hist connection. It would be like being an unjoined Trill in Star Trek. Within the realm of Hist-worshipping argonians an Argonian with no ties to the Hist is looked upon as a strange hollow being, that much actually is true. Play the game and pay attention you might notice it in Shadowfen. Those non-histy argonians btw can still fill a soul gem just fine.

dodgehopper_ESO

Sixty5 wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Agent orange and Napalm

Apply liberally to black marsh.
Without the hist the Argonians are useless.

Define "useless", please.

Without the hist the Argonians would be mindless soulless lizards.

Ah, implementing christianity/islam/judaism in ESO.
FYI, everything in ESO/TES have a soul. Please, delete system32

If you go to Stormhold in Shadowfen and run from the wayshrine to the trade areas you hear a person expositing that Argonians get their soul from the Hist.

Without the Hist Argonian eggs won't hatch. If the Hist never uplifted their species they'd be nothing more than dumb lizards. These are facts.

Also telling someone to brick their computer is rather rude.

And believing in what every in game racist tells you is rather naive, at least.

Do you deny that without the Hist the Argonian race as it is would not exist?

Do you deny everything needs a parent to exist?

I can still have kids if my parents die though.

And you are sure if Hist dies, all Saxhleel will be unable to procreate? Sad.

It's literally in a quest in this game, where a dude messes with eggs connection to the Hist and basically aborts an entire generation of Argonians.

If the Hist go rip, so do the Argonians.

I believe this is a misunderstanding. The issue is more to do with Argonian immortality. Their souls get recycled through the trees, at least that's how they look at it. I'm not convinced that Argonians capacity to procreate is determined by the Hist. I believe it is more a symbiotic relationship between the two. In many ways to use a Star Trek example again I think the Hist are a lot like the Founders/Changelings who produced a slave race the Jem Hadar who would be comparable to the Saxhleel in elder scrolls. I didn't dig up references but I'm fairly certain you are debunked through the storyline of ESO and in previous games.

dodgehopper_ESO

Morvane wrote: »

vpy wrote: »

I hate Argies to the core.
While I was questing in Rivenspire, Darien showed me a novel way to handle argies.
What do you think ?

As Dunmer I'm totally agree with

This is why Ebonheart Pact is going to be a big failure.

geonsocal

Girl_Number8

Loc2262 wrote: »

The racial hatred is strong in some players in this community. I sincerely hope this does not reflect your real-life stance on foreign cultures.

They're having fun but this response is very beautiful, thank you

HatchetHaro

RABIDxWOLVERINE

Seems Darien has the right idea.

Jusey1

Sixty5 wrote: »

If you go to Stormhold in Shadowfen and run from the wayshrine to the trade areas you hear a person expositing that Argonians get their soul from the Hist.

Without the Hist Argonian eggs won't hatch. If the Hist never uplifted their species they'd be nothing more than dumb lizards. These are facts.

Also telling someone to brick their computer is rather rude.

You are correct, partial... We do not know enough about Argonians' culture as a whole but it is quite possible for them to have souls on their own if they weren't connected to the Hist, and in truth, the Hist doesn't create souls to begin with but rather recycle souls. When an Argonian dies, their soul is taken back to the Hist to be given to a new hatchling, and starting a new life. You can, essentially, be immortal by being connected with the Hist. So, NEW souls for Argonians have to come from somewhere and possibly it can happen if an Argonian pair distance themselves from the Hist enough to allow for their own self-reproduction, and for all we know... This does happen in Black Marsh and the eggs used at Hist trees are just to reborn the fallen Argonians.

Proof that Argonians could potentially self-reproduce on their own is found in the other species of the lizards... The main Argonians we're use to are actually Saxheel in their tongue, and they are very much related to other reptilian races found within the swamps of Black Marsh, this including the Lamias, which these sub-versions of Argonians are completely able to self-reproduce and are disconnected from the Hist trees, as far as we know.

So, by theory, yes. Argonians could live without the Hist trees and could still find a new power within themselves without the Hist trees, form new lives, a new Black Marsh, and so on. However, they don't. The Hist is simply their religion and they follow it happily as a culture, as a government just like how every other race has their own religion. In truth, every race relies on their religion for power most of the time anyways. Think about how much weaker the Dunmer became once they lost Vivec and the crap that has fallen to them since? Think how much weaker Nords would be if they lost their faith and religion in Shor and Sovngarde? How about the Imperials and their Divines? Without their faith in Akatosh, Mehrunes Dagon would've won the Oblivion Crisis, right?

So the argument of removing the Hist making Argonians "useless" can honestly be applied to all other races because religion is a key part in society and to each person as a whole. Removing any religion will have a huge negative effect on any race...

Enslaved

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Agent orange and Napalm

Apply liberally to black marsh.
Without the hist the Argonians are useless.

Define "useless", please.

Without the hist the Argonians would be mindless soulless lizards.

Ah, implementing christianity/islam/judaism in ESO.
FYI, everything in ESO/TES have a soul. Please, delete system32

Way too much assumption in those statements with nothing backing it. We get it - you are taking the brave stand that you hate all the religions based on Judaism in some way shape or form. You may as well lump in JW's, Mormons and Rasta while you're at it.

Also to be fair the content of conversation in game would be reason for some to take this stance. Argonians without the Hist lack a 'hist soul' but I do not think this makes them soul-less. It simply means they lack the hist connection. It would be like being an unjoined Trill in Star Trek. Within the realm of Hist-worshipping argonians an Argonian with no ties to the Hist is looked upon as a strange hollow being, that much actually is true. Play the game and pay attention you might notice it in Shadowfen. Those non-histy argonians btw can still fill a soul gem just fine.

wat

Stovahkiin

Anyone who thinks Argonians suck can come fight my main on world 2, north of Edgeville :x

The_Smilemeister

Cloudless

Enslaved wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Agent orange and Napalm

Apply liberally to black marsh.
Without the hist the Argonians are useless.

Define "useless", please.

Without the hist the Argonians would be mindless soulless lizards.

Ah, implementing christianity/islam/judaism in ESO.
FYI, everything in ESO/TES have a soul. Please, delete system32

If you go to Stormhold in Shadowfen and run from the wayshrine to the trade areas you hear a person expositing that Argonians get their soul from the Hist.

Without the Hist Argonian eggs won't hatch. If the Hist never uplifted their species they'd be nothing more than dumb lizards. These are facts.

Also telling someone to brick their computer is rather rude.

And believing in what every in game racist tells you is rather naive, at least.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Argonian

Appearance and Physiology

Argonians believe that their souls were given to them by the Hist – according to the Lizard Folk, there was nothing before the Hist. Because of this the souls of the Saxhleel contain unique qualities that sets them apart from the souls of men and mer. Most Argonians are able to feel the presence of the Hist in their minds at all times, but the further they travel from Black Marsh the weaker the connection gets.

Was said in game racist, by any chance, a Saxhleel himself?

Tommy_The_Gun

Shardan4968 wrote: »

What is your guys problem? Argonians did nothing wrong, but you hate them anyway. Tell me why? I want to know!

Dry-skins are just jealous. That all...

Morvane

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Morvane wrote: »

vpy wrote: »

I hate Argies to the core.
While I was questing in Rivenspire, Darien showed me a novel way to handle argies.
What do you think ?

As Dunmer I'm totally agree with

This is why Ebonheart Pact is going to be a big failure.

thats why my char emigrated to DC from the 1st day of creation

RABIDxWOLVERINE

Vimora wrote: »

Racist in-game? Very likely racist in real life, too.

I have legitimate issues with all 3 races of elves but in no way does that translate to being racist IRL.

Issues I have with elven races:
Dark Elf - Worship the Daedra and hold other races as slaves. Their entire culture is ***!

High Elf - Arrogant and elitist not to mention most are apart of the Thalmor.

Wood Elf - Cannibalism, need I go on?

With that being said there are instances where the elven races surprise me and when they do I judge them by their actions and character rather than by their race.

Have yet to meet a decent High Elf though, and I'm not holding my breath...

Tommy_The_Gun

RABIDxWOLVERINE wrote: »

Issues I have with elven races:
Dark Elf - Worship the Daedra and hold other races as slaves. Their entire culture is ***!

High Elf - Arrogant and elitist not to mention most are apart of the Thalmor.

Wood Elf - Cannibalism, need I go on?

Yep.. pretty much. Like 70 - 80% of NPCs that you meet in-game only confirms this stereotype.
If I would totally ignore physical appearance of any race and judge only by lore & each race culture, my favourite races would be:
1. Argonian
2. Orc
3. Nord
4. Khajit
5. Redguard / Breton (same spot on the list).

Publius_Scipio

dodgehopper_ESO

RABIDxWOLVERINE wrote: »

Vimora wrote: »

Racist in-game? Very likely racist in real life, too.

I have legitimate issues with all 3 races of elves but in no way does that translate to being racist IRL.

Issues I have with elven races:
Dark Elf - Worship the Daedra and hold other races as slaves. Their entire culture is ***!

High Elf - Arrogant and elitist not to mention most are apart of the Thalmor.

Wood Elf - Cannibalism, need I go on?

With that being said there are instances where the elven races surprise me and when they do I judge them by their actions and character rather than by their race.

Have yet to meet a decent High Elf though, and I'm not holding my breath...

I liked Sinderion in the Oblivion game (as well as Skyrim). I also found the grouchy Altmer, Nurelion, in Skyrim seeking the White phial to be alright. Perhaps Altmer Alchemists just happen to be decent folks. Neramo might be power hungry but seems to be going down a better path and might be a better person after he ages a little. At the very least Neramo is a lot better individual than most of the people you run across around him. Aicantar and Calcelmo in Skyrim likewise seem alright. In the case of Calcelmo he doesn't appear to hold ill will toward the other people's of Tamriel and is primarily interested in Faleen and of course Dwemer magic.

All of that being said I completely agree with the sentiments you describe. Dunmer are a disgusting lot and I feel badly for Wulfharth that he failed to deal permanently with them. The Dunmer ARE however very interesting and liven up the story no matter how you look at it. I love that they are in the series. Altmer unfortunately need more characterization. About all we know of them in the series is that they are extremely snotty, self-absorbed, and powerful magically as a race. I'd love to see more in this game that makes them a bit more likeable. Wood elves are very interesting like Dunmer but they are likewise disgusting in habit with their meat-eating proclivities and cannibalism. The horrid flatulence that must waft from Bosmer homes must be absolutely atrocious. That being said they are often a very open and cheery people with an alien disposition (something I've noted all the elves seem to have).

As I've stated elsewhere before I'm a huge fan of Argonians. I would love to see ZoS dive more deeply into their culture or even make a full stand alone game for them.

Jim_Pipp

I don't have troll poop but I got the boots

SpearDusk

Argonians are useful in reducing the number of flies

Yarlenzey

What an interesting discussion!
No, wait, I was wrong.

Enslaved

Cloudless wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Agent orange and Napalm

Apply liberally to black marsh.
Without the hist the Argonians are useless.

Define "useless", please.

Without the hist the Argonians would be mindless soulless lizards.

Ah, implementing christianity/islam/judaism in ESO.
FYI, everything in ESO/TES have a soul. Please, delete system32

If you go to Stormhold in Shadowfen and run from the wayshrine to the trade areas you hear a person expositing that Argonians get their soul from the Hist.

Without the Hist Argonian eggs won't hatch. If the Hist never uplifted their species they'd be nothing more than dumb lizards. These are facts.

Also telling someone to brick their computer is rather rude.

And believing in what every in game racist tells you is rather naive, at least.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Argonian

Appearance and Physiology

Argonians believe that their souls were given to them by the Hist – according to the Lizard Folk, there was nothing before the Hist. Because of this the souls of the Saxhleel contain unique qualities that sets them apart from the souls of men and mer. Most Argonians are able to feel the presence of the Hist in their minds at all times, but the further they travel from Black Marsh the weaker the connection gets.

Was said in game racist, by any chance, a Saxhleel himself?

PPl irl believe a talking flaming bush created them at some point. So much about believing part.

Yes, Saxhleel have deep connection with a Hist. And yet so many Saxhleel were born in slavery, far away from Hist. Many born in slavery claim never to hear or even feel Hist.

Cadbury

The_Smilemeister

Vimora wrote: »

Racist in-game? Very likely racist in real life, too.

I'll have you know that I'm not racist. I hate everyone equally.