Innate Axiom bugged

Dragath

still not fixed?

Mystrius_Archaion

Dragath wrote: »

still not fixed?

Nope. The problem is not so much the set but all those skills not being categorized properly. They shouldn't be categorized differently anyway.
They don't know how they screwed it up to begin with and therefore they don't know how to fix it. They're unlikely to learn given their level of competency(more towards incompetent) to be able to fix it.

Sorry, but the truth hurts. There are plenty of examples of simple mechanics other games perfected, that are not protected by copyright since many games do the same thing and all based on older code or generic code, that they have not used for this game to make those mechanics work right.
It's a case of them repeating history, meaning relearning all the early game development lessons form decades ago, smply because they ignored history in the first place.

Grimlok_S

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Would be great if this was fixed in the next update.

delarb14_ESO

Any news on when this will be fixed?

eso_lags

great was running this on my magblade.. oh speaking of #FIX IMAGE PLZ

Dragath

i'm going to bump this until its fixed.

ZOS_KNowak

In Update 17, we've updated all Class abilities to make sure they are properly categorized. Item Sets like Innate Axiom or Overwhelming Surge should interact with these abilities correctly.

Note that in Innate Axiom's case, it only increases Spell and Weapon Damage of Class abilities. Class abilities that do not scale with either of these stats (such as Impaling Shards which scales with your Max Health, or Lotus Flower which scales with your Level) will not see any benefit from this Item Set.

After Update 17 hits the PTS realm, please make a new thread in the PTS forum if you find any abilities still not interacting with these Item Sets correctly and we'll take a second look.

zParallaxz

ZOS_KNowak wrote: »

In Update 17, we've updated all Class abilities to make sure they are properly categorized. Item Sets like Innate Axiom or Overwhelming Surge should interact with these abilities correctly.

Note that in Innate Axiom's case, it only increases Spell and Weapon Damage of Class abilities. Class abilities that do not scale with either of these stats (such as Impaling Shards which scales with your Max Health, or Lotus Flower which scales with your Level) will not see any benefit from this Item Set.

After Update 17 hits the PTS realm, please make a new thread in the PTS forum if you find any abilities still not interacting with these Item Sets correctly and we'll take a second look.

We are mainly talking about how it won’t buff secondary skills such as how it buffs flame lash but not power lash and won’t buff spectral bow proc from merciless resolve.

Mystrius_Archaion

ZOS_KNowak wrote: »

In Update 17, we've updated all Class abilities to make sure they are properly categorized. Item Sets like Innate Axiom or Overwhelming Surge should interact with these abilities correctly.

Note that in Innate Axiom's case, it only increases Spell and Weapon Damage of Class abilities. Class abilities that do not scale with either of these stats (such as Impaling Shards which scales with your Max Health, or Lotus Flower which scales with your Level) will not see any benefit from this Item Set.

After Update 17 hits the PTS realm, please make a new thread in the PTS forum if you find any abilities still not interacting with these Item Sets correctly and we'll take a second look.

Wow! My above post was both right and wrong. I'm very impressed they have a supposed fix for this coming, but I'll give kudos when I see it actually work.

Mystrius_Archaion

zParallaxz wrote: »

ZOS_KNowak wrote: »

In Update 17, we've updated all Class abilities to make sure they are properly categorized. Item Sets like Innate Axiom or Overwhelming Surge should interact with these abilities correctly.

Note that in Innate Axiom's case, it only increases Spell and Weapon Damage of Class abilities. Class abilities that do not scale with either of these stats (such as Impaling Shards which scales with your Max Health, or Lotus Flower which scales with your Level) will not see any benefit from this Item Set.

After Update 17 hits the PTS realm, please make a new thread in the PTS forum if you find any abilities still not interacting with these Item Sets correctly and we'll take a second look.

We are mainly talking about how it won’t buff secondary skills such as how it buffs flame lash but not power lash and won’t buff spectral bow proc from merciless resolve.

Yeah, they know that. Those are what they are fixing, but they always have to provide the extra information for those who assume every skill is buffed by it even when it should not be. Sadly, it also confuses people who assume they are talking about only the extra information situations and can't separate 2 different points/thoughts, such as yourself.
Welcome to the win/lose too much/too little information balance of public relations, because not everybody is as astute as others.

Mystrius_Archaion

disconnected and double posted when reconnected. Fun forum bugs.

Mystrius_Archaion

ZOS_KNowak wrote: »

In Update 17, we've updated all Class abilities to make sure they are properly categorized. Item Sets like Innate Axiom or Overwhelming Surge should interact with these abilities correctly.

Note that in Innate Axiom's case, it only increases Spell and Weapon Damage of Class abilities. Class abilities that do not scale with either of these stats (such as Impaling Shards which scales with your Max Health, or Lotus Flower which scales with your Level) will not see any benefit from this Item Set.

I hope this also fixes shields like Hardened Ward which still do not scale with spell damage also but don't say anything of the sort. That's not intuitive or fair to have a stat not affect a skill that players will undoubtedly think it should without stating some reason for that in the tooltip.

zParallaxz

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

ZOS_KNowak wrote: »

In Update 17, we've updated all Class abilities to make sure they are properly categorized. Item Sets like Innate Axiom or Overwhelming Surge should interact with these abilities correctly.

Note that in Innate Axiom's case, it only increases Spell and Weapon Damage of Class abilities. Class abilities that do not scale with either of these stats (such as Impaling Shards which scales with your Max Health, or Lotus Flower which scales with your Level) will not see any benefit from this Item Set.

I hope this also fixes shields like Hardened Ward which still do not scale with spell damage also but don't say anything of the sort. That's not intuitive or fair to have a stat not affect a skill that players will undoubtedly think it should without stating some reason for that in the tooltip.

Lol spell damage doesn’t scale with shields lol only max mag does.

Asgari

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

ZOS_KNowak wrote: »

In Update 17, we've updated all Class abilities to make sure they are properly categorized. Item Sets like Innate Axiom or Overwhelming Surge should interact with these abilities correctly.

Note that in Innate Axiom's case, it only increases Spell and Weapon Damage of Class abilities. Class abilities that do not scale with either of these stats (such as Impaling Shards which scales with your Max Health, or Lotus Flower which scales with your Level) will not see any benefit from this Item Set.

I hope this also fixes shields like Hardened Ward which still do not scale with spell damage also but don't say anything of the sort. That's not intuitive or fair to have a stat not affect a skill that players will undoubtedly think it should without stating some reason for that in the tooltip.

What? Please enlighten me how spell damage and shields working together makes any sense? I think my brain just melted trying to figure this out.

Mystrius_Archaion

zParallaxz wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

ZOS_KNowak wrote: »

In Update 17, we've updated all Class abilities to make sure they are properly categorized. Item Sets like Innate Axiom or Overwhelming Surge should interact with these abilities correctly.

Note that in Innate Axiom's case, it only increases Spell and Weapon Damage of Class abilities. Class abilities that do not scale with either of these stats (such as Impaling Shards which scales with your Max Health, or Lotus Flower which scales with your Level) will not see any benefit from this Item Set.

I hope this also fixes shields like Hardened Ward which still do not scale with spell damage also but don't say anything of the sort. That's not intuitive or fair to have a stat not affect a skill that players will undoubtedly think it should without stating some reason for that in the tooltip.

Lol spell damage doesn’t scale with shields lol only max mag does.

But they don't say they don't scale for any reason at all, which is something you must figure out by testing or just noticing "hey, I buffed my stats but this didn't get stronger", which is not how skills and gameplay are supposed to work.
Mechanics of the skills are supposed to be transparent and obvious, not hidden puzzles to figure out after you make gold gear and find out it is useless which is the whole point of this thread.

Mystrius_Archaion

Asgari wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

ZOS_KNowak wrote: »

In Update 17, we've updated all Class abilities to make sure they are properly categorized. Item Sets like Innate Axiom or Overwhelming Surge should interact with these abilities correctly.

Note that in Innate Axiom's case, it only increases Spell and Weapon Damage of Class abilities. Class abilities that do not scale with either of these stats (such as Impaling Shards which scales with your Max Health, or Lotus Flower which scales with your Level) will not see any benefit from this Item Set.

I hope this also fixes shields like Hardened Ward which still do not scale with spell damage also but don't say anything of the sort. That's not intuitive or fair to have a stat not affect a skill that players will undoubtedly think it should without stating some reason for that in the tooltip.

What? Please enlighten me how spell damage and shields working together makes any sense? I think my brain just melted trying to figure this out.

Because spell "damage" affects almost all the same things max magicka does for skills, including "healing".

Honestly, why does max magicka, which allows you to cast more, affect the strength of those skills also in a self-buffing loop? That seems like a cheat where characters don't even need spell damage then and can just build for max magicka only, reducing build variety and challenge. Also apparently, max magicka supposedly buffs staff damage even, which doesn't make sense since it doesn't use magicka and instead regens it. How much does max magicka buff staff damage anyway? Anybody know?

They should either make spell damage buff shields like it buffs healing or make max magicka only buff your magicka total so that you are forced to spread your stat points between spell damage and magicka recovery and ax magicka more, instead of just staking the one.
Either that or they need t put a tooltip note saying "not affected by spell damage" for every shield that players assume(especially newer players, or those like me that were uninformed for over a year of playing) would be buffed by spell damage like other magicka abilities.

Waffennacht

Took you over a year to find information that's readily available on the forums?

Mystrius_Archaion

Waffennacht wrote: »

Took you over a year to find information that's readily available on the forums?

Yes, duh! You have to be looking for it to find it.
That's like saying "it took you over a year to buy a red car because you just changed your favorite color yesterday?! Oh my god! You should have had a red car before when you didn't know you wanted one!".

The tooltips in the game don't state ANYWHERE that "pets and shields are not affected by spell damage/weapon damage" while apparently everything else, including damage and healing and even the basic light and heavy attacks benefit from both max stat and damage numbers. FYI, max magicka in game on the character sheet says "stave weapon damage is affected by max magicka" when supposedly the forums say it isn't.
So who the hell is right?

We just want a little clarity and an answer of whether that is a bug that can be fixed, a bug that can't be fixed, intended for a good reason, intended for a stupid reason or just "they don't care any which way".
All you "it's common knowledge" people are oblivious to the fact that you had to learn this information somehow because you don't see it front and center where it should be in game either. It's the "old man syndrome" where you say all the time "common knowledge isn't very common anymore" without realizing that everything you know migrates into the "common knowledge category" even if it took you years to learn it. Ask anybody younger than 20 what a "party line" is or ask anybody over 80 what an "hdmi cable" is. Both would be in the dark on what one group would consider common knowledge.

SirCritical

thatlaurachick wrote: »

I just crafted Innate Axiom for my Warden, and this explains why my calculations aren't matching CombatMetrics.

That signature

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

zParallaxz wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

ZOS_KNowak wrote: »

In Update 17, we've updated all Class abilities to make sure they are properly categorized. Item Sets like Innate Axiom or Overwhelming Surge should interact with these abilities correctly.

Note that in Innate Axiom's case, it only increases Spell and Weapon Damage of Class abilities. Class abilities that do not scale with either of these stats (such as Impaling Shards which scales with your Max Health, or Lotus Flower which scales with your Level) will not see any benefit from this Item Set.

I hope this also fixes shields like Hardened Ward which still do not scale with spell damage also but don't say anything of the sort. That's not intuitive or fair to have a stat not affect a skill that players will undoubtedly think it should without stating some reason for that in the tooltip.

Lol spell damage doesn’t scale with shields lol only max mag does.

Asgari wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

ZOS_KNowak wrote: »

In Update 17, we've updated all Class abilities to make sure they are properly categorized. Item Sets like Innate Axiom or Overwhelming Surge should interact with these abilities correctly.

Note that in Innate Axiom's case, it only increases Spell and Weapon Damage of Class abilities. Class abilities that do not scale with either of these stats (such as Impaling Shards which scales with your Max Health, or Lotus Flower which scales with your Level) will not see any benefit from this Item Set.

I hope this also fixes shields like Hardened Ward which still do not scale with spell damage also but don't say anything of the sort. That's not intuitive or fair to have a stat not affect a skill that players will undoubtedly think it should without stating some reason for that in the tooltip.

What? Please enlighten me how spell damage and shields working together makes any sense? I think my brain just melted trying to figure this out.

the only 2 wards that use max magic exclusively are Conjured Ward and morphs(~36% max magic) and Annulment and morphs( ~34% of your max magic) all other shields use health (1. Hardened Armor , 2. Obsidian Shield and morphs, 3. Sun Shield and morphs, 4. Crystallized Shield and morphs{not a true ward though, only absorbs the projectiles damage but scales with 150% of your health}, 5. Shielded Assault {~12.5% max health}, 6. Bone Shield and morphs, 7. Absorb Magic {again, not a true ward but scales with 50% of max health}, 8. the shield you get from heavy attacking with a frost staff from the passive "Tri Focus", ~8% max health), also use spell damage (Steadfast Ward and morphs) or use max stamina and weapon damage(the shield from brawler)

check here- http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoSkills, you can see what i am saying true.

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Took you over a year to find information that's readily available on the forums?

Yes, duh! You have to be looking for it to find it.
That's like saying "it took you over a year to buy a red car because you just changed your favorite color yesterday?! Oh my god! You should have had a red car before when you didn't know you wanted one!".

The tooltips in the game don't state ANYWHERE that "pets and shields are not affected by spell damage/weapon damage" while apparently everything else, including damage and healing and even the basic light and heavy attacks benefit from both max stat and damage numbers. FYI, max magicka in game on the character sheet says "stave weapon damage is affected by max magicka" when supposedly the forums say it isn't.
So who the hell is right?
.

light and heavy attacks are at a 40 to 1 ratio, max magic to spell damage.

TheMystid

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

ZOS_KNowak wrote: »

In Update 17, we've updated all Class abilities to make sure they are properly categorized. Item Sets like Innate Axiom or Overwhelming Surge should interact with these abilities correctly.

Note that in Innate Axiom's case, it only increases Spell and Weapon Damage of Class abilities. Class abilities that do not scale with either of these stats (such as Impaling Shards which scales with your Max Health, or Lotus Flower which scales with your Level) will not see any benefit from this Item Set.

I hope this also fixes shields like Hardened Ward which still do not scale with spell damage also but don't say anything of the sort. That's not intuitive or fair to have a stat not affect a skill that players will undoubtedly think it should without stating some reason for that in the tooltip.

Lol spell damage doesn’t scale with shields lol only max mag does.

But they don't say they don't scale for any reason at all, which is something you must figure out by testing or just noticing "hey, I buffed my stats but this didn't get stronger", which is not how skills and gameplay are supposed to work.
Mechanics of the skills are supposed to be transparent and obvious, not hidden puzzles to figure out after you make gold gear and find out it is useless which is the whole point of this thread.

Welcome to the ESO!

BrightflameMDV

So, is this set bugged for mag templars? I read somewhere that it was only working for the first tick of puncturing sweep and jesus beam.
Anyways, we should expect a fix in Update 17 then, right?

cazlonb16_ESO

Tested this with the current patch ( PC 3.3.8 ) on a MagPlar. The bonus seems to work on all magicka based morphs you would expect it to and on all ticks of Vampire's Bane, Jesus Beam and Sweeps.

Notes: I did not test stamina morphs or ultimates and I only checked if the skills get boosted, not when and how the boost is applied, so there might the usual problems with additive vs. multiplicative, ignoring certain buffs/debuffs aso. Testing that would require substantially more effort and frankly I cba.

zParallaxz

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Tested this with the current patch ( PC 3.3.8 ) on a MagPlar. The bonus seems to work on all magicka based morphs you would expect it to and on all ticks of Vampire's Bane, Jesus Beam and Sweeps.

Notes: I did not test stamina morphs or ultimates and I only checked if the skills get boosted, not when and how the boost is applied, so there might the usual problems with additive vs. multiplicative, ignoring certain buffs/debuffs aso. Testing that would require substantially more effort and frankly I cba.

The bug mostly came from secondary skills such as power lash and Assassins will, but I don’t play the game anymore so idc.