Suggestion: Separate Imperial City PVP

Woodenplank

A quite simple proposal.

Separate the PVP queues/zoning for Imperial City and overland Cyrodiil. That way people who are just interested in farming Tel Vars/small-scale-City-PVP can jump right into the sewers, and the Campaign population slots and running around Cyrodiil can be reserved for people wanting to do combat in Cyrodiil.

Win-Win
Quicker farming for Imperial City guys.
More focused PVPers for Cyrodiil guys.


EDIT:
It seems some people misunderstood my suggestion. In spite of my description; I must reiterate: I am not proposing to make Imperial City Non-PVP - I am proposing to have players queue for EITHER overland Cyrodiil, or Imperial City.
The gameplay of those respective places would remain unchanged, but people who just want to go to Imperial City (whether for PVP or PVE goals) can go there without taking Pop-slots from Overland-PVPers, and also don't have to sit through Elder Scrolls: Horse Travel simulator.

pauli133

The system is designed around forcing PvE players into PvP exposure. They aren't likely to give up on that design principle.

Ghettokid

No. Bring back the old IC without flag system so we can have those huge arena district fights back. Also change the TV drop back to the way that killing other players gives 90% of their TV.

VaranisArano

I'd be far more likely to go to the Imperial City for a bit of PVP/Tel Var farming/whatever if I didn't have to port to Chalman and ride to the sewers - and I'm lucky that my closest keep is usually in my faction's hands.

Win-Win
Less time in the Cyrodiil Riding Simulator 3000
PVPers and PVEers alike get to IC sooner = more Tel Var, more fights
Cyrodiil PVPers have less players "counted" towards pop-locked queues

Its really a matter of balancing how many players does IC bring into the Cyrodiil PVP content (good from ZOS' perspective) vs how many players does the Cyrodiil ride keep away from IC (bad from ZOS' perspective).

Betsararie

I think it's a bad idea. All we need is a transitus shrine either in the sewers or closer to the gate, but that is a minimal issue.

Separating them is just a bad idea.

Mystrius_Archaion

Woodenplank wrote: »

A quite simple proposal.

Separate the PVP queues/zoning for Imperial City and overland Cyrodiil. That way people who are just interested in farming Tel Vars/that-Molag-Bal-Runebox-thing can jump right into the sewers, and the Campaign population slots can be reserved for people wanting to do combat in Cyrodiil.

Win-Win
Quicker farming for Imperial City guys.
More focused PVPers for Cyrodiil guys.

That would make a lot of sense. I would actually make Cyrodiil population accurate on the campaigns screen and support people actually getting into the campaign they want. It would also support people skipping to the true content they want rather than having to ride their mount completely unhindered(because nobody around) for so long just to get to their goal of farming Tel Var stones and more condensed pvp.

Does pvp in Imperial City even count towards campaign leaderboards and emperorship? Or is it linked to campaigns for no good reason?

Mystrius_Archaion

pauli133 wrote: »

The system is designed around forcing PvE players into PvP exposure. They aren't likely to give up on that design principle.

How would they? The OP didn't say anything about removing pvp from Imperial City. He just said they should separate it so people don't have to queue for a campaign, adding to the count towards it being locked, just to get to another zone within that zone.

I'm not a fan of pvp here for several reasons, but I would be much more likely to do so with this suggested change just because it would be less frustrating just to get into.

Vesper_BR

Two good things that should be made into IC:

1) turn it on a open field structure, no load screens between districts, maybe only between sewers and top city.

2) an option to travel directly to IC from your home base or tamriel, without riding all way there... Maybe making one campaign IC only, that has no emperorship and an player cap of maybe like 50% OR 30% of original campaigns.

Peace.

VaranisArano

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Woodenplank wrote: »

A quite simple proposal.

Separate the PVP queues/zoning for Imperial City and overland Cyrodiil. That way people who are just interested in farming Tel Vars/that-Molag-Bal-Runebox-thing can jump right into the sewers, and the Campaign population slots can be reserved for people wanting to do combat in Cyrodiil.

Win-Win
Quicker farming for Imperial City guys.
More focused PVPers for Cyrodiil guys.

That would make a lot of sense. I would actually make Cyrodiil population accurate on the campaigns screen and support people actually getting into the campaign they want. It would also support people skipping to the true content they want rather than having to ride their mount completely unhindered(because nobody around) for so long just to get to their goal of farming Tel Var stones and more condensed pvp.

Does pvp in Imperial City even count towards campaign leaderboards and emperorship? Or is it linked to campaigns for no good reason?

You can get AP for capturing the flags in districts, so I assume it counts towards your personal AP score, but I've never actually tested that. It would be a terrible way to gain AP for a leaderboard or emperorship push compared to the methods you get AP in Cyrodiil, I would think. It doesn't contribute to the campaign score in any way.

VaranisArano

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

pauli133 wrote: »

The system is designed around forcing PvE players into PvP exposure. They aren't likely to give up on that design principle.

How would they? The OP didn't say anything about removing pvp from Imperial City. He just said they should separate it so people don't have to queue for a campaign, adding to the count towards it being locked, just to get to another zone within that zone.

I'm not a fan of pvp here for several reasons, but I would be much more likely to do so with this suggested change just because it would be less frustrating just to get into.

It would remove the aspect of forcing people into Cyrodiil, which ZOS is unlikely to give up, even though I suspect the hassle of the ride from the nearest keep (sometimes the gates if your alliance is having a bad day) keeps players out of the Imperial City.

Qbiken

I think the best way to get people back to IC is:

* More objectives down in the sewers that actually gives you some decent rewards (Like dailies or something)

* Make goldmats like Tempering Alloys, Dreugh Wax, Rosin buyable for tel-var. This will probably have the biggest impact.

* Make it so you need to control all the districts + all inner keeps to become emperor. The issue with this suggestion is that IC is an DLC and that would mean it would be impossible for someone not owning the IC-DLC to become emperor unless he/she has some friends with the IC-DLC.

VaranisArano

Qbiken wrote: »

I think the best way to get people back to IC is:

* More objectives down in the sewers that actually gives you some decent rewards (Like dailies or something)

* Make goldmats like Tempering Alloys, Dreugh Wax, Rosin buyable for tel-var. This will probably have the biggest impact.

* Make it so you need to control all the districts + all inner keeps to become emperor. The issue with this suggestion is that IC is an DLC and that would mean it would be impossible for someone not owning the IC-DLC to become emperor unless he/she has some friends with the IC-DLC.

The other issue with involving IC in a emperorship is that is basically means you zerg up and wipe the districts, with an extra group of friends when it comes time to make your emp push, and since they are in different zones entirely, you can't easily communicate between them except through whispers. It gets underhanded really quickly, and as someone who's helped crown and dethrone emperors on PC/NA Vivec and Shor, an emperor push is already complicated enough if you have even a little opposition on the map. It also takes a portion of the emperorship push or dethrone out of the hands of the majority of players in Cyrodiil and hands it to a small fraction of players in IC, which is a problem.

Woodenplank

Vesper_BR wrote: »

Two good things that should be made into IC:

1) turn it on a open field structure, no load screens between districts, maybe only between sewers and top city.

2) an option to travel directly to IC from your home base or tamriel, without riding all way there... Maybe making one campaign IC only, that has no emperorship and an player cap of maybe like 50% OR 30% of original campaigns.

Peace.

1. That would mean pretty bad lag I think. Have you ever tried playing Skyrim with the "Open Cities" mod? It's a huge performance hit, because the game has to consider movements, fights, rendering, etc. in the entirety of the city, rather than just dealing with a single district at a time.
2. But would IC also be open to people in other campaigns? If you're saying only a single campaign should have IC available, you're pretty much just agreeing with my suggestion?

Qbiken wrote: »

Make it so you need to control all the districts + all inner keeps to become emperor. The issue with this suggestion is that IC is an DLC and that would mean it would be impossible for someone not owning the IC-DLC to become emperor unless he/she has some friends with the IC-DLC.

I don't mean to bash, but I think this would be a horrible idea. Can you imagine the *** if emperorship was directly linked to you - or people in your alliance - having purchased a DLC? The cry of "this is pay to win" or "you can't win Cyrodiil without paying real money" would crash the forum servers.

martinhpb16_ESO

My favourite zone and its usually dead. Such a shame.

I cant see that the flags have driven traffic to IC, at all, and the rewards aren't worth going there.

Something needs to be done, I miss the great pvp we used to have in IC.

technohic

pauli133 wrote: »

The system is designed around forcing PvE players into PvP exposure. They aren't likely to give up on that design principle.

I agree here, but if IC was seperate but then only one instance, you could get a better population density in there than there is now and actually have some PvP. If people think at that point, that this will make it easier for them to farm Telvar in peace, they'd be mistaken. It would make one spot for NBs to be able to focus their hunt in, and grouping up will just mean they run into other groups eventually doing the same. .

Chrysa1is

I wish I could fast travel from the main alliance base in cyrodiil to the sewers instead of having to run miles because the keeps near our sewers aren't owned by my faction. Annoying when you get half way and you get ambushed and have to run there again.

Tasear

Imperial city is PvP with even greater risk and I would be more then willing to learn PvP if imperial city had faster travel time then 3 to 4 load screen and horse ridding....I don't often find myself willing

idk

There is zero reason the change you suggest would improve Cyrodiil.

Also, no PvP in IC then no telvar either. It was al designed around PvP being present.

Essentially it's a Win - Win for OP since it seems he'd like to farm telvar in peace and quiet.

Girl_Number8

Blanco wrote: »

I think it's a bad idea. All we need is a transitus shrine either in the sewers or closer to the gate, but that is a minimal issue.

Separating them is just a bad idea.

This problem solved.

Vizier

They need to remove players in Imperial City from being counted toward pop-cap in Cyrodiil. While they are at it ZOS should restrict campaign access to one alliance per account. Meaning as long as any PvP campaign is still going a player will only have access to that specific campaign with one alliance.

Minno

Ghettokid wrote: »

No. Bring back the old IC without flag system so we can have those huge arena district fights back. Also change the TV drop back to the way that killing other players gives 90% of their TV.

agreed on the flags. Those flags were added after we asked for a PVP update to IC since IC was changed to a mostly PVE content zone. But the reality was, the quick rez in the upper district was begining to create a cool PVP environment that allowed solo players to fight without keep-zergs and allowed them the ability to rez quickly increasing their pvp per time ratio.

Bring back quick rezes; you'll see more pvp in the upper districts.

Wreuntzylla

Ghettokid wrote: »

No. Bring back the old IC without flag system so we can have those huge arena district fights back. Also change the TV drop back to the way that killing other players gives 90% of their TV.

Lol thinking removing flags will end in zerg warfare.

You want zerg warfare in IC? Make it so that once you knock over the required number of keeps for emp, you have to take all the flags in IC before a new emp is crowned.

AhPook_Is_Here

I think it's a good idea. The whole point of it being attached to cyrodiil was because it was going to be a "darkness falls/land of the dead" thing. Well that never happened so at that point there was no reason to leave it attached, all it ends up doing by being the way it is now is cause internal faction strife about who has a raid in IC when the faction needs support out of the IC.

The traveling isn't long, important or meaningful, and making people wait in a cyrodiil queue to not play in cyrodiil is at least a questionable design decision.

kojou

Enticing rewards will always bring "farmers" to a zone. At least until they have farmed the content for all it is worth. What keeps players coming is how fun the content is.

Issues with rewards:

- The quests are not particularly rewarding.
- Willpower/Agility/Endurance are all old sets and everybody likely has the pieces they need.
- All the other sets are very niche and require Tel-Var farming + RNG bags.
- The only thing I find worth farming from there is Hakeijos.
- It would be nice if something else consumable could be purchased (i.e. tempers).
- Prices for leather/ingots/silks should be adjusted.
- Molag Bal is extremely unrewarding.

Issues with fun:

- The quests require 2 (interested) players to kill some of the bosses.
- Some of the quests are a PITA to coordinate with a group ("Did everybody click "E" on the thingy?").
- The one with the door defense is particularly annoying.
- The sewers are boring and only good for grinding if you don't have a group for the top and getting skyshards.
- Taking the flags only provides Tel-Var boost and spawn points with no other strategic significance.

Making it a separate zone that you can access directly is only part of the problem. What would be interesting is if they made it its own "campaign" with its own rewards. They could put in a scoring system based on holding district flags and have a weekly reward mail and a leader board the same as the regular campaign.

Ghettokid

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Ghettokid wrote: »

No. Bring back the old IC without flag system so we can have those huge arena district fights back. Also change the TV drop back to the way that killing other players gives 90% of their TV.

Lol thinking removing flags will end in zerg warfare.

You want zerg warfare in IC? Make it so that once you knock over the required number of keeps for emp, you have to take all the flags in IC before a new emp is crowned.

Yes. Yes it will because people from any alliance can quick rez back to district.

But I also like your idea. Anyway something needs to be changed cause IC is dead atm.

Woodenplank

idk wrote: »

There is zero reason the change you suggest would improve Cyrodiil.

Also, no PvP in IC then no telvar either. It was al designed around PvP being present.

Essentially it's a Win - Win for OP since it seems he'd like to farm telvar in peace and quiet.

You seem to have misunderstood.

I didn't mean to say there'd be no PVP in IC. I'm saying "Enter Cyrodiil Campaign" and "Enter Imperial City" should be to distinct features. It's still the Three Banners war, but people who wanted to PVP or farm in IC, should not have to take up pop-cap in Cyrodiil, and should not have to ride/tele half the country just to get to the sewers.

I slightly edited the opening post to clarify this.

geonsocal

Ghettokid wrote: »

No. Bring back the old IC without flag system so we can have those huge arena district fights back. Also change the TV drop back to the way that killing other players gives 90% of their TV.

^^^^this^^^^ - all day, everyday...probably would never participate in another battlegrounds match, and, would most likely disappear from cyrodiil too...

everything needed for never ending AvAvA melee action would most likely end up right back to where it once was...

kargen27

idk wrote: »

There is zero reason the change you suggest would improve Cyrodiil.

Also, no PvP in IC then no telvar either. It was al designed around PvP being present.

Essentially it's a Win - Win for OP since it seems he'd like to farm telvar in peace and quiet.

The OP didn't suggest taking PvP out of Imperial City. The suggestion was for separate queues. This is actually something a lot of players have been asking for even if they do not often venture into Imperial City. It can be miserable waiting to get into Cyrodiil and then finding a good chunk of the population isn't even in Cyrodiil.

Two of the guilds I am in go either into the Sewers or Imperial City at least twice a week and usually more. They both go to the Vivec campaign and more often than not on the same nights. That can mean 30+ people taking up population for one campaign that really have nothing to do with that campaign and this from just two guilds running an event.

Would be nice if the population in the sewers and Imperial City didn't impact the population in Cyrodiil. Would probably lead to more balanced fighting occasionally

Katahdin

Ghettokid wrote: »

No. Bring back the old IC without flag system so we can have those huge arena district fights back. Also change the TV drop back to the way that killing other players gives 90% of their TV.

Changing it back will do nothing to make it more active. It was just as dead when it was like that as it is now.

There was some life in there when the change first happened, but people have gotten all they wanted out of it for the most part.

The Molag Bal fight is so unrewarding, its not even worth doing beyond one time for the achievement.

The double TV events were awesome, lots of people every where.
There needs to be more useful things purchasable with TV that does not rely on RNG BS.

It is not completely dead. I still have a guild that runs the dailies in the districts and we do see other people in there.

IMO they need to make owning the flags in IC contribute points to the overall Cyrodil score. 1 point or more per flag owned at eval or even make it on a different timer.

KRBMMO

Just discourage large groups somehow. On

Katahdin wrote: »

Ghettokid wrote: »

No. Bring back the old IC without flag system so we can have those huge arena district fights back. Also change the TV drop back to the way that killing other players gives 90% of their TV.

Changing it back will do nothing to make it more active. It was just as dead when it was like that as it is now.

There was some life in there when the change first happened, but people have gotten all they wanted out of it for the most part.

The Molag Bal fight is so unrewarding, its not even worth doing beyond one time for the achievement.

The double TV events were awesome, lots of people every where.
There needs to be more useful things purchasable with TV that does not rely on RNG BS.

It is not completely dead. I still have a guild that runs the dailies in the districts and we do see other people in there.

IMO they need to make owning the flags in IC contribute points to the overall Cyrodil score. 1 point or more per flag owned at eval or even make it on a different timer.

It is strange how you can completely control the Capital City and not be Emperor, but you can control everything except the capital and still be Emperor.

If anything controlling the Capital is how you control an Empire. Not that I'm advocating realism, just saying that in every historical empire controlling the Capital City was essential to be crowned Emperor.

VaranisArano

Well, the out-of-game reason for why its not necessary would be that Imperial City is a DLC and was not included in the original plan for Cyrodiil.

The in-game reason is that while the factions may squabble in the districts, Molag Bal and his minions have a pretty firm grip over the Imperial City itself, though you can diminish his rule over the city by following the PVE questline helping the Drake of Blades and by completing the Undaunted dungeon White Gold Tower.

And the reason that the PVPers are telling you its not necessary is that since the Imperial City is not a balanced part of combat in Cyrodiil, trying to add it on to the very Cyrodiil-centric emperor crowning and dethrones is asking for trouble in a lot of ways. Not only would it be an unneeded hassle added to the already complicated crowning or dethrone of an emperor, it would have a negative impact on the Imperial City by increasing zerging rather than competitive PVP, further restricting access through the sewer grates into Cyrodiil because camping the sewer grates would totally become a major thing, and forcing PVE and PVP players alike who don't want to deal with the zergs into the IC sewers. Imperial City would become the place that you zerg, crown, and leave. This suggestion would be detrimental to both Cyrodiil PVP and Imperial City PVP.