Shift block reduction from Glyphs into Sturdy?

IAVITNI

So I know many have suggested that they alter the way that block cost is calculated. It's a simple fix that ZoS doesn't seem to want to do. What do people think of reducing Block reduction Glyphs and increasing Sturdy?

This would require more sturdy traits, meaning less impen on pvp tanks while mitigating harm to PvE tanks.

Also, seeing as how a change in block reduction calculations has been ignored, a safe assumption would be that ZoS is afraid to mess around with the code to that extent. This change would simply require a change of values rather than rewriting code, which ZoS may be more inclined to do.

Lexxypwns

IAVITNI wrote: »

So I know many have suggested that they alter the way that block cost is calculated. It's a simple fix that ZoS doesn't seem to want to do. What do people think of reducing Block reduction Glyphs and increasing Sturdy?

This would require more sturdy traits, meaning less impen on pvp tanks while mitigating harm to PvE tanks.

Also, seeing as how a change in block reduction calculations has been ignored, a safe assumption would be that ZoS is afraid to mess around with the code to that extent. This change would simply require a change of values rather than rewriting code, which ZoS may be more inclined to do.

That's a bad idea imo, you can already get away with running a bunch of sturdy by using impregnable or transmutation or both. Now you'll be making those builds even stronger while not forcing them to sacrifice jewelry damage glyphs.

This would actually be a big buff to tanky PVP builds that aren't going all in on just troll-tanking. It will make it easier to block for prolonged periods of time without giving up damage, meaning tanky damage based builds will become even stronger than they already are. Considering that is just exacerbating the meta we currently have I can't imagine how it would be a good balance decision.

It would help eliminate the full troll tanks who are running 2x tank sets and stacking reduction glyphs, but these builds are less of an issue outside of objective based gameplay(capping flags, BGs) than the Tank-n-Spank meta we have where you just "permablock" until you've got a burst combo ready the unload and repeat imo. Even the players who play this way, and I've got 4 builds that run this way so I'm speaking from experience, are getting tired of this stale playstyle.

I like the idea of doing SOMETHING to De-incentivize perma block, but making sturdy, already one of the strongest traits in game, even stronger actually seems like its backwards.

IMO, the thief constellations need more appealing stars and passives because currently its meta for basically every build that can fit a SnB to stack shadow ward. From there we need to buff other forms of defense as well because currently there's no defensive mechanic that scales better than blocking, which is what makes it so appealing and why most people are running back bar SnB.

I think the correct method is to bring most forms of defense relatively in line with each other, with each defensive option having its owns advantages and disadvantages. As it stands now, if you want to build tanky the single best defense you can add is blocking and I think that's the root of the problem.

Minno

Lexxypwns wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

So I know many have suggested that they alter the way that block cost is calculated. It's a simple fix that ZoS doesn't seem to want to do. What do people think of reducing Block reduction Glyphs and increasing Sturdy?

This would require more sturdy traits, meaning less impen on pvp tanks while mitigating harm to PvE tanks.

Also, seeing as how a change in block reduction calculations has been ignored, a safe assumption would be that ZoS is afraid to mess around with the code to that extent. This change would simply require a change of values rather than rewriting code, which ZoS may be more inclined to do.

That's a bad idea imo, you can already get away with running a bunch of sturdy by using impregnable or transmutation or both. Now you'll be making those builds even stronger while not forcing them to sacrifice jewelry damage glyphs.

This would actually be a big buff to tanky PVP builds that aren't going all in on just troll-tanking. It will make it easier to block for prolonged periods of time without giving up damage, meaning tanky damage based builds will become even stronger than they already are. Considering that is just exacerbating the meta we currently have I can't imagine how it would be a good balance decision.

It would help eliminate the full troll tanks who are running 2x tank sets and stacking reduction glyphs, but these builds are less of an issue outside of objective based gameplay(capping flags, BGs) than the Tank-n-Spank meta we have where you just "permablock" until you've got a burst combo ready the unload and repeat imo. Even the players who play this way, and I've got 4 builds that run this way so I'm speaking from experience, are getting tired of this stale playstyle.

I like the idea of doing SOMETHING to De-incentivize perma block, but making sturdy, already one of the strongest traits in game, even stronger actually seems like its backwards.

increasing consistency against block builds is what will bring those builds down. That means access to spells that ignore block, be it through dmg or applying a CC that lets in a burst combo to actually do dmg.

They may achieve this through their changes, and we will have to test/record as the playerbase starts experimenting. ANd then have this conversation again.

But as of right now on live, there are no drawbacks to running those block builds, because the dmg you can do consistently is mitigated more so by block making them able to outlast your resource drain. and If you build for more sustain, youll lose out on dmg needed to crack them. Its a vicious cycle, one im hoping this patch will help alleviate a bit.

Lexxypwns

Minno wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

So I know many have suggested that they alter the way that block cost is calculated. It's a simple fix that ZoS doesn't seem to want to do. What do people think of reducing Block reduction Glyphs and increasing Sturdy?

This would require more sturdy traits, meaning less impen on pvp tanks while mitigating harm to PvE tanks.

Also, seeing as how a change in block reduction calculations has been ignored, a safe assumption would be that ZoS is afraid to mess around with the code to that extent. This change would simply require a change of values rather than rewriting code, which ZoS may be more inclined to do.

That's a bad idea imo, you can already get away with running a bunch of sturdy by using impregnable or transmutation or both. Now you'll be making those builds even stronger while not forcing them to sacrifice jewelry damage glyphs.

This would actually be a big buff to tanky PVP builds that aren't going all in on just troll-tanking. It will make it easier to block for prolonged periods of time without giving up damage, meaning tanky damage based builds will become even stronger than they already are. Considering that is just exacerbating the meta we currently have I can't imagine how it would be a good balance decision.

It would help eliminate the full troll tanks who are running 2x tank sets and stacking reduction glyphs, but these builds are less of an issue outside of objective based gameplay(capping flags, BGs) than the Tank-n-Spank meta we have where you just "permablock" until you've got a burst combo ready the unload and repeat imo. Even the players who play this way, and I've got 4 builds that run this way so I'm speaking from experience, are getting tired of this stale playstyle.

I like the idea of doing SOMETHING to De-incentivize perma block, but making sturdy, already one of the strongest traits in game, even stronger actually seems like its backwards.

increasing consistency against block builds is what will bring those builds down. That means access to spells that ignore block, be it through dmg or applying a CC that lets in a burst combo to actually do dmg.

They may achieve this through their changes, and we will have to test/record as the playerbase starts experimenting. ANd then have this conversation again.

But as of right now on live, there are no drawbacks to running those block builds, because the dmg you can do consistently is mitigated more so by block making them able to outlast your resource drain. and If you build for more sustain, youll lose out on dmg needed to crack them. Its a vicious cycle, one im hoping this patch will help alleviate a bit.

Exactly this, there's a diverse array of builds that can deal with people who survive through high healing(defiles), high base mitigation(penetration), shield stacking(raw damage output), kiting(snares, roots, hard CCs), etc. However, there's only a few builds that can handle someone who is blocking as their main form of defense. Until that changes block is simply too attractive not to build for on builds that can manage a SnB back bar.

Minno

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

So I know many have suggested that they alter the way that block cost is calculated. It's a simple fix that ZoS doesn't seem to want to do. What do people think of reducing Block reduction Glyphs and increasing Sturdy?

This would require more sturdy traits, meaning less impen on pvp tanks while mitigating harm to PvE tanks.

Also, seeing as how a change in block reduction calculations has been ignored, a safe assumption would be that ZoS is afraid to mess around with the code to that extent. This change would simply require a change of values rather than rewriting code, which ZoS may be more inclined to do.

That's a bad idea imo, you can already get away with running a bunch of sturdy by using impregnable or transmutation or both. Now you'll be making those builds even stronger while not forcing them to sacrifice jewelry damage glyphs.

This would actually be a big buff to tanky PVP builds that aren't going all in on just troll-tanking. It will make it easier to block for prolonged periods of time without giving up damage, meaning tanky damage based builds will become even stronger than they already are. Considering that is just exacerbating the meta we currently have I can't imagine how it would be a good balance decision.

It would help eliminate the full troll tanks who are running 2x tank sets and stacking reduction glyphs, but these builds are less of an issue outside of objective based gameplay(capping flags, BGs) than the Tank-n-Spank meta we have where you just "permablock" until you've got a burst combo ready the unload and repeat imo. Even the players who play this way, and I've got 4 builds that run this way so I'm speaking from experience, are getting tired of this stale playstyle.

I like the idea of doing SOMETHING to De-incentivize perma block, but making sturdy, already one of the strongest traits in game, even stronger actually seems like its backwards.

increasing consistency against block builds is what will bring those builds down. That means access to spells that ignore block, be it through dmg or applying a CC that lets in a burst combo to actually do dmg.

They may achieve this through their changes, and we will have to test/record as the playerbase starts experimenting. ANd then have this conversation again.

But as of right now on live, there are no drawbacks to running those block builds, because the dmg you can do consistently is mitigated more so by block making them able to outlast your resource drain. and If you build for more sustain, youll lose out on dmg needed to crack them. Its a vicious cycle, one im hoping this patch will help alleviate a bit.

Exactly this, there's a diverse array of builds that can deal with people who survive through high healing(defiles), high base mitigation(penetration), shield stacking(raw damage output), kiting(snares, roots, hard CCs), etc. However, there's only a few builds that can handle someone who is blocking as their main form of defense. Until that changes block is simply too attractive not to build for on builds that can manage a SnB back bar.

I am hopeful the increased CC that will ignore block will help lower the TTK for block builds. Even if there is no 100% success if someone to yolo on the cc attempt, at least we can attempt with some classes. On live, we cannot since most CC abilities are negated by right click. Plus, removal of shuffle, lowers the mobility of these builds and removes dodge chance which was further limiting the successes of CC abilities.

I am excited for Unstable Core becoming a DPS ability that isnt a dot whose dmg ignores block. Factor in Templar's 10% dmg on blocked targets, and we have a unique take on dealing with blocked targets and the S+B ult which currently has no counter aside from "waiting".

eso_nya

Afaik the evil permablocktanks who can burst ppl down run 7 sturdy and 3 weapondmg glyphs. u plan to make them stronger?