Anyone Else Happy About The Changes?

Vapirko

I think we’re reaching record levels of complaining to rival even the sustain changes. However, I think that things are being shaken up with the right intentions. A lot of people have been asking for these changes for a long time. Heavy armor needed to do less damage, something needed to be done about shuffle and heavy armor and eots needed a nerf. Is it perfect? No of course not. But we’re looking at moving towards medium being the damage armor and heavy being for tanks. Heavy armor should be there to absorb damage, not dish out crazy burst and retain the same mobility and dodge chance of medium. There will still be ways to use heavy damage builds but now it’s just going to toned down to a place where medium starts to make sense if damage is your focus. Imo ZOS is actually doing a decent job and I think pvp will be a lot more fun after this, and I say this as a stam user who runs both medium and heavy builds.

A few things that could be considered though:
1. As many have said the vma wpn damage stat didn’t need to be taken away. That was a straight up nerf and completely unnecessary.
2. Does heavy armor need a specific snare removal skill? No I don’t think so. Again heavy should be about absorbing damage not avoiding it. What would be helpful is to vastly reduce the number of skills in this game that apply snares.
3. And of course we need performance fixes, that should really be first before anything else.

Seriously though, come on with the complaining. ZOS has actually been more responsive as of late and implementing some changes to pts almost immediately. It seems like they’re focusing more effort on trying to interact with us and I for one really appreciate that. It’s not easy listening to thousands of people insult you day in and day out. And as far as performance issues go, I’m quite sure that no one we can interact with from ZOS has much say in what the whole team spends resources on.

Rahotu

if zos are listening,then that's because so many of us have left

Vapirko

Rahotu wrote: »

if zos are listening,then that's because so many of us have left

I’d say that’s just flat out bs. It’s well known that overall numbers are up. They’re makig tons of money. The small amount of endgame players that have left don’t do anything for their profits. So whatever they’re doing for the sake of pvp right now is to actually make it more enjoyable because I think we all know pvp doesn’t make the money.

TheDoomsdayMonster

Yes, I am thrilled about the changes...

For starters too many people were combining Heavy Armor with Shuffle and that combo is very OP; you even have a sizable Nightblade population using that at current...

I am glad that's coming to an end (I cant wait to destroy the Medium Armor wearing Shuffle users going forward)...


Same goes for EotS...

Its so wide spread because its too effective; I'm not as excited about this change though as I had already adapted to withstanding EotS's damage with my current build...

The only thing that changes as pertains that is that I can tank it even easier than before, so that makes me happy...


All in all, I think Zenimax is doing an excellent job...

I commend them for their efforts...

Biro123

I kind of think that some of these changes are the right changes, but that kind of means that some of the previous changes may not have been right (or were perhaps overdone)
I'm talking about the major evasion %chance, and the constitution and black rose nerfs.

I always worry when I see more than one nerf hit a particular thing, as it often turns out to have been overkill.

In this instance, is both losing shuffle from heavy and losing wrath too much in one go? Will it make heavy obsolete in PvP? ( I don't think anyone would want that, and I don't think anyone knows yet)

But at least they are looking at the right kind of things.

Vapirko

Biro123 wrote: »

I kind of think that some of these changes are the right changes, but that kind of means that some of the previous changes may not have been right (or were perhaps overdone)
I'm talking about the major evasion %chance, and the constitution and black rose nerfs.

I always worry when I see more than one nerf hit a particular thing, as it often turns out to have been overkill.

In this instance, is both losing shuffle from heavy and losing wrath too much in one go? Will it make heavy obsolete in PvP? ( I don't think anyone would want that, and I don't think anyone knows yet)

But at least they are looking at the right kind of things.

Good point. ZOS definitely has a history of being heavy handed. And I think that in terms of HA sustain and black rose being nerfed was too much. It ruined a great set, that was only OP in conjunction with the HA passive. Should they have rebuffed black rose? I think so. I think the wrath passive and shuffle are also necessary though, because right now heavy has equal mobility and damage to medium and that’s not ok. Medium needs to have significant advantages. However, it’s going to be a difficult change to solo players, myself included. Medium armor solo play isn’t easy. But then should solo play be easy? Idk.

Valencer

Heavy armour wasnt obsolete before it got buffed into the sky with dark brotherhood so I don't see how it could possibly become obsolete just because wrath gets removed. It's still way more potent than it ever was back then

TheDoomsdayMonster

Heavy should not become obsolete in PvP as it'll still be very good...


Heavy will still have:

1) the best innate resistances of the 3 armor types...

2) the Health Bonus passive...

3) the Healing Received Bonus passive...

4) the passive that stores Resources when you are attacked every few seconds...


So heavy will be fine and wont be underpowered in PvP...

Now the Flavor of the Month players will move away from it as they move away from anything that's no longer OP, but that's to be expected...


Talking about the changes just makes me smile...

I wear 5 Light, 1 Medium, 1 Heavy no matter what, and it is a real challenge sometimes beating a well built Heavy Armor wearing, Shuffle using, player that hits very hard, and has decent Resources...and even then I have been performing very well against these types of players.

Now that they are getting a significant nerf, what in the world are they going to do against me now that their Defenses will be reduced significantly (wether its by having to switch to Medium and keep Shuffle or by staying Heavy but lose Shuffle)...

This is gonna be fun folks...



Btw, @Vapirko

You are gonna be fine if you switch to Medium; you'll have to adjust, and that might be rough at 1st, but you'll be fine...

I am fine being a Light Armor wearing Templar running primarily solo in Cyrodiil in the current game (and I don't turtle with Sword and Board), so I gotta believe with Shuffle still being an excellent Defensive ability, you'll be able to fine your way eventually...

Jade1986

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Yes, I am thrilled about the changes...

For starters too many people were combining Heavy Armor with Shuffle and that combo is very OP; you even have a sizable Nightblade population using that at current...

I am glad that's coming to an end (I cant wait to destroy the Medium Armor wearing Shuffle users going forward)...


Same goes for EotS...

Its so wide spread because its too effective; I'm not as excited about this change though as I had already adapted to withstanding EotS's damage with my current build...

The only thing that changes as pertains that is that I can tank it even easier than before, so that makes me happy...


All in all, I think Zenimax is doing an excellent job...

I commend them for their efforts...

dafq is EotS

Biro123

Eye of the storm.
Destro ult

Morgul667

Latest changes seem to go in the right direction.

Was happy with HotR update and was surprised myself

Looks like ill be happy with next update too

Noce

White wabbit

Vapirko wrote: »

Rahotu wrote: »

if zos are listening,then that's because so many of us have left

I’d say that’s just flat out bs. It’s well known that overall numbers are up. They’re makig tons of money. The small amount of endgame players that have left don’t do anything for their profits. So whatever they’re doing for the sake of pvp right now is to actually make it more enjoyable because I think we all know pvp doesn’t make the money.

lol don't know which platform your on but numbers aren't well up

Vapirko

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Heavy should not become obsolete in PvP as it'll still be very good...


Heavy will still have:

1) the best innate resistances of the 3 armor types...

2) the Health Bonus passive...

3) the Healing Received Bonus passive...

4) the passive that stores Resources when you are attacked every few seconds...


So heavy will be fine and wont be underpowered in PvP...

Now the Flavor of the Month players will move away from it as they move away from anything that's no longer OP, but that's to be expected...


Talking about the changes just makes me smile...

I wear 5 Light, 1 Medium, 1 Heavy no matter what, and it is a real challenge sometimes beating a well built Heavy Armor wearing, Shuffle using, player that hits very hard, and has decent Resources...and even then I have been performing very well against these types of players.

Now that they are getting a significant nerf, what in the world are they going to do against me now that their Defenses will be reduced significantly (wether its by having to switch to Medium and keep Shuffle or by staying Heavy but lose Shuffle)...

This is gonna be fun folks...



Btw, @Vapirko

You are gonna be fine if you switch to Medium; you'll have to adjust, and that might be rough at 1st, but you'll be fine...

I am fine being a Light Armor wearing Templar running primarily solo in Cyrodiil in the current game (and I don't turtle with Sword and Board), so I gotta believe with Shuffle still being an excellent Defensive ability, you'll be able to fine your way eventually...

Oh totally I’m not worried about it. I already play solo in medium on my NB and it should be lesss of an issue without a bunch of tank damage doers out there who can avoid all my strikes with shuffle. Leveling a LA magplar now as well.

Vapirko

White wabbit wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Rahotu wrote: »

if zos are listening,then that's because so many of us have left

I’d say that’s just flat out bs. It’s well known that overall numbers are up. They’re makig tons of money. The small amount of endgame players that have left don’t do anything for their profits. So whatever they’re doing for the sake of pvp right now is to actually make it more enjoyable because I think we all know pvp doesn’t make the money.

lol don't know which platform your on but numbers aren't well up

PC so yeah I believe they are. People like to say the games dying but that’s just normal every patch.

Joy_Division

Nope.

If anything, this patch has sucked away any confidence I might have that Wrobel and his combat team have learned that a bunch of random nerfs every update do not improve a game.

I don't like EoTS either. But It's one thing to nerf it, it's another to actually encourage us to be excited about replacing it with something else. What else are we going to use to kill either guilds like Dracarys or faction-stacks? The new Shifting Standard? Mitigation and damage prevention have gone ridiculously crazy high and it's not just heavy armor that's doing that.

What I dislike most about this patch is that it just flat out ignored what have now been longstanding frustrating problems (warden, mgplar, and mDK DPS) and just introduced a whole bunch of unasked for nerfs to skills we use (Petrify, Purify, Frags) all in an effort to try an entice us to use skills we don't.

And the further homogenization of the game is not to be applauded. NBs, DKs, and Sorcs all now have an unblockable and undodgeable stun. The only difference is the sorcerer version has a 28 meter range, because apparently ZoS though sorcerers were struggling with their shield stacking and needed a max ranged stun.

Vapirko

@Joy_Division sure some changes aren’t great. Honestly can’t say I’m not happy that frags no longer has a cc. It was one of the strongest skills out there and didn’t need the cc. It basically just set people up to be bursted down in a way that made it very difficult to avoid. No other class has such an attack that so effective. Sure it would be great if other classes could be brought to meet that level but obviously that’s not gonna happen. I think mag sorcs are just used to having too much utility, damage and tankiness through shields and now that’s being reduced. Some things are being further homogenized but other things are being separated such as mobility and high damage being relegated to medium armor. Things have to change.

ak_pvp

Funny, I had thread in the making with the exact same title, but I CBA to go through everything.

Basically, they made the worst classes worse. Templar/DK. Made the better classes better (sorc)

And then added a bunch of useless unnecessary changes. (AKA: changed to look pretty on the natch potes, doesn't do anything, or is worse in practice) Changes like:

• The removal of stats from special weapons or making them sets.
• Cfrags nerf
• EOTS nerf. Its still stackable cancer that will kill you in seconds.

Blanket nerfs:

• Heavy wrath
• Siphoner

The things I like are NB changes to executioner passive, warden changes and updates to the main effect of old dsa/vma weapons. The ult changes could be decent. Otherwise every other combat change should be reverted and the game unwrobel'd

Minno

Half/half for me. Certain buffs took 2 weeks of convincing and then nerfs were carried over as well.

It has been a up/down pts for sure.

Vapirko

Minno wrote: »

Half/half for me. Certain buffs took 2 weeks of convincing and then nerfs were carried over as well.

It has been a up/down pts for sure.

At least I feel like ZOS is being more responsive with pts changes as apposed to the general trend of 2016 and early 2017 where it felt like they just didn’t listen to a damn thing anyone said.

Trashs1

Joy_Division wrote: »

Nope.

If anything, this patch has sucked away any confidence I might have that Wrobel and his combat team have learned that a bunch of random nerfs every update do not improve a game.

I don't like EoTS either. But It's one thing to nerf it, it's another to actually encourage us to be excited about replacing it with something else. What else are we going to use to kill either guilds like Dracarys or faction-stacks? The new Shifting Standard? Mitigation and damage prevention have gone ridiculously crazy high and it's not just heavy armor that's doing that.

What I dislike most about this patch is that it just flat out ignored what have now been longstanding frustrating problems (warden, mgplar, and mDK DPS) and just introduced a whole bunch of unasked for nerfs to skills we use (Petrify, Purify, Frags) all in an effort to try an entice us to use skills we don't.

And the further homogenization of the game is not to be applauded. NBs, DKs, and Sorcs all now have an unblockable and undodgeable stun. The only difference is the sorcerer version has a 28 meter range, because apparently ZoS though sorcerers were struggling with their shield stacking and needed a max ranged stun.

where does a nb have an unblockable undodgeable stun?!

deepseamk20b14_ESO

The changes are good for the most part. One or two things makes me do a double take as to why they messed with it but nothing that will break the game. Not like most people are complaining about at least.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Trashs1 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Nope.

If anything, this patch has sucked away any confidence I might have that Wrobel and his combat team have learned that a bunch of random nerfs every update do not improve a game.

I don't like EoTS either. But It's one thing to nerf it, it's another to actually encourage us to be excited about replacing it with something else. What else are we going to use to kill either guilds like Dracarys or faction-stacks? The new Shifting Standard? Mitigation and damage prevention have gone ridiculously crazy high and it's not just heavy armor that's doing that.

What I dislike most about this patch is that it just flat out ignored what have now been longstanding frustrating problems (warden, mgplar, and mDK DPS) and just introduced a whole bunch of unasked for nerfs to skills we use (Petrify, Purify, Frags) all in an effort to try an entice us to use skills we don't.

And the further homogenization of the game is not to be applauded. NBs, DKs, and Sorcs all now have an unblockable and undodgeable stun. The only difference is the sorcerer version has a 28 meter range, because apparently ZoS though sorcerers were struggling with their shield stacking and needed a max ranged stun.

where does a nb have an unblockable undodgeable stun?!

Mass hysteria is what he is referring to I believe.

Hatoreehanzo

Where's the fix where frame rate/delay stops going through the floor around large groups (which they promote), random load screens get you killed and certain skills desync your health or are invisible.

Fix the meat and potatoes before you feed people dessert.

geonsocal

at this point - i don't think happy or sad have anything to do with it...

howdy @Hatoreehanzo just noticed your signature is PS4 NA - you play in Vivec? if so, which alliance(s) do you fight for?

Nestor

I am ambivalent about the changes, just like I always am. Since I don't play on the bleeding edge of the Meta, most every change other than 1.6 has had no effect on me other than swapping a couple of Glyphs around.

One nice thing about playing a 95% character, most of the "balance" changes are nothing to get worked up about.

technohic

I like what they are targeting (and of course bailed on my ultimate generating, shield wall build) but think they could have done things a little better by doing it differently.

Like Heavy Armor, I don't think removing the 200 damage from Wrath will be as effective as if they addressed the fact that heavy armor sets offer higher bonuses than medium for stam users in some cases. 200 reduction just winds up making some even to medium as far as raw damage but still offering the better protection.

EOTS damage was not the issue IMO as I feel like it should be powerful being an utlimate. They just need to be able to have counter play to avoid it rather than be gap close spammed and feared unable to get away. If its a power thing they really wanted to address; I would even rather have had it weaker on 1 target but scale to be a lot more when hitting multiple.

Outside of the nerfs; I find the class changes underwhelming. Wont bother with any of the templars new abilities nor my nightblades so its lost on me. Sorc; I actually like frags not stunning. I'd rather not have that manage to land on a target and stun them when I am not ready for a burst window. This way; I can line up rune cage first.

Oh well. Will see how this plays out once it goes live.

Hutch679

Change to secluded grove and morphs was a little harsh. I know it is strong and was overperforming, but 33% heal reduction and a 15 ulti cost increase? Mannnnn. Maybe like 10 ulti increase and a 15% reduction would have sufficed. They straight BANGED the nerf hammer on that one....

Jake1576

Still there was no reason for clever alchemist to get nerfed on console seeing as how console players couldn't use it to exploit and the nerf to it is to stop gankers I really wished they would reconsider the changes to clever alchemist the change they are making to it will make the set useless for alot of builds

eso_nya

No more wrath: pve dmg will go down by ~5%, pvp dmg done down by ~2,5% (assuming long enough in fight to stack up to 20 and having 2k wd or sd from other sources.) No biggy, not happy either.

eots: 12% less dmg, make that 6% after battlespirit [edit: not how battlespirit works. still] dont care.

no armorskill w/o 5pc of armortype. Bye bye armormaster, was a great two years of opness. has been replaced w/ new set. no biggy. I always felt like 5 heavy am + infernal + harness magicka was op af. 5 medium am + immovable hitting armorcap aswell. Again, not happy. Otoh, 3 of the affected builds r actually stronger now. on the last one not sure yet which of the two replacement options to take, both will make it stronger than it is now. so much for the pve side.

no biggy - not happy - dont care.

Hatoreehanzo

geonsocal wrote: »

at this point - i don't think happy or sad have anything to do with it...

howdy @Hatoreehanzo just noticed your signature is PS4 NA - you play in Vivec? if so, which alliance(s) do you fight for?

Yep, PS4 NA since launch. I fight for whoever has more people to kill. This campaign it's usually blue. 8AD, 1DC, 1 EP. Mainly in Vivec solo or in small sweaty groups.

Hatoreehanzo

geonsocal wrote: »

at this point - i don't think happy or sad have anything to do with it...

howdy @Hatoreehanzo just noticed your signature is PS4 NA - you play in Vivec? if so, which alliance(s) do you fight for?

The Darwin quote, how do you adapt to gap closing into a load screen or trying to peel players that are zerging only to be delayed in your actions because every skill or bar swap has a 1.5 delay.

I have played since launch and I've adapted to everything, but there are certain unavoidable things that drive me crazy. This frame rate issue shouldn't exist. Nor should certain skills desyncing your health or not showing up until after your dead, but still running around. Maybe it's all connected somehow? Snipe has had known issues that don't get addressed patch after patch. The skill isn't used in PVE and it's a crutch for bad, wait... "casual" players in PVP so they can spam one skill from the a distance, desync you health and get their kill. The entire experience has swayed towards "casual." Why do you think it was moved towards the first slot on the bow tree?

Go to the sewers where it's less glitchy? They're dead.
BGs? I enjoy open world X'ing.