Innate Axiom: Good for mDKs?

Savos_Saren

I was theorycrafting a build that would have:

2 Valkyn Skoria
5 Burning Spellweave
5 Innate Axiom

It would be a 5l/1m/1h build. All Prismatic glyphs. I believe it would fill the gap of what Silks of the Sun misses: mDK's abilities that utilize magic damage instead of fire damage. Think about it. The following abilities utilize magic instead of pure flame damage:

-Spiked Armor (and its morphs)
-Dark Talons (and its morphs)
-Inhale (and its morphs)
-Stonefist (and its morphs)
-Petrify (and its mophs)

So, technically, if you run SnB (or DW) on the front bar with Valkyn, BSW, and Innate- you'll get a buff to all your mDK skills. You could run 2 Valkyn, 5 BSW, and 4 Innate on your backbar if you use an Inferno staff for ranged attacks.

I was also thinking of 2 Valkyn, 5 BSW, 5 Innate on a front bar with 2 Valkyn, 5 BSW, 3 Innate, and 1 Asylum Infero Staff on the backbar.

Any thoughts?

WrathOfInnos

Unless you are using a mix of stamina and Magicka class skills, I don't think Innate Axiom is worth using. For comparison, what would be your alternate 5 piece set for this build? Julianos?

Vapirko

It seems to have potential since you’re all class based hots. I’d say it’s going to be worth a try for mag DKs and magplars.

NBrookus

Thinking of Sun + Innate + Skoria; Bloodspawn if more sustain is needed.

Crusades

NBrookus wrote: »

Thinking of Sun + Innate + Skoria; Bloodspawn if more sustain is needed.

As well as I, the only way I won't use this is if the bonuses don't apply to our class ultimate "leap" if it does apply to this oooooweeee it will be perfect addition to my build.

Savos_Saren

NBrookus wrote: »

Thinking of Sun + Innate + Skoria; Bloodspawn if more sustain is needed.

@NBrookus

Why not BSW + Innate? BSW buffs your spell damage and fire damage. So, all those magicka-based abilities also get the 525+ damage increase as well, right?

Silks doesn't increase the heal from Inhale or damage from Stone Fist.

NBrookus

jaburns wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Thinking of Sun + Innate + Skoria; Bloodspawn if more sustain is needed.

@NBrookus

Why not BSW + Innate? BSW buffs your spell damage and fire damage. So, all those magicka-based abilities also get the 525+ damage increase as well, right?

Silks doesn't increase the heal from Inhale or damage from Stone Fist.

Just a playstyle preference. I like the steady 400 boost better. BSW doesn't feel like a big enough proc to spend the effort working around it.

Destruent

iirc one of the 2...4 PC-boni is a stambased (wepcrit/dmg etc) one, so you loose more on that piece than you get on the 5 pc....

as someone said, that set is only good if you use stam and magicka-class-abilities.

Savos_Saren

Destruent wrote: »

iirc one of the 2...4 PC-boni is a stambased (wepcrit/dmg etc) one, so you loose more on that piece than you get on the 5 pc....

as someone said, that set is only good if you use stam and magicka-class-abilities.

Perhaps so. Maybe it would be good on a Hybrid DK that uses magicka-based heals (Burning Embers, Inhale) and some stamina-based attacks (Dragon Leap). But I'd imagine that setup would be:

-5 Black Rose
-5 Innate Axiom
-2 Slimecraw

Technically, those sets are very evenly spread for a hybrid DK. It would be just tanky enough to get good crowd control in PVP and have enough damage to finish off enemies. I'm guessing with the next update, we'll see less and less of the Seventh Legion builds.

Savos_Saren

Destruent wrote: »

iirc one of the 2...4 PC-boni is a stambased (wepcrit/dmg etc) one, so you loose more on that piece than you get on the 5 pc....

as someone said, that set is only good if you use stam and magicka-class-abilities.

...to follow up: It's actually Max Stamina as the "odd" bonus. So, if you were to replace Silks with Axiom- you'd just be swapping the Health Bonus for a Stam Bonus. You'd also be swapping a 129 Spell damage piece for a 833 Spell Crit piece.

I haven't done the math- so, I couldn't tell you if 129 Spell Damage is better than 833 Spell Crit.

Kilandros

Innate Axiom doesn't buff CDB for some reason.

Savos_Saren

Kilandros wrote: »

Innate Axiom doesn't buff CDB for some reason.

@Kilandros

Isn't CDB based off your magicka pool? Not your spell damage? I could be wrong.

Edit: I was wrong. Magicka pool and spell damage. Perhaps you can put in a help ticket with a screenshot from PTS? Sorry, I don't have PTS- otherwise, I'd do it.

ak_pvp

I'd run it with my shackle+WM build if we ever would get jewlery crafting. Perfect replacement for sun.. The one thing that wouldn't benefit would be burning (if that even scales idk) But i'd get stronger inhale, CDB and spiked.

_Salty_

I think this set works best with stamina nightblades tanks and possibly stamplars for the BOL heals and radiant execute. I don't see this set working for other classes or any mag spec as there is nothing to gain. If shields scaled off of spell damage as good as they do magicka I say a stam sorc with curse and shields would work as well.

I say stamina Nightblades because they have stam class skills that gap close, execute and have the best spammable in game in my opinion. There is no need to use 2h for a gap closer, spammable and execute like all other classes. This allows you to utilize the siphoning tree such as swallow soul, sap essence and cripple to a certain extent for supplemental healing and damage. It could allow a stamblade to use momentum instead of rally since we lose snare removal if shuffle or drop 2h all together for dual wield and be able to run 5-5-2 on both bars just by using sap essence. This set is like wearing both julianos and hundings rage for class skills. Id pair it with 1 kena and 1 domihaus to get the most out of both resources and 1 stamina damage set. 7th, truth which works with tactician passive and mirage or even bone pirate for regen would be good accent sets.

Now like most hybrids you will have to focus on one resource obviously but all tri stats glyphs and tri food will boost your stats to a huge level. Running this set with armor of truth, 7th or ravager would give you a huge boost to your main.

I believe the damage potential is higher with this set than pelinals

Vanzen

I ve crafted this set on pts (waiting to test it, pts is empty ...)

Mag DK Axiom/BSW/Skoria SNB/SNB as op said or Slime craw for extra crit and dam. 6l/1h full sturdy (in the end and particularly in BG light is the way to go ...)

Stats fully buffed are like insane ... You hit like a truck in PVE with no regen problem thanks to light and atronach + 2/3 regen enchant.

8 skills out of ten are class skills ...

Destruent wrote: »

iirc one of the 2...4 PC-boni is a stambased (wepcrit/dmg etc) one, so you loose more on that piece than you get on the 5 pc....

as someone said, that set is only good if you use stam and magicka-class-abilities.

The 4 bonus is spell crit AND weap crit, so no loss here ...

Savos_Saren

@Vanzen

Thanks for the test! My theorycraft is confirmed then. I figured that the buffs from BSW and Innate would dually buff the magicka effects of our skills. Higher heals and stronger knockdowns.

I'll probably do 5 BSW, 5 Innate, 2 Valkyn on the front bar (SnB) and 4 BSW, 5 Innate, and 2 Valkyn on the back bar (Inferno Staff)

I appreciate your effort!

Vanzen

I ll go

5 Sun or Bsw / 4 innate on back bar if using destro

Savos_Saren

@Vanzen

The reason I'm thinking of 4 BSW and 5 Innate on the back bar is that, in PVP, I use Stone Giant as my ranged attack with heavy destroy attacks. You'd be amazed at how hard Stone Giant can hit with the right allocation of CP and while buffed.

WrathOfInnos

jaburns wrote: »

...to follow up: It's actually Max Stamina as the "odd" bonus. So, if you were to replace Silks with Axiom- you'd just be swapping the Health Bonus for a Stam Bonus. You'd also be swapping a 129 Spell damage piece for a 833 Spell Crit piece.

I haven't done the math- so, I couldn't tell you if 129 Spell Damage is better than 833 Spell Crit.

In PVE the spell damage and spell crit are effectively the same, in PVP spell damage may outperform crit by up to 3% of your damage output.

Your point about the health bonus is exactly why silks is not widely used in PVE. Also silks will buff fire blockade, flame clench, Destro ultimate, meteor, scalding rune, none of which are affected by Innate Axiom.

The stam bonus is useless for PVE DPS, but may not rule out the set for PVP (kind of a partial shackle breaker to allow more block/dodge/break free).

I think it would be nice if they would release some useful new sets, instead of all these hybrid sets nobody wants. Would it be that hard to just make a version for stam and one for magicka? Looking at you assassins guile, innate axiom, mechanical acuity, clever alchemist, shackle breaker, Daedric trickery, pelinals aptitude, and even twice born star. Any set that has a wasted set bonus that does nothing for a build will never be effective. (Most of this last paragraph was a PVE rant, if you solely PVP then enjoy the constant gift of interesting new sets)

Savos_Saren

@WrathOfInnos

I do like the extra stamina from Innate Axiom as opposed to the health from Silks of the Sun. My health is a little high as it is (from prismatic enchantments) and the stamina goes a looooong way in PVP if you're blocking or roll dodging.

My front and back bar also benefit more from Innate + BSW combo vs Silks + BSW combo in that I run the following setup:

SnB/DW Bar: Up close and personal.
-Burning Embers
-Flame Lash
-Volatile Armor
-Inhale
-Burning Talons
-Ferocious Leap

Destro Staff Bar: I'm gonna get you, sucka.
-Dragon Fire Scale
-Stone Giant
-Elusive Mist/GDB/Flames of Oblivion
-Molten Armaments
-Eruption
-Shifting Standard (I usually run Eye of Flame... but I figure now I can try Shifting since Eye is taking a 12% nerf )

As you can see- literally everything will be buffed by Innate Axiom and BSW. The extra damage on the magic portion of the skills should offer more heals (especially from Inhale) and DPS. I'll most likely keep Valkyn Skoria as my Monster Set since I still want the health from it and the damage from Valkyn isn't effected by Silks of the Sun, anyway.

WrathOfInnos

@Jaburns You seem to have found a build that will effectively use the set then. The only thing you're missing out on compared to silks of the sun would be your light and heavy attacks with the staff. I don't PVP on MagDK enough to know what the typical bars are, so the only question would be: What other skills are you giving up to ensure that all class skills are being used? Any guild or weapon skills that would make the build better, but are being excluded to make innate axiom the best gear set?

Vanzen

jaburns wrote: »

@WrathOfInnos

I do like the extra stamina from Innate Axiom as opposed to the health from Silks of the Sun. My health is a little high as it is (from prismatic enchantments) and the stamina goes a looooong way in PVP if you're blocking or roll dodging.

My front and back bar also benefit more from Innate + BSW combo vs Silks + BSW combo in that I run the following setup:

SnB/DW Bar: Up close and personal.
-Burning Embers
-Flame Lash
-Volatile Armor
-Inhale
-Burning Talons
-Ferocious Leap

Destro Staff Bar: I'm gonna get you, sucka.
-Dragon Fire Scale
-Stone Giant
-Elusive Mist/GDB/Flames of Oblivion
-Molten Armaments
-Eruption
-Shifting Standard (I usually run Eye of Flame... but I figure now I can try Shifting since Eye is taking a 12% nerf )

As you can see- literally everything will be buffed by Innate Axiom and BSW. The extra damage on the magic portion of the skills should offer more heals (especially from Inhale) and DPS. I'll most likely keep Valkyn Skoria as my Monster Set since I still want the health from it and the damage from Valkyn isn't effected by Silks of the Sun, anyway.

Yup all depends on skils used

My 5 Sun or 5 BSW/4 Innate reasons over 5 Innate/4 BSW on destro bar are

bar1
Embers/Flamme lash/Burning Talons/Inhale/GDB

Bar2
Molten/Flame Clench/Wings/Blockade or Eruption/mist

Yours and I make sense ...

On a side note ...

Innate/BSW fully buffed with pots and weap/power enchants 2 regen 1 dam enchants will translate like 3.6k spell power and 2k mag regen ... Not bad isnt it ...

scipionumatia

Kilandros wrote: »

Innate Axiom doesn't buff CDB for some reason.

@Kilandros maybe because its % based?

Lexxypwns

jaburns wrote: »

@WrathOfInnos

I do like the extra stamina from Innate Axiom as opposed to the health from Silks of the Sun. My health is a little high as it is (from prismatic enchantments) and the stamina goes a looooong way in PVP if you're blocking or roll dodging.

My front and back bar also benefit more from Innate + BSW combo vs Silks + BSW combo in that I run the following setup:

SnB/DW Bar: Up close and personal.
-Burning Embers
-Flame Lash
-Volatile Armor
-Inhale
-Burning Talons
-Ferocious Leap

Destro Staff Bar: I'm gonna get you, sucka.
-Dragon Fire Scale
-Stone Giant
-Elusive Mist/GDB/Flames of Oblivion
-Molten Armaments
-Eruption
-Shifting Standard (I usually run Eye of Flame... but I figure now I can try Shifting since Eye is taking a 12% nerf )

As you can see- literally everything will be buffed by Innate Axiom and BSW. The extra damage on the magic portion of the skills should offer more heals (especially from Inhale) and DPS. I'll most likely keep Valkyn Skoria as my Monster Set since I still want the health from it and the damage from Valkyn isn't effected by Silks of the Sun, anyway.

I wouldn't run shifting since you can't generate ultimate properly during it.

Kilandros

scipionumatia wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Innate Axiom doesn't buff CDB for some reason.

@Kilandros maybe because its % based?

@scipionumatia Coagulating Dragon's Blood (CDB), not Green Dragon's Blood (GDB). CDB scales off of spell damage and maximum magicka.

scipionumatia

@Kilandros
ah right, probably glitched then likely will be fixed before it goes live if its reported correctly

Xvorg

Seems a good choice for mDK

Kilandros

scipionumatia wrote: »

@Kilandros
ah right, probably glitched then likely will be fixed before it goes live if its reported correctly

Oh yeah I'm sure it'll be fixed right away /s

Savos_Saren

@Vanzen
I'm assuming that set up is with Witchmother's?

If you get a chance in PTS- could you possibly screenshot the character stats and one or two abilities while buffed?

Does PTS allow you to make everything legendary?

Savos_Saren

@Lexxypwns
I've been running group PVP with Dominant Dominion lately. From some of the large scale battles they've fought- I've determined that having one Shifting/Standard of Might paired with an Eye can greatly increase the kill count of counter "ball zergs" using only Eyes. That Major Defile can make quite a difference!

The strategy that some of these large scale groups (on all three alliances) is quite impressive. You can definitely distinguish well organized groups vs PUG zergs.

Jawasa

But wouldnt a warden do the defile better?