Can we stop nerfing pve because of pvp? asylum destro

Mazbt

Don't be so salty if it's op in pve they nerf it anyways.

TequilaFire

I know, let's give PVE the battle spirit damage and shield reduction debuff of PvP and give PvE mobs all the broken overpowered armor, abilities and weapons that players use.

Then I wonder who would be crying.

O_LYKOS

Something else getting nerfed because pvp players cry for it?? Shocker. Why am I not surprised.

Osteos

How is it a nerf if its on the pts for testing and balancing before it goes live?

MLGProPlayer

It was bad for PvE too. Sorcs were hitting way too hard with the staff. We finally have some class diversity in trials. We don't need to go back to 8x magsorc DPS.

MehrunesFlagon

TequilaFire wrote: »

I know, let's give PVE the battle spirit damage and shield reduction debuff of PvP and give PvE mobs all the broken overpowered armor, abilities and weapons that players use.

Then I wonder who would be crying.

maybe we should give pvpers some of the abilites the bobs in Maw of Lorkhaj have.

ArchMikem

wazzz56 wrote: »

SO you make threads for people to not read? And I will say for the 1000th time, if bosses and mobs could post on forums they would cry for nerfs etc...It just gets tiresome whenever a nerf happens people push all the blame onto pvpers....

Because that's usually where the source of the Nerfing comes from? People act like PvP is the sole lifeblood of this game, and PvE is just the quirky side extension that's allowed to exist. There have been multiple hits to PvE playstyles because of the abilities/passives/whatever somehow being too good and exploited to Hell in Cyrodiil. Remember ZOS making Proc Damage no longer being able to Crit because people kept complaining about Vipers?

kargen27

aliyavana wrote: »

The vast majority of the complaints about asylum weapons were due to it being op in pvp. A pve weapon shouldn't be nerfed for pvp and a pvper shouldn't be compelled to farm bis from pve anyway. We should make the asylum destro completly disabled in pvp as a pvper shouldn't feel like he needs to do pve content to get the best pvp gear. A pvper can get for example monster sets in cyrodil but has no option for the asylum weapons. Let's not nerf pve for pvp anymore plz as how many times has pve nerfed pvp in comparison? We don't have threads of pvers complaining to change bosmers stealth dmg racial which is only useful in sacraments and pvp ganking into something that both pvers and pvpers find useful (poison or bow danage anyone?)

I'm not denying that things can overperform in pve and hope that one day all classes will be in a even playing field in pve tanking to dks or to healing as templars but it is clear that a pve weapon got nerfed for pvp.

So imo disable asylum destro in pvp, or make the staff work differently in pvp and start balancing the two differently

The biggest nerfs were because ZoS didn't appreciate that people could solo vet level group content and that certain guilds strolled through the hardest content soon after its release.
PvPrs were punished along with everyone else because some guilds were so easily able to do no death runs in trials. We don't have to speculate on that. ZoS admitted that was the reason for the changes.

SammyFable

kargen27 wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

The vast majority of the complaints about asylum weapons were due to it being op in pvp. A pve weapon shouldn't be nerfed for pvp and a pvper shouldn't be compelled to farm bis from pve anyway. We should make the asylum destro completly disabled in pvp as a pvper shouldn't feel like he needs to do pve content to get the best pvp gear. A pvper can get for example monster sets in cyrodil but has no option for the asylum weapons. Let's not nerf pve for pvp anymore plz as how many times has pve nerfed pvp in comparison? We don't have threads of pvers complaining to change bosmers stealth dmg racial which is only useful in sacraments and pvp ganking into something that both pvers and pvpers find useful (poison or bow danage anyone?)

I'm not denying that things can overperform in pve and hope that one day all classes will be in a even playing field in pve tanking to dks or to healing as templars but it is clear that a pve weapon got nerfed for pvp.

So imo disable asylum destro in pvp, or make the staff work differently in pvp and start balancing the two differently

The biggest nerfs were because ZoS didn't appreciate that people could solo vet level group content and that certain guilds strolled through the hardest content soon after its release.
PvPrs were punished along with everyone else because some guilds were so easily able to do no death runs in trials. We don't have to speculate on that. ZoS admitted that was the reason for the changes.

And yet, HoF was so easy, it was cleared on PTS, so is the upcoming AS raid. While MoL if I'm not mistaken hasn't been cleared on the PTS. This tells me ZOS creates easier content. You can also see this in the HotR dungeons. They keep giving us stuff that's too easy to do.

TequilaFire

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

I know, let's give PVE the battle spirit damage and shield reduction debuff of PvP and give PvE mobs all the broken overpowered armor, abilities and weapons that players use.

Then I wonder who would be crying.

maybe we should give pvpers some of the abilites the bobs in Maw of Lorkhaj have.

Some of the unkillable broken builds already achieve the same effect.
Only it takes more than 12 players to finally bring them down.

TequilaFire

ArchMikem wrote: »

wazzz56 wrote: »

SO you make threads for people to not read? And I will say for the 1000th time, if bosses and mobs could post on forums they would cry for nerfs etc...It just gets tiresome whenever a nerf happens people push all the blame onto pvpers....

Because that's usually where the source of the Nerfing comes from? People act like PvP is the sole lifeblood of this game, and PvE is just the quirky side extension that's allowed to exist. There have been multiple hits to PvE playstyles because of the abilities/passives/whatever somehow being too good and exploited to Hell in Cyrodiil. Remember ZOS making Proc Damage no longer being able to Crit because people kept complaining about Vipers?

And we didn't ask for all proc sets to lose their crits, just sets like Vipers to be adjusted as they finally did on pass two.
But of course they never reverse a previous nerf.

NyassaV

It was over preforming in PvE as wel, so quit whinning

Zvorgin

How can something not even released be nerfed? It is on PTS being tested. Some people whine just to whine.

JinMori

Another reason why i'm done with eso, came back for 1 day to see how it was, and no thanks, sustain is still ***, they still haven't separated pvp from pve, i'm done, it's clear that zenimax has his own plans, and they don;t give a *** about feedback.

Most people didn't like sustain nerfs, well ,they are still there, most peole would like to see pvp and pve separated to avoid this kind of ***, but no.

Zvorgin

JinMori wrote: »

Another reason why i'm done with eso, came back for 1 day to see how it was, and no thanks, sustain is still ***, they still haven't separated pvp from pve, i'm done, it's clear that zenimax has his own plans, and they don;t give a *** about feedback.

Most people didn't like sustain nerfs, well ,they are still there, most peole would like to see pvp and pve separated to avoid this kind of ***, but no.

This is a ridiculous hot take. With Asylum staff PvE dps numbers were insanely OP based on the testing on the PTS. This change has nothing to do with PvP.

Doctordarkspawn

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

You are entitled to your opinion of course, but I have to ask.... Do all these "nerfs from PvP" really affect PvE? Is it a change where the staff is unusable for some reason? PvE we kill NPCs that run a script over and over, never deviating from it. PvP you obviously have to deal with players that are looking for op cheese builds to run, and only the devs can stop that.

Whats the complaint regarding PvE and the staff? It will take a few seconds or minute more to kill because of the nerf? Would there even be a complaint if ZOS originally released the destro staff functioning as it does with the nerf? The only thing I can think of is that ZOS released the staff showing X stats, now ZOS tweaks X stats, and you are saying "o well that sucks".

Yes.

The armor change certainly affects PVE and what tanks will be running and how effectively they'll be able to mitigate block costs through dodge.

While the example isn't apt, many changes made for PVP will affect PVE. @Publius_Scipio if you stopped playing apologist for a few minutes, you'd see something along the lines of the armor changes made every other patch or so. It's a consistant pattern. The OP's example may be off, but they're message is sound.

Valencer

wazzz56 wrote: »

How many of the people crying about Pvpers causing nerfs actually play both aspects of the game?

Exactly 0.

It's better to just ignore these people, seriously..

MehrunesFlagon

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

I know, let's give PVE the battle spirit damage and shield reduction debuff of PvP and give PvE mobs all the broken overpowered armor, abilities and weapons that players use.

Then I wonder who would be crying.

maybe we should give pvpers some of the abilites the bobs in Maw of Lorkhaj have.

TequilaFire wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

I know, let's give PVE the battle spirit damage and shield reduction debuff of PvP and give PvE mobs all the broken overpowered armor, abilities and weapons that players use.

Then I wonder who would be crying.

maybe we should give pvpers some of the abilites the bobs in Maw of Lorkhaj have.

Some of the unkillable broken builds already achieve the same effect.
Only it takes more than 12 players to finally bring them down.

was a joke after all

Publius_Scipio

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

You are entitled to your opinion of course, but I have to ask.... Do all these "nerfs from PvP" really affect PvE? Is it a change where the staff is unusable for some reason? PvE we kill NPCs that run a script over and over, never deviating from it. PvP you obviously have to deal with players that are looking for op cheese builds to run, and only the devs can stop that.

Whats the complaint regarding PvE and the staff? It will take a few seconds or minute more to kill because of the nerf? Would there even be a complaint if ZOS originally released the destro staff functioning as it does with the nerf? The only thing I can think of is that ZOS released the staff showing X stats, now ZOS tweaks X stats, and you are saying "o well that sucks".

Yes.

The armor change certainly affects PVE and what tanks will be running and how effectively they'll be able to mitigate block costs through dodge.

While the example isn't apt, many changes made for PVP will affect PVE. @Publius_Scipio if you stopped playing apologist for a few minutes, you'd see something along the lines of the armor changes made every other patch or so. It's a consistant pattern. The OP's example may be off, but they're message is sound.

The only change I see is maybe the change in kill time in PvE. Which apparently some players flip out about.

Thogard

THis is the first and only game I've ever played that has attempted to balance classes in PvE as well as PvP

zaria

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

PVE does not need to be balanced, PvP does. As a PVE player I understand why PvP balancing needs to be prioritised.

Furthermore, I find end game PVE combat to be far too easy at the moment. Nerfs to end game PVE equipment can only help restore some element of challenge to that combat.

You can do some tricks, ground based AoE is an PvE thing, yes it work against zergs in PvP and this is an good thing as some who zerg in PvP becaue of lack of skill. Saw this in last dlc proc sets.
making the cliffracer dodgeable and buffing its damage would buff warden in pve but nerf in pvp something I think most agree is an good thing.

Kneighbors

wazzz56 wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

You didnt even get this item yet. Please, stop whining lol.

That doesn't change the fact that during pts testing it was nice and pvp whining caused it to be nerfed. Just look at the Pts and see the doomsaying from pvpers.

wazzz56 wrote: »

SO you make threads for people to not read? And I will say for the 1000th time, if bosses and mobs could post on forums they would cry for nerfs etc...It just gets tiresome whenever a nerf happens people push all the blame onto pvpers....

I don't mind pve being needed for pve like if Zos decided something was overperforming in pve and nerfs pve for pve. It's very likely pvp got it nerfed. It's not like pvpers ask pve to be nerfed but zos refuses to balance seperately

Rjizzle09 wrote: »

I have to agree with op tho EVERY SINGLE PVE NERF WAS BECAUSE OF PVP. Ill say this again like i have in the past if pvpers want a pvp game this isnt it.Eso USED to be a game that was going to be about pvp mostly but that got scrapped. Now its a pve game with pvp attached. Its mostly zenimax fault as theyre too lazy to separate the two. Evidence of this can be seen in one of the past live streams where they were specifically asked why they cant separate pve and pvp. They said it would require too much "WORK". You can pretty much bet that every single set thats taken into pvp will get the nerf hammer at some point. Vma vow hasnt gotten a nerf since it came out lmao why? Cause nobody is dumb enough to stand in a bow aoe for 10 seconds. The only things that get nerfed on pvp are things that prople die to. Look at destro ult, it was WAY USEFUL for pve until someone took it over there and started massacring plp then it got nerfed a few times. This will never be fixed in this game

yes because the sustain nerfs were completely pvp oriented? I am sorry you can no longer face melt mobs and bosses with static mechanics quite as quickly . Also I am glad to know that I met the person who decides who can play this game for the reasons they want. SOrry Pvpers, this guys says this game is not for you...well gg happy trails everyone..ps destro ult is still useful...

Yea.. Sustain nerf was due to PvP too. Seems like you missed some ESO history lessons. There were builds with unlimited resources who were making 1vsX in Cyro, so ZoS were looking for a way to nerf that.

Xoelarasizerer

wazzz56 wrote: »

if bosses and mobs could post on forums they would cry for nerfs etc...

Yeah but who is gonna take anything Vorenor Winterbourne has to say seriously anyway. Vampire in medium armour trying to fight with his bare hands? lolwut... I mean, his idea of an ambush is to fly in right in front of his opponents and loudly declare "ambush! that's a good one!" before getting himself heavily outnumbered and outweaponed xD

He's like a newb templar tank that thinks they are invincible because they have breath of life smh.

Now Dranos Velador, there's a Boss who can kick the class with all his sass!

kargen27

SammyFable wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

The vast majority of the complaints about asylum weapons were due to it being op in pvp. A pve weapon shouldn't be nerfed for pvp and a pvper shouldn't be compelled to farm bis from pve anyway. We should make the asylum destro completly disabled in pvp as a pvper shouldn't feel like he needs to do pve content to get the best pvp gear. A pvper can get for example monster sets in cyrodil but has no option for the asylum weapons. Let's not nerf pve for pvp anymore plz as how many times has pve nerfed pvp in comparison? We don't have threads of pvers complaining to change bosmers stealth dmg racial which is only useful in sacraments and pvp ganking into something that both pvers and pvpers find useful (poison or bow danage anyone?)

I'm not denying that things can overperform in pve and hope that one day all classes will be in a even playing field in pve tanking to dks or to healing as templars but it is clear that a pve weapon got nerfed for pvp.

So imo disable asylum destro in pvp, or make the staff work differently in pvp and start balancing the two differently

The biggest nerfs were because ZoS didn't appreciate that people could solo vet level group content and that certain guilds strolled through the hardest content soon after its release.
PvPrs were punished along with everyone else because some guilds were so easily able to do no death runs in trials. We don't have to speculate on that. ZoS admitted that was the reason for the changes.

And yet, HoF was so easy, it was cleared on PTS, so is the upcoming AS raid. While MoL if I'm not mistaken hasn't been cleared on the PTS. This tells me ZOS creates easier content. You can also see this in the HotR dungeons. They keep giving us stuff that's too easy to do.

Doesn't change the fact that ZoS said they made the sustain and some other changes in response to solo players doing vet group content and groups so easily doing perfect runs on new content. They are attempting to walk a fine line so that content is demanding for the elite players but doable by the casual players. That is where most the problems come from, not from PvP/PvE.

ArchMikem

Hollery wrote: »

It was over preforming in PvE as wel, so quit whinning

Over performing in PvE is a GOOD thing.

MLGProPlayer

ArchMikem wrote: »

Hollery wrote: »

It was over preforming in PvE as wel, so quit whinning

Over performing in PvE is a GOOD thing.

No it's not.

It contributes to power creep by making content easier. It was also overperforming on magsorcs specifically, bringing their DPS back into the 40k+ range (which would have meant magsorc-only trial groups again).

The only reason we have class diversity now is that stamina deals around 10k more DPS than magicka, but magicka has the benefit of shields and AOE damage. Bring a magicka class back into 40k+ territory, and there is no reason to use stamina again (and no reason to use any magicka class other than sorc again too).

SammyFable

kargen27 wrote: »

SammyFable wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

The vast majority of the complaints about asylum weapons were due to it being op in pvp. A pve weapon shouldn't be nerfed for pvp and a pvper shouldn't be compelled to farm bis from pve anyway. We should make the asylum destro completly disabled in pvp as a pvper shouldn't feel like he needs to do pve content to get the best pvp gear. A pvper can get for example monster sets in cyrodil but has no option for the asylum weapons. Let's not nerf pve for pvp anymore plz as how many times has pve nerfed pvp in comparison? We don't have threads of pvers complaining to change bosmers stealth dmg racial which is only useful in sacraments and pvp ganking into something that both pvers and pvpers find useful (poison or bow danage anyone?)

I'm not denying that things can overperform in pve and hope that one day all classes will be in a even playing field in pve tanking to dks or to healing as templars but it is clear that a pve weapon got nerfed for pvp.

So imo disable asylum destro in pvp, or make the staff work differently in pvp and start balancing the two differently

The biggest nerfs were because ZoS didn't appreciate that people could solo vet level group content and that certain guilds strolled through the hardest content soon after its release.
PvPrs were punished along with everyone else because some guilds were so easily able to do no death runs in trials. We don't have to speculate on that. ZoS admitted that was the reason for the changes.

And yet, HoF was so easy, it was cleared on PTS, so is the upcoming AS raid. While MoL if I'm not mistaken hasn't been cleared on the PTS. This tells me ZOS creates easier content. You can also see this in the HotR dungeons. They keep giving us stuff that's too easy to do.

Doesn't change the fact that ZoS said they made the sustain and some other changes in response to solo players doing vet group content and groups so easily doing perfect runs on new content. They are attempting to walk a fine line so that content is demanding for the elite players but doable by the casual players. That is where most the problems come from, not from PvP/PvE.

I never said it would. I'm just trying to understand why ZOS nerfs the player's fun instead of directly adjusting damage done. The sustain nerf hasn't decreased DPS at all. Players just altered their playstyle.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Hollery wrote: »

It was over preforming in PvE as wel, so quit whinning

Over performing in PvE is a GOOD thing.

No it's not.

It contributes to power creep by making content easier. It was also overperforming on magsorcs specifically, bringing their DPS back into the 40k+ range (which would have meant magsorc-only trial groups again).

The only reason we have class diversity now is that stamina deals around 10k more DPS than magicka, but magicka has the benefit of shields and AOE damage. Bring a magicka class back into 40k+ territory, and there is no reason to use stamina again (and no reason to use any magicka class other than sorc again too).

We were never away from 40k+ DPS. The parse below was using a trial Staff and not asylum as you can clearly see due to the lack of the chilled debuff.

MagSorc only trials aren't a thing, because, as you said, stamboys deal more ST DPS than magicka. Additionally MagBlades have been buffed to be able to outdps Sorcs.

Banana

Pvp has been ruining pve since launch. Thats just how it is

WuffyCerulei

The change was necessary because it would be too be strong in pvp and easy to get with the normal trial. However, with this change, there's a better difference with the regular and perfected staves. Often times you can't fire 3 force pulses/crushing shocks without having to shield or heal in pvp.

Alexandrious

wazzz56 wrote: »

oh joy, another one of these threads.........

Oh joy a board troll.

Lemme get the popcorn, I wanna see what happens next.