Sick and Tired of Reading How Ungrateful People Are Over Free Crown Crates!

The_Lex

OP, I hear you! Personally, I'm sick and tired of reading the posts of people who are sick and tired of reading other peoples' contrary opinions on a controversial topic.

Storymaster

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Storymaster wrote: »

You've established that you perceive even light sales approaches as someone trying to scheme and scam you. You don't like Crown Crates, including free ones. Out of curiosity, what is your opinion on collecting baseball cards or playing collectible card games like Magic or Hearthstone?

You are AGAIN putting words in my mouth.
I did NOT say that someone trying to sell something to me is someone trying to scheme and scam me. But it IS someone trying to sell something to me. For a price as high as possible, regardless if I truly need it or not, or if I can afford it or not. As the old saying states, "a good salesman is someone who sells a vacuum cleaner to someone who already owns three and has no electricity in their house".
I did not say either that I did not like crates. I just said I take only the free ones (and I love those ;-) )

I cannot comment on your examples since I have no clue what Hearthstone or Magic are. I remember receiving (as an ESO+ member) a free code for some digital card game a few days ago but I gave it away to one of my guildies who was collecting them. No further opinion on that.

Fair enough.

Tavore1138

Storymaster wrote: »

Tavore1138 wrote: »

Its always nice to get a freebie but it is naive to believe it doesn’t serve a commercial purpose rather than a solely philanthropic one.

Eh? We've already clearly established that crown crates are a viable revenue stream that supports the game in two ways: paying for the production of new content and keeping it profitable. When an MMO is no longer profitable, it dies.

Indeed, at which point your initial assertion that people should show gratitude for being on the receiving end of what is essentially an attempt to sell them something falls down. It is what it is - an attempt to whet our appetites in the hope that the overall number of crates sold will rise revenues and profits will rise and everyone at ZoS will get a festive bonus.

It only takes on a negative aspect IF you believe they are deliberately looking to stimulate that 'just one more spin' response AND that such a response is capable of over-riding common sense. There is been much discussion of that here and around other games with similar systems and I'm not going to get into it again here.

As for TCG/CCGs that is rather different because although each pack is a gamble you know that each pack is made up of so many of each rarity of card AND even if you don't get a specific card you might want you can trade for it with other people and still make viable play decks without particular rares. You receive a direct value at all times.

Storymaster

Tavore1138 wrote: »

Indeed, at which point your initial assertion that people should show gratitude for being on the receiving end of what is essentially an attempt to sell them something falls down.

Once more, verbiage that reveals concerning vitriol for the lightest sales approach possible. Nothing more to discuss really. You're either the kind of guy that says thank you when you're offered a cheese sample at the grocery store, or you're not. It's just that simple.

Tavore1138 wrote: »

As for TCG/CCGs that is rather different because although each pack is a gamble you know that each pack is made up of so many of each rarity of card AND even if you don't get a specific card you might want you can trade for it with other people and still make viable play decks without particular rares. You receive a direct value at all times.

Now you're trying to illustrate that Crown Crates aren't based off the gamble of what you can get in a collectible card pack. Furthermore, value can be attributed to anything received in a Crown Crate.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Storymaster wrote: »

You're either the kind of guy that says thank you when you're offered a cheese sample at the grocery store, or you're not. It's just that simple.

I don't say thank you when I'm offered a cheese sample. Well, I may, out of pure politeness and respect to the person working there, but certainly not out of GRATEFULNESS.
The cheese seller doesn't NOT care about my happiness, my well-being, or even myself as a person. They're not sharing enthusiasm for that cheese. They're not celebrating anything with us. They're not charitable (we're not starving). They're not friendly.
They want to make us buy this cheese, either because the taste of it in our mouth awakens the wish for more, or because we feel compelled to buy some, now that we've accepted something free. It is thought, organized and setup as a commercial trap, to make us impulsively buy something we had not planned to buy.
Again, I'm not saying it is evil. But it is commercial, and commercial ONLY. Pure business. Nothing to thank for here.

And - just to make things clear : I'd prefer companies to NOT offer free cheese samples in supermarkets. It's a form of harassment when you just don't want it and just wish to get your shopping done asap. We're too crowded with offers, sales, advertising and incentives to buy everywhere. Too much is too much.

Storymaster wrote: »

Furthermore, value can be attributed to anything received in a Crown Crate.

100% wrong. You cannot exchange anything with another player, nor can you exchange any stuff you don't want for gems.

Tavore1138

Storymaster wrote: »

Tavore1138 wrote: »

Indeed, at which point your initial assertion that people should show gratitude for being on the receiving end of what is essentially an attempt to sell them something falls down.

Once more, verbiage that reveals concerning vitriol for the lightest sales approach possible. Nothing more to discuss really. You're either the kind of guy that says thank you when you're offered a cheese sample at the grocery store, or you're not. It's just that simple.

Tavore1138 wrote: »

As for TCG/CCGs that is rather different because although each pack is a gamble you know that each pack is made up of so many of each rarity of card AND even if you don't get a specific card you might want you can trade for it with other people and still make viable play decks without particular rares. You receive a direct value at all times.

Now you're trying to illustrate that Crown Crates aren't based off the gamble of what you can get in a collectible card pack. Furthermore, value can be attributed to anything received in a Crown Crate.

I would say thanks because I am English and that's how we roll - but I would not attribute the free cheese to the cheese monger wishing to give me healthy bones and teeth but to his hopes that I will go 'Oooo, yummy' and proceed to purchase a few ounces to take home, maybe to come back and buy more if I enjoy it... perhaps even getting some tasty cooked meats and some olives stuffed with garlic while I peruse his shelves. I bear him no malice for that because he is doing his job but nor do I raise him to sainthood for the very same reason.

And yes I am exactly saying that about the difference between a card pack and a crate - do you disagree or where you just re-iterating what I said?

Storymaster

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I don't say thank you when I'm offered a cheese sample. Well, I may, out of pure politeness and respect to the person working there, but certainly not out of GRATEFULNESS.
The cheese seller doesn't NOT care about my happiness, my well-being, or even myself as a person. They're not sharing enthusiasm for that cheese. They're not celebrating anything with us. They're not charitable (we're not starving). They're not friendly.
They want to make us buy this cheese, either because the taste of it in our mouth awakens the wish for more, or because we feel compelled to buy some, now that we've accepted something free. It is thought, organized and setup as a commercial trap, to make us impulsively buy something we had not planned to buy.
Again, I'm not saying it is evil. But it is commercial, and commercial ONLY. Pure business. Nothing to thank for here.

And - just to make things clear : I'd prefer companies to NOT offer free cheese samples in supermarkets. It's a form of harassment when you just don't want it and just wish to get your shopping done asap. We're too crowded with offers, sales, advertising and incentives to buy everywhere. Too much is too much.

*gives @anitajoneb17_ESO a big hug*

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Storymaster wrote: »

Furthermore, value can be attributed to anything received in a Crown Crate.

100% wrong. You cannot exchange anything with another player, nor can you exchange any stuff you don't want for gems.

What be wrong? The items found within a Crown Crate do have value. You are however right in that they cannot be traded.

Tavore1138 wrote: »

I would say thanks because I am English and that's how we roll - but I would not attribute the free cheese to the cheese monger wishing to give me healthy bones and teeth but to his hopes that I will go 'Oooo, yummy' and proceed to purchase a few ounces to take home, maybe to come back and buy more if I enjoy it... perhaps even getting some tasty cooked meats and some olives stuffed with garlic while I peruse his shelves. I bear him no malice for that because he is doing his job but nor do I raise him to sainthood for the very same reason.

You just made me.... very hungry! Your delectable mentionings of ounces of cheeses and cheese mongers and "tasty cooked meats". What's not to love !?!

JKorr

Storymaster wrote: »

Tavore1138 wrote: »

Indeed, at which point your initial assertion that people should show gratitude for being on the receiving end of what is essentially an attempt to sell them something falls down.

Once more, verbiage that reveals concerning vitriol for the lightest sales approach possible. Nothing more to discuss really. You're either the kind of guy that says thank you when you're offered a cheese sample at the grocery store, or you're not. It's just that simple.

Tavore1138 wrote: »

As for TCG/CCGs that is rather different because although each pack is a gamble you know that each pack is made up of so many of each rarity of card AND even if you don't get a specific card you might want you can trade for it with other people and still make viable play decks without particular rares. You receive a direct value at all times.

Now you're trying to illustrate that Crown Crates aren't based off the gamble of what you can get in a collectible card pack. Furthermore, value can be attributed to anything received in a Crown Crate.

Question; when you buy a package of collectible cards, is it possible for you to trade a duplicate to someone else? When you buy a package of collectible cards, can you get rid of [any method you want to use] cards you don't like and don't wish to own? When you buy a package of collectible cards, is there any super special cards that you are ONLY ALLOWED TO GET FROM THE PACKAGES and never trade for? The "gamble" is balanced out by being able to trade, swap, or buy from other collectors items you want that you didn't get in your purchased packages. The value of the item is subjective, of course. However you will be able to find the item you want, and decide if the price of the trade or sale is one you are willing to pay.

Clown crates are not equivalent.

Items from the clown crates are instantly bound to your account.

Items from the clown crates CAN NOT BE TRADED to other players.

Items from the clown crates can not be deleted/destroyed/discarded.

There are items in the clown crates that CAN NOT be obtained by trading duplicate items back for the additional game currency of gems.

Items from the clown crates CAN NOT be purchased or traded for from other players. No matter what you are willing to spend.

Really, getting free clown crates isn't anything to be exceedingly grateful for. Rng rules; if you're blessed by rngesus, congrats. If you aren't, oh well. At least you didn't have to pay for them.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Storymaster wrote: »

The items found within a Crown Crate do have value. You are however right in that they cannot be traded.

What value then ?
I mean, per definition, something that cannot be traded has no value. Unless you don't refer to market value, but emotional value ...? esthetical value ? But in strictly financial terms, something that cannot be sold has no value.

Storymaster

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Storymaster wrote: »

The items found within a Crown Crate do have value. You are however right in that they cannot be traded.

What value then ?
I mean, per definition, something that cannot be traded has no value. Unless you don't refer to market value, but emotional value ...? esthetical value ?

The ability to be traded or not has nothing to do with the definition of value. From your perspective, they have no value to you because you only value that they can be traded or not. Fair enough.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Storymaster wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Storymaster wrote: »

The items found within a Crown Crate do have value. You are however right in that they cannot be traded.

What value then ?
I mean, per definition, something that cannot be traded has no value. Unless you don't refer to market value, but emotional value ...? esthetical value ?

The ability to be traded or not has nothing to do with the definition of value. From your perspective, they have no value to you because you only value that they can be traded or not. Fair enough.

Again, you try to argue against logic. I'm not falling for that.
What kind of value are you speaking of ? If you think it's a matter of perspective, then explain your perspective. You refer to "the definition of value". Please explain what definition you use.

Storymaster

JKorr wrote: »

Question; when you buy a package of collectible cards, is it possible for you to trade a duplicate to someone else? When you buy a package of collectible cards, can you get rid of [any method you want to use] cards you don't like and don't wish to own? When you buy a package of collectible cards, is there any super special cards that you are ONLY ALLOWED TO GET FROM THE PACKAGES and never trade for? The "gamble" is balanced out by being able to trade, swap, or buy from other collectors items you want that you didn't get in your purchased packages. The value of the item is subjective, of course. However you will be able to find the item you want, and decide if the price of the trade or sale is one you are willing to pay.

Clown crates are not equivalent.

Items from the clown crates are instantly bound to your account.

Items from the clown crates CAN NOT BE TRADED to other players.

Items from the clown crates can not be deleted/destroyed/discarded.

There are items in the clown crates that CAN NOT be obtained by trading duplicate items back for the additional game currency of gems.

Items from the clown crates CAN NOT be purchased or traded for from other players. No matter what you are willing to spend.

Really, getting free clown crates isn't anything to be exceedingly grateful for. Rng rules; if you're blessed by rngesus, congrats. If you aren't, oh well. At least you didn't have to pay for them.

So you're cherry-picking the aspect of Crown Crates not being tradeable whereas CCG card packs are. There's really no need to dive into the other similarities they share beyond that because you don't seem interested in discussing them. The basic concept of buying something with random goodies comes from buying collectible card packs in the 20th century. It's not new and it's certainly not nefarious.

Anyway, it was free, you hate it, and I'm going to find me some "sweet tasty meat" because @Tavore1138 made me hungry.

Storymaster

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Again, you try to argue against logic. I'm not falling for that.
What kind of value are you speaking of ?

I am not arguing against logic, @anitajoneb17_ESO. If someone opens a Crown Crate and enjoys or uses anything at all within them, then by definition the Crown Crates have value. They value the costume, the xp scroll, the triple attribute pot, the rare mount, and so forth. Subsequently, by monetary definition of value, any item can be converted into a form of currency with which other things can be purchased. That's the definition of value. The Crown Crates, by definition, have value.

Now it sounds like the Crown Crates do not have value to you in your opinion because they cannot be traded to other players, and that is also true.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Storymaster wrote: »

So you're cherry-picking the aspect of Crown Crates not being tradeable whereas CCG card packs are.

It's not cherry-picking. It's a core, essential difference, which makes one system "fair" and the other one forced towards more purchase of more RNG.

Storymaster wrote: »

It's not new and it's certainly not nefarious.

"Nefarious" ? probably too strong a word, but certainly unfair. The house always wins.

Storymaster wrote: »

Anyway, it was free, you hate it, and I'm going to find me some "sweet tasty meat" because @Tavore1138 made me hungry.

He doesn't hate it. He simply states it's a trap which it is.
Enjoy your meal though ;-)

Storymaster

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Enjoy your meal though ;-)

Thank you!

anitajoneb17_ESO

Storymaster wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Again, you try to argue against logic. I'm not falling for that.
What kind of value are you speaking of ?

Subsequently, by monetary definition of value, any item can be converted into a form of currency with which other things can be purchased. That's the definition of value. The Crown Crates, by definition, have value.

But you're 100% WRONG here. They CANNOT be traded into any form of currency with which other things can be purchased. They CANNOT. That's the point. If you purchase a crate, you cannot trade it back with ZOS or any other player. Ever. It has no value. It's just an expense, not an asset.
As to the items themselves, if you get a memento, a costume, a mount or whatever else that you don't already own, it goes straight into your inventory and CANNOT be traded against any kind of currency. Even if you don't like it and will never ever use it in the game.

You seem to be talking about stuff that you don't really know about.

Storymaster

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Storymaster wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Again, you try to argue against logic. I'm not falling for that.
What kind of value are you speaking of ?

Subsequently, by monetary definition of value, any item can be converted into a form of currency with which other things can be purchased. That's the definition of value. The Crown Crates, by definition, have value.

But you're 100% WRONG here. They CANNOT be traded into any form of currency with which other things can be purchased. They CANNOT. That's the point. If you purchase a crate, you cannot trade it back with ZOS or any other player. Ever. It has no value. It's just an expense, not an asset.
As to the items themselves, if you get a memento, a costume, a mount or whatever else that you don't already own, it goes straight into your inventory and CANNOT be traded against any kind of currency. Even if you don't like it and will never ever use it in the game.

You seem to be talking about stuff that you don't really know about.

They can be converted into gems (a currency) with which you can purchase things from the Crown Store. Gems are not a currency that can be used to purchase things from other players, but they are, by definition, a currency.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Storymaster wrote: »

They can be converted into gems (a currency) with which you can purchase things from the Crown Store. Gems are not a currency that can be used to purchase things from other players, but they are, by definition, a currency.

And I repeat : You are wrong ! Some items can be converted, but most items CANNOT be converted UNLESS they're duplicates; and also some items CANNOT be bought with those gems.
You. Are. Wrong.

Storymaster

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Storymaster wrote: »

They can be converted into gems (a currency) with which you can purchase things from the Crown Store. Gems are not a currency that can be used to purchase things from other players, but they are, by definition, a currency.

And I repeat : You are wrong ! Some items can be converted, but most items CANNOT be converted UNLESS they're duplicates; and also some items CANNOT be bought with those gems.
You. Are. Wrong.

Everything I received in my free crown crates could be converted to gems. Only one was a duplicate.

Flowersquisher

OP, first off, nice job trolling. You managed to *** off a few people, lol.

That aside, you are NOT going to see someone come to the forums and make a post about gratitude for free crates, just not going happen. All you are going to see, as you posted, is people angry with the system. A system which is very controversial and to some if not most, toxic.

If you don't want to read about others disapproval, why do you??

anitajoneb17_ESO

Storymaster wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Storymaster wrote: »

They can be converted into gems (a currency) with which you can purchase things from the Crown Store. Gems are not a currency that can be used to purchase things from other players, but they are, by definition, a currency.

And I repeat : You are wrong ! Some items can be converted, but most items CANNOT be converted UNLESS they're duplicates; and also some items CANNOT be bought with those gems.
You. Are. Wrong.

Everything I received in my free crown crates could be converted to gems. Only one was a duplicate.

Which means you got only one item that happened to be a duplicate, and everything else was junk consumables.
If you had received anything costume, pet, mount, emote, etc... that wasn't a duplicate, you would not have been able to trade it for gems, whether you wanted it or not.
Do some research. You're really talking about stuff you don't know about here, and basing the entire conversation on your wrong premises.

Storymaster

Flowersquisher wrote: »

OP, first off, nice job trolling. You managed to *** off a few people, lol.

That aside, you are NOT going to see someone come to the forums and make a post about gratitude for free crates, just not going happen. All you are going to see, as you posted, is people angry with the system. A system which is very controversial and to some if not most, toxic.

If you don't want to read about others disapproval, why do you??

Hello, @Flowersquisher ! I invite you to re-read the majority of this thread. Based on your response, there may have been some important aspects of the discussion you missed out on!

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Which means you got only one item that happened to be a duplicate, and everything else was junk consumables.
If you had received anything costume, pet, mount, emote, etc... that wasn't a duplicate, you would not have been able to trade it for gems, whether you wanted it or not.
Do some research. You're really talking about stuff you don't know about here, and basing the entire conversation on your wrong premises.

Again, I would like to reiterate that by definition the Crown Crates possess inherent value. It's okay if you don't appreciate their inherent value therein and find that it personally holds no value to you, but you cannot remove fundamental attributes from something that exists simply because you dislike it. If that was the case, lima beans would vanish from the prime material plane.

JKorr

Storymaster wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Storymaster wrote: »

They can be converted into gems (a currency) with which you can purchase things from the Crown Store. Gems are not a currency that can be used to purchase things from other players, but they are, by definition, a currency.

And I repeat : You are wrong ! Some items can be converted, but most items CANNOT be converted UNLESS they're duplicates; and also some items CANNOT be bought with those gems.
You. Are. Wrong.

Everything I received in my free crown crates could be converted to gems. Only one was a duplicate.

So you received one duplicate, and all the rest of the items you got were consumables.

If you don't have a duplicate of a costume, hat, monocle, skin, hairstyle, beard, pet or any other item that is not a consumable, you can not convert it to gems.

The original PTS thread about the clown crates should still be around. I can't recall exactly for how long, but for people who tested the clown crates, you got 5500 crowns every day to buy crates. People tracked what they received for the length of the trial that was at least 10 days. When people started giving feedback about the several hundreds of poisons, potions, and food they got that wasn't as good as what the crafters could make, and how pointless it was to have all of those useless items bound to the account, Gina did say they would consider the feedback. And so the "trade consumables for gems" started. However you are still stuck with all the costumes, hats, and anything that isn't a consumable instantly bound in your collection.

Here you go: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/25871

Whenever you purchase a Crown Crate, you will always be awarded four items, with the chance to get a fifth item. In the event you receive a mount, pet, costume or personality that you already own from your Crown Crate, you'll be awarded a new resource - Crown Gems - in its place. You will also have the option to convert several items obtained from Crown Crates to Crown Gems any time you want. Items that can be manually converted include potions, poisons, riding lessons, experience scrolls, and other utility-type items. Any Crown Gems you earn can then be used to purchase the collectible items of your choosing from the current Crown Crate season.

Nowhere does it say you can convert everything and anything to gems.

And for the "can't be bought with gems" announcement: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/26101

In addition to the Apex rewards listed above, you may also reveal one of these very rare mounts, which are currently only obtainable as a reward from a Dwarven Crown Crate

Pops_ND_Irish

If its free, they complain
Even if they paid some to take things, they would complain
Whiners will whine no matter what.
They are not happy, if thats possible, unless they do.

Storymaster

JKorr wrote: »

So you received one duplicate, and all the rest of the items you got were consumables.

If you don't have a duplicate of a costume, hat, monocle, skin, hairstyle, beard, pet or any other item that is not a consumable, you can not convert it to gems.

Right, but the gems alone aren't what inherently give the crates value, by definition. It was just an aside to my comment.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Storymaster wrote: »

Right, but the gems alone aren't what inherently give the crates value, by definition. It was just an aside to my comment.

The gems were the only argument you had to pretend that the crates have value. It wasn't an aside. It looks that you don't know anymore how to escape from this discussion, where all you premises have been proven invalid.

Storymaster wrote: »

Again, I would like to reiterate that by definition the Crown Crates possess inherent value.

Which is entirely wrong. Not an opinion. Not a point of view. Not a perspective. Not a like or dislike issue. Just a fact. You're wrong.
Let's leave it at that. You won't listen nor reason, so let's just leave it at that.

Storymaster

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Storymaster wrote: »

Right, but the gems alone aren't what inherently give the crates value, by definition. It was just an aside to my comment.

The gems were the only argument you had to pretend that the crates have value. It wasn't an aside. It looks that you don't know anymore how to escape from this discussion, where all you premises have been proven invalid.

Storymaster wrote: »

Again, I would like to reiterate that by definition the Crown Crates possess inherent value.

Which is entirely wrong. Not an opinion. Not a point of view. Not a perspective. Not a like or dislike issue. Just a fact. You're wrong.
Let's leave it at that. You won't listen nor reason, so let's just leave it at that.

Try as you might, you cannot derive folks of the value they find in the Crown Crates. For instance, I value the experience scrolls and pots that I received, to say little of the costumes and raven memento. A friend of mine values the Sheogorath costume and skeletal mount she received. And my wife values the costumes that she received in her free crown crates.

Elsonso

SodanTok wrote: »

Dota2 economy is literally based only on crates. Nearly all items come from crates there. Guess why there was prizepool of nearly 25M USD (which is just 25% of sales). Because people were buying stuff to get more items. Most of which were again coming from crates.

Oddly enough, this is the reason my friends and family have given for why they don't play Dota2 anymore. Unless you are constantly buying crates, you can't compete. I never played, so I can't speak from personal experience.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Storymaster wrote: »

Try as you might, you cannot derive folks of the value they find in the Crown Crates. For instance, I value the experience scrolls and pots that I received, to say little of the costumes and raven memento. A friend of mine values the Sheogorath costume and skeletal mount she received. And my wife values the costumes that she received in her free crown crates.

That's not economical value. That's emotional value or usage value. A sort of synonym for "like". Not inherent value.

Cadbury

Heehee I love these types of threads. And on a Friday no less.
I will say (to keep it OT) that the Dreadhorn face tattoo I got from the free crates is my favorite face tattoo.

But please, carry on...