Stamina builds dead for Trials?

x_Demogorgon_x

I have been running Magicka characters for so long I want to make another stamina build for Trials and such. Was thinking about stamina templar. What do y’all think? Stam builds even worth it?

Vapirko

No they’re not. Currently have the highest single target dps but lack aoe dps.

x_Demogorgon_x

Awesome. All I need to hear. Wanted to build stamplar for a while

SienneYviete

Vapirko wrote: »

No they’re not. Currently have the highest single target dps but lack aoe dps.

Completely false, their aoe is extremely strong and generally raids now are built upon having an abundance of stamina dps.

theamazingx

Top tier raids run tons of stam because they potential is so high right now. The main limiting factor is that both support and dps have to be on point without the crutch of damage shields. For an example, if you have 5 stam in Rakkhat hm, but still can't skip lunar, you're going to have a bad time. 75% heal reduction on half a team that doesn't have shields is not fun. If it's just vet craglorns you're doing, no real downside outside of a group that handles Warrior execute poorly.

phidonk526

Vapirko wrote: »

No they’re not. Currently have the highest single target dps but lack aoe dps.

Not necessarily true, my stam sorc says hi

idk

It is hard to find a trial that does not have several stam in the group. In Hodor's recent WF Tick-Tock Tormentor (vHoF speed run) achievement they had 5 melee, all looked like stam. Stam rocks in trials. The DPS difference when having a few stam in the group is noticeable.

Testing on a dummy does not truly show what they can do. Well organized groups have one player with high crit chance running NMG and another player using Sunder which greatly increases the stam dps.

Izaki

idk wrote: »

It is hard to find a trial that does not have several stam in the group. In Hodor's recent WF Tick-Tock Tormentor (vHoF speed run) achievement they had 5 melee, all looked like stam. Stam rocks in trials. The DPS difference when having a few stam in the group is noticeable.

Testing on a dummy does not truly show what they can do. Well organized groups have one player with high crit chance running NMG and another player using Sunder which greatly increases the stam dps.

Oh group optimization goes much farther than just NMG + Sunderflame, many more sets to use to increase overall group DPS. War Machine, Alkosh, Morag Tong, Powerful Assault, etc.

To answer your question OP: stamina builds are great in trials, they have insane ST damage, fairly high AoE damage and pretty good survivability. Most good groups run at least 4 sometimes 5 stamina DPS in raids.

SoLooney

stam dps have made a comeback since morrowind though it seems like most trial groups would rather have stam dks for their amazing single target damage and stamplar for power of the light

AverageJo3Gam3r

Meanwhile, my trials group is complaining that the only reason to bring mag dps is for lightning damage to proc vulnerability.

Izaki

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

Meanwhile, my trials group is complaining that the only reason to bring mag dps is for lightning damage to proc vulnerability.

And AoE burst damage (because Destro ult is still the best way to burst adds and the boss at the same time) and mechanics (chain lightning for example).

People acting as if Ranged DPS wasn't important.

SirCritical

The nonHM vet Cragtrials are clearly doable with 5-6 stam melee DDs.

Destruent

SirCritical wrote: »

The nonHM vet Cragtrials are clearly doable with 5-6 stam melee DDs.

Every trial is doable with 5 Stam-Melee character...even on vet/HM.

AverageJo3Gam3r

@Izaki it makes me sad that ranged dps = magicka. #buffbow

Destruent

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

@Izaki it makes me sad that ranged dps = magicka. #buffbow

Buff magicka-melee-dps

Zer0oo

Destruent wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

@Izaki it makes me sad that ranged dps = magicka. #buffbow

Buff magicka-melee-dps

Buff all classes and specs so you can play the class you like most and let the skill-level more or less decide who has the highest dps?

Hixtory

Vapirko wrote: »

No they’re not. Currently have the highest single target dps but lack aoe dps.

False, Organized groups run at least 3 stamina toons wearing sets like:

1 NMG
1 Morag Tong
1 Sunderflame

Pair it with VO and you can run without TFS, as with all the debuffs that would be a dps loss.

Izaki

Zer0oo wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

@Izaki it makes me sad that ranged dps = magicka. #buffbow

Buff magicka-melee-dps

Buff all classes and specs so you can play the class you like most and let the skill-level more or less decide who has the highest dps?

Mag DKs are actually pretty close to Stam DKs. The only reason the latter is referred is the abundance of group buffs and especially Morag Tong.

FakeFox

Stamina is currently very strong. You usually have some Magickas in trials as they can executel some special roles better and running with 8-9 Melees isn't fun either, but Stamina dominates in pure DPS.

Jawasa

My guild is casual so people come with what They want but normaly we have 4-5 melee and 3-4 range dps. Range dps is allways mag melee is mostly stam but one or two mag temp/dk.

theamazingx

Izaki wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

@Izaki it makes me sad that ranged dps = magicka. #buffbow

Buff magicka-melee-dps

Buff all classes and specs so you can play the class you like most and let the skill-level more or less decide who has the highest dps?

Mag DKs are actually pretty close to Stam DKs. The only reason the latter is referred is the abundance of group buffs and especially Morag Tong.

And that magdks rely on steady offbalance to sustain at all, something that just won't be there with a couple heavyweaving stam or more than one fellow magdk in the group. That's the biggest drawback right now.

On the bright side, a magdk with a shock wall and infused shock enchant can carry almost any pug, and being a dunmer means you can swap between stam and mag very easily.

Izaki

theamazingx wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

@Izaki it makes me sad that ranged dps = magicka. #buffbow

Buff magicka-melee-dps

Buff all classes and specs so you can play the class you like most and let the skill-level more or less decide who has the highest dps?

Mag DKs are actually pretty close to Stam DKs. The only reason the latter is referred is the abundance of group buffs and especially Morag Tong.

And that magdks rely on steady offbalance to sustain at all, something that just won't be there with a couple heavyweaving stam or more than one fellow magdk in the group. That's the biggest drawback right now.

On the bright side, a magdk with a shock wall and infused shock enchant can carry almost any pug, and being a dunmer means you can swap between stam and mag very easily.

Stam DKs rely on Off-Balance for a big part of their DPS as well. Heavy attacks are 75% stronger with Off-balance and they make up over 25% of a Stam DKs DPS. Of course, its not nearly as crucial for Stam as it is for Mag, like you said Mag DKs rely on it for their sustain.
Off-balance still has very high uptimes as long as you have enough Blockades of Storm in the group. Once CWC goes live, the Asylum staff will provide 100% oftime on Concussion. From this point, 4 Blockades of Storms (2 Sorcs, 2 Healers) is enough to reach roughly 70-80% Off-balance uptime.

paulsimonps

Having this 4 man combo in Trials is something I would recommend:

Stam DK wearing Sunderflame
Stam Sorc Wearing NMG+Morag Tong
Stamplar wearing Warmachine
Stam NB wearing Warmachine

Gives you all the buff/debuff sets and buffs from the different classes. Together they will all do a lot of damage.

Izaki

paulsimonps wrote: »

Having this 4 man combo in Trials is something I would recommend:

Stam DK wearing Sunderflame
Stam Sorc Wearing NMG+Morag Tong
Stamplar wearing Warmachine
Stam NB wearing Warmachine

Gives you all the buff/debuff sets and buffs from the different classes. Together they will all do a lot of damage.

Replace the Sorc with another DK and you'll get quite a fair bit more overall group damage.

idk

Izaki wrote: »

idk wrote: »

It is hard to find a trial that does not have several stam in the group. In Hodor's recent WF Tick-Tock Tormentor (vHoF speed run) achievement they had 5 melee, all looked like stam. Stam rocks in trials. The DPS difference when having a few stam in the group is noticeable.

Testing on a dummy does not truly show what they can do. Well organized groups have one player with high crit chance running NMG and another player using Sunder which greatly increases the stam dps.

Oh group optimization goes much farther than just NMG + Sunderflame, many more sets to use to increase overall group DPS. War Machine, Alkosh, Morag Tong, Powerful Assault, etc.

To answer your question OP: stamina builds are great in trials, they have insane ST damage, fairly high AoE damage and pretty good survivability. Most good groups run at least 4 sometimes 5 stamina DPS in raids.

I am aware of all the sets, just did not see a point to adding everything possible though MT is stam specific, not the entire group since magicka does not exactly do poison damage.

Also, I am not a big fan of PA except for the most organized groups that handle the content well. The small amount of added damage to maybe 3 dps is not much help unless the group is very familiar with the fights and handles the mechanics well which is a small percentage of raiders.

Zer0oo

Izaki wrote: »

theamazingx wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

@Izaki it makes me sad that ranged dps = magicka. #buffbow

Buff magicka-melee-dps

Buff all classes and specs so you can play the class you like most and let the skill-level more or less decide who has the highest dps?

Mag DKs are actually pretty close to Stam DKs. The only reason the latter is referred is the abundance of group buffs and especially Morag Tong.

And that magdks rely on steady offbalance to sustain at all, something that just won't be there with a couple heavyweaving stam or more than one fellow magdk in the group. That's the biggest drawback right now.

On the bright side, a magdk with a shock wall and infused shock enchant can carry almost any pug, and being a dunmer means you can swap between stam and mag very easily.

Stam DKs rely on Off-Balance for a big part of their DPS as well. Heavy attacks are 75% stronger with Off-balance and they make up over 25% of a Stam DKs DPS. Of course, its not nearly as crucial for Stam as it is for Mag, like you said Mag DKs rely on it for their sustain.
Off-balance still has very high uptimes as long as you have enough Blockades of Storm in the group. Once CWC goes live, the Asylum staff will provide 100% oftime on Concussion. From this point, 4 Blockades of Storms (2 Sorcs, 2 Healers) is enough to reach roughly 70-80% Off-balance uptime.

So 6 stam dd+2 range mag dd trial grps incoming?

Izaki

Zer0oo wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

theamazingx wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

@Izaki it makes me sad that ranged dps = magicka. #buffbow

Buff magicka-melee-dps

Buff all classes and specs so you can play the class you like most and let the skill-level more or less decide who has the highest dps?

Mag DKs are actually pretty close to Stam DKs. The only reason the latter is referred is the abundance of group buffs and especially Morag Tong.

And that magdks rely on steady offbalance to sustain at all, something that just won't be there with a couple heavyweaving stam or more than one fellow magdk in the group. That's the biggest drawback right now.

On the bright side, a magdk with a shock wall and infused shock enchant can carry almost any pug, and being a dunmer means you can swap between stam and mag very easily.

Stam DKs rely on Off-Balance for a big part of their DPS as well. Heavy attacks are 75% stronger with Off-balance and they make up over 25% of a Stam DKs DPS. Of course, its not nearly as crucial for Stam as it is for Mag, like you said Mag DKs rely on it for their sustain.
Off-balance still has very high uptimes as long as you have enough Blockades of Storm in the group. Once CWC goes live, the Asylum staff will provide 100% oftime on Concussion. From this point, 4 Blockades of Storms (2 Sorcs, 2 Healers) is enough to reach roughly 70-80% Off-balance uptime.

So 6 stam dd+2 range mag dd trial grps incoming?

Good luck with having that much melee. I'd say that the maximum is 5 stam and that's not even doable is most of the raids.

paulsimonps

Izaki wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Having this 4 man combo in Trials is something I would recommend:

Stam DK wearing Sunderflame
Stam Sorc Wearing NMG+Morag Tong
Stamplar wearing Warmachine
Stam NB wearing Warmachine

Gives you all the buff/debuff sets and buffs from the different classes. Together they will all do a lot of damage.

Replace the Sorc with another DK and you'll get quite a fair bit more overall group damage.

Sorcs are far better at applying NMG than the DK though in fights with lots of Trash or Adds, their extra AoE with Hurricane. I've seen them pull just a few k less than DKs so the extra up time on NMG can very much so be worth it. NB I think is the only one I am unsure of.

paulsimonps

Zer0oo wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

theamazingx wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

@Izaki it makes me sad that ranged dps = magicka. #buffbow

Buff magicka-melee-dps

Buff all classes and specs so you can play the class you like most and let the skill-level more or less decide who has the highest dps?

Mag DKs are actually pretty close to Stam DKs. The only reason the latter is referred is the abundance of group buffs and especially Morag Tong.

And that magdks rely on steady offbalance to sustain at all, something that just won't be there with a couple heavyweaving stam or more than one fellow magdk in the group. That's the biggest drawback right now.

On the bright side, a magdk with a shock wall and infused shock enchant can carry almost any pug, and being a dunmer means you can swap between stam and mag very easily.

Stam DKs rely on Off-Balance for a big part of their DPS as well. Heavy attacks are 75% stronger with Off-balance and they make up over 25% of a Stam DKs DPS. Of course, its not nearly as crucial for Stam as it is for Mag, like you said Mag DKs rely on it for their sustain.
Off-balance still has very high uptimes as long as you have enough Blockades of Storm in the group. Once CWC goes live, the Asylum staff will provide 100% oftime on Concussion. From this point, 4 Blockades of Storms (2 Sorcs, 2 Healers) is enough to reach roughly 70-80% Off-balance uptime.

So 6 stam dd+2 range mag dd trial grps incoming?

Can't stack too many Stamina DPS toons in a lot of the fights. Their anti stack mechanics will rip you to shreds.

Izaki

paulsimonps wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Having this 4 man combo in Trials is something I would recommend:

Stam DK wearing Sunderflame
Stam Sorc Wearing NMG+Morag Tong
Stamplar wearing Warmachine
Stam NB wearing Warmachine

Gives you all the buff/debuff sets and buffs from the different classes. Together they will all do a lot of damage.

Replace the Sorc with another DK and you'll get quite a fair bit more overall group damage.

Sorcs are far better at applying NMG than the DK though in fights with lots of Trash or Adds, their extra AoE with Hurricane. I've seen them pull just a few k less than DKs so the extra up time on NMG can very much so be worth it. NB I think is the only one I am unsure of.

Caltrops, Endless Hail, Deadly Cloak and Steel Tornado already apply NMG with basically 100% uptime on trash packs though. In boss fights, most important adds will be stacked on boss, which means they will be getting hit by Hail, Caltrops, Noxious Breath and Deadly Cloak, which means that NMG uptime will be basically the same as it is on Sorc. Plus there's no point in running Morag Tong with only 1 Stam DK in the group... Non DKs might gain 1k-1.5k DPS tops from this set, whereas DKs gain up to 3k. I mean AoE is important, but there are Destro ults for that, Stam job is the ST DPS and frankly DKs do it better than Sorcs...

NBs are insanely high DPS nowadays, they are basically the same as DKs and their burst in the execute phases is really noticeable (I mean 75k Killer's Blades when Incap + War Machine is applied? Its ridiculous). And with Soul Harvest they can provide very high uptimes on War Machine in fights with lots of adds (AA HM: Atro and Reflection dies = 24 Ult, Potion = 20 Ult. That leaves 26 ult to be gained which is basically 9 seconds, aka 100% uptime on WM). Definitely a must have. Not to mention that they rival and often surpass DKs in single target DPS as well as having great sustain and survivability (as good as Sorcs to be honest) with Leeching Strikes and Shadow Barrier.

Zer0oo

paulsimonps wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

theamazingx wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

@Izaki it makes me sad that ranged dps = magicka. #buffbow

Buff magicka-melee-dps

Buff all classes and specs so you can play the class you like most and let the skill-level more or less decide who has the highest dps?

Mag DKs are actually pretty close to Stam DKs. The only reason the latter is referred is the abundance of group buffs and especially Morag Tong.

And that magdks rely on steady offbalance to sustain at all, something that just won't be there with a couple heavyweaving stam or more than one fellow magdk in the group. That's the biggest drawback right now.

On the bright side, a magdk with a shock wall and infused shock enchant can carry almost any pug, and being a dunmer means you can swap between stam and mag very easily.

Stam DKs rely on Off-Balance for a big part of their DPS as well. Heavy attacks are 75% stronger with Off-balance and they make up over 25% of a Stam DKs DPS. Of course, its not nearly as crucial for Stam as it is for Mag, like you said Mag DKs rely on it for their sustain.
Off-balance still has very high uptimes as long as you have enough Blockades of Storm in the group. Once CWC goes live, the Asylum staff will provide 100% oftime on Concussion. From this point, 4 Blockades of Storms (2 Sorcs, 2 Healers) is enough to reach roughly 70-80% Off-balance uptime.

So 6 stam dd+2 range mag dd trial grps incoming?

Can't stack too many Stamina DPS toons in a lot of the fights. Their anti stack mechanics will rip you to shreds.

Just curios what trial would really prevent 6 melees? Many of those not stacking mechanics can be avoided. For example vmol first boss you could do with as many meele as you like if they watch the animation for curses and spread in this phase.(Maybe not as easy as having less melee but not really too hard)