buff darkshades (Summon shade NB skill)

boaz733

Summon two shade versions of yourself that will run slowly to your target and never touch it , since walking speed is faster than them or in PVE reach the target and deal no damage.
u cannot avoid running shadow image which has no dmg delay since its range + cool activation

platonicidealgirlfriend

also let me cast the teleport version whenever so i can bamf around town like nightcrawler

idk

Odd. Unless they were nerfed last update the shades did decent single target damage for their cost and cast time. In multi target fights twisted path was doing better due to it being an AoE.

I need to go back and check the patch notes I guess.

Silver_Strider

Make them behave exactly like the shade mobs that appear at the end of Fungal Grotto 2 with Teleport Strike to reach their target quicker and a Soul Tether Ultimate that you can active by hitting the summon button again for an AoE stun or root but with no damage done, just a pure CC.

This would do a few things.

1. It would give NB tanks some much needed CC for controlling mobs
2. It would make the shades be able to actually reach their target to damage them, especially when going against a highly mobile enemy like Lord Warden.

Maybe a bit of an overbuff but after all the other nerfs NB are constantly shackled with, this **** is needed.
Barring this, have the shades return Stamina on each hit.

Feanor

Key word is buff them for PvE. They are already good in PvP.

arkansas_ESO

Feanor wrote: »

Key word is buff them for PvE. They are already good in PvP.

Shadow Image is good for PVP, the other morph is never used since there's no reason to

Crazy suggestion that might need to be tweaked: make the Dark Shades morph apply some debuff (Minor Maim?) to all targets that attack the player. This makes the choice between the two morphs clear: Shadow Image is the mobile DPS morph, Dark Shades is the slow-moving tank morph.

RavenSworn

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Key word is buff them for PvE. They are already good in PvP.

Shadow Image is good for PVP, the other morph is never used since there's no reason to

Crazy suggestion that might need to be tweaked: make the Dark Shades morph apply some debuff (Minor Maim?) to all targets that attack the player. This makes the choice between the two morphs clear: Shadow Image is the mobile DPS morph, Dark Shades is the slow-moving tank morph.

I checked the ability and it does deal minor maim for the dark shades morph. My suggestion is to have a secondary ability, much like shadow image, only this will instead deal a spinning attack that will deal that minor maim aoe. Think shadow clannfear from the monster helm.

They also need to have a teleport strike animation (without the cc) upon being summoned if target is further than 5 metres.

actosh

RavenSworn wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Key word is buff them for PvE. They are already good in PvP.

Shadow Image is good for PVP, the other morph is never used since there's no reason to

Crazy suggestion that might need to be tweaked: make the Dark Shades morph apply some debuff (Minor Maim?) to all targets that attack the player. This makes the choice between the two morphs clear: Shadow Image is the mobile DPS morph, Dark Shades is the slow-moving tank morph.

I checked the ability and it does deal minor maim for the dark shades morph. My suggestion is to have a secondary ability, much like shadow image, only this will instead deal a spinning attack that will deal that minor maim aoe. Think shadow clannfear from the monster helm.

They also need to have a teleport strike animation (without the cc) upon being summoned if target is further than 5 metres.

Suggested the shades with aoe maim for a while but zos wont listen ^^

RavenSworn

actosh wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Key word is buff them for PvE. They are already good in PvP.

Shadow Image is good for PVP, the other morph is never used since there's no reason to

Crazy suggestion that might need to be tweaked: make the Dark Shades morph apply some debuff (Minor Maim?) to all targets that attack the player. This makes the choice between the two morphs clear: Shadow Image is the mobile DPS morph, Dark Shades is the slow-moving tank morph.

I checked the ability and it does deal minor maim for the dark shades morph. My suggestion is to have a secondary ability, much like shadow image, only this will instead deal a spinning attack that will deal that minor maim aoe. Think shadow clannfear from the monster helm.

They also need to have a teleport strike animation (without the cc) upon being summoned if target is further than 5 metres.

Suggested the shades with aoe maim for a while but zos wont listen ^^

which is weird given that the utility the shades gives does not outweigh any other benefits it gives to the nb. It's not like the dual shades deal more damage or attack two different targets.

one that deals lower aoe damage but far better utility, the other dealing higher damage but single target and with secondary effect. It should have been a no brainer.

actosh

Im all for it that shades work the suggested way

Lucky28

how about remove one of the shades. and make it so the shade mirrors the caster. So the caster uses swallow soul the shade uses swallow soul, the caster uses lotus/concealed the shade uses lotus/concealed. with reduced damage of course, that would be pretty cool and useful.

shinikaze

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Key word is buff them for PvE. They are already good in PvP.

Shadow Image is good for PVP, the other morph is never used since there's no reason to

It's situacional not good. skill needs a target, will instantly aa said target (breaking stealth), awkward long animation.
I've seen some people ddoing crazy *** with it but lately almost no one use it at all.

How about making the skill ground target, and instead of summoning a dummy that can be targeted (destroyed), second cast would swap nb with dummy and make it explode dealing lil damage.

boaz733

It's situacional not good. skill needs a target, will instantly aa said target (breaking stealth), awkward long animation.
I've seen some people ddoing crazy *** with it but lately almost no one use it at all.

How about making the skill ground target, and instead of summoning a dummy that can be targeted (destroyed), second cast would swap nb with dummy and make it explode dealing lil damage.

sound cool.

PS4_ZeColmeia

shades are invunerable, what they need is the pet treatment that helm pets got. i personally, like both morphs for what they are except for the paltry damage.

Maryal

RavenSworn wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Key word is buff them for PvE. They are already good in PvP.

Shadow Image is good for PVP, the other morph is never used since there's no reason to

Crazy suggestion that might need to be tweaked: make the Dark Shades morph apply some debuff (Minor Maim?) to all targets that attack the player. This makes the choice between the two morphs clear: Shadow Image is the mobile DPS morph, Dark Shades is the slow-moving tank morph.

I checked the ability and it does deal minor maim for the dark shades morph. My suggestion is to have a secondary ability, much like shadow image, only this will instead deal a spinning attack that will deal that minor maim aoe. Think shadow clannfear from the monster helm.

They also need to have a teleport strike animation (without the cc) upon being summoned if target is further than 5 metres.

Suggested the shades with aoe maim for a while but zos wont listen ^^

which is weird given that the utility the shades gives does not outweigh any other benefits it gives to the nb. It's not like the dual shades deal more damage or attack two different targets.

one that deals lower aoe damage but far better utility, the other dealing higher damage but single target and with secondary effect. It should have been a no brainer.

The twin shades actually deal the highest level of damage 'per cast.' How much damage they do depends entirely on your build, but even with that, the skill is not about damage ... it is a utility skill.

It takes a bit of practice, but once you learn how, you can use the shades to kite mobs, or keep mobs preoccupied while you deal with others (undaunted dungeons for example). This is possible, in part, because both shades focus on a single target and together they can deal sufficient damage to get/keep agro. I use them to kite mobs, or keep mobs preoccupied while I deal with others. When you are in a large room of a dungeon, look around. Often times you will see groups or clusters of mobs scattered around the area. Generally speaking, each 'cluster' has its own area of agro that you (the player) need to learn. Once you have figured that out, you can use the shades to keep part of a given cluster occupied while you deal with the other part ... this works as long as you don't trigger another cluster's 'area of agro.'

In addition, sometimes a final boss will spawn trash mobs and they all want a piece of you all at the same time ... the twin shades can help kite some of these trash mobs (although they focus on a single target, other nearby mobs will usually try to kill the shades ... so, in essence, the shades are keeping several mobs preoccupied while you either a.) work your way around to kill all the trash mobs before killing the final boss, or you simply kill the final boss then deal with the trash mobs (if they don't despawn, that is).

I hope I'm not giving the impression that using the twin shades makes soloing 4-man dungeons 'a piece of cake' ... because they don't. The twin shades helps make soloing this stuff doable, and when you are able to do this, it is quite challenging and fun.

WreckfulAbandon

Lucky28 wrote: »

how about remove one of the shades. and make it so the shade mirrors the caster. So the caster uses swallow soul the shade uses swallow soul, the caster uses lotus/concealed the shade uses lotus/concealed. with reduced damage of course, that would be pretty cool and useful.

The mini-me's damage would have to be greatly reduced, as cool as it sounds. I don't want to get hit by a 15k will from player then a 7k will by their shade.

I think the teleporting shade is good as is for PvP, it's the most versatile escape skill in the game. But the twin shades morph could use a little love.

Gilvoth

boaz733 wrote: »

Summon two shade versions of yourself that will run slowly to your target and never touch it , since walking speed is faster than them or in PVE reach the target and deal no damage.
u cannot avoid running shadow image which has no dmg delay since its range + cool activation

i support this request.
in my hopes and wishes i would love to see those shades have constant ability to teleport to the enemy so they actually hit the enemy and do damage.
as of now they spend 90% of thier time just running toward enemy and never reaching enemy.
especially in pvp because all have to do is move away from them.
this does need a buff.

and also buff thier damage as well, right now those shades damage is just laughable and useless.

PS4_ZeColmeia

Maryal wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Key word is buff them for PvE. They are already good in PvP.

Shadow Image is good for PVP, the other morph is never used since there's no reason to

Crazy suggestion that might need to be tweaked: make the Dark Shades morph apply some debuff (Minor Maim?) to all targets that attack the player. This makes the choice between the two morphs clear: Shadow Image is the mobile DPS morph, Dark Shades is the slow-moving tank morph.

I checked the ability and it does deal minor maim for the dark shades morph. My suggestion is to have a secondary ability, much like shadow image, only this will instead deal a spinning attack that will deal that minor maim aoe. Think shadow clannfear from the monster helm.

They also need to have a teleport strike animation (without the cc) upon being summoned if target is further than 5 metres.

Suggested the shades with aoe maim for a while but zos wont listen ^^

which is weird given that the utility the shades gives does not outweigh any other benefits it gives to the nb. It's not like the dual shades deal more damage or attack two different targets.

one that deals lower aoe damage but far better utility, the other dealing higher damage but single target and with secondary effect. It should have been a no brainer.

The twin shades actually deal the highest level of damage 'per cast.' How much damage they do depends entirely on your build, but even with that, the skill is not about damage ... it is a utility skill.

It takes a bit of practice, but once you learn how, you can use the shades to kite mobs, or keep mobs preoccupied while you deal with others (undaunted dungeons for example). This is possible, in part, because both shades focus on a single target and together they can deal sufficient damage to get/keep agro. I use them to kite mobs, or keep mobs preoccupied while I deal with others. When you are in a large room of a dungeon, look around. Often times you will see groups or clusters of mobs scattered around the area. Generally speaking, each 'cluster' has its own area of agro that you (the player) need to learn. Once you have figured that out, you can use the shades to keep part of a given cluster occupied while you deal with the other part ... this works as long as you don't trigger another cluster's 'area of agro.'

In addition, sometimes a final boss will spawn trash mobs and they all want a piece of you all at the same time ... the twin shades can help kite some of these trash mobs (although they focus on a single target, other nearby mobs will usually try to kill the shades ... so, in essence, the shades are keeping several mobs preoccupied while you either a.) work your way around to kill all the trash mobs before killing the final boss, or you simply kill the final boss then deal with the trash mobs (if they don't despawn, that is).

I hope I'm not giving the impression that using the twin shades makes soloing 4-man dungeons 'a piece of cake' ... because they don't. The twin shades helps make soloing this stuff doable, and when you are able to do this, it is quite challenging and fun.

IMHO, Dark Shade is the utility PVE/PVP skill while Summon Shades is exclusively valuable in PvP as 3 people hitting on a blocking target drains stamina ultra fast, whereas dark shade doesn't drop stamina as fast but it has no travel time since it's a ranged shade.

mb10

They should probably do a low amount of oblivion damage because their damage at the moment is quite pathetic.

The tele morph is a bit weird and works when it feels like it, but the other morph needs its dps way higher to make it as much of a lucrative option as the tele shade is

Gilvoth

please increase thier damage and make them teleport to the enemy instead of running to the enemy.
please do this.

SanTii.92

Yeah, don't think we should keep buffing the overall, pve, pvp, both stam and mag, strongest class in the game.

exeeter702

Lucky28 wrote: »

how about remove one of the shades. and make it so the shade mirrors the caster. So the caster uses swallow soul the shade uses swallow soul, the caster uses lotus/concealed the shade uses lotus/concealed. with reduced damage of course, that would be pretty cool and useful.

Thematically / conceptually that sounds like a cool idea. Unfortunately in reality, you are basically asking for another "press this skill to do ×% more damage for y seconds". Not really usefull tbh as it would have to be particularly weak or cost a significant ammount of magicka.

Now, on the other hand if your proposed morph ambiguously split you into 2 where the shade was indistinguishable from the real NB for an allotted time where its hp matches that of the casters at all times, and uses the same abilites that the caster has slotted (but does not mirror the players use) we could be in the money XD. Im half kidding as that is a pipe dream. Creating a believable AI for pvp would be very hard.

Lucky28

exeeter702 wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

how about remove one of the shades. and make it so the shade mirrors the caster. So the caster uses swallow soul the shade uses swallow soul, the caster uses lotus/concealed the shade uses lotus/concealed. with reduced damage of course, that would be pretty cool and useful.

Thematically / conceptually that sounds like a cool idea. Unfortunately in reality, you are basically asking for another "press this skill to do ×% more damage for y seconds". Not really usefull tbh as it would have to be particularly weak or cost a significant ammount of magicka.

Now, on the other hand if your proposed morph ambiguously split you into 2 where the shade was indistinguishable from the real NB for an allotted time where its hp matches that of the casters at all times, and uses the same abilites that the caster has slotted (but does not mirror the players use) we could be in the money XD. Im half kidding as that is a pipe dream. Creating a believable AI for pvp would be very hard.

it would never happen regardless. if it did it would require regular tweaking (at least once a week) until the perfect balance was achieved and that's not how ZOS rolls.

boaz733

the simple solution to this might just be to increases shades movement speed by 50% and maybe +20% dmg.

ccfeeling

Just remove this skill , no need useless replacement , just like how run a company

Gilvoth

boaz733 wrote: »

the simple solution to this might just be to increases shades movement speed by 50% and maybe +20% dmg.

this ^

GreenSoup2HoT

Twin Shades could use a rework for sure. Like attacking different targets if there is multiple. Possibly immobilising their target if they hit someone 3 times.

Only Twin Shades is underwhelming though.

Rex-Umbra

Been asking for this for ever. Use for that Shadow Knight feeling but always feel like I should use some thing else.

Gilvoth

i hope this gets looked at.

Maryal

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Twin Shades could use a rework for sure. Like attacking different targets if there is multiple. Possibly immobilising their target if they hit someone 3 times.

Only Twin Shades is underwhelming though.

1.) If you split the twin shades up, you significantly lower the damage done to the target. Each 'twin' hits for 'x' amount of damage ... their combined efforts deal damage to a single target. If you split them up, you effectively lower the amount of damage they deal to their respective targets ... but keep in mind that this is a utility skill, not a damage skill.

2.) Although I really don't advocate for changing either the base skill or its morphs, if there were to be a change, it should only be to one morph. Most people asking for a change seem to be stamblades who are interested in using this magica-based skill in pvp. Despite the fact that some posts talk about making a change to the twin-shades morph, the one that is actually used most often in pvp is the one you can teleport to, so if we are changing one of the morphs, that's the one we pick.

In order to not have this skill end up becoming OP, the change should be kept simple and in line with how it currently functions ... make this morph scale off of stamina instead of magica. Once it becomes a stamina based morph, stamblades should see a noticeable increase in damage done by this shade. And ... because the shade in this morph wields a bow, it won't have to spend time chasing a moving target just to get in melee range. The shade's ability to inflict it's target with minor maim and the ability to teleport to this shade should remain unchanged.

---> ... and, no, ZOS isn't going to give NBs a class skill that deals oblivion damage.

As for the twin shades morph, I say it should be left 'as is' ... this morph is actually very useful and valuable as a utility skill for a rather niche play style (experienced players who enjoy soloing difficult pve content).

While most skills can and do fit a lot of play styles, there will generally be some that fit certain play styles better than others, and of those, there will always be a few that fit the more niche play styles the best.