Why PvP Will Never be Fair, Balanced, or Skill based

Waffennacht

bardx86 wrote: »

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Stamicka wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

Erm, ESO is a joke in terms of balance and skill, in pretty much every respect.

Now does that mean there is no skill, no, but it does mean it is low skilled compared to actual "skilled" games (compare it to SC2, fighting games, high level CS:GO, etc).

To have skilled play, first you need a gamemode that enables that, ESO does not have that, Cyrodll is obviously a joke in that regard, BG would need a huge overhaul to achieve that (none of this 3 team nonsense, actual matchmaking/rating system, etc).

Then you have the realities even if a player is trying to be "skillful" by the low standards of ESO, that is often laughable when people are literally waiting for skills to go off, let alone try and ani cancel with the lag in this game at times.

I mean just look at the playerbase (and this goes for pretty much every MMORPG), the percent of players that could even be vaguely termed "competitive" in PvP is absolutely tiny, guess what, that does not make for skilled PvP, spending most of your time fighting new/not very good players is not skilled.

If i go play a skilled PvP game, say SC2, the idea that GM players should be spending their time playing against bronze league is laughable, it is just considered a pointless waste of time by good skilled players, yet laughably in ESO that is what considered "skilled" by the joke playerbase, go see the delusional streamers for a fine example of this.

Also the simple fact that these baddies consider simply "fighting" as "skilled play", when outside of a handful of games with a really high skill cap on the combat (some fighting games for example, and no ESO comabt does not have a high skill cap), every successful, competitive, skilled PvP game uses maps/objectives etc to up the skill cap beyond mere combat so players have to have map awareness, multitask, etc, because combat alone is not all that.

And as for balance, please, a game that has balance patches every X months, that tries to balance between PvE & PvP, and between multiple types of play within those, balance is a joke, which just lower the skill cap in this game further.

Then on top of all that, you have the huge discrepancies in power thanks to things like CP and gear, which is totally contrary to the notion of skilled PvP.

ESO is a low skilled game, with laughable balance and a population that mostly has little to no interest in competitive skilled PvP, if you want skilled PvP you are playing the wrong game and the wrong genre, but are apparently too stupid / bad to realise it.

This last paragraph is basically what I'm trying to say. ESO is not competitively skilled, and cannot be without caps and some more changes. You can never have a fair playing ground when you can build your character as strong as you want. If you can get better stats than your opponent, you already have a better chance of winning. The game is all about builds now, skill is still somewhat involved, but when you win a fight it's often difficult to tell what got you the win, skill or better stats? In an actual competitive game this question would never come up.

In a since there are caps, only so much gear and so much CP allowed. The problem is that currently, damage isn't scaling to keep up with midigation.

Completely disagree.

NBs can have Will hit for above 15k against 2k impen
Sorcs are "OP" so they clearly can kill anything right?
Dk whips hit HARD
Templars can bleed you dry

Wardens are awesome and I haven't had troubles killing much of anything.

DHale

Skill is very much a part of the game. Most of the really good players can run average gear and still kill most everybody. Sypher can leave for months come back and he is still better than most everyone. Yo yui, German, Rhage, Kodi, Blabafat. Even when they don't play people are not catching up to them even with lots of practice.

Maryal

It doesn't matter whether or not 'super tanky builds' can kill an opposing player due to a lack of weapon damage ability ... they still ruin the game (pvp). They can use siege weapons to break into keeps, they can stand on the flag until it turns, and they can use siege weapons to kill other players as well as using them to kill NPCs. They can heal their 'killable' allies and they can use stalwart guard to help keep 'killable' allies alive. The list actually goes on, but I think I made my point.

Waffennacht

Maryal wrote: »

It doesn't matter whether or not 'super tanky builds' can kill an opposing player due to a lack of weapon damage ability ... they still ruin the game (pvp). They can use siege weapons to break into keeps, they can stand on the flag until it turns, and they can use siege weapons to kill other players as well as using them to kill NPCs. They can heal their 'killable' allies and they can use stalwart guard to help keep 'killable' allies alive. The list actually goes on, but I think I made my point.

Most "unkillable" builds are "unkillable" because the person trying o do the Killin is using a subpar build

nCats

The point is not to be balanced on the nose, no pvp game is.

The point is that there are many changes which would be simple to accomplish (remove AoE caps, reduce 7 days campaigns numbers, do not remove non cp bg in order to add cp ones, do tiny but crucial adjustments to some skills, introduce custom bg lobbys for tournaments etc), but they are not happening. It feels like pvp is abandoned, for the most part. I don't get why, especially given the community players are willing to help.

Drakkdjinn

PvP has more variety in builds and playstyles than PvE metas; its awesome.

CatchMeTrolling

At the moment at lot of issues go away in non cp bgs but people rather play with their cp.

Vizier

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

@bardx86

Can said supertanky builds kill you?

If neither of you can kill the other, then its balanced...


I know the Supertanky builds I've fought simply don't have enough burst to kill me...

I cant kill them, they cant kill me; we eventually just give up and go our own separate ways...

Ummm. There is no circumstance in which a build that takes 10-15 experienced PvPrs 5-10 minutes to bring down balanced. Also if there's any less than that the said tank gets kills. If it was balanced a glass cannon dps should be able to survive such a player without having to run away. Should be able to come close to bursting them down. They can't even come close. That would be "balance." ESO is not in any way shape or form "balanced."

Waffennacht

Vizier wrote: »

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TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

@bardx86

Can said supertanky builds kill you?

If neither of you can kill the other, then its balanced...


I know the Supertanky builds I've fought simply don't have enough burst to kill me...

I cant kill them, they cant kill me; we eventually just give up and go our own separate ways...

Ummm. There is no circumstance in which a build that takes 10-15 experienced PvPrs 5-10 minutes to bring down balanced. Also if there's any less than that the said tank gets kills. If it was balanced a glass cannon dps should be able to survive such a player without having to run away. Should be able to come close to bursting them down. They can't even come close. That would be "balance." ESO is not in any way shape or form "balanced."

I can think of only a hand full of builds that are capable of such a feat - and then it's only because the builds being used do not include a hard counter build.

E.g. if it's a permablocker build, it can only survive outnumbered odds if there isn't a bleed build there. If it's a meat bag type build (let's say you're facing 70k health build) someone with Knightslayer (7k Oblivion damage per heavy) will make that go much faster. If your crew has one or two shield breaker archers you'll drop a shieldstacker in seconds.

If you have a specialized crew, there shouldn't be unkillable tanks

Xsorus

Skill plays apart in this game, just like gear.. it's an rpg after all and is a completely different type of skill required then say something more kpm based like Starcraft.

Or twitch and accuracy based like say counter strike.

WeylandLabs

And that's the end of ESO pvp ! It was fun while it lasted ...