End Game for ESO

CaffeinatedMayhem

Unpopular opinion coming, I stopped running trials because of the community.
Trials guilds are super competitive, and the ones I've been in were "helpful" - if you like getting yelled at for everything and told your build is crap, even when you're following the "advice" given to you by the same people the previous week.

I really like the challenge of vet trials, but a guild of competent and chill players is a unicorn in this game.
The guilds I've tried were very competent but awful people, and really nice people, but take 3-4 hours to clear vAA.

Humatiel

thatlaurachick wrote: »

Unpopular opinion coming, I stopped running trials because of the community.
Trials guilds are super competitive, and the ones I've been in were "helpful" - if you like getting yelled at for everything and told your build is crap, even when you're following the "advice" given to you by the same people the previous week.

I really like the challenge of vet trials, but a guild of competent and chill players is a unicorn in this game.
The guilds I've tried were very competent but awful people, and really nice people, but take 3-4 hours to clear vAA.

I'm curious about part of your statement here, definitely not trying to start an argument though. You are looking for chill, relaxed, competent players. That mentality usually can only hold up so long as the team is advancing together, often you will find a player that isn't quite ready for that content which is what causes the drama. By your own words though that player should be what eleven other people wait on? Hardly seems fair if it clearly isn't working out and more to the point it's not fun to the competent players to be held back by people and not mechanics.

How would you propose to handle this problem while not being marked as an "awful" person. Knowing that there is a high probability the team will end up disbanding if that player cannot learn the content within a certain time frame.

CaffeinatedMayhem

Then they don't run. But honestly, one person being a little low on DPS, or dying too much wont completely ruin a trial. You wont' make leaderboards, but I'm not looking to do that. When an easy trial like vAA takes over 1.5 hours, it's generally because multiple people either aren't following directions (repeatedly) or are not ready for content.

My biggest complaint is that you MUST USE THE META to be in a trials guild. I get that most guilds only care about leaderboards, but you can definitely clear most vet trials without having 9 identital DPS, 2 identical healers, and one tank in ebon and alkosh.

theamazingx

thatlaurachick wrote: »

Then they don't run. But honestly, one person being a little low on DPS, or dying too much wont completely ruin a trial. You wont' make leaderboards, but I'm not looking to do that. When an easy trial like vAA takes over 1.5 hours, it's generally because multiple people either aren't following directions (repeatedly) or are not ready for content.

My biggest complaint is that you MUST USE THE META to be in a trials guild. I get that most guilds only care about leaderboards, but you can definitely clear most vet trials without having 9 identital DPS, 2 identical healers, and one tank in ebon and alkosh.

That sort of falls apart as you progress. Sure, a strong core can carry others for a while, but eventually you hit content at the cutting edge of the core's abilities and the ones holding them back do so absolutely. There are dps curves to be met, mechanics to be executed, roles to be fulfilled. One weak link will force the rest of the team to either go even more hardmore minmax than they already do, which they might not want to do, or give up on progression entirely. For many, it's not about clearing the regular vet craglorns, it's about the steady push forward to the hardest stuff out there.

idk

thatlaurachick wrote: »

Unpopular opinion coming, I stopped running trials because of the community.
Trials guilds are super competitive, and the ones I've been in were "helpful" - if you like getting yelled at for everything and told your build is crap, even when you're following the "advice" given to you by the same people the previous week.

I really like the challenge of vet trials, but a guild of competent and chill players is a unicorn in this game.
The guilds I've tried were very competent but awful people, and really nice people, but take 3-4 hours to clear vAA.

There are raid guilds of all types in game from the competitive to more casual cut certainly capable to mostly casuals yet can still get through most trials ok. Ofc I expect your speaking of raiding vet trials

I've never heard anyone or heard of anyone yelling at someone in a trial about their build. I expect it's happened. However, the more competent a raid team is the more someone will have to demonstrate their competence to become a regular member of the team. That is something that's probably obvious.

Many guilds, and especially many of the top players, are willing to offer help to those interested in the help but I've never seen them force their ideas on someone.

As someone else has mentioned, it helps of the team is mostly in the same level and of the same kind for that they want. Many guilds have regular raids for a player to develop their skills further including learning to work with mechanics more to improve their new dps and die less. This also includes training runs as well.

In the same vein the same builds will have runs for the more experienced players as well.

I've seen it work that way and it works well.

DMuehlhausen

wrrn519_ESO wrote: »

Guys, gals, and every other creature known and unknown,
I know it has been addressed before but I wanted to see what you as the players are thinking plus the devs. The problem currently in-game is that very few people are playing like they used to especially on the PC side. Unfortunately this is due to the lack of end game in the game.To the devs I am sure you are aware of the drop in the amount of people playing and you can definitely see that server side. I was curious as to what the players were wanting and what the devs had in store. DlC such as the Clockwork city are nice but that is a quest based solo player part then a trial. That's a nice tide me over but that is all it is. I am excited for it don't get me wrong and I am willing to pay for it but I know it's just temporary. Also the trials in this game are nice and all but are not real end-game material.
If they implemented maybe a rotating boss schedule in the dungeons so that they could have different bosses per week is not that hard to do and it is easy to implement if you layer the trial. Yet besides that they also need something to draw a player back to continue to strive for something end game based. If PvP is the only thing drawing people back each week, I guess that is OK but you are limiting your audience and that never lasts.
What are your thoughts? Players
What are your thoughts? Devs

Thank you,
Rock Hudson

Umm...when less than probably 5% of the community does end game it really doesn't have much impact on the game when people aren't doing it.

They make changes that help the mass majority of the game. If every raider were to quit playing this second. The game would survive and thrive. If every casual player quit, the servers would be shutdown by end of the year.

CaffeinatedMayhem

Yes, I've qualified for core in multiple guilds. Apparently needing shards occaiosnally is a sin in trials. Apparently also expecting DPS to try and stay out of the red a little is a cardinal sin.

Can I improve? Most likely. But when I'm having trouble and the only help given is "well figure it out or change this!" And then not being asked for any run for weeks... well, yeah, not my thing.

With all the "well there are targets yadda"... dude, you can finish without those. There are mayn groups who never make leaderboards and but still finish. Probably many don't have min/maxed builds. Everyone here is approaching from the ange of "how do I do better than other groups". I approch this as "how can I enjoy running the content." It makes a big difference in group dynamics. If you can't enjoy the content without making leaderboards, that's fine.

I really want to start my own trials guild, but there are so few end game players who prefer to enjoy the content over leaderboards.

theamazingx

thatlaurachick wrote: »

Yes, I've qualified for core in multiple guilds. Apparently needing shards occaiosnally is a sin in trials. Apparently also expecting DPS to try and stay out of the red a little is a cardinal sin.

Can I improve? Most likely. But when I'm having trouble and the only help given is "well figure it out or change this!" And then not being asked for any run for weeks... well, yeah, not my thing.

With all the "well there are targets yadda"... dude, you can finish without those. There are mayn groups who never make leaderboards and but still finish. Probably many don't have min/maxed builds. Everyone here is approaching from the ange of "how do I do better than other groups". I approch this as "how can I enjoy running the content." It makes a big difference in group dynamics. If you can't enjoy the content without making leaderboards, that's fine.

I really want to start my own trials guild, but there are so few end game players who prefer to enjoy the content over leaderboards.

Forget the leaderboards for a second. They're rarely the first priority of a raiding guild. Forget a couple hours to clear. There's content that simply can't be completed with a certain level of incompetence. And based on your first paragraph, the leadership was a big part of that incompetence. That's not a defining part of raiding in eso, it just means you were stuck with terribad players.

Jeremy

thatlaurachick wrote: »

Unpopular opinion coming, I stopped running trials because of the community.
Trials guilds are super competitive, and the ones I've been in were "helpful" - if you like getting yelled at for everything and told your build is crap, even when you're following the "advice" given to you by the same people the previous week.

I really like the challenge of vet trials, but a guild of competent and chill players is a unicorn in this game.
The guilds I've tried were very competent but awful people, and really nice people, but take 3-4 hours to clear vAA.

The truth is often unpopular and this is almost always the case with MMORPGs.

You always have that small (but very vocal) group of elitist hardcore raiders who consider themselves the endgame, but in truth no online game has been able to sustain itself by catering to that crew alone.

A game needs accessible and rewarding content at the end to retain a successful endgame. Otherwise the bulk of players are going to find something else to play. Which is something I believe this game has done quite well at thus far by adding a variety of different activities for players to do at the end that is likely to appeal to a broader range of players.

CaffeinatedMayhem

theamazingx wrote: »

Forget the leaderboards for a second. They're rarely the first priority of a raiding guild. Forget a couple hours to clear. There's content that simply can't be completed with a certain level of incompetence. And based on your first paragraph, the leadership was a big part of that incompetence. That's not a defining part of raiding in eso, it just means you were stuck with terribad players.

Well, I'd love to believe that incopetence isn't a big factor in ESO, but it's all I've experienced. And from some of the "good" players. So, if anyone wants another tank (haha, yeah right) I don't have a guild. However, I only run trials a few nights a week. Adult, have life, etc.

CaffeinatedMayhem

Jeremy wrote: »

The truth is often unpopular and this is almost always the case with MMORPGs.

You always have that small (but very vocal) group of elitist hardcore raiders who consider themselves the endgame, but in truth no online game has been able to sustain itself by catering to that crew alone.

A game needs accessible and rewarding content at the end to retain a successful endgame. Otherwise the bulk of players are going to find something else to play. Which is something I believe this game has done quite well at thus far by adding a variety of different activities for players to do at the end that is likely to appeal to a broader range of players.

I completely agree that ZOS has really tried to make endgame accessible, espeically in Clockwork City. However, finding the non-vocal interested players is the challenge here.

idk

thatlaurachick wrote: »

Yes, I've qualified for core in multiple guilds. Apparently needing shards occaiosnally is a sin in trials. Apparently also expecting DPS to try and stay out of the red a little is a cardinal sin.

Can I improve? Most likely. But when I'm having trouble and the only help given is "well figure it out or change this!" And then not being asked for any run for weeks... well, yeah, not my thing.

With all the "well there are targets yadda"... dude, you can finish without those. There are mayn groups who never make leaderboards and but still finish. Probably many don't have min/maxed builds. Everyone here is approaching from the ange of "how do I do better than other groups". I approch this as "how can I enjoy running the content." It makes a big difference in group dynamics. If you can't enjoy the content without making leaderboards, that's fine.

I really want to start my own trials guild, but there are so few end game players who prefer to enjoy the content over leaderboards.

Leaderboards or not, every groups, I guarantee every raid lead, wants to improve. While leaderboard are secondary, being able to clear within a more reasonable time than before is always beneficial.

That is from both the team and player perspective.

Some of the best advice I've been given was how to improve my survival.

Jeremy

thatlaurachick wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

The truth is often unpopular and this is almost always the case with MMORPGs.

You always have that small (but very vocal) group of elitist hardcore raiders who consider themselves the endgame, but in truth no online game has been able to sustain itself by catering to that crew alone.

A game needs accessible and rewarding content at the end to retain a successful endgame. Otherwise the bulk of players are going to find something else to play. Which is something I believe this game has done quite well at thus far by adding a variety of different activities for players to do at the end that is likely to appeal to a broader range of players.

I completely agree that ZOS has really tried to make endgame accessible, espeically in Clockwork City. However, finding the non-vocal interested players is the challenge here.

If you are referring to trials - that's probably because trials are excluded from the dungeon finder.

Perhaps they should do like they did in World of Warcraft and add easier versions of these trials to the grouping tools so more players can gain access and practice doing them without having to deal or risk having to deal with the elitism and demands that is often present in endgame raiding guilds.

Because a lot of players simply don't have the time or interest to deal with that sort of thing - so they probably just cross out doing trials all together.

Kode

The game is fine, it has a ton of content for all but the most ridiculous no-lifer.

I think posts like this get started and all of the chicken littles jump in and make the game look bad screaming that the sky is falling and whipping out generic answer to the problem #5479321455, because the people designing the game aren't dealing with it?

There are great ideas in the community, but they will develop the game in whichever way they have deemed, if they listen to every request this game would be a mess and they would never get anything good done.

MehrunesFlagon

Zos is more concerned with those players that are only going to come around when new dlc comes out.So to them end game doesn't matter.To me it should be opposite of the way it is and have a *** ton of end game content and say *** the casual ***.

MehrunesFlagon

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Urza1234 wrote: »

1. Make endgame content profitable, doesnt really matter how.
2. All that vanity content you keep making for each season of crown crates, the stuff you can never get again, make it purchasable for *** amounts of gold. It doesnt matter how much as people can imagine it as an even somewhat attainable goal.

The "endgamers" are that segment of your community that has too much time on their hands, they need a reward for using that time on -your- game. They may not be the segment of the community that pays your bills, but they are the segment that pushes the game forward, attracts other players, and adds value to the game. The game is nothing without them. (they are also *** elitists)

The perfect recipe for a multiplayer game these days is about finding the balance between serving people with too much time and serving people with too much money.

ZoS is currently not achieving that balance.

This hits the nail. To add further to it. Making only easy new content for the masses will fill your coffer with coin real fast but it's short-term thinking that eventually shoot you in the back. The trick for Zenimax as game developer is to first add easy content for the masses to bring in coin and then immediately cash in a large portion of that coin to create more top edge (elitist) content that will translate into more marketing and internet hype which in turn will attract more casual players etc...

Forget about casuals,now and forever.They have a tendency to ruin what could be great.