New Crafted armor

Gan Xing

As one who enjoys playing around with Hybrid builds, I feel like the two sets that are designed with Hybrids in mind are still not as useful as Shacklebreaker.

Innate Axiom seems cool, but is limited to class abilities
Mechanical Acuity also seems cool, but could really shine in PvE, tho that 18 (effectively 13) second cooldown sucks.

(i'm crazy as I'm a hybrid player in PvP)

I feel like these sets could really shine once Jewelry crafting comes out and you can pair Shacklebreaker with them.

edit: That said, has anybody given them extensive testing, and have other opinions? I would gladly hear them. As for the Fortified Brass... All I can say is that a fellow guildie really likes this set.

Gilvoth

could some one please link these 2 sets and thier 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 piece perspectives the OP is referring to?

thank you in advance.

Tannus15

I don't think the new sets are built with hybrids in mind at all.
I think they are intended to be flexible for magicka or stamina builds when crafted in medium or light.

In essence I think ZoS are attempting to avoid another julianos / hundings scenario where they have 2 sets basically the same.

I could easily see Innate Axiom being good for all classes apart from sorcs.
Stam builds could easily combine it with a penetration set like TFS or spriggan or double stack that weapon damage with sets like briarheart or automoton. Likewise magi builds.

Pretty much if your build is heavy on class skills like a magi dk, then this is a good set.

Honestly I don't know what to think of Mechanical Acuity. My gut feeling is that it's bad.
The only way I can see the 5pc being of use is if you have ignored crit entirely on your build and then you're hoping to make up for that with what, 27% crit chance over all? It's not worth building around crit damage, since if you're doing that you should go for much higher crit chance anyway, in which case this is pointless. Leviathan or Mothers Sorrow is just flat out better in every scenario I can come up with.

Fortified Brass already exists in the game and it's called "Pariah". this is a total waste of time and I would never craft it. For tanks it's providing no additional group utility. Resistance caps makes it utterly irrelevant since there is no gain in stacking super high resist.
The only reason I can ever think of crafting this set is if you want a light or medium armour wearer to get heavy armour levels mitigation, sacrificing a damage or sustain set.

STEVIL

the class damage one would have been very good until the shift on sustains pushed more towards more relaince on weapon damage coming from lights and heavies plus procs - any non-resourced damage.

Now, it seems mostly like any of the other "buff subset of your damage" sets... you can work it out to work well enough, but it still struggles beside broader more all around increases which are far less limiting.

testing still to be done but looks like another niche sub-par option for crafters - though crafters may be happy enough with the way they play such a pivotal role in the new transmute subsystem.

Joy_Division

Tannus15 wrote: »

I don't think the new sets are built with hybrids in mind at all.
I think they are intended to be flexible for magicka or stamina builds.

In essence I think ZoS are attempting to avoid another julianos / hundings scenario where they have 2 sets basically the same.

If that's theri intent, then the new sets aren't going to do the trick.

I just tested the Innate Axiom (the one the adds 400 spell damage to class skills) on my templar, the class probably best suited for the set, and Julianos gives roughly the same DPS for my class skills. On my non-class skill (which include basic attacks and, importantly, ultimates), Julianos blows the new set away.

Tannus15

Joy_Division wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

I don't think the new sets are built with hybrids in mind at all.
I think they are intended to be flexible for magicka or stamina builds.

In essence I think ZoS are attempting to avoid another julianos / hundings scenario where they have 2 sets basically the same.

If that's theri intent, then the new sets aren't going to do the trick.

I just tested the Innate Axiom (the one the adds 400 spell damage to class skills) on my templar, the class probably best suited for the set, and Julianos gives roughly the same DPS for my class skills. On my non-class skill (which include basic attacks and, importantly, ultimates), Julianos blows the new set away.

Agreed. I think they need to bump it to 450 or even 500 damage.

Gan Xing

As requested, here are the crafted armor sets that will be available next patch

Innate Axiom (All)
(2) Max Magicka
(3) Max Stamina
(4) Spell Critical
(4) Weapon Critical
(5) Adds 400 Spell and Weapon Damage to your Class abilities.

Fortified Brass (All)
(2) Max Health
(3) Physical Resistance
(4) Spell Resistance
(5) Adds 5170 Physical Resistance
(5) Adds 5170 Spell Resistance

Mechanical Acuity (All)
(2) Weapon Damage
(3) Spell Damage
(4) Max Stamina
(4) Max Magicka
(5) When you deal damage, you have a 15% chance to gain unerring mechanical vision for 5 seconds, causing your attacks to always be a Critical Strike. This effect can occur once every 18 seconds.

Gan Xing

Joy_Division wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

I don't think the new sets are built with hybrids in mind at all.
I think they are intended to be flexible for magicka or stamina builds.

In essence I think ZoS are attempting to avoid another julianos / hundings scenario where they have 2 sets basically the same.

If that's theri intent, then the new sets aren't going to do the trick.

I just tested the Innate Axiom (the one the adds 400 spell damage to class skills) on my templar, the class probably best suited for the set, and Julianos gives roughly the same DPS for my class skills. On my non-class skill (which include basic attacks and, importantly, ultimates), Julianos blows the new set away.

I had a feeling this would be the case.

CavalryPK

Honestly. As long as max stam/mag add to your weapon/spell dmg.. the hybrid thing will never work... if you run hybrid build... you are intentionally gimping your self.

in pve ppl will out dps you.

in pvp you wont have enough burst to kill average pvpers

Brrrofski

They aren't designed for hybrids.

They're designed so magica and Stam users can use them.

Gan Xing

CavalryPK wrote: »

Honestly. As long as max stam/mag add to your weapon/spell dmg.. the hybrid thing will never work... if you run hybrid build... you are intentionally gimping your self.

in pve ppl will out dps you.

in pvp you wont have enough burst to kill average pvpers

You already saw my results Calvalry. Out of 10-15 duels, I would only win 1, maybe 2.

Although that was using Pelinial, Agility, the new Asylum weapons, and 2 monster helms. It did not work as well as I would have liked.

My Current set up in Live is Pelinial, Affliction, and 1 Domihaus, and it gives me a decent burst, and is stronger (despite being purple) than the set up I had in PTS when I fought you.

I would like to reach out to one youtuber Kristof-er, as he knows his stuff, and also runs around with semi-hybrid builds. I've seen him be competitive with one or two set-ups...

I will be trying to incorporate some set ups that have worked in the past and see how they do
(Shacklebreaker and Knight's Errant worked surprisingly well for a brief period of time. Will see if I can do it again, but with one of the new sets) I'm thinking of building more towards magicka, as that is where I get most of my damage as a DK or Warden...

I'm also thinking of utilizing Shalk Exoskeleton in some fashion... but will need to figure out what to pair it with...

Subversus

Joy_Division wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

I don't think the new sets are built with hybrids in mind at all.
I think they are intended to be flexible for magicka or stamina builds.

In essence I think ZoS are attempting to avoid another julianos / hundings scenario where they have 2 sets basically the same.

If that's theri intent, then the new sets aren't going to do the trick.

I just tested the Innate Axiom (the one the adds 400 spell damage to class skills) on my templar, the class probably best suited for the set, and Julianos gives roughly the same DPS for my class skills. On my non-class skill (which include basic attacks and, importantly, ultimates), Julianos blows the new set away.

Yeah, my first thought when I saw this set was "why would anyone use this over julianos or hundings..."

Gan Xing

Subversus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

I don't think the new sets are built with hybrids in mind at all.
I think they are intended to be flexible for magicka or stamina builds.

In essence I think ZoS are attempting to avoid another julianos / hundings scenario where they have 2 sets basically the same.

If that's theri intent, then the new sets aren't going to do the trick.

I just tested the Innate Axiom (the one the adds 400 spell damage to class skills) on my templar, the class probably best suited for the set, and Julianos gives roughly the same DPS for my class skills. On my non-class skill (which include basic attacks and, importantly, ultimates), Julianos blows the new set away.

Yeah, my first thought when I saw this set was "why would anyone use this over julianos or hundings..."

My only thought is someone who wants to use both magicka and stamina class abilities... Like if you are a Stam DK, pair with Swamp Raider, and a defensive monster helm, and you got strong-er class healing, as well as potent poison damage...

or as a stam templar, you also have stronger class heals

Gan Xing

Note Swamp Raider + Axiom doesn't work.... at least when used like a mag dk - run out of magicka too quickly.. Will test as if I'm a stam DK

edit: don't ask why I tried as a mag dk... my head was in a weird state.

STEVIL

Joy_Division wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

I don't think the new sets are built with hybrids in mind at all.
I think they are intended to be flexible for magicka or stamina builds.

In essence I think ZoS are attempting to avoid another julianos / hundings scenario where they have 2 sets basically the same.

If that's theri intent, then the new sets aren't going to do the trick.

I just tested the Innate Axiom (the one the adds 400 spell damage to class skills) on my templar, the class probably best suited for the set, and Julianos gives roughly the same DPS for my class skills. On my non-class skill (which include basic attacks and, importantly, ultimates), Julianos blows the new set away.

I agree... with Axiom, i see a major disconnect in that its 5pc is damage. damage is the better boost ingredient for non-class stuff like say weapon attacks. in the era of the LA/HA weave being even more critical, limiting this set's 5pc to class only and spl/wpn damage seems very counterproductive

if they changed it to say "after using a class ability you gain.." and made it something like penetration or critical for ABC seconds or even some form of proc, that would be one thing. maybe even proc a HoT when using class abilities.

Acuity is the only set i see with some potential.

but this new "serve both masters" design basically means you lose a bonus from you 2-3-4pc.

for a single stat character, mag or stam, the 2-3-4pc from axiom only adds TWO core useful benefits (as opposed to the optimal three) and one off-core bonus which may or may not be worth anything.

That means by the time you get to your 5pc bonus you are already behind the curve when loooking at julianos or hundings or a good healer set if that is your thing.

but these sets do not seem to raise the 5pc any to offset that.

result -= sub-par crafted sets to what we can already craft and with sets like Axiom... they offer nothing new, no new gameplay.

Now if the auto-crit one can be used to produce some optimal burst, that can certainly have some PVP advantages, but it sure does not feel like that good a choice for PVE DPS - after all crits are not hard to get and a key element already, so "auto-crit" 15% does not add that much to a 60% spell crit chance.

I cannot imagine the auto-crit set coming close to matching simple old julianos or hundings in sustain DPS.

but still, for auto-crit an ulti burst combo, has some potential.

maybe a rapid plink at range followed by gap closer-ulti-bighit with LA weaves in the mix for all crit burst combo as soon as it procs?

One thing about the multi-stat sets they keep coming out with now, they pretty much lock-in the "new crafted sets - meh-uggg" as opposed to meta paradigm.

STEVIL

Subversus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

I don't think the new sets are built with hybrids in mind at all.
I think they are intended to be flexible for magicka or stamina builds.

In essence I think ZoS are attempting to avoid another julianos / hundings scenario where they have 2 sets basically the same.

If that's theri intent, then the new sets aren't going to do the trick.

I just tested the Innate Axiom (the one the adds 400 spell damage to class skills) on my templar, the class probably best suited for the set, and Julianos gives roughly the same DPS for my class skills. On my non-class skill (which include basic attacks and, importantly, ultimates), Julianos blows the new set away.

Yeah, my first thought when I saw this set was "why would anyone use this over julianos or hundings..."

yup

Vanzen

STEVIL wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

I don't think the new sets are built with hybrids in mind at all.
I think they are intended to be flexible for magicka or stamina builds.

In essence I think ZoS are attempting to avoid another julianos / hundings scenario where they have 2 sets basically the same.

If that's theri intent, then the new sets aren't going to do the trick.

I just tested the Innate Axiom (the one the adds 400 spell damage to class skills) on my templar, the class probably best suited for the set, and Julianos gives roughly the same DPS for my class skills. On my non-class skill (which include basic attacks and, importantly, ultimates), Julianos blows the new set away.

Yeah, my first thought when I saw this set was "why would anyone use this over julianos or hundings..."

yup

On mag blocking SNB DK, Axiom looks perfect... All offensive skills and healings are class skills. Pair it with amberplasm and your good to go, better than Shackle imo...

STEVIL

Vanzen wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

I don't think the new sets are built with hybrids in mind at all.
I think they are intended to be flexible for magicka or stamina builds.

In essence I think ZoS are attempting to avoid another julianos / hundings scenario where they have 2 sets basically the same.

If that's theri intent, then the new sets aren't going to do the trick.

I just tested the Innate Axiom (the one the adds 400 spell damage to class skills) on my templar, the class probably best suited for the set, and Julianos gives roughly the same DPS for my class skills. On my non-class skill (which include basic attacks and, importantly, ultimates), Julianos blows the new set away.

Yeah, my first thought when I saw this set was "why would anyone use this over julianos or hundings..."

yup

On mag blocking SNB DK, Axiom looks perfect... All offensive skills and healings are class skills. Pair it with amberplasm and your good to go, better than Shackle imo...

perhaps... but when i look at that trade-off i see dripping another spell crit buff that improves both offense and heals too for 101 extra spell damage but only to class skills and another stamina buff for longer blocking. i am sure there are others to look at. Unless the stamina for blocking is extremely critically low so that the extra 1kish would make or break the build, the loss of damage from weaving staves and the like (assuming you weave staves) would be critical and way outweigh the block... but again, not seeing your build and your goals i cannot estimate for sure.

but for most purposes the combo whammy of "class only damage boost" and "loss of a prime stat boost in the 2-3-4pc set" add up to another niche (at best) set with limited utility.

there is a reason so many sets got their "off stat bonus" reset in the last several patches. these sets IMO added now should ne designed keeping that in mind and adjust the 5pc accordingly to compensate.

Gan Xing

STEVIL wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

I don't think the new sets are built with hybrids in mind at all.
I think they are intended to be flexible for magicka or stamina builds.

In essence I think ZoS are attempting to avoid another julianos / hundings scenario where they have 2 sets basically the same.

If that's theri intent, then the new sets aren't going to do the trick.

I just tested the Innate Axiom (the one the adds 400 spell damage to class skills) on my templar, the class probably best suited for the set, and Julianos gives roughly the same DPS for my class skills. On my non-class skill (which include basic attacks and, importantly, ultimates), Julianos blows the new set away.

I agree... with Axiom, i see a major disconnect in that its 5pc is damage. damage is the better boost ingredient for non-class stuff like say weapon attacks. in the era of the LA/HA weave being even more critical, limiting this set's 5pc to class only and spl/wpn damage seems very counterproductive

if they changed it to say "after using a class ability you gain.." and made it something like penetration or critical for ABC seconds or even some form of proc, that would be one thing. maybe even proc a HoT when using class abilities.

Acuity is the only set i see with some potential.

but this new "serve both masters" design basically means you lose a bonus from you 2-3-4pc.

for a single stat character, mag or stam, the 2-3-4pc from axiom only adds TWO core useful benefits (as opposed to the optimal three) and one off-core bonus which may or may not be worth anything.

That means by the time you get to your 5pc bonus you are already behind the curve when loooking at julianos or hundings or a good healer set if that is your thing.

but these sets do not seem to raise the 5pc any to offset that.

result -= sub-par crafted sets to what we can already craft and with sets like Axiom... they offer nothing new, no new gameplay.

Now if the auto-crit one can be used to produce some optimal burst, that can certainly have some PVP advantages, but it sure does not feel like that good a choice for PVE DPS - after all crits are not hard to get and a key element already, so "auto-crit" 15% does not add that much to a 60% spell crit chance.

I cannot imagine the auto-crit set coming close to matching simple old julianos or hundings in sustain DPS.

but still, for auto-crit an ulti burst combo, has some potential.

maybe a rapid plink at range followed by gap closer-ulti-bighit with LA weaves in the mix for all crit burst combo as soon as it procs?

One thing about the multi-stat sets they keep coming out with now, they pretty much lock-in the "new crafted sets - meh-uggg" as opposed to meta paradigm.

Axiom would be good for players who already don't use weapon abilities. I can think of my nightblade having some use with this set, and utilizing dual wield and some abilities that I wouldn't normally use because they are magicka abilities. That said, Nightblades rely on what magicka they do have to get away. As I mentioned earlier, I attempted to test as a MagDK, but I didn't use the right set up (I used armor that would have worked better as a Stam DK).

I honestly think Shacklebreaker would work better, especially if you are looking for more sustain. Both Axiom and Acuity are good for burst builds.

More testing is needed

STEVIL

Gan Xing wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

I don't think the new sets are built with hybrids in mind at all.
I think they are intended to be flexible for magicka or stamina builds.

In essence I think ZoS are attempting to avoid another julianos / hundings scenario where they have 2 sets basically the same.

If that's theri intent, then the new sets aren't going to do the trick.

I just tested the Innate Axiom (the one the adds 400 spell damage to class skills) on my templar, the class probably best suited for the set, and Julianos gives roughly the same DPS for my class skills. On my non-class skill (which include basic attacks and, importantly, ultimates), Julianos blows the new set away.

I agree... with Axiom, i see a major disconnect in that its 5pc is damage. damage is the better boost ingredient for non-class stuff like say weapon attacks. in the era of the LA/HA weave being even more critical, limiting this set's 5pc to class only and spl/wpn damage seems very counterproductive

if they changed it to say "after using a class ability you gain.." and made it something like penetration or critical for ABC seconds or even some form of proc, that would be one thing. maybe even proc a HoT when using class abilities.

Acuity is the only set i see with some potential.

but this new "serve both masters" design basically means you lose a bonus from you 2-3-4pc.

for a single stat character, mag or stam, the 2-3-4pc from axiom only adds TWO core useful benefits (as opposed to the optimal three) and one off-core bonus which may or may not be worth anything.

That means by the time you get to your 5pc bonus you are already behind the curve when loooking at julianos or hundings or a good healer set if that is your thing.

but these sets do not seem to raise the 5pc any to offset that.

result -= sub-par crafted sets to what we can already craft and with sets like Axiom... they offer nothing new, no new gameplay.

Now if the auto-crit one can be used to produce some optimal burst, that can certainly have some PVP advantages, but it sure does not feel like that good a choice for PVE DPS - after all crits are not hard to get and a key element already, so "auto-crit" 15% does not add that much to a 60% spell crit chance.

I cannot imagine the auto-crit set coming close to matching simple old julianos or hundings in sustain DPS.

but still, for auto-crit an ulti burst combo, has some potential.

maybe a rapid plink at range followed by gap closer-ulti-bighit with LA weaves in the mix for all crit burst combo as soon as it procs?

One thing about the multi-stat sets they keep coming out with now, they pretty much lock-in the "new crafted sets - meh-uggg" as opposed to meta paradigm.

Axiom would be good for players who already don't use weapon abilities. I can think of my nightblade having some use with this set, and utilizing dual wield and some abilities that I wouldn't normally use because they are magicka abilities. That said, Nightblades rely on what magicka they do have to get away. As I mentioned earlier, I attempted to test as a MagDK, but I didn't use the right set up (I used armor that would have worked better as a Stam DK).

I honestly think Shacklebreaker would work better, especially if you are looking for more sustain. Both Axiom and Acuity are good for burst builds.

More testing is needed

if it were just weapon abilities you reduce that would be one thing. To me its the weaving loss as well as the others. Cant think of a case where damage is a priority but weaving isn't a thing. But sure their are some.

but yes, testing can tell.

Gan Xing

STEVIL wrote: »

Gan Xing wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

I don't think the new sets are built with hybrids in mind at all.
I think they are intended to be flexible for magicka or stamina builds.

In essence I think ZoS are attempting to avoid another julianos / hundings scenario where they have 2 sets basically the same.

If that's theri intent, then the new sets aren't going to do the trick.

I just tested the Innate Axiom (the one the adds 400 spell damage to class skills) on my templar, the class probably best suited for the set, and Julianos gives roughly the same DPS for my class skills. On my non-class skill (which include basic attacks and, importantly, ultimates), Julianos blows the new set away.

I agree... with Axiom, i see a major disconnect in that its 5pc is damage. damage is the better boost ingredient for non-class stuff like say weapon attacks. in the era of the LA/HA weave being even more critical, limiting this set's 5pc to class only and spl/wpn damage seems very counterproductive

if they changed it to say "after using a class ability you gain.." and made it something like penetration or critical for ABC seconds or even some form of proc, that would be one thing. maybe even proc a HoT when using class abilities.

Acuity is the only set i see with some potential.

but this new "serve both masters" design basically means you lose a bonus from you 2-3-4pc.

for a single stat character, mag or stam, the 2-3-4pc from axiom only adds TWO core useful benefits (as opposed to the optimal three) and one off-core bonus which may or may not be worth anything.

That means by the time you get to your 5pc bonus you are already behind the curve when loooking at julianos or hundings or a good healer set if that is your thing.

but these sets do not seem to raise the 5pc any to offset that.

result -= sub-par crafted sets to what we can already craft and with sets like Axiom... they offer nothing new, no new gameplay.

Now if the auto-crit one can be used to produce some optimal burst, that can certainly have some PVP advantages, but it sure does not feel like that good a choice for PVE DPS - after all crits are not hard to get and a key element already, so "auto-crit" 15% does not add that much to a 60% spell crit chance.

I cannot imagine the auto-crit set coming close to matching simple old julianos or hundings in sustain DPS.

but still, for auto-crit an ulti burst combo, has some potential.

maybe a rapid plink at range followed by gap closer-ulti-bighit with LA weaves in the mix for all crit burst combo as soon as it procs?

One thing about the multi-stat sets they keep coming out with now, they pretty much lock-in the "new crafted sets - meh-uggg" as opposed to meta paradigm.

Axiom would be good for players who already don't use weapon abilities. I can think of my nightblade having some use with this set, and utilizing dual wield and some abilities that I wouldn't normally use because they are magicka abilities. That said, Nightblades rely on what magicka they do have to get away. As I mentioned earlier, I attempted to test as a MagDK, but I didn't use the right set up (I used armor that would have worked better as a Stam DK).

I honestly think Shacklebreaker would work better, especially if you are looking for more sustain. Both Axiom and Acuity are good for burst builds.

More testing is needed

if it were just weapon abilities you reduce that would be one thing. To me its the weaving loss as well as the others. Cant think of a case where damage is a priority but weaving isn't a thing. But sure their are some.

but yes, testing can tell.

I hadn't thought of the loss of damage from weaving. Since I PvP most of the time, I worry more about burst damage and skill based damage, since that is where most, if not all damage comes from. I'm also not sure if this will affect resource return from heavy attacks. Does weapon damage have any effect on that?

STEVIL

Gan Xing wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Gan Xing wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

I don't think the new sets are built with hybrids in mind at all.
I think they are intended to be flexible for magicka or stamina builds.

In essence I think ZoS are attempting to avoid another julianos / hundings scenario where they have 2 sets basically the same.

If that's theri intent, then the new sets aren't going to do the trick.

I just tested the Innate Axiom (the one the adds 400 spell damage to class skills) on my templar, the class probably best suited for the set, and Julianos gives roughly the same DPS for my class skills. On my non-class skill (which include basic attacks and, importantly, ultimates), Julianos blows the new set away.

I agree... with Axiom, i see a major disconnect in that its 5pc is damage. damage is the better boost ingredient for non-class stuff like say weapon attacks. in the era of the LA/HA weave being even more critical, limiting this set's 5pc to class only and spl/wpn damage seems very counterproductive

if they changed it to say "after using a class ability you gain.." and made it something like penetration or critical for ABC seconds or even some form of proc, that would be one thing. maybe even proc a HoT when using class abilities.

Acuity is the only set i see with some potential.

but this new "serve both masters" design basically means you lose a bonus from you 2-3-4pc.

for a single stat character, mag or stam, the 2-3-4pc from axiom only adds TWO core useful benefits (as opposed to the optimal three) and one off-core bonus which may or may not be worth anything.

That means by the time you get to your 5pc bonus you are already behind the curve when loooking at julianos or hundings or a good healer set if that is your thing.

but these sets do not seem to raise the 5pc any to offset that.

result -= sub-par crafted sets to what we can already craft and with sets like Axiom... they offer nothing new, no new gameplay.

Now if the auto-crit one can be used to produce some optimal burst, that can certainly have some PVP advantages, but it sure does not feel like that good a choice for PVE DPS - after all crits are not hard to get and a key element already, so "auto-crit" 15% does not add that much to a 60% spell crit chance.

I cannot imagine the auto-crit set coming close to matching simple old julianos or hundings in sustain DPS.

but still, for auto-crit an ulti burst combo, has some potential.

maybe a rapid plink at range followed by gap closer-ulti-bighit with LA weaves in the mix for all crit burst combo as soon as it procs?

One thing about the multi-stat sets they keep coming out with now, they pretty much lock-in the "new crafted sets - meh-uggg" as opposed to meta paradigm.

Axiom would be good for players who already don't use weapon abilities. I can think of my nightblade having some use with this set, and utilizing dual wield and some abilities that I wouldn't normally use because they are magicka abilities. That said, Nightblades rely on what magicka they do have to get away. As I mentioned earlier, I attempted to test as a MagDK, but I didn't use the right set up (I used armor that would have worked better as a Stam DK).

I honestly think Shacklebreaker would work better, especially if you are looking for more sustain. Both Axiom and Acuity are good for burst builds.

More testing is needed

if it were just weapon abilities you reduce that would be one thing. To me its the weaving loss as well as the others. Cant think of a case where damage is a priority but weaving isn't a thing. But sure their are some.

but yes, testing can tell.

I hadn't thought of the loss of damage from weaving. Since I PvP most of the time, I worry more about burst damage and skill based damage, since that is where most, if not all damage comes from. I'm also not sure if this will affect resource return from heavy attacks. Does weapon damage have any effect on that?

it wont affect the resource return just the damage done will be less.

Cinbri

Well, Axiom set for magicka Templar is what Necropotence for sorc/nb. So, I fine with this set.

STEVIL

Cinbri wrote: »

Well, Axiom set for magicka Templar is what Necropotence for sorc/nb. So, I fine with this set.

great!

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Gan Xing wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

I don't think the new sets are built with hybrids in mind at all.
I think they are intended to be flexible for magicka or stamina builds.

In essence I think ZoS are attempting to avoid another julianos / hundings scenario where they have 2 sets basically the same.

If that's theri intent, then the new sets aren't going to do the trick.

I just tested the Innate Axiom (the one the adds 400 spell damage to class skills) on my templar, the class probably best suited for the set, and Julianos gives roughly the same DPS for my class skills. On my non-class skill (which include basic attacks and, importantly, ultimates), Julianos blows the new set away.

I agree... with Axiom, i see a major disconnect in that its 5pc is damage. damage is the better boost ingredient for non-class stuff like say weapon attacks. in the era of the LA/HA weave being even more critical, limiting this set's 5pc to class only and spl/wpn damage seems very counterproductive

if they changed it to say "after using a class ability you gain.." and made it something like penetration or critical for ABC seconds or even some form of proc, that would be one thing. maybe even proc a HoT when using class abilities.

Acuity is the only set i see with some potential.

but this new "serve both masters" design basically means you lose a bonus from you 2-3-4pc.

for a single stat character, mag or stam, the 2-3-4pc from axiom only adds TWO core useful benefits (as opposed to the optimal three) and one off-core bonus which may or may not be worth anything.

That means by the time you get to your 5pc bonus you are already behind the curve when loooking at julianos or hundings or a good healer set if that is your thing.

but these sets do not seem to raise the 5pc any to offset that.

result -= sub-par crafted sets to what we can already craft and with sets like Axiom... they offer nothing new, no new gameplay.

Now if the auto-crit one can be used to produce some optimal burst, that can certainly have some PVP advantages, but it sure does not feel like that good a choice for PVE DPS - after all crits are not hard to get and a key element already, so "auto-crit" 15% does not add that much to a 60% spell crit chance.

I cannot imagine the auto-crit set coming close to matching simple old julianos or hundings in sustain DPS.

but still, for auto-crit an ulti burst combo, has some potential.

maybe a rapid plink at range followed by gap closer-ulti-bighit with LA weaves in the mix for all crit burst combo as soon as it procs?

One thing about the multi-stat sets they keep coming out with now, they pretty much lock-in the "new crafted sets - meh-uggg" as opposed to meta paradigm.

Axiom would be good for players who already don't use weapon abilities. I can think of my nightblade having some use with this set, and utilizing dual wield and some abilities that I wouldn't normally use because they are magicka abilities. That said, Nightblades rely on what magicka they do have to get away. As I mentioned earlier, I attempted to test as a MagDK, but I didn't use the right set up (I used armor that would have worked better as a Stam DK).

I honestly think Shacklebreaker would work better, especially if you are looking for more sustain. Both Axiom and Acuity are good for burst builds.

More testing is needed

No I tested this on all my Nightblades Stamina DPS, Magic DPS, Tank and pure burst DPS Ganker. As I can very easily not use weapon abilities but it's limiting. For my MageBlade this was actually nice cause of class heals. My StamBlades both suck on the healing side with this.

With max stat and regen drinks/food only run tri on my tank. Gold regen enchantments, offensive monster set and and Jewelry and weapon sustain set you just don't have enough sustain. Easy to use on my Mage Nightblade, Templar, Dragon Knight and Warden as the can more or go full class on both bars and go well but for stamina anything you need Vigor and Rally both of which have weak heals without that bonus to all damage.

Now that's with a gold Nirn weapon and weapon and spell damage enchantments. To maximize damage your class heals to a lot better but you can use them to much if the build is stamina. Now Nightblade can use Path and Strife which do help a lot but still miss both Vigor and Rally. That's bad cause they both out heal on there own and they are used together on all but gank builds.

ak_pvp

Joy_Division wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

I don't think the new sets are built with hybrids in mind at all.
I think they are intended to be flexible for magicka or stamina builds.

In essence I think ZoS are attempting to avoid another julianos / hundings scenario where they have 2 sets basically the same.

If that's theri intent, then the new sets aren't going to do the trick.

I just tested the Innate Axiom (the one the adds 400 spell damage to class skills) on my templar, the class probably best suited for the set, and Julianos gives roughly the same DPS for my class skills. On my non-class skill (which include basic attacks and, importantly, ultimates), Julianos blows the new set away.

Well, its not awful for PvP classes who use s/b or dw. Magplars sometimes run warmaiden or soulshine. This out damages both of them whilst also increasing heals. On my MDK I might run it too, out does sun.

Mettaricana

That axiom is gonna be a welcome addition to crafters and templar nb and magicka dk all over its an amazing set

Gan Xing

Mettaricana wrote: »

That axiom is gonna be a welcome addition to crafters and templar nb and magicka dk all over its an amazing set

I think for Magdk, if you decide to run it, using the venomous claw, you get that poison dot on them... Otherwise, I don't know how many MagDK will be utilizing this set over what they already have.

Sedare

I think pairing axiom with war maiden on a mag blade would be deadly. 1 all magblade class abilities are mag dmg so they gain the bonus from that. I just want to know how it's reflected on the tool tips b/c it won't show up as extra spell dmg on the character sheet. you get 400 dmg to magicka abilities and 400 dmg to class abilities. In theory your siphon, shadow, and assassination abilities should hit like a truck then. Add 1 kena, 1 domihaus, weapon/spell dmg enchant (if you get close or just pop a destro/resto hit), dw on the main bar for 5/5/1/1, apprentice, and 1-3 spell dmg enchants on jewlery (or 2 regen enchants) and you'd easily clear a boat load of dmg. you may not have a lot of sustain but that's what cloak and other stuff is for.

I want to test it.

Savos_Saren

@Gan Xing

I want to pair Innate Axiom with BSW and Valkyn (or Slimecraw)

I figure you could truly min/max with that setup. A 5l/1m(shoulder or legs)/1h (chest) The reason I wouldn't pair Axiom with Silks of the Sun is that Silks only buffs the fire damage of our abilities. Some of our main abilities use magic damage imbedded within the skill. (Spiked Armor, Talons, Petrify, Inhale, Sonefist)

BSW and Axiom both buff the magic damage from Inhale (more heals) and the fire damage.

Also, now that we're force fed into choosing between Petrify and Stone Fist- I'd take another look at how powerful Stone Giant can be when buffed with Axiom and BSW... and even moreso with Slimecraw.

If you have the opportunity- could you test that setup, please?

Gan Xing

jaburns wrote: »

@Gan Xing

I want to pair Innate Axiom with BSW and Valkyn (or Slimecraw)

I figure you could truly min/max with that setup. A 5l/1m(shoulder or legs)/1h (chest) The reason I wouldn't pair Axiom with Silks of the Sun is that Silks only buffs the fire damage of our abilities. Some of our main abilities use magic damage imbedded within the skill. (Spiked Armor, Talons, Petrify, Inhale, Sonefist)

BSW and Axiom both buff the magic damage from Inhale (more heals) and the fire damage.

Also, now that we're force fed into choosing between Petrify and Stone Fist- I'd take another look at how powerful Stone Giant can be when buffed with Axiom and BSW... and even moreso with Slimecraw.

If you have the opportunity- could you test that setup, please?

Sure! Another thing about BSW is that it works well with the DK passive that increases damage dealt to those who have burning on them.