Buffing up the Leeching+Bahraha's Curse build

Savos_Saren

Hey everyone. Recently, I've been running on my Argonian mDK tank and I pulled out an old build. I've been trying to come up with better ways to improve his damage from Leeching and Baharaha's Curse sets. The thing I like about this build is that the more damage you do- the more heals you get. Here's what I've found so far:

-Thaumaturge does NOT increase the damage from Leeching or Bahraha. It will, however, increase the damage/heals from burning embers. (so keep that in mind)

-Abilities like Major Sorcery and Major Brutality won't increase the damage either... since it's part of the gear's 5th piece bonus.

-Elemental Expert increases the damage/heals from Bahraha while Mighty increases the damage/heals from Leeching. I've got 75 points in each.

-Putting points into Blessed doesn't change the 5th piece bonus- nor does it effect your incoming heal from it. Also, be aware, that Bahraha's Curse and Leeching Plate cannot crit.

-Putting points into Quick Recovery, however, will increase your healing received from Bahraha and Leeching.

-Finally, the easiest way to increase the damage/heals for Leeching Plate and Bahraha's Curse is to wear Slimecraw. It gives you minor beserk at all times.... which effectively increases the 5th piece bonus.

That being said... why is this combination effective? And why would you use it on an mDK? Here's why:

-The Argonian's passives receive 5% Healing Received an 5% Healing done while also getting a bonus to health (good for tanks) and magicka (good for mDKs)

-An mDK receives his/her healing from Burning Embers (magicka based), Draw Essence (magicka based), and Bahraha's Curse (magicka based). The damage from Leeching Plate's AoE poison is actually buffed by a DK's passive ability, World In Ruin. It actually hits harder than Bahraha's Curse on a mDK.

-This build isn't just a selfish build. Bahraha's Curse adds a snare to enemies and Leeching will poison enemies. Both sets also add some passive DPS to help the damage dealers and provides a lot of self-heals, which, in turn, let's the healer focus on keeping damage dealers alive.

-Finally, Leeching and Bahraha offers flexibility in your build. I currently run with three or four different Monster Helm sets that synergize well with the build.
-Slimecraw: it'll buff the damage and heals. It's beneficial, overall.
-Valkyn Skoria: it adds a quick burst to your build and benefits from World In Ruin. Good for PVP.
-Malubeth: this is an obvious one. It's good for PVP and PVE. It makes you annoyingly survivable.
-Grothgarr: this is for more up-close-and-personal builds. Better for PVE soloing or PVP CC tanks.

And, if you think that you want more group utility- you can wear Bloodspawn (for faster warhorns in PVE), or any number of the healing Monster Helms since you'll constantly be healing a "friendly target" (yourself).

If you have any suggestions or constructive criticism- please let me know! I can also post a picture of the stats wearing various gear pieces if you want to see roughly what you can achieve with certain setups!

paulsimonps

I have been getting pieces for this for tanking the vAA HM axes more easily, those 2 sets with all sturdy and full block cost CP and glyphs and you are a really low maintenance tank and you don't need shards nor do you have to retaunt the axes. Wanting a Malubeth shoulders to add to it like you put in your list. Really tanky, all that self heal. A build like that would also be really good for helping to deal damage in vDSA I think. Seems like a good set up, and Argonians are perfect for it.

Savos_Saren

Thanks @paulsimonps . Also, I've noticed that the "snare" from Bahraha's Curse and Eruption seem to stack. So, if you toss in Eruption into your rotation- it helps proc Bahraha's Curse. Uber snares for adds, AoE flame dot (world in ruin), and it returns stamina (helping hands)

paulsimonps

For me I would as my DK just have Bahraha's proc from my Hardened Armor, but Eruption or Deep Breath would be good options too.

Everstorm

I have been wondering if passives that buff "abilities" also buff armor procs. Are you sure World in Ruin buffs the leeching plate damage?

Edit: the tooltip for the Syvarra's Scales set shows higher damage on my DK than on my NB, so it looks like it does get the buff indeed.

DRXHarbinger

Use Sentinel Monster set with these two, the heals from the sets proc the Spider. gives pretty good stamina return with no input from you at all. Doesn't matter what you do, the damage from running these will always be minimal.

Savos_Saren

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Use Sentinel Monster set with these two, the heals from the sets proc the Spider. gives pretty good stamina return with no input from you at all. Doesn't matter what you do, the damage from running these will always be minimal.

Yeah- the damage isn't supposed to be significant. But the heals are pretty damn good. If you think about it- if both sets are running, you'll be getting roughly 2000 HPS... and that's only if ONE enemy is being hit.

I actually thought about running that on my SapTank, too. With Bahraha, Leeching, and Sentinel, you're basically running Siphoning Strikes. So, if you use Siphoning Attacks- you'd be getting health, magicka, and stamina returned to you.

RedFireDisco

I run Bahara's Curse, Leeching & Grothdarr on my tankplar and it's very fun.

I put a ton into regen and I can spam puncturing sweeps while the three damage procs stack with my sweeps, plus I get three heals.

I've PVP'd with this build and 1vx is a lot of fun. I run a more mag based version, so my damage is higher and heals too.

Very fun rotation.

Will try on my DK now that I've read this.

CGPsaint

RedFireDisco wrote: »

I run Bahara's Curse, Leeching & Grothdarr on my tankplar and it's very fun.

I put a ton into regen and I can spam puncturing sweeps while the three damage procs stack with my sweeps, plus I get three heals.

I've PVP'd with this build and 1vx is a lot of fun. I run a more mag based version, so my damage is higher and heals too.

Very fun rotation.

Will try on my DK now that I've read this.

Would you mind posting more information in regards to this build? I'm just now working on my first tank build, and have never made a Templar, so this might be a good starting point for me!

RedFireDisco

CGPsaint wrote: »

RedFireDisco wrote: »

I run Bahara's Curse, Leeching & Grothdarr on my tankplar and it's very fun.

I put a ton into regen and I can spam puncturing sweeps while the three damage procs stack with my sweeps, plus I get three heals.

I've PVP'd with this build and 1vx is a lot of fun. I run a more mag based version, so my damage is higher and heals too.

Very fun rotation.

Will try on my DK now that I've read this.

Would you mind posting more information in regards to this build? I'm just now working on my first tank build, and have never made a Templar, so this might be a good starting point for me!

I call this LEECHPLAR:

5 Leeching plate
5 Baharas Curse
2 Grothdarr

5/1/1 Heavy/med/lite

Sword & Board

3 impen 3 sturdy 3 reinforced 3 infused (purely coincidence)

37 k mag
30 k health
18 k stam

Witchmother's brew

2200 Magicka recovery + constitution passive + channeled focus (works out close to 3k regen)

All prismatic glyphs

Damage comes from stacking reflective light + blazing spear with jabs + three procs

Nearly 100% uptime of major and minor sorc with vamp bane passive + structured entropy

Weapon damage glyph on sword + wrath.

So the survivability is insane, massive regen, big heals, enough stam to block for a while, good stacking dots.

Shooting star for the big hit into j-beam.


If you take this build out with a couple of others, you can take on sizable x groups.

The self healing is fantastic in dungeons and still quite good in pvp.

All blue cp into thaumaturge, ele expert, blessed, erosion and elfborn. NONE into master at arms as ALL damage is dots.

My healing in Cyrodil is 82% on this build.


Hope you have fun with it if you try it.

TankHealz2015

Hey, thanks for sharing this! Trying to figure out how the different CP points interact can be confusing and certainly not obvious.


Another point here: I just read on another thread that Swamp Raider set --when it procs- would buff up the damage of all poison damage --- including armor set damage.

Swamp Raider Set
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(4 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
(5 items) When you deal damage with a Magicka ability, your Poison and Disease Damage abilities gain an additional 450 Weapon Damage for 10 seconds.


Not to take away from your combo of Leeching Plate + Bahara's, but if you/anyone wanted to focus solely on the Poison aspect then perhaps:

Velidreth --- monster set procs poison spores?

Swamp Raider -- proc buff up all poison damage?

Leeching Plate --- poison DoT that heals you?


DK has a few skills that can be morphed into poison damage.


Again, thanks for sharing your results!!! I have a set of Bahara's and it is fun to use.

Merlin13KAGL

paulsimonps wrote: »

I have been getting pieces for this for tanking the vAA HM axes more easily, those 2 sets with all sturdy and full block cost CP and glyphs and you are a really low maintenance tank and you don't need shards nor do you have to retaunt the axes. Wanting a Malubeth shoulders to add to it like you put in your list. Really tanky, all that self heal. A build like that would also be really good for helping to deal damage in vDSA I think. Seems like a good set up, and Argonians are perfect for it.

Something I haven't seen mentioned, or I missed it, and something to bear in mind:

• The heals you get from these sets are based on damage received, not the tooltip. So, unless you have some healthy penetration (roughly translated to not a typical tank build), your incoming heals will be much smaller than the tooltip value. You'll get what's left after NPC/monster mitigation.
• You basically have to spec'd more as DPS than tank to get full benefit from this/these sets.
• Then there's the obvious/not-so-obvious factor. These sets have diminishing returns when there are not multiple mobs or during single boss fights.

Resilient Yokuda coupled with one of these will give you a nice burst heal in addition to the DoT. Plus, you'll get some extra health and mitigation. Of course, it also suffers from the single target diminishing returns.

It's still a 'selfish build,' but so long as you're doing your job as a tank otherwise, that's probably ok. At least one of these can add some survivability to non-tanks, as well. Baraha;s is nice, in that regard, because you can choose the armor weight.

The CP tree buffs actually make perfect sense, with the exception of Thaumaturge. OP, the only thing I see missing is the Penetration CP's. You might consider fewer than 75 points in Elex/Mighty and more in those, depdending on what full penetration values you're already attaining, of course, since you're not going to be able to pierce armor 20 targets.)

Everstorm

TankHealz2015 wrote: »

Hey, thanks for sharing this! Trying to figure out how the different CP points interact can be confusing and certainly not obvious.


Another point here: I just read on another thread that Swamp Raider set --when it procs- would buff up the damage of all poison damage --- including armor set damage.

Swamp Raider Set
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(4 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
(5 items) When you deal damage with a Magicka ability, your Poison and Disease Damage abilities gain an additional 450 Weapon Damage for 10 seconds.


Not to take away from your combo of Leeching Plate + Bahara's, but if you/anyone wanted to focus solely on the Poison aspect then perhaps:

Velidreth --- monster set procs poison spores?

Swamp Raider -- proc buff up all poison damage?

Leeching Plate --- poison DoT that heals you?


DK has a few skills that can be morphed into poison damage.


Again, thanks for sharing your results!!! I have a set of Bahara's and it is fun to use.

Weapondamage won't buff armor procs, but the effect on Morag Tong armor, +10% poison damage, does.

CGPsaint

RedFireDisco wrote: »

I call this LEECHPLAR:

One last request! Would you mind posting your skill bars so that I can start tinkering with the skills that compliment this build?

Savos_Saren

@Merlin13KAGL @paulsimonps

Well, I took Merlin's advice about the penetration aspect of the build. And it has some amazing results!

I had noticed that Bahraha/Leeching wasn't doing as much damage as the tooltip stated (but I was still receiving good heals), so I reallocated my CP.

Instead of putting 75 points into Mighty and Ele Expert (14% extra damage), I allocated 56 points (12% extra damage). Losing out on a measly 2% isn't much compared to the 33 points I put toward physical and spell penetration. I also moved CP from Thaumaturge into penetration. Each now has a total of 2909. I also swapped to The Lover for more penetration and changed my jewelry glyphs to magicka recovery to make up for the loss of the Atronauch. So, here's how it stands:

2909 weapon and spell penetration from CP
2752 weapon and spell penetration from The Lover
1376 weapon and spell penetration from a sharpened Bahraha's sword
7037 total weapon and spell penetration if I'm soloing

You can toss in another 5280 from pierce armor for bosses and another 1622 if I run a crusher enchantment. For a total of 13,939 if I'm tanking for a group.

I'm actually receiving more healing than the tooltip's damage states.

So, this setup is optimal for solo and group content. Please let me know if you can think of anything else!

Sordidfairytale

This is inspiring. Personally I prefer defending warrior over Bahraha's , but I did run this for a long while until I got my DW pieces. Seeing your benefits with penetration, I can't wait to revisit my CP trees now. I too was told Turge helped with leeching, but despite not seeing any benefit I shrugged and left it there anyway for my other DK dots.

Merlin13KAGL

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

This is inspiring. Personally I prefer defending warrior over Bahraha's , but I did run this for a long while until I got my DW pieces. Seeing your benefits with penetration, I can't wait to revisit my CP trees now. I too was told Turge helped with leeching, but despite not seeing any benefit I shrugged and left it there anyway for my other DK dots.

They both have their place and purpose.

Defending is nice for the burst heals and extra resistances, well suited for a stam/permablock tank.

Bahraha's is nice fort the HoT and the extra stats, with the snare being a side bonus for your group and allowing you to put some space between you and the 50 things trying to kill you.

Personally, I wouldn't count on either of these to save your tail consistently. Get your resists close to cap (with your normal casted buffs) and adjust from there. Either/both can make a nice auxiliary set.

One other side note, if you intended to try any of these in Cyrodiil, bear in mind the healing received is still affected by Battle Spirit. So it's halved again two times over, once as outgoing damage and again as incoming heals.

Savos_Saren

I've actually run this build (a lot) in Cyrodiil. You'd be amazed at how much survivability you get from it. Not only that- being an Argonian increases the heals... AND when you use a potion (tristate preferably) you gain massive resources back. Utilizing that with Draw Essence (self heals/damage) and the quick bursts from Valkyn (which procs off both set's DoTs) and a Ferocious Leap... it's very fulfilling.

CGPsaint

RedFireDisco wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

RedFireDisco wrote: »

I run Bahara's Curse, Leeching & Grothdarr on my tankplar and it's very fun.

I've finally gathered all of the gear for this build and am contemplating using it on a Magicka Templar.

* What race did you use with your build?

* Did you use Sword & Board on both bars?

TankHealz2015

Another point: I picked up an axe with powered trait (+% healing) and it seemed to increase the heal value


Could somebody confirm that this set also comes in staff?

I've been farming ICP and never has any Leeching Plate staff dropped yet. I;'ve got 3 bows though...

Savos_Saren

@TankHealz2015

You could also invest in the ritual for more heals.

I’m not sure if leeching comes with a staff- but I prefer the Bahraha staff anyway.

Joosef_Kivikilpi

TankHealz2015 wrote: »

Another point: I picked up an axe with powered trait (+% healing) and it seemed to increase the heal value


Could somebody confirm that this set also comes in staff?

I've been farming ICP and never has any Leeching Plate staff dropped yet. I;'ve got 3 bows though...

Can confirm: have two lightning staves of the Leech. Excited to use them

Savos_Saren

I just ran Battlegrounds all day with this build. DON'T BOTHER WITH IT.

With most players spamming Major Defile, you basically end up with very, very little heals and two wasted sets.

paulsimonps

jaburns wrote: »

I just ran Battlegrounds all day with this build. DON'T BOTHER WITH IT.

With most players spamming Major Defile, you basically end up with very, very little heals and two wasted sets.

Its mostly for Pug dungeons and vAA axe tanking.

DoonerSeraph

Well, I know i'm necroing this thread but, I've made some testing with different CPs and buffs to see what does affect de et and what does not.The first three columns are the damage done (per tick) by each set (Bahrahas, Leeching and Malubeth), and the last three are the base healing of each tick of the set (Malubeth accounting for major vitality, the others dont).

A quick TL;DR:

All the sets are affected by Mending, Vitality, Blessed CP, Quick Recovery CP, Spell Erosion CP (yes, even Leeching) and Thaumaturge CP.
They are NOT affected by Master At Arms or Piercing.

Mighty affects the damage of Leeching Plate.
Elemental Expert affect the damage of Bahraha's Curse and Malubeth.

Curiously, Malubeth heal does crit, but the healing is not increased at all, thats why I've tested Elfborn. The healing counts as a crit, but its the same healing as a non-crit. Weird.

If you're still curious, these are my results:

Lynx7386

I ran 5 leeching, 5 bahraha's, and 2 grothdar on my saptank nightblade back pre-morrowind and for a short time after, it was great for farming things like skyreach or (slowly) soloing world bosses, but far less effective after the sap tank nerf.

If you wanted to run the setup on another class, there's other options. A dragonknight could swap bahraha's for morag tong and grothdar for spawn of mephala to focus on poison damage, add in noxious breath and corrosive armor for some extra mitigation and poison damage output.

DoonerSeraph

I kinda like running it on my templar, Restoring Focus gives minor mending, vitality and protection, a nice package for double dipping self heals.

TankHealz2015

DoonerSeraph wrote: »

Well, I know i'm necroing this thread but, I've made some testing with different CPs and buffs to see what does affect de et and what does not.The first three columns are the damage done (per tick) by each set (Bahrahas, Leeching and Malubeth), and the last three are the base healing of each tick of the set (Malubeth accounting for major vitality, the others dont).

A quick TL;DR:

All the sets are affected by Mending, Vitality, Blessed CP, Quick Recovery CP, Spell Erosion CP (yes, even Leeching) and Thaumaturge CP.
They are NOT affected by Master At Arms or Piercing.

Mighty affects the damage of Leeching Plate.
Elemental Expert affect the damage of Bahraha's Curse and Malubeth.

Curiously, Malubeth heal does crit, but the healing is not increased at all, thats why I've tested Elfborn. The healing counts as a crit, but its the same healing as a non-crit. Weird.

If you're still curious, these are my results:

Your results differ from the OP above and also from my tooltip results.
Any ideas why? tooltip? dummy test? ZOS changes?

I did not actually equip the below sets; i just hovered over each set using my current CP allocation.

My tooltips read:

Bahara's Curse = 946 / w slimecraw = 1012

Leeching Plate = 1231 / w slimecraw = 1324

Defending Warrior/Resilient Yokeda = 4401 / w slimecraw = 4710

Livewire = 1102 / w slimecraw = 1102 (weird- no change)

Thunderbug = 5677 / w slimecraw = 6075


My CP distribution/max CP:

Quick Recovery = 43 = 10.15%
Blessed = 75 = 14%
Elfborn = 2 = 1%
Elemental Expert = 75 = 14%
Spell Erosion = 88 = 5203

(non-relevant CP points not listed)

Using a weapon with "powered" trait (+ healing) seems to increase the tooltip also, but i don;t have it equipped atm.



Wondering if anybody has gotten higher numbers.

DoonerSeraph

TankHealz2015 wrote: »

DoonerSeraph wrote: »

Well, I know i'm necroing this thread but, I've made some testing with different CPs and buffs to see what does affect de et and what does not.The first three columns are the damage done (per tick) by each set (Bahrahas, Leeching and Malubeth), and the last three are the base healing of each tick of the set (Malubeth accounting for major vitality, the others dont).

A quick TL;DR:

All the sets are affected by Mending, Vitality, Blessed CP, Quick Recovery CP, Spell Erosion CP (yes, even Leeching) and Thaumaturge CP.
They are NOT affected by Master At Arms or Piercing.

Mighty affects the damage of Leeching Plate.
Elemental Expert affect the damage of Bahraha's Curse and Malubeth.

Curiously, Malubeth heal does crit, but the healing is not increased at all, thats why I've tested Elfborn. The healing counts as a crit, but its the same healing as a non-crit. Weird.

If you're still curious, these are my results:

Your results differ from the OP above and also from my tooltip results.
Any ideas why? tooltip? dummy test? ZOS changes?

I did not actually equip the below sets; i just hovered over each set using my current CP allocation.

My tooltips read:

Bahara's Curse = 946 / w slimecraw = 1012

Leeching Plate = 1231 / w slimecraw = 1324

Defending Warrior/Resilient Yokeda = 4401 / w slimecraw = 4710

Livewire = 1102 / w slimecraw = 1102 (weird- no change)

Thunderbug = 5677 / w slimecraw = 6075


My CP distribution/max CP:

Quick Recovery = 43 = 10.15%
Blessed = 75 = 14%
Elfborn = 2 = 1%
Elemental Expert = 75 = 14%
Spell Erosion = 88 = 5203

(non-relevant CP points not listed)

Using a weapon with "powered" trait (+ healing) seems to increase the tooltip also, but i don;t have it equipped atm.



Wondering if anybody has gotten higher numbers.

I never used slimecraw to test the build, I can do it though. Pretty sure ir would increase damage and by proxy, healing. I didnt paid attention to tooltip stats since i've tested against netches in Deshaan overland, looking up the results on Combat Metrics (thats why the numbers are a little lower since they got defenses accounted for). Leeching and Malubeth are procced on taking damage, so a dummy is not that useful on the subject of testing those sets.

Tooltips can be awfully innacurate unfortunately. A powered trait weapon would increase the healing yes, i didnt use one to avoid tampering and getting a less variable result as possible.

Savos_Saren

This necro has turned out to be a good thing!

My suggestion: Use Slimecraw, a powered weapon, and The Ritual as your mundus.

TankHealz2015

Xynode (immortal tank build) uses Leeching Plate + Ironblood + Pirate Skeleton (very impressive youtube video)

Looks like he got up to 1399 damage (tootip) with Leeching Plate

weapon sets are gold quality.

Wondering what is the highest numbers anybody has achieved with these sets:

Bahara's Curse, Leeching Plate, Defending Warrior/Resilient Yokeda, Thunderbug