We need more restrictions to enter dungeons.

montjie

It's kinda weird you can't enter Vaults of Madness on let's say a lvl 25 character but there's nothing preventing same character to enter White Gold Tower. Despite the restriction being a zone based relic from the pre One Tamriel days it was still nice to see some kind progressionmap considering the dungeons.

Moving on to veteran dungeons the problem gets even worse where it's very common for cp50 chars (or something like that) to be put in content like vWGT.

Wouldn't it be a better idea to have certain content locked behind some kind of level and/or skill check?
Something like you can't enter vWGT unless you have completed nWGT and/or have at least xxxCP.
Or maybe you increase the difficulty of normal dungeons a bit (don't get all heated up now, it's only just a little bit) so players are more required to play by mechanics instead of powering through with dps and springspams. You then reward those players with achievements and let's say when you collect all of those achievements in a certain dungeon, it unlocks its veteran mode for you. Kinda like how you get the pet in the IC dungs and the skins in the SotH dungs etc.

Look, I don't mind helping out less experienced players that are in a bit of a jam during a dungeon fight. I'll explain the mechanics, I'll give you tips on how to play your role more effectively, I'll toss you some usefull pots, I'll give you a decent foodbuff if you lack one. But it's getting out of hand when your tank dies to trashmobs, your healers best way to heal his group is spamming regeneration and your dd are spamming light/heavy attacks while running around like headless chicken. Sure, I know this is a worst case scenario but stuff like this happens way too often and it really isn't helping anyone.

I don't mind players being able to access 'difficult' content. I do mind the easy access people have to this content as it leads to frustration and wasted time alot of times. Not to mention the demoralizing effect it can have on some players coming from normal dungeons to vet only to get smacked around like a ragdoll by the Overfiend in vICP for example.

What do you guys think, am I being an elitist *** or could this be something worth looking into?

Asardes

I have a few objections:
1) CPs are a bad indication of playing skills, I've seen plenty of CP500+ potatoes that could not pull 10K and failed to clear even the Adjudicator in vWGT.
2) "Low" level characters may in fact be very experienced players just pushing their low level characters trough the said dungeons for skill points, undaunted and random daily dungeon XP bonus.
3) Making players run normal before they run vet is also pointless, on one hand because normal is so easy that it teaches nothing, on the other because there could be a very experienced player running behind a freshly minted vet char for the same reasons. I for one ran the vet ones directly and only ran nICP once duo for the stupid sneak achievement which I couldn't do with 4 people in group because one always screwed up.

IMO putting restriction solves nothing, but it creates a whole set of problems. For example new players who subbed precisely to get access to the DLC dungeons will find themselves locked out of the normal version because they are not high enough. That would turn many of them off, making them cancel their sub and probably look for other games that have faster progression. Why do you think they are made available straight away? I don't know if the vanilla dungeons still have the old restrictions in place in group finder - they would make no sense today with everything battles scaled to CP160 - but if they have they have to go.

If you don't look having bad experiences in dungeons you have two solutions:
1) Solo them - doable for almost all normal ones, even the vet ones, including DLC if you are truly "elite".
2) Run it with your friends you trust, or join a guild that has some entrance "exam" for people so you don't get even more potatoes.

As for the group finder, don't look the gift horse in the mouth.

DirkRavenclaw

I find, non DLC Dungeons should be seperate. Im a DPS, quite good, if i may say so, in most Dungeons but even i on cp302 struggle on normal WGT for example. ICP as well, depending on Group. I have given up on random, do it only when im with 1 or 2 Guildmates.

LadyNalcarya

I think its kinda stupid that your selection of dungeons at level 10 consists of nFG1, nSpindle, nBC... and DLC dungeons. They arent too hard, but for a fresh lvl 10 they might be impossible.
I also think that ZOS chose the wrong route of "rising the floor and lowering the ceiling". The main problem is that new players are overwhelmed, the game doesnt teach them anything about roles, dps rotations, taunting bosses etc. The difference between casual dd player and average raid dd is colossal, even if crafted/BoE sets can technically provide good dps. Also, Morrowind sustain nerf was really hard for unoptimized builds and groups. After all, raid groups have buffs, support, and in pugs youre lucky if you get ele drain.
I like the fact that top dps in this game requires some effort, but it really sucks that there's not much middle grounds between "casual questers" and "raid dds".

P.S. And yeah, cps arent a good indicator or player's skill. Theres so many dolmen grinders that fail even in easy dungeons... People seem to think that reaching 660 cps would magically give you at least 30k dps, but it reality it doesnt.
I suspect that some of those cp660 noobs bought gold (for Skyreach carries) or already leveled accounts... Otheriwise I cant explain why a cp600+ guy would play like its his first day in game.

Asardes

DirkRavenclaw wrote: »

I find, non DLC Dungeons should be seperate. Im a DPS, quite good, if i may say so, in most Dungeons but even i on cp302 struggle on normal WGT for example. ICP as well, depending on Group. I have given up on random, do it only when im with 1 or 2 Guildmates.

Do you struggle because of your DPS or the fact the other people mess up the mechanics? At CP300 20-25K DPS single target is achievable even in crafted purple gear since you have the same stats as a CP660+ (the stat bonus is capped at 20% for CP300) and about 85-90% of the damage boosting/mitigation ones in place as well. With that much DPS the mobs in any normal dungeons pretty much melt if you barely touch them

Mancombe_Nosehair

You can't do anything about the dlc dungeons as people have paid for them. However, I do find it odd that you get access to 3 normal 2 dungeons at lvl10 but not some of the easier normal 1 dungeons until later.

If it were me, I would give the normal 2 dungeons after normal 1's, say lvl 30 or something.

That way, if you do a random normal and get a normal 2, you know you are getting higher level players as a result. However, as someone said above, level doesn't indicate the skill level of a player.

montjie

@Asardes
Considering your points 1 and 2. The only times I referred to low level players was in examples. I know being a low lvl player doesn't automatically mean you're a bad players. I've met my share of good low lvl players and with this being my 2nd account I've surprised many other players with my ingame performance while being at low lvl too. Hence why I also suggested some sort of skillcheck. I know powerlevelers are here and some of them perform even worse than some low lvl players. I just thought people would assume I was referring to them too as I was talking about less experienced players. But I was wrong xD

Your point 3 however. Have you even read my full post? Did you read the part where the suggestion is made on increasing difficulty in normal dungeons?

You talk about people being put off and going to other games for faster progression, but honestly tell me. What kind of progression is there to begin with if you have access to what you want upon purchase? Is there anything faster than instant?

You take my post and try to transform the message in it into something that's completely different. Either you didn't understand me, if so I'll try to use other wording next time, or you're purposefully ignoring what's acutally being discussed.

idk

montjie wrote: »

Wouldn't it be a better idea to have certain content locked behind some kind of level and/or skill check?

Yes, Zos should implement where 35k+ single target dps is required to enter a DLC Dungeon. Very doable and encourages players. Healers would have a similar type of requirement but we would need to figure out how to measure tanks. Maybe all of them would need to have a dps that can pull 35k dps to enter a DLC dungeon.

Great idea OP.

Asardes

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

Wouldn't it be a better idea to have certain content locked behind some kind of level and/or skill check?

Yes, Zos should implement where 35k+ single target dps is required to enter a DLC Dungeon. Very doable and encourages players. Healers would have a similar type of requirement but we would need to figure out how to measure tanks. Maybe all of them would need to have a dps that can pull 35k dps to enter a DLC dungeon.

Great idea OP.

Healers should not be able to enter vWGT unless they have BiS trial gear

montjie

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

Wouldn't it be a better idea to have certain content locked behind some kind of level and/or skill check?

Yes, Zos should implement where 35k+ single target dps is required to enter a DLC Dungeon. Very doable and encourages players. Healers would have a similar type of requirement but we would need to figure out how to measure tanks. Maybe all of them would need to have a dps that can pull 35k dps to enter a DLC dungeon.

Great idea OP.

Don't know whats more laughable, you thinking DPS is a 'true' skill indicator, or you thinking your post is funny somewhat.

luton0watford4 wrote: »

You can't do anything about the dlc dungeons as people have paid for them. However, I do find it odd that you get access to 3 normal 2 dungeons at lvl10 but not some of the easier normal 1 dungeons until later.

If it were me, I would give the normal 2 dungeons after normal 1's, say lvl 30 or something.

That way, if you do a random normal and get a normal 2, you know you are getting higher level players as a result. However, as someone said above, level doesn't indicate the skill level of a player.

Wait what?
So you pay for the game, you get locked out of some dungeons because you lack the level for them. That's all good.
You pay for a DLC, and you shouldn't be locked out of it's dungeons under 'x' circumstances because....You paid for the DLC
Wait....WHAT??

Asardes

montjie wrote: »

@Asardes
Considering your points 1 and 2. The only times I referred to low level players was in examples. I know being a low lvl player doesn't automatically mean you're a bad players. I've met my share of good low lvl players and with this being my 2nd account I've surprised many other players with my ingame performance while being at low lvl too. Hence why I also suggested some sort of skillcheck. I know powerlevelers are here and some of them perform even worse than some low lvl players. I just thought people would assume I was referring to them too as I was talking about less experienced players. But I was wrong xD

Your point 3 however. Have you even read my full post? Did you read the part where the suggestion is made on increasing difficulty in normal dungeons?

You talk about people being put off and going to other games for faster progression, but honestly tell me. What kind of progression is there to begin with if you have access to what you want upon purchase? Is there anything faster than instant?

You take my post and try to transform the message in it into something that's completely different. Either you didn't understand me, if so I'll try to use other wording next time, or you're purposefully ignoring what's acutally being discussed.

Well I have addressed the normal difficulty increase tangentially, mentioning the access part. The point is that ~90% of the players in this game will never do veteran content. Because they don't have the motivation to learn playing, gear for it. But they will still sub, buy pretty stuff from the crown store, bringing revenue to Zenimax. So they are equal, and sometimes more profitable for them than the more dedicated player that probably has no time for RP and fluff. So it makes sense to have very low difficulty content for those players to enjoy too. Already some "very good DD" mentioned he has problems doing the normal mode dungeons. How do you feel people that don't even know what a tank or healer does, or what "rotation" means will handle that increase in difficulty. I've thought about increasing the normal difficulty before but came to those conclusions, based on discussions on the forum, and what the developers themselves have stated, directly and indirectly about their player base. Why do you think they repeatedly nerfed those dungeons? The ideal solution would be to make available an intermediate difficulty between normal and veteran, but financially the investment would have to be justified. It's probably not, since the player base is made up mostly of players who don't want to progress to end game, and the ones that do progress do so despite the high jumps involved.

The more general problem with this game is that there isn't any in-game tutorial that teaches people how to play in general and in group content in particular. Besides, block/bash/heavy attack tutorial in the Wailing Prison/Firemoth Island and the hints on the tool tips of some skills there's really no indication how to play. This is not new for Bethesda/Zenimax. They always relied on the community not only to teach, but even fix their own stuff. If you search for older single players TES games you will find "unofficial patches" that fixed really bad, some even game breaking bugs that went un-patched for years. Also look at the way they fumble with the current patches, buff things now, nerf some others 3 months later, than one year from now go full circle (ex. the traits were exactly as they are now before the DB update). Also see how much basic functionality that has been omitted from the game UI has been only made available trough mods. Look trough a guild store without MM and Awesome Guild store and prepare to tear your hair out. It's simply how they do stuff. I've gotten accustomed to it over the last 15 years

idk

montjie wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

Wouldn't it be a better idea to have certain content locked behind some kind of level and/or skill check?

Yes, Zos should implement where 35k+ single target dps is required to enter a DLC Dungeon. Very doable and encourages players. Healers would have a similar type of requirement but we would need to figure out how to measure tanks. Maybe all of them would need to have a dps that can pull 35k dps to enter a DLC dungeon.

Great idea OP.

Don't know whats more laughable, you thinking DPS is a 'true' skill indicator, or you thinking your post is funny somewhat.

Granted, sarcasm does not come through via text very well. I think the OP post is narrow minded. Anyone can form their own group and via that method can have whatever requirements they want. If they want to use GF then they can deal with what comes their way, or not.

Considering suggests one possible method to bar the gate is CP like it somehow demonstrates skill is most laughable.

DirkRavenclaw

Asardes wrote: »

DirkRavenclaw wrote: »

I find, non DLC Dungeons should be seperate. Im a DPS, quite good, if i may say so, in most Dungeons but even i on cp302 struggle on normal WGT for example. ICP as well, depending on Group. I have given up on random, do it only when im with 1 or 2 Guildmates.

Do you struggle because of your DPS or the fact the other people mess up the mechanics? At CP300 20-25K DPS single target is achievable even in crafted purple gear since you have the same stats as a CP660+ (the stat bonus is capped at 20% for CP300) and about 85-90% of the damage boosting/mitigation ones in place as well. With that much DPS the mobs in any normal dungeons pretty much melt if you barely touch them

I begin to see better DPS results but this beeing my very first MMO, i still struggle with mechaniks. Mobs are less of a problem now but some Bosses, like WGT or ICP are quite tricky. But, have found some lovely Guilds, so im getting there

montjie

@Asardes
Those are some very good points you make there man. I haven't looked upon it from a busines PoV.

I must say to those that don't wish to improve over time: Why are you even playing an RPG then?
But fine, everyone is free to play whatever, however and having said that I still believe there is a way for ZOS to keep those that don't wish to improve satisfied, while creating a better learning platform for those that do wish to improve.

Asardes

DirkRavenclaw wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

DirkRavenclaw wrote: »

I find, non DLC Dungeons should be seperate. Im a DPS, quite good, if i may say so, in most Dungeons but even i on cp302 struggle on normal WGT for example. ICP as well, depending on Group. I have given up on random, do it only when im with 1 or 2 Guildmates.

Do you struggle because of your DPS or the fact the other people mess up the mechanics? At CP300 20-25K DPS single target is achievable even in crafted purple gear since you have the same stats as a CP660+ (the stat bonus is capped at 20% for CP300) and about 85-90% of the damage boosting/mitigation ones in place as well. With that much DPS the mobs in any normal dungeons pretty much melt if you barely touch them

I begin to see better DPS results but this beeing my very first MMO, i still struggle with mechaniks. Mobs are less of a problem now but some Bosses, like WGT or ICP are quite tricky. But, have found some lovely Guilds, so im getting there

Well if you are making an effort to improve because you see your shortcomings you have the right mentality. The biggest problems in this game come from people who suck but they don't want to admit it because they see they have CP500+ from mindlessly grinding mobs somewhere but learned nothing. From the height of their imaginary numbers they look down on anything who dares to give them advice.

montjie

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

Wouldn't it be a better idea to have certain content locked behind some kind of level and/or skill check?

Yes, Zos should implement where 35k+ single target dps is required to enter a DLC Dungeon. Very doable and encourages players. Healers would have a similar type of requirement but we would need to figure out how to measure tanks. Maybe all of them would need to have a dps that can pull 35k dps to enter a DLC dungeon.

Great idea OP.

Don't know whats more laughable, you thinking DPS is a 'true' skill indicator, or you thinking your post is funny somewhat.

Granted, sarcasm does not come through via text very well. I think the OP post is narrow minded. Anyone can form their own group and via that method can have whatever requirements they want. If they want to use GF then they can deal with what comes their way, or not.

Considering suggests one possible method to bar the gate is CP like it somehow demonstrates skill is most laughable.

In what way is my OP narrow-minded again?
Keep filtering out specific parts of a whole to make your comments valid mate. Anyone with at least half a brain sees what you're doing lol.

I never stated cp means skills just to be clear. Some content is just brutal, (barely) undoable if the mechanics are not followed and the cp count is (very) low.

Asardes

montjie wrote: »

@Asardes
Those are some very good points you make there man. I haven't looked upon it from a busines PoV.

I must say to those that don't wish to improve over time: Why are you even playing an RPG then?
But fine, everyone is free to play whatever, however and having said that I still believe there is a way for ZOS to keep those that don't wish to improve satisfied, while creating a better learning platform for those that do wish to improve.

Most people want to enjoy the story. They play this game just like it were a single player TES game. Since they haven't made one of those in 6 years this is the only alternative. In Morrowind, Oblivion or Skyrim you could spam light and heavy attacks and still finish the game easily. In fact in those games that was pretty much the only combat system there was. Most "special attacks" were done by direction keystroke + attack button. There were no sets for the most part, just some unique items, and in Skyrim you could improve any armor to the point you were well past the mitigation cap. When you try to bring people from such simple minded games you have to really lower the floor to not make them trip. And as things look at this moment we'll not see another single player TES game for a long time. Why develop a new game when you can simply incorporate the setting and story in a readily made platform? If you look at how DLCs were developed, besides IC and the two dungeon updates, everything catered almost exclusively to the casual player. Some of them had endgame content, but that was a small part. So this is a good indication they know how plays their game and pays for it.

Trinity_Is_My_Name

I think it is fine as is. More restrictions means playing the game's content is harder to achieve. On a side note you can enter all dungeons at level 1 if you want to. The Dungeon Finder has restrictions but grouping with someone or simply walking into a dungeon only has the Normal mode restriction. I've done many dungeons while leveling toons at level 10 simply by grouping with a friend or in some cases just walking in.

montjie

Asardes wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

@Asardes
Those are some very good points you make there man. I haven't looked upon it from a busines PoV.

I must say to those that don't wish to improve over time: Why are you even playing an RPG then?
But fine, everyone is free to play whatever, however and having said that I still believe there is a way for ZOS to keep those that don't wish to improve satisfied, while creating a better learning platform for those that do wish to improve.

Most people want to enjoy the story. They play this game just like it were a single player TES game. Since they haven't made one of those in 6 years this is the only alternative. In Morrowind, Oblivion or Skyrim you could spam light and heavy attacks and still finish the game easily. In fact in those games that was pretty much the only combat system there was. Most "special attacks" were done by direction keystroke + attack button. There were no sets for the most part, just some unique items, and in Skyrim you could improve any armor to the point you were well past the mitigation cap. When you try to bring people from such simple minded games you have to really lower the floor to not make them trip. And as things look at this moment we'll not see another single player TES game for a long time. Why develop a new game when you can simply incorporate the setting and story in a readily made platform? If you look at how DLCs were developed, besides IC and the two dungeon updates, everything catered almost exclusively to the casual player. Some of them had endgame content, but that was a small part. So this is a good indication they know how plays their game and pays for it.

But dungeons add little to nothing to the overall story, let alone the story completion. It's a different part of the game. I get people wanting to relive the Skyrim experience. TBFH I thought this game was gonna be Skyrim: Online at first. The only reason why I got interested in it but I soon came to realise it was way more than that and adapted accordingly because the game gave me the opportunities to do so. I get ZOS wants to make money but why make something to have a hefty chunk of it get discarded like it's nothing because you're unwilling to steer more people towards it.
You can still relive somewhat of the Skyrim experience in One Tamriel, chill in your house, wack a delveboss or two. All those things are still possible in ESO.

But IMO simplifying a stepping stone to the most difficult content in the game isn't the way to go.

Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »

I think it is fine as is. More restrictions means playing the game's content is harder to achieve. On a side note you can enter all dungeons at level 1 if you want to. The Dungeon Finder has restrictions but grouping with someone or simply walking into a dungeon only has the Normal mode restriction. I've done many dungeons while leveling toons at level 10 simply by grouping with a friend or in some cases just walking in.

What if they would implement something like that to ALL dungeons?
You're cp100 and wanna do vFH? Grab 2-3 other guys from your friendslist, zone chat, guild whatever and have a go at it. No groupfinder involved unless the group is full so you still get the GF buff.
But if you want to use GF without having a full group you have to meet certain requirements first.

Would that be so unreasonable?

Jeremy

montjie wrote: »

It's kinda weird you can't enter Vaults of Madness on let's say a lvl 25 character but there's nothing preventing same character to enter White Gold Tower. Despite the restriction being a zone based relic from the pre One Tamriel days it was still nice to see some kind progressionmap considering the dungeons.

Moving on to veteran dungeons the problem gets even worse where it's very common for cp50 chars (or something like that) to be put in content like vWGT.

Wouldn't it be a better idea to have certain content locked behind some kind of level and/or skill check?
Something like you can't enter vWGT unless you have completed nWGT and/or have at least xxxCP.
Or maybe you increase the difficulty of normal dungeons a bit (don't get all heated up now, it's only just a little bit) so players are more required to play by mechanics instead of powering through with dps and springspams. You then reward those players with achievements and let's say when you collect all of those achievements in a certain dungeon, it unlocks its veteran mode for you. Kinda like how you get the pet in the IC dungs and the skins in the SotH dungs etc.

Look, I don't mind helping out less experienced players that are in a bit of a jam during a dungeon fight. I'll explain the mechanics, I'll give you tips on how to play your role more effectively, I'll toss you some usefull pots, I'll give you a decent foodbuff if you lack one. But it's getting out of hand when your tank dies to trashmobs, your healers best way to heal his group is spamming regeneration and your dd are spamming light/heavy attacks while running around like headless chicken. Sure, I know this is a worst case scenario but stuff like this happens way too often and it really isn't helping anyone.

I don't mind players being able to access 'difficult' content. I do mind the easy access people have to this content as it leads to frustration and wasted time alot of times. Not to mention the demoralizing effect it can have on some players coming from normal dungeons to vet only to get smacked around like a ragdoll by the Overfiend in vICP for example.

What do you guys think, am I being an elitist *** or could this be something worth looking into?

Well, I would agree there needs to be a more accurate measure by which difficulty is gauged on this game. Simply normal or vet isn't sufficient considering the vast differences between dungeons and the fact not all veteran dungeons are created equally.

Other than that - I believe players that use the random group finder should prepare themselves for random results. For those who consider that a waste of time - they should probably refrain from using such a tool and stick to building their own groups.

I do do like your idea to make completion of normal mode a prerequisite for doing veteran mode though. The developers should implement that - though I'm not sure as to how much difference it would actually make in-game. Because there is often a lot of ground to cover between normal and veteran.

Asardes

If you follow the dungeon story, it actually does match the lore of that zone pretty well and sometimes it's directly linked to the overland quests in some way. For example the Banished Cells dungeon quest dovetails pretty well with an overland quest in that area involving the illegitimate son of Lord Rilis who wants to "borrow" a magic helmet. The only exception is MoL which has nothing to do with Thieves Guild whatsoever and can be seen as a "rider" to borrow a legislative term. But it was added in Reaper's March, and it fits the Khajiit lore - you can actually encounter the dro-m'Athra in several of the main and side quests in that zone, and also in one from Stonefalls. So the dungeons do complement the overland content and they are quite beautifully designed. So they make a legit destination for the casual explorer and role-player. Gating them off would defeat the purpose of having them in the game in the first place.

Nestor

I just want to know why every single time I queue for a Random Vet Dungeon it is a DLC or Vet CoAII? Never any of the other ones. The ones I do get Queued for are not ones I want to Pug.

zaria

luton0watford4 wrote: »

You can't do anything about the dlc dungeons as people have paid for them. However, I do find it odd that you get access to 3 normal 2 dungeons at lvl10 but not some of the easier normal 1 dungeons until later.

If it were me, I would give the normal 2 dungeons after normal 1's, say lvl 30 or something.

That way, if you do a random normal and get a normal 2, you know you are getting higher level players as a result. However, as someone said above, level doesn't indicate the skill level of a player.

Number of level 15 who want to pug dlc dungeons is very limited.
Most get the dungeons with eso+, or packages.

Remove level requirement if you are in an 4 man group.
You could easy have an higher requirement for random dungeon than if you select one select one specific.
with random dungeon you get the 1 then the single instance then 2 and last dlc.

Renan

Sometimes you are the low lvl and you damage is around 80% of group dps with some cp 300 potato magicka sorc dps using a ice staff

idk

montjie wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

Wouldn't it be a better idea to have certain content locked behind some kind of level and/or skill check?

Yes, Zos should implement where 35k+ single target dps is required to enter a DLC Dungeon. Very doable and encourages players. Healers would have a similar type of requirement but we would need to figure out how to measure tanks. Maybe all of them would need to have a dps that can pull 35k dps to enter a DLC dungeon.

Great idea OP.

Don't know whats more laughable, you thinking DPS is a 'true' skill indicator, or you thinking your post is funny somewhat.

Granted, sarcasm does not come through via text very well. I think the OP post is narrow minded. Anyone can form their own group and via that method can have whatever requirements they want. If they want to use GF then they can deal with what comes their way, or not.

Considering suggests one possible method to bar the gate is CP like it somehow demonstrates skill is most laughable.

In what way is my OP narrow-minded again?
Keep filtering out specific parts of a whole to make your comments valid mate. Anyone with at least half a brain sees what you're doing lol.

I never stated cp means skills just to be clear. Some content is just brutal, (barely) undoable if the mechanics are not followed and the cp count is (very) low.

1.you stated one of the possible requirements for WGT would be having Amount if CP which would clearly state it's somehow an indicator of skill or experience. It's a number that doesn't demonstrate

2. If you want to set requirements the you can. Go right agreed. Zos created a system just for fhat since we can form our own groups. Works great.

As for Placing requirements (other than adjusting levels for normal dungeons) it ain't gonna happen for clearly obvious reasons. Who's requirements will they use? That's were the LOL belongs.

Funny thing is, some of the best players hop into GF sometimes. Good thing those good players don't complain about GR in the forums. Wonder what kind of requirements they would suggest. Hmm. Oh. Maybe somewhere about 35k + dps.

Basically, it just might be you locked out of some dungeons if Zos were to implement something so short sighted.

Mancombe_Nosehair

montjie wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

Wouldn't it be a better idea to have certain content locked behind some kind of level and/or skill check?

Yes, Zos should implement where 35k+ single target dps is required to enter a DLC Dungeon. Very doable and encourages players. Healers would have a similar type of requirement but we would need to figure out how to measure tanks. Maybe all of them would need to have a dps that can pull 35k dps to enter a DLC dungeon.

Great idea OP.

Don't know whats more laughable, you thinking DPS is a 'true' skill indicator, or you thinking your post is funny somewhat.

luton0watford4 wrote: »

You can't do anything about the dlc dungeons as people have paid for them. However, I do find it odd that you get access to 3 normal 2 dungeons at lvl10 but not some of the easier normal 1 dungeons until later.

If it were me, I would give the normal 2 dungeons after normal 1's, say lvl 30 or something.

That way, if you do a random normal and get a normal 2, you know you are getting higher level players as a result. However, as someone said above, level doesn't indicate the skill level of a player.

Wait what?
So you pay for the game, you get locked out of some dungeons because you lack the level for them. That's all good.
You pay for a DLC, and you shouldn't be locked out of it's dungeons under 'x' circumstances because....You paid for the DLC
Wait....WHAT??

When you pay for the game, you get a large amount of dungeons (I don't know exactly how many, let's say 40 for argument's sake), of which the amount you can do depends on your level.

When you buy a dlc, you get additional access to one dungeon. If you restricted people access to the dungeons when you buy a dlc, then zos would lose out on sales because low level players wouldn't bother to buy the dlc. Think about it.

Personally I would rather see a different business model, but at the end of day, zos are including them in the dlc's, so we are stuck with it. If the dlc dungeons were normals 1, 2 and vet then it would be different.

DeadlyRecluse

I don't think more restrictions is the answer, but the system as it is now (which funnels the newest players disproportionately into the hardest dungeons) is pretty messed up.

I'd rather they remove the restrictions entirely (allowing low level chars to access the entire pool of nonDLC dungeons rather than a few nonDLC dungeons and 6 DLC ones, diluting the pool so to speak) or pull DLC dungeons from random queue.

idk

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

I don't think more restrictions is the answer, but the system as it is now (which funnels the newest players disproportionately into the hardest dungeons) is pretty messed up.

I'd rather they remove the restrictions entirely (allowing low level chars to access the entire pool of nonDLC dungeons rather than a few nonDLC dungeons and 6 DLC ones, diluting the pool so to speak) or pull DLC dungeons from random queue.

And it would make sense that the normal dungeons that require better area awareness to deal with mechanics and having decent AoE would be dungeons players would have access to at a later level.

More so that the newer player doesn't get turned off from the game because all this stuff is thrown at them when they're still figuring out the game. That would be the only reason.

montjie

@Asardes
True, absolutely right. But to which extent should that low threshold should be upholded? I get a business wants to make money, I get you're more inclined to walk the easiest path. But dunno man. Something just feels off the way things currently are.

@luton0watford4
Isn't that kinda hypocritical?

@DeadlyRecluse
It's an idea. But by pulling DLC dungs you're restricting them too. The unlock ALL dungeons idea could be worth looking into imo.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

Wouldn't it be a better idea to have certain content locked behind some kind of level and/or skill check?

Yes, Zos should implement where 35k+ single target dps is required to enter a DLC Dungeon. Very doable and encourages players. Healers would have a similar type of requirement but we would need to figure out how to measure tanks. Maybe all of them would need to have a dps that can pull 35k dps to enter a DLC dungeon.

Great idea OP.

Don't know whats more laughable, you thinking DPS is a 'true' skill indicator, or you thinking your post is funny somewhat.

Granted, sarcasm does not come through via text very well. I think the OP post is narrow minded. Anyone can form their own group and via that method can have whatever requirements they want. If they want to use GF then they can deal with what comes their way, or not.

Considering suggests one possible method to bar the gate is CP like it somehow demonstrates skill is most laughable.

In what way is my OP narrow-minded again?
Keep filtering out specific parts of a whole to make your comments valid mate. Anyone with at least half a brain sees what you're doing lol.

I never stated cp means skills just to be clear. Some content is just brutal, (barely) undoable if the mechanics are not followed and the cp count is (very) low.

1.you stated one of the possible requirements for WGT would be having Amount if CP which would clearly state it's somehow an indicator of skill or experience. It's a number that doesn't demonstrate


2. If you want to set requirements the you can. Go right agreed. Zos created a system just for fhat since we can form our own groups. Works great.

As for Placing requirements (other than adjusting levels for normal dungeons) it ain't gonna happen for clearly obvious reasons. Who's requirements will they use? That's were the LOL belongs.

Funny thing is, some of the best players hop into GF sometimes. Good thing those good players don't complain about GR in the forums. Wonder what kind of requirements they would suggest. Hmm. Oh. Maybe somewhere about 35k + dps.

Basically, it just might be you locked out of some dungeons if Zos were to implement something so short sighted.

1. This is a lie.
First of all there's a difference between would and could.
Second you assume the reason why I used cp in that example in the first place and you miss your target completely. Never have I stated that cp equals a certain lvl of skill. I've even agreed with some here regarding the falsehood of that statement so why would I use that if I don't even think it's true? CP grant stats. Some dungeons in current conditions are just undoable if stats and experience are both lacking (picture a group of inexperienced players, none over 130cp fighting the Ash Titan in vCoA2 and tell me without lying CP can't play a big factor in that fights outcome)
Third, even if what you claim I said was true, it still says little to nothing about the post in its entirety.

2. Please cut the crap with these kind of 'solutions' seriously. You're just saying nothing with words. What about the ones who are new to the game and don't have friends or guildmates yet? They don't know how to or don't want to form a group like most of us do. GF wasn't made for people to play on their terms. Granted it's a nice bonus but it was put there so people could get in dungeons quick. Without the 'hassel' of creating your own group. And it does exactly that. The problem however, is the skill gap is incredibly huge between the type of dungeons the players get thrown into.

Who's requirements? Again. ZOS could implement something like you do normal dungeons and get achievements for doing certain stuff a dungeoncreator deems important to clear said dungeon. Once you get a collection of those achievements, its vet mode unlocks for you. That way people who play those vet dungeons at least know what is going on around them instead of running in blind to their slaughter. If you then still want to run around spamming light attacks in vet dungs, by all means go for it but at least you know what's happening and what you should be doing.

SIgh again with the dps bull. Ironic how you keep calling me shortsighted.

If I would get locked out of a dungeon because of something like that I'd just go meet the prerequisites. It's the same as doing stuff now on a new character. You might have all the dungeon achievements on your main but on an alt you have zero. What do you do? Moan about you already having the achieves on your main or do you just go do the dungeons again on your alt, maybe even getting all 5 achieves in 1 run?

ZOS already restricts players using the groupfinder and even some who don't. So why not a bit more control over who gets to do what and when so everyone gets a (slightly) better experience?

Soleya

I think the issue is that there are restrictions on dungeons in the first place. VoM is one of the easier dungeons to complete, no reason why you shouldn't be allowed to do it at level 10.

SoLooney

i dont know why the dlc dungeons dont have a level limit, even on normal, its hard for sub 50s to complete.

i dont think any of the non dlc dungeons should have a level limit, theyre pretty much faceroll easy, and manageable for an average group