Templar vs Warden (Healer)

Nic727

Hi,

My character is a Bosmer and a Templar. Templar is a very good class for healing, but with the release of the Warden, I thought that maybe it could fit better for a Bosmer to be with a class focused on nature. I would like to know, as a healer, what's the best class? I know that Warden can heal people, but I read something about it's only 60° and not 180°, so maybe it's not a good healer?

Thank you

PS: Just a small question like that, what's the Champion Gear when creating a new character? The Warden Champion Gear Set doesn't look that good compared to Bosmer Templar... Can I have the Champion Templar Set with a Warden Character?

AcadianPaladin

My Bosmer is a templar healer and I'm very happy with her. While not the most 'efficient' race for a magic-based character, she does fine and I wouldn't trade her for for a more popular healer race (Altmer, Breton, Argonian). Proper training, skill selection/slotting/use and appropriate gear is much more important than race.

I honestly don't see much 'nature' theme to the warden - Ice? Neon flourecsent plants and critters? Honestly the only 'nature' I see in the warden class is the bear - and, as healer, that is probably not the best choice for an ultimate.

Regarding the champion gear for class in character creation, you can safely ignore that. Any class can wear any style of any gear so you have the same control over how your character looks regardless of class.

My approach to healing is to provide the following for my group (in order of priority):
Healing - Burst Healing, Heal over Time (ideally, more than one), Area Healing.
Assistance with magicka and stamina recovery.
Buffs.
Debuffs.
Damage.

Nic727

Thank you very much.

Mayrael

It depends what you want to focus on. Templar is still more efficient healer - stronger heals. But Warden is the best support class at the moment imho, it has many buffs for whole group and useful utilities. Its pretty new class so it will take some time to discover his true potential, but its pretty fun class to play - a bit jack of all trades.

zaria

I say templar is an easier healer class because of breath of life it make things easier in chaotic settings.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

zaria wrote: »

I say templar is an easier healer class because of breath of life it make things easier in chaotic settings.

If you can't heal with healing ward/ward ally then either you or your team wouldn't be saved by breath. You ought to have at least 2 hots going at all times in four man content, that is Mutegen/rapid regen and extended ritual/ritual of retribution for temps and leaching vines as a warden. With ward as a back up for when burst happens, these skills are generally more then enough to get you though four man stuff.

zaria

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

I say templar is an easier healer class because of breath of life it make things easier in chaotic settings.

If you can't heal with healing ward/ward ally then either you or your team wouldn't be saved by breath. You ought to have at least 2 hots going at all times in four man content, that is Mutegen/rapid regen and extended ritual/ritual of retribution for temps and leaching vines as a warden. With ward as a back up for when burst happens, these skills are generally more then enough to get you though four man stuff.

I know and I do, even have combat physician on warden, warden healing works pretty well. However know its content there warden would have far more problems than templar.
Even more so with an inexperienced healer.

Bherdani

I'm not much help with Wardens, but if you're interested in theorycraftyour on your Templar I have quite a few recommendations http://elderscrubsonline.com/PVEhealing

In regards to your race, a lot of folks will tell you Bosmer is not a good choice. If you don't plan to do competitive raiding, then you can just ignore them But as far as skills and gear, it's mostly the same. This page will give you a lot of options you can pick and choose from, whatever you find useful for you.

SoLooney

I see wardens as average healers. Hardly ever see wardens as main healers but i see plenty of dps and tanks that use them as off healers.
warden healers should be fine for most content but Id rather have templar healers for end game vet trials.

so all in all, i think templars make better healers

EleonoraCrendraven

zaria wrote: »

...You ought to have at least 2 hots going at all times in four man content, that is Mutegen/rapid regen and extended ritual/ritual of retribution for temps and leaching vines as a warden. With ward as a back up for when burst happens, these skills are generally more then enough to get you though four man stuff.

As a templar healing dungeonfinder-groups: with most groups, it is not enough

AcadianPaladin

Again, I can only speak as a templar. I try to keep the boss/tank area under HoTs from both Extended Ritual and Purifying Light while I try to keep everyone under Rapid Regen. Then Healing Springs is my primary money maker for light area/targeted augmentation. BoL generally means something is not going well but can sometimes save the day. Since there are other things I need to run (Shards, Eledrain and a couple more) I don't have room to slot Combat Prayer. I choose Springs over Prayer due range/flexibility considerations as I often heal for spread out groups like informal 'gaggles' vs WB.

FakeFox

First of all and so that nobody feels offended: Yes, you can heal with every class.

So if you wan't to just play casually just go with whatever you want. But were such questions start to matter is if you want to go for leader boards. So here is my opinion:

Templar > Sorc > Warden > Dragonknight > Nightblade

What makes Templar the overall best is that he is simply the most reliable healer, with very fast and easy to use skills, and offers a good amount of unique utility while being also rather tanky.

Warden in comparison lacks responsiveness and reliability, while having weaker sustain and utility. To be fair, Warden also has unique things to offer for a group, but it's generally less useful then what the Templar can offer. The biggest problem though in my opinion is that Warden lacks a equivalent to breath of life and can therefore sometimes gets into situations where he can do nothing but let someone die, while a Templar in the same situation could have kept the person alive.

Edit: The "Champion Gear" only shows you what your character could look like. It's simply what the races standard gear style looks with 160 CP. For Templar and Dragonknight it shows heavy armour, for Warden and Nightblade medium and for Sorcerer light.

Megabear

As a fan of Warden, Templar is better.

exeeter702

FakeFox wrote: »

Templar > Sorc > Warden > Dragonknight > Nightblade

It is scientifically impossible for you to be more wrong than you currently are with this statement.

TheNuminous1

Mayrael wrote: »

It depends what you want to focus on. Templar is still more efficient healer - stronger heals. But Warden is the best support class at the moment imho, it has many buffs for whole group and useful utilities. Its pretty new class so it will take some time to discover his true potential, but its pretty fun class to play - a bit jack of all trades.

not true that templar has better burst. i have two burst heals that hit for more and hit 6 people on my warden. well maybe fungal growth does not hit for as much but budding seeds hits like a truck. plus fungal gives recovery. and again 6 people.

spell power cure and master architect on the warden healer. with the tree ulti. is amazing in 4 man dungeons. i also have a bosmer warden healer and i can do everything with it. its crazy good. once u understand the skills and potential you wont ever wanna play a templar again.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

TheNuminous1 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

It depends what you want to focus on. Templar is still more efficient healer - stronger heals. But Warden is the best support class at the moment imho, it has many buffs for whole group and useful utilities. Its pretty new class so it will take some time to discover his true potential, but its pretty fun class to play - a bit jack of all trades.

not true that templar has better burst. i have two burst heals that hit for more and hit 6 people on my warden. well maybe fungal growth does not hit for as much but budding seeds hits like a truck. plus fungal gives recovery. and again 6 people.

spell power cure and master architect on the warden healer. with the tree ulti. is amazing in 4 man dungeons. i also have a bosmer warden healer and i can do everything with it. its crazy good. once u understand the skills and potential you wont ever wanna play a templar again.

Technically, Templar has two burst heals, healing ritual and breath, healing ritual hits six people too, for much more then budding seeds, my healing ritual hits for almost 14k at base, with almost 27k crits. Of course breath of Lifes Omni direction secondary heal is almost 12k for me too, more then enough burst to bring anyone but a tank back to full, without looking at them.

And using the tree ulti is not for everyone, master architect is hard to get and warhorn is easier to manage.

SirDopey

I have both a templar and a warden healer. My templar has been the staple healer for me for many years but I'm about to respec him into full PVP mode as he's been retired.

The warden has taken a lot longer to master, and yes there were a couple of full blown wipes while I was still learning to use the class but I personally find it now surpasses the Templar.

The key is to keep HoTs up, the access to healing over time abilities more than makes up for the lack of BoL (which isn't all that great anymore). The instant bloom ability is a massive aoe heal and fungal growth and combat prayer are suitable substitutes for BoL.

On top of that, the Warden brings really nice armor/spell resistence buff to the table, reducing the need for healing. Provides an AOE source of major fracture for stamina dps, returns stamina and magicka to other players on heals and we of course have access to Orbs to make up for the loss of shards.

Gilliamtherogue

SirDopey wrote: »

I have both a templar and a warden healer. My templar has been the staple healer for me for many years but I'm about to respec him into full PVP mode as he's been retired.

The warden has taken a lot longer to master, and yes there were a couple of full blown wipes while I was still learning to use the class but I personally find it now surpasses the Templar.

The key is to keep HoTs up, the access to healing over time abilities more than makes up for the lack of BoL (which isn't all that great anymore). The instant bloom ability is a massive aoe heal and fungal growth and combat prayer are suitable substitutes for BoL.

On top of that, the Warden brings really nice armor/spell resistence buff to the table, reducing the need for healing. Provides an AOE source of major fracture for stamina dps, returns stamina and magicka to other players on heals and we of course have access to Orbs to make up for the loss of shards.

No they don't, they only restore Stamina or Magicka to themselves when healing with Green Balance skills. The only form of resource management they enable to other players is Enchanted Growth; which is Minor Endurance and Intellect and not unique to the Warden.

AoE Resistance buff is also capped at 6, and every class in the game has access to these buffs in their kit. While Warden healer's aren't bad, they're not that great in a min/max settings due to a lot of their forced gameplay aspects. Wardens are extremely positioning oriented, and require an insane amount of group coordination to properly utilize; which in return may hinder other aspects of efficiency in a raid or group environment.

Keeping two puglet DPS's who run around in their own little world as a Warden is much harder than as a Templar. Range requirement of Breath > Range + Hit box requirement of Growth. Shards' freedom of placement > Orb's straight line path for resource management.

The one major advantage Warden has over Templar, is Magicka management. Nature's Gift is grossly overpowered, as AoE spells will multi proc this passive. If you can manage to hit 6 people consistently with Bloom + Growth, you aren't running out of Magicka. Add in Trees and Netch, and you can easily get away with running Blue Food and Spell Damage enchants for higher raw healing.

Warden's also sacrafice a lot of group utility in order to keep up with Templar's healing output. Wardens depend greatly on Trees to throw out higher HPS values, which in turn removes the ability to Warhorn or Permafrost, meaning your group has no mitigation or massive damage spikes being enabled from their healer. In a 4 man this is whatever, but in a trial it definitely has some competitive disadvantages.

coolertin100b14_ESO

Tremendously late, but starting my new Healer Warden I'd have to heavily agree with the last fellow. Oh *** just realized he is the build guy. At any rate, the only thing that'd kind of dispute is why you said the warden couldnt take permafrost. Currently running Northern Storm, as I am a bozo who has been too lazy to make magicka glyphs, and in terms of usefulness i havent seen any. Granted i generally avoid vet content, but even when i did the high ulti cost made it substantially harder to find a time to use. Any time the mitigation might have been needed, throwing down trees seemed to be more effective. I am also using the morph that heals after leaving. My groupmates killed the adds fast enough since trees ontop of the usual aoe heals is kind of overkill. I guess my point/question would be is this immensely stupid in most vet and i just got lucky, or does it make sense?
Quick edit as i didnt mention, running Northern Storm on heal bar and Trees on desto bar. Mostly for passive but nice having the panic heal on that bar as well.

Dakmor_Kavu

coolertin100b14_ESO wrote: »

Tremendously late, but starting my new Healer Warden I'd have to heavily agree with the last fellow. Oh *** just realized he is the build guy. At any rate, the only thing that'd kind of dispute is why you said the warden couldnt take permafrost. Currently running Northern Storm, as I am a bozo who has been too lazy to make magicka glyphs, and in terms of usefulness i havent seen any. Granted i generally avoid vet content, but even when i did the high ulti cost made it substantially harder to find a time to use. Any time the mitigation might have been needed, throwing down trees seemed to be more effective. I am also using the morph that heals after leaving. My groupmates killed the adds fast enough since trees ontop of the usual aoe heals is kind of overkill. I guess my point/question would be is this immensely stupid in most vet and i just got lucky, or does it make sense?
Quick edit as i didnt mention, running Northern Storm on heal bar and Trees on desto bar. Mostly for passive but nice having the panic heal on that bar as well.

Trees are generally passed over in vet content. I personally will use it when I want to "lazy heal" and know my group can just waltz through content, but with unknown groups I tend to skip over it. For me there are 2 real reasons for this:

1. The extra healing generally isnt needed - Wardens in particular output a disgusting amount of raw healing power (I would vehemently argue its more than a templar having played both). Between healing springs, combat prayer, mutagen, fungal growth, leeching vines, and budding seeds, there really is a lot of health being thrown around by a warden. While it is cheap in cost, it just isnt (or shouldnt be) needed very often if at all. With all the other skills you have, there should be plenty of ways to keep your allies up. Even if a big sustained burst is coming in from a boss, make sure you have mutagen up for heals over time, drop down a healing springs and budding seeds, and cover any spikes with either combat prayer, fungal growth, or instant popping budding seeds. This should get you through basically every encounter, but if you need more protection there are some good options (see point 2).

Edit: I also forgot about the synergy from budding seeds which tacks on even MORE healing. Which if youre using the twilight remedy set will also proc THAT set when they use it stacking even MORE healing. Wardens as I said have ridiculous healing numbers)

2. Better alternatives - For any healer, the go to ultimate is going to be agressive war horn. It provides a clear offensive boost via the major force. It also provides damage boost by increasing max magika/stamina, as well as a survival boost by increasing max health. All this makes it the #1 clear best choice in most vet content. If you thought people mowed through content before, this makes it even faster. Then there is the Northern Storm ultimate that warden has access to. Yes it costs 200, but youll find that getting to that amount is really not as difficult as you progress. This ultimate is just ridiculously good for protection. A whopping 30% damage mitigation! This means you take less damage, which means you have to heal less, which means a higher chance of over-healing and procing SPC. It also may give you some breathing room to re apply buffs or just recover some magika and take a small breather. Then there is the secondary benefits this ultimate has (which is why I recommend slotting it on your healing bar). Namely, just for having it slotted you get an awesome 8% extra magika! This means more spellpower, which means BIGGER heals, and a bigger magika pool, which means MORE heals! Whats not to like about that?! Then there is the fact that it activates the skill tree passives, increasing your physical and spell resistances just for being slotted (you cant heal if youre dead!) as well as increasing your magika damage (for the small amount we do but its still a boost).

coolertin100b14_ESO

Dakmor_Kavu wrote: »

coolertin100b14_ESO wrote: »

Tremendously late, but starting my new Healer Warden I'd have to heavily agree with the last fellow. Oh *** just realized he is the build guy. At any rate, the only thing that'd kind of dispute is why you said the warden couldnt take permafrost. Currently running Northern Storm, as I am a bozo who has been too lazy to make magicka glyphs, and in terms of usefulness i havent seen any. Granted i generally avoid vet content, but even when i did the high ulti cost made it substantially harder to find a time to use. Any time the mitigation might have been needed, throwing down trees seemed to be more effective. I am also using the morph that heals after leaving. My groupmates killed the adds fast enough since trees ontop of the usual aoe heals is kind of overkill. I guess my point/question would be is this immensely stupid in most vet and i just got lucky, or does it make sense?
Quick edit as i didnt mention, running Northern Storm on heal bar and Trees on desto bar. Mostly for passive but nice having the panic heal on that bar as well.

Trees are generally passed over in vet content. I personally will use it when I want to "lazy heal" and know my group can just waltz through content, but with unknown groups I tend to skip over it. For me there are 2 real reasons for this:

1. The extra healing generally isnt needed - Wardens in particular output a disgusting amount of raw healing power (I would vehemently argue its more than a templar having played both). Between healing springs, combat prayer, mutagen, fungal growth, leeching vines, and budding seeds, there really is a lot of health being thrown around by a warden. While it is cheap in cost, it just isnt (or shouldnt be) needed very often if at all. With all the other skills you have, there should be plenty of ways to keep your allies up. Even if a big sustained burst is coming in from a boss, make sure you have mutagen up for heals over time, drop down a healing springs and budding seeds, and cover any spikes with either combat prayer, fungal growth, or instant popping budding seeds. This should get you through basically every encounter, but if you need more protection there are some good options (see point 2).

Edit: I also forgot about the synergy from budding seeds which tacks on even MORE healing. Which if youre using the twilight remedy set will also proc THAT set when they use it stacking even MORE healing. Wardens as I said have ridiculous healing numbers)

2. Better alternatives - For any healer, the go to ultimate is going to be agressive war horn. It provides a clear offensive boost via the major force. It also provides damage boost by increasing max magika/stamina, as well as a survival boost by increasing max health. All this makes it the #1 clear best choice in most vet content. If you thought people mowed through content before, this makes it even faster. Then there is the Northern Storm ultimate that warden has access to. Yes it costs 200, but youll find that getting to that amount is really not as difficult as you progress. This ultimate is just ridiculously good for protection. A whopping 30% damage mitigation! This means you take less damage, which means you have to heal less, which means a higher chance of over-healing and procing SPC. It also may give you some breathing room to re apply buffs or just recover some magika and take a small breather. Then there is the secondary benefits this ultimate has (which is why I recommend slotting it on your healing bar). Namely, just for having it slotted you get an awesome 8% extra magika! This means more spellpower, which means BIGGER heals, and a bigger magika pool, which means MORE heals! Whats not to like about that?! Then there is the fact that it activates the skill tree passives, increasing your physical and spell resistances just for being slotted (you cant heal if youre dead!) as well as increasing your magika damage (for the small amount we do but its still a boost).

Alright, I kind of assumed it would be outclassed by some other ult but didn't see it myself.Looking at warhorn now it 100% makes sense how that would outshine, because as you said in the little vet content I played it was just an easy overheal, and it seemed like without the proper sets even (running juli and willpower only) with an unrefined mish mash of skills that I was overhealing in pretty much every scenario. Thanks so much for the help!