Magsorc theorycrafting help.. surviving without shields..

Derra

kaithuzar wrote: »

I'm just gonna throw this out there.
https://youtu.be/EiSHfGiQFkM

One thing you gotta give to wrobel:

The mobile classes for cyrodiil are now bottom tier for straight up fighting.
Magsorc basically won´t kill good players (especially those not tanking out attro) and stamblade in medium is too squishy to survive long enough to score a kill.

Anything heavyarmor reigns supreme while stamblade + magsorc go at each others throat bc they´re the only matchup happening open world - not realizing they´re the dogs fighting for a bone under the table.

Passifest

HiImRex wrote: »

step 1: roll a mag class
step 2: put bloodspawn & sword and board, 5 heavy armor
step 3: slot a cheap defensive ulti on back bar
step 4: pretend you're not garbage when you 4v2 people down by spamming resto and enchanted forest nonstop
step 5: get embarrassed 3v4 and run to a CP campaign where you can block longer

yw

https://youtu.be/8oBun4pFb_s?t=413

Last part of my video clearly demonstrates your five steps, I have several such encounters recorded that I can upload if more learning material is needed.

raasdal

Solariken wrote: »

Prisoner's + Coward's makes a REALLY fun guerilla Sorc. Ball of Lightning (projectile immunity) + Forward Momentum (snare immunity) + Hurricane (Minor Expedition + resists).

You can run the Apprentice with 3x spell damage glyphs. Impen can be minimal and you can use damage-centric traits since you have a high uptime on Major Protection and can avoid tons of damage.

You can combo with Curse, Fury, Frag, DBoS, then gtfo until DBoS is ready again.

It's the best non-meta build out there because if you get cornered by a meta-tard you just run away and hit them again from another angle! Ha!

@Solariken - This is actually not a bad idea at all. I have tried Prisoners on my wardless / no-shields magsorc, but used it just as a backbar SnB set. Comboing it with Cowards however, makes it into something even more niche, as you describe yourself.

I am gonna try this out.

Minno

raasdal wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Prisoner's + Coward's makes a REALLY fun guerilla Sorc. Ball of Lightning (projectile immunity) + Forward Momentum (snare immunity) + Hurricane (Minor Expedition + resists).

You can run the Apprentice with 3x spell damage glyphs. Impen can be minimal and you can use damage-centric traits since you have a high uptime on Major Protection and can avoid tons of damage.

You can combo with Curse, Fury, Frag, DBoS, then gtfo until DBoS is ready again.

It's the best non-meta build out there because if you get cornered by a meta-tard you just run away and hit them again from another angle! Ha!

@Solariken - This is actually not a bad idea at all. I have tried Prisoners on my wardless / no-shields magsorc, but used it just as a backbar SnB set. Comboing it with Cowards however, makes it into something even more niche, as you describe yourself.

I am gonna try this out.

About time everyone joined the prisoner revolution! Such a fun set for mag Regen.

Solariken

raasdal wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Prisoner's + Coward's makes a REALLY fun guerilla Sorc. Ball of Lightning (projectile immunity) + Forward Momentum (snare immunity) + Hurricane (Minor Expedition + resists).

You can run the Apprentice with 3x spell damage glyphs. Impen can be minimal and you can use damage-centric traits since you have a high uptime on Major Protection and can avoid tons of damage.

You can combo with Curse, Fury, Frag, DBoS, then gtfo until DBoS is ready again.

It's the best non-meta build out there because if you get cornered by a meta-tard you just run away and hit them again from another angle! Ha!

@Solariken - This is actually not a bad idea at all. I have tried Prisoners on my wardless / no-shields magsorc, but used it just as a backbar SnB set. Comboing it with Cowards however, makes it into something even more niche, as you describe yourself.

I am gonna try this out.

Cool! It takes some practice but I'm sure you'll love it. You have a ton of build flexibility with this loadout but just make sure you end up with 5 light. I like these extras but they are personal preference:

1pc heavy Domihaus for the dual stat boost and max Undaunted.

Argonian

All Hakeijos

I also think I like the Mage more than Apprentice because I found it helpful to have a little extra gas in the tank.

Irylia

Sylphie wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Sylphie wrote: »

HiImRex wrote: »

step 1: roll a mag class
step 2: put bloodspawn & sword and board, 5 heavy armor
step 3: slot a cheap defensive ulti on back bar
step 4: pretend you're not garbage when you 4v2 people down by spamming resto and enchanted forest nonstop
step 5: get embarrassed 3v4 and run to a CP campaign where you can block longer

yw

Judging by the description and who you are, I'm guessing this is a shot at my group. If it is, you're free to whisper me whatever hate you have for us but don't try to derail a thread just to start some forum drama.

Did you finally jump ship off the sinking DK train and move over to Stam warden?

Made one like 2 weeks ago on AD but I don't have any friends to play with lol. I really like the class though, feels so much better than stamdk.

I think the warden he is talking about refers to Passifest/Banthor although he definitely doesn't wear 5 heavy nor are steps 4/5 accurately describing what happened. If I'm right in my assumptions, he's free to PM me ingame and we can talk it out like civilised people, if I'm wrong then I apologise for derailing this thread even further.

The b squad?

raasdal

Solariken wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Prisoner's + Coward's makes a REALLY fun guerilla Sorc. Ball of Lightning (projectile immunity) + Forward Momentum (snare immunity) + Hurricane (Minor Expedition + resists).

You can run the Apprentice with 3x spell damage glyphs. Impen can be minimal and you can use damage-centric traits since you have a high uptime on Major Protection and can avoid tons of damage.

You can combo with Curse, Fury, Frag, DBoS, then gtfo until DBoS is ready again.

It's the best non-meta build out there because if you get cornered by a meta-tard you just run away and hit them again from another angle! Ha!

@Solariken - This is actually not a bad idea at all. I have tried Prisoners on my wardless / no-shields magsorc, but used it just as a backbar SnB set. Comboing it with Cowards however, makes it into something even more niche, as you describe yourself.

I am gonna try this out.

Cool! It takes some practice but I'm sure you'll love it. You have a ton of build flexibility with this loadout but just make sure you end up with 5 light. I like these extras but they are personal preference:

1pc heavy Domihaus for the dual stat boost and max Undaunted.

Argonian

All Hakeijos

I also think I like the Mage more than Apprentice because I found it helpful to have a little extra gas in the tank.

I am always full Hakeijos. I can find no single argument, besides from the cost, that outweighs the fact that you net gain 2k+ resources, by sacrificing same amount of magicka / stamina. (you get half value of your main resource, to gain the same on both health and off-resource). Only shieldstackers should ever use one-stat enchants, imo.

Only problem i am foreseeing with this build is; It would be better switch out position of Medium (Coward) and Prisoner (Light), to get 5 medium, and go Stam. But throwing around curses, frags and lightning bolts, while sprinting and dodgerolling like a mad-man sounds like more fun though...

Biro123

raasdal wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Prisoner's + Coward's makes a REALLY fun guerilla Sorc. Ball of Lightning (projectile immunity) + Forward Momentum (snare immunity) + Hurricane (Minor Expedition + resists).

You can run the Apprentice with 3x spell damage glyphs. Impen can be minimal and you can use damage-centric traits since you have a high uptime on Major Protection and can avoid tons of damage.

You can combo with Curse, Fury, Frag, DBoS, then gtfo until DBoS is ready again.

It's the best non-meta build out there because if you get cornered by a meta-tard you just run away and hit them again from another angle! Ha!

@Solariken - This is actually not a bad idea at all. I have tried Prisoners on my wardless / no-shields magsorc, but used it just as a backbar SnB set. Comboing it with Cowards however, makes it into something even more niche, as you describe yourself.

I am gonna try this out.

Cool! It takes some practice but I'm sure you'll love it. You have a ton of build flexibility with this loadout but just make sure you end up with 5 light. I like these extras but they are personal preference:

1pc heavy Domihaus for the dual stat boost and max Undaunted.

Argonian

All Hakeijos

I also think I like the Mage more than Apprentice because I found it helpful to have a little extra gas in the tank.

I am always full Hakeijos. I can find no single argument, besides from the cost, that outweighs the fact that you net gain 2k+ resources, by sacrificing same amount of magicka / stamina. (you get half value of your main resource, to gain the same on both health and off-resource). Only shieldstackers should ever use one-stat enchants, imo.

Only problem i am foreseeing with this build is; It would be better switch out position of Medium (Coward) and Prisoner (Light), to get 5 medium, and go Stam. But throwing around curses, frags and lightning bolts, while sprinting and dodgerolling like a mad-man sounds like more fun though...

How's your max mag/spell dmg on that setup?

ak_pvp

I say try focus for range and movement, In my admittedly short time on sorcs, staying away and

Derra wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

I'm just gonna throw this out there.
https://youtu.be/EiSHfGiQFkM

One thing you gotta give to wrobel:

The mobile classes for cyrodiil are now bottom tier for straight up fighting.
Magsorc basically won´t kill good players (especially those not tanking out attro) and stamblade in medium is too squishy to survive long enough to score a kill.

Anything heavyarmor reigns supreme while stamblade + magsorc go at each others throat bc they´re the only matchup happening open world - not realizing they´re the dogs fighting for a bone under the table.

Derra wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

I'm just gonna throw this out there.
https://youtu.be/EiSHfGiQFkM

One thing you gotta give to wrobel:

The mobile classes for cyrodiil are now bottom tier for straight up fighting.
Magsorc basically won´t kill good players (especially those not tanking out attro) and stamblade in medium is too squishy to survive long enough to score a kill.

Anything heavyarmor reigns supreme while stamblade + magsorc go at each others throat bc they´re the only matchup happening open world - not realizing they´re the dogs fighting for a bone under the table.

That isn't true.

A magsorc is definitely one of the the best for a solid fight, along with warden and stamDKs. These classes can minmax tankiness whilst keeping damage. (i.e. Blockcast and 7th/fury) The problem is damage going down. (Sustain/proc changes) So TTK has gone up massively, making tanks tankier.

Heavy armour isn't even as strong as it used to be. For the first time since godly desert rose I have switched to light. Sustain in heavy is harder, constitution being lowered a lot and other morrowind changes means focusing more in sustain is needed, and damage is lower unless you use something like seventh/fury.

The other classes are how it should be. Sacrifice something. But I agree stamblade and a few others has taken a bit too hard of a hit, since as a bursty class they have lost lots of damage, high damage effectively being their survivability, since cloak/dodge has been decimated.

Irylia

Could try 2h onslaught boundless bs for upping resistances. Heavy alchemist willpower
Atro/serpent
Run pen in cp tree

Surge. Mutagen. Resto ult
Unless you destro 2h
Double bar frag if resto 2h

Tbs impreg full divines and heavy or light is also an option. Prob heavy for more hp and resistances. Vma destro sharp & Pen in cp (if heavy) nirn if light. If no vma use crafted staves and 1x monster
If light armor 3x tri glyphs

Choice of mundus but serpent/atro and apprentice

Innerlight front for more crit
Resto ult dark conv. Shuffle. Boundless. Mutagen. Streak.

Overload frag shock curse innerlight fury
Or db/atro for pressure relieve

Mines rune prison purge 'skills'

I'd suggest 1 regen glyph if sustain is hard. Light for damage
Put points into heal received
Get unbroken (or whatever it is that makes a Stam skill cost less after break free) from cp hardy elem def tree

Amp elfborn so your crits heal for more

Prefer bs to fit in for more resto ults but oh well

Just some rough ideas off the top of my head.

Derra

ak_pvp wrote: »

That isn't true.

A magsorc is definitely one of the the best for a solid fight, along with warden and stamDKs. These classes can minmax tankiness whilst keeping damage. (i.e. Blockcast and 7th/fury) The problem is damage going down. (Sustain/proc changes) So TTK has gone up massively, making tanks tankier.

Heavy armour isn't even as strong as it used to be. For the first time since godly desert rose I have switched to light. Sustain in heavy is harder, constitution being lowered a lot and other morrowind changes means focusing more in sustain is needed, and damage is lower unless you use something like seventh/fury.

The other classes are how it should be. Sacrifice something. But I agree stamblade and a few others has taken a bit too hard of a hit, since as a bursty class they have lost lots of damage, high damage effectively being their survivability, since cloak/dodge has been decimated.

I don´t think magsorc is anywhere near the performance magplar, warden, magblade or even magDK can achieve.

If i fight a sorc the worst outcome is usually a draw (unless going for the top sorcs against which i play at somewhat of a disatvantage by slotting neither harness nor dark conversion).
Same goes for StamDK - in what way are they still gaining tankiness while maxing for dmg? I think they´re probably one of the worst classes currently with nothing really going for them - they can´t even dream of putting their pve dps advantages into practice in pvp.

Magsorc generally should only be a problem for low HP builds. If magsorc burst can put you into execute range - i agree magsorc is somewhat dangerous. If they can´t and you have the means to heal in their 4s bursttimings (or are able to counter their burst with purge, reflect, absorb or block) i consider them the least threatening class of all.

Biro123

Derra wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

That isn't true.

A magsorc is definitely one of the the best for a solid fight, along with warden and stamDKs. These classes can minmax tankiness whilst keeping damage. (i.e. Blockcast and 7th/fury) The problem is damage going down. (Sustain/proc changes) So TTK has gone up massively, making tanks tankier.

Heavy armour isn't even as strong as it used to be. For the first time since godly desert rose I have switched to light. Sustain in heavy is harder, constitution being lowered a lot and other morrowind changes means focusing more in sustain is needed, and damage is lower unless you use something like seventh/fury.

The other classes are how it should be. Sacrifice something. But I agree stamblade and a few others has taken a bit too hard of a hit, since as a bursty class they have lost lots of damage, high damage effectively being their survivability, since cloak/dodge has been decimated.

I don´t think magsorc is anywhere near the performance magplar, warden, magblade or even magDK can achieve.

If i fight a sorc the worst outcome is usually a draw (unless going for the top sorcs against which i play at somewhat of a disatvantage by slotting neither harness nor dark conversion).
Same goes for StamDK - in what way are they still gaining tankiness while maxing for dmg? I think they´re probably one of the worst classes currently with nothing really going for them - they can´t even dream of putting their pve dps advantages into practice in pvp.

Magsorc generally should only be a problem for low HP builds. If magsorc burst can put you into execute range - i agree magsorc is somewhat dangerous. If they can´t and you have the means to heal in their 4s bursttimings (or are able to counter their burst with purge, reflect, absorb or block) i consider them the least threatening class of all.

There are definitely classes that are better at dealing with sorcs than others. It does seem to me that looking at the forum, most who have problems with sorcs are NB's. And I to tend to see them as the easiest targets in PVP.. As a flip-side, while still levelling my stamplar (about lvl40), I had a 1v1 with one of the good sorcs in Vivec. I had green/blue/purp gear, some of it underlevelled. I didn't have access to some of the 'money' skills yet (rally, dawnbreaker, spell-wall) - so I couldn't beat him. But neither could he beat me(without rally, note). It was so easy to counter..
curse.. Purge..
frag.. Block..
crushing shock.. vigour + small hots from purge etc. along with the odd block.

My only problem was resources because my build wasn't a complete build - so had to LoS every now and then just for a bit of recov ticks.. I wan't really running a tanky build either.. Hundings heavy + a sustain set - and I'm not particularly good at playing stam either..

In the end he gave up and went away.. It was a resource around our keep - and it was only a matter of time till more defenders turned up.

I was surprised at how easy it was to counter him.

I think sometimes a lot of the most rabid sorc-op calls come from those playing the classes least equipped to deal with them, forgetting that there are other classes that are much, much more capable of handling them.

AverageJo3Gam3r

I didn't read every post in the thread so might have missed something, but my guess is you could do something like 5 trans (use back bar resto to complete 5pc) and 5 wizards riposte (use front bar to complete 5pc). This will give you plenty of tankiness, then use a damage monster set.

Xvorg

Biro123 wrote: »

Would love to figure out a light, s+b build.. but where could the heals come from? The only choices I can see are dark-deal and surge, which I don't think would cut it.. Perhaps a heal-proccing monster-set instead of bloodspawn..?

Absorb magic could be a heal though not on demand.

By the way, my S/B magsorc is running 5 warmaiden + 5 Vamp cloak. In groups is nice, 1v1 is crap.