Removal of classes, or multi class, would it work?

Merkabeh

MasterSpatula wrote: »

This horse is far, far outside of the barn.

Guess we might as well beat it then...

Wifeaggro13

tunepunk wrote: »

When I play my different alts, I often feel very restricted in ways I can make my builds. For example, When i play my magplar dps i dont even use any skills at all in the restoring light category, but i would love to mix in some skills from other classes. It would be interesting if you at character creation, instead of chosing a class you could choose 3 skill trees, from the different classes for example.

1. Aedric Spear (templar)
2. Storm Calling (Sorc)
3. Assasination (Nightblade)

.... or any other skill tree combination you can think of.

You could make very interesting builds if you were not restricted to the traditional classes. If skill trees were individually balanced so that combined passives etc from different trees would not overperform.

You could make very effective specialits like tanks, healers, dps but it would also open up for more experimental builds, And no one could ever complain again this class is not blanced. It would be individual skills and skill lines that would need to be balanced, not classes per say.

Anyone else think that would be fun to try?

Short answer no, the game is already a mess. and for the sake of actuall roles in this game they already dont exist the design is so flawed that Devs put no effort into making the content require anything other then dps. so if your just looking for builds that PVP well then i could see why you want this. from a PVE stand point it would just end up in another DPS meta instead of having 4 different builds you would have just one that everyone was using.

Derra

Juhasow wrote: »

tunepunk wrote: »

CreamedPieYum wrote: »

generalmyrick wrote: »

who wouldn't pick the shadow skill line?

I can see it now..Everyone in Cyrodiil using the stealth line and it will be a huge three-way gankfest because all players will want to be invisible/stealthed waiting for the right moment.

So why isn't everyone playing nightblade now then? Not everyone wanna play stealth u know.

Because Nb dont have shields , purges , burst heals , tankiness etc
And every player would have acces to that + stealth without classes.

Ballance = limitations

Playing my own NB for the last month my killcounter stats for cyro were along the lines of 39% nbs, 23% sorcs, ~15% DK/templar rest warden.
We´ll eventually get to half of the playerbase playing nb

red_emu

No. All of Cyrodiil would end up full of invisible players.

Tandor

EnglishTea123 wrote: »

LMAO when I first heard ESO was being worked on, I thought it'd be like what OP is now suggesting. Instead, we are given classes to choose from, which I still think was a major mistake game devs made, but whatever. I personally think the game would be much better without a set class still, like in Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim. Basically like every other ES game series.

You mean you want this MMORPG to be like all the single player CRPGs in the series. Those don't have competitive play, which makes all the difference when designing ESO.

joaaocaampos

NO! "META builds" is the problem! SO NO!

DeHei

joaaocaampos wrote: »

NO! "META builds" is the problem! SO NO!

Good joke

This "META" builds you will allways have in every Onlinegame!
There will be allways some guys, who make theorycrafting and show how they can get the maximum of everything.

DeHei

Derra wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

tunepunk wrote: »

CreamedPieYum wrote: »

generalmyrick wrote: »

who wouldn't pick the shadow skill line?

I can see it now..Everyone in Cyrodiil using the stealth line and it will be a huge three-way gankfest because all players will want to be invisible/stealthed waiting for the right moment.

So why isn't everyone playing nightblade now then? Not everyone wanna play stealth u know.

Because Nb dont have shields , purges , burst heals , tankiness etc
And every player would have acces to that + stealth without classes.

Ballance = limitations

Playing my own NB for the last month my killcounter stats for cyro were along the lines of 39% nbs, 23% sorcs, ~15% DK/templar rest warden.
We´ll eventually get to half of the playerbase playing nb

Real percent, which classes you have battled at cyrodiil would be 40% nbs (they can run in cloak, but most of them will die finally), 30-40% sorcs (good ones will kite you until you stop to follow them... and shieldstacking dont gave you a kill )
15-24% DK & Templar (They fight allways with much survivalbility, but are allways targets for a killcount..) and 1-10% Warden.

Derra

DeHei wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

tunepunk wrote: »

CreamedPieYum wrote: »

generalmyrick wrote: »

who wouldn't pick the shadow skill line?

I can see it now..Everyone in Cyrodiil using the stealth line and it will be a huge three-way gankfest because all players will want to be invisible/stealthed waiting for the right moment.

So why isn't everyone playing nightblade now then? Not everyone wanna play stealth u know.

Because Nb dont have shields , purges , burst heals , tankiness etc
And every player would have acces to that + stealth without classes.

Ballance = limitations

Playing my own NB for the last month my killcounter stats for cyro were along the lines of 39% nbs, 23% sorcs, ~15% DK/templar rest warden.
We´ll eventually get to half of the playerbase playing nb

Real percent, which classes you have battled at cyrodiil would be 40% nbs (they can run in cloak, but most of them will die finally), 30-40% sorcs (good ones will kite you until you stop to follow them... and shieldstacking dont gave you a kill )
15-24% DK & Templar (They fight allways with much survivalbility, but are allways targets for a killcount..) and 1-10% Warden.

I don´t think i´ve met a sorc that ran from a 1v1 in cyro so far.
Unless it´s one of those absolute potatoes - but those die either way

Wifeaggro13

DeHei wrote: »

joaaocaampos wrote: »

NO! "META builds" is the problem! SO NO!

Good joke

This "META" builds you will allways have in every Onlinegame!
There will be allways some guys, who make theorycrafting and show how they can get the maximum of everything.

Ues but instead of a meta for individual classes. You will have one meta that everyone uses. Lets not talk freedom from class bondage to being shackled to an even smaller playstyle.

MLGProPlayer

It would kill any semblance of diversity.

Everyone would use the exact same build.

Alaztor91

Assuming that they do this, maybe ZoS could add some sort of ''restrictions'' to it(these are just examples):

- All 3 core class skill trees are balanced when used together and each one is assigned a category, for example dark magic would be X, daedric summoning would be Y and storm calling would be Z

- You would be able to mix the different trees from the multiple classes but you can only make X,Y,Z combinations

This probably defeats the purpose of it but ZoS would have to balance it somehow, or do something like making class skill trees more like weapon,guild skill lines(and balancing them accordingly) or something like that.

altemriel

CreamedPieYum wrote: »

generalmyrick wrote: »

who wouldn't pick the shadow skill line?

I can see it now..Everyone in Cyrodiil using the stealth line and it will be a huge three-way gankfest because all players will want to be invisible/stealthed waiting for the right moment.

no no, that would be a stealthy zerg. nice. ganked by 100 players from stealth in a second, lol.

FakeFox

More freedom -> less diversity

That's how MMO class balance works. For ESO in particular it would mean that everyone being somewhat competitive would run the same build or at least a far smaller selection of builds then now.

ArchMikem

If you could choose any three of ALL skill trees in all classes, people would find out which skill trees had the BEST abilities, and then stack them so their characters would be nigh unstoppable. The potential builds would be insane and the PvP complaints would be through the roof.

Magdalina

It would be impossible to balance. Hell they cannot balance even current state of things, do you really want to see them try to balance basically...4 classes, 3 trees...12 skilltrees to choose from, 3 skilltrees you can choose...unless I mix up my formulas, that's 220 possible combinations. That sounds op great and diverse on paper - until you remember this is a MMO and it has a competitive edge to it. By that I don't mean that most important feature of the game is the leaderboards but rather that people's performance does matter and it will be compared against one another, be it in a PvE group activity or, better yet, PvP(as opposed to single player where sure you can be better or worse but like, who cares). There's no way in hell ZOS could balance all the possible combinations, they'd have to basically rework every single skill from scratch.

Current system is far from balance but at least it has some restrictions to it. Templars have great healing, purging etc but generally lack mobility. DKs have great tankiness and(or) damage but gotta be melee range to do anything. NBs can become invisible but they lack tankiness. Sorcs have great mobility and defence but lack burst heals. Sure there're ways around and perfect balance is not achieveable but at least every class somewhat has pros and cons. Without that? Behold the streaking, cloaking, bol-spamming super hybrid.

There would be maybe 3 builds in Cyrodiil to rule them all(effectively locking Cyrodiil completely from new players - didn't choose the 3 right skilltrees at char creation? Well too bad. Reroll or die) and 3-4 builds in PvE, 1 for each role plus mag/stam dps, this is it. The only place "diversity" would exist would be soloing open world, for which yes you could pick any combo of shiny skills you like - at the price of sacrificing ever possibly being competitive or even viable for group content or PvP. Would you really want to pay that price?

DeHei

You guys understood it wrong!
They would only need to balance the skills/trees, but not the classes anymore. This mean make every skills useful, but also make every tree similar useful with passives!
This mean too, that we allready have a balance, when everybody can pick prefered trees. For sure, everybody just need to have the SUPER DD, SUPER TANK, SUPER HEALER for PvE and SUPER HYBRID for PvP.

Its maybe difficult to understand for some... but again: Because of the option to choose your prefered skilllines AND everybody could do that, we would have balance! You dont need to discuss that, because its a simple logic

Magdalina

DeHei wrote: »

You guys understood it wrong!
They would only need to balance the skills/trees, but not the classes anymore. This mean make every skills useful, but also make every tree similar useful with passives!
This mean too, that we allready have a balance, when everybody can pick prefered trees. For sure, everybody just need to have the SUPER DD, SUPER TANK, SUPER HEALER for PvE and SUPER HYBRID for PvP.

Its maybe difficult to understand for some... but again: Because of the option to choose your prefered skilllines AND everybody could do that, we would have balance! You dont need to discuss that, because its a simple logic

Um yeah...they'd only need to balance 220 possible skill trees combinations...that sounds much easier than balancing 4 for sure.

DeHei

Magdalina wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

You guys understood it wrong!
They would only need to balance the skills/trees, but not the classes anymore. This mean make every skills useful, but also make every tree similar useful with passives!
This mean too, that we allready have a balance, when everybody can pick prefered trees. For sure, everybody just need to have the SUPER DD, SUPER TANK, SUPER HEALER for PvE and SUPER HYBRID for PvP.

Its maybe difficult to understand for some... but again: Because of the option to choose your prefered skilllines AND everybody could do that, we would have balance! You dont need to discuss that, because its a simple logic

Um yeah...they'd only need to balance 220 possible skill trees combinations...that sounds much easier than balancing 4 for sure.

Making skills and trees similar useful isnt something great. When you give every active and passive skill 1 point for every effect they give and just give these trees a maximum pointscore from around 30 points, then you only need to give all other trees same pointscore! With skills the same, some skills give 3-4 effects and other just 1-2 (no wonder why nobody wants to use them...). Its just a bit math to balance here now...

Magdalina

DeHei wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

You guys understood it wrong!
They would only need to balance the skills/trees, but not the classes anymore. This mean make every skills useful, but also make every tree similar useful with passives!
This mean too, that we allready have a balance, when everybody can pick prefered trees. For sure, everybody just need to have the SUPER DD, SUPER TANK, SUPER HEALER for PvE and SUPER HYBRID for PvP.

Its maybe difficult to understand for some... but again: Because of the option to choose your prefered skilllines AND everybody could do that, we would have balance! You dont need to discuss that, because its a simple logic

Um yeah...they'd only need to balance 220 possible skill trees combinations...that sounds much easier than balancing 4 for sure.

Making skills and trees similar useful isnt something great. When you give every active and passive skill 1 point for every effect they give and just give these trees a maximum pointscore from around 30 points, then you only need to give all other trees same pointscore! With skills the same, some skills give 3-4 effects and other just 1-2 (no wonder why nobody wants to use them...). Its just a bit math to balance here now...

....I honestly don't understand what you just said. I mean I understand the words but they make no sense whatsoever.

Bouldercleave

tunepunk wrote: »

When I play my different alts, I often feel very restricted in ways I can make my builds. For example, When i play my magplar dps i dont even use any skills at all in the restoring light category, but i would love to mix in some skills from other classes. It would be interesting if you at character creation, instead of chosing a class you could choose 3 skill trees, from the different classes for example.

1. Aedric Spear (templar)
2. Storm Calling (Sorc)
3. Assasination (Nightblade)

.... or any other skill tree combination you can think of.

You could make very interesting builds if you were not restricted to the traditional classes. If skill trees were individually balanced so that combined passives etc from different trees would not overperform.

You could make very effective specialits like tanks, healers, dps but it would also open up for more experimental builds, And no one could ever complain again this class is not blanced. It would be individual skills and skill lines that would need to be balanced, not classes per say.

Anyone else think that would be fun to try?

THAT'S the problem though. The ENTIRE player base would choose those same three skill lines. Diversity - gone in a flash.