Shielded assault vs invasion? (Shield Charge Morph)

silver1surfer69

For pvp. I took invasion, but im thinking now. My experience is that in pvp i stun the opponent seldom, either they block or using potion or skill , i dont know. In addition i think when u use break free you can shorten the stun as well when being hit, right? On the other hand, that small dmg shield means that the next attack against you is garanteed to be non crit. What do you think, what is better for pvp (more duels and BG but also big group play)?

silver1surfer69

with skill i mean ability like heavy armor ability.

paulsimonps

Personally I use Shielded assault for the damage shield, most people will break free so the extra stun isn't that needed. Its only good if you catch an opponent with low stam.

silver1surfer69

paulsimonps wrote: »

Personally I use Shielded assault for the damage shield, most people will break free so the extra stun isn't that needed. Its only good if you catch an opponent with low stam.

Thx for the answer and insight, im going to change that to assoult too.

Qbiken

A question: Does the morph that causes extra stun-time requires more stam to break free from?

paulsimonps

Qbiken wrote: »

A question: Does the morph that causes extra stun-time requires more stam to break free from?

No

silver1surfer69

Break free cost is a fixed value, depending on your lvl. "At Level 50 the cost of Break Free is 4,872 Stamina."

Qbiken wrote: »

A question: Does the morph that causes extra stun-time requires more stam to break free from?

Break free cost is a fixed value, depending on your lvl. "At Level 50 the cost of Break Free is 4,872 Stamina."

Qbiken

paulsimonps wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

A question: Does the morph that causes extra stun-time requires more stam to break free from?

No

Then I see no reason to not use the morph that gives you a shield.

paulsimonps

Qbiken wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

A question: Does the morph that causes extra stun-time requires more stam to break free from?

No

Then I see no reason to not use the morph that gives you a shield.

Yea, like I said, the extra stun only helps if you hit someone that has low enough stamina that they can't break free, that will not happen often at all. Shield>longer stun.

Kyye

Personally, I do not use the skill for the stun, only for gap closing. However, if you're running 2H, stampede or crit rush is a valid option. I personally use stampede for the snare, cause if I can close in on a pesky nightblade, that snare is gonna keep them from running off in cloak.

raasdal

You are all forgetting a couple of things;

1. The shield scales of your health. 24K health = 1500 Shield in PvP.
2. If shield is fully consumed, the damage can still Crit. And what will NOT consume a 1500 shield? A Light attack ?
3. Having almost two full seconds of extra free CC "play-time" with that Streaking MagSorc you just got out of Stam, will be the difference between killing him - or not.

Unless i can see a specific benefit / reason for choosing the Shielded Assault, when looking at my build / playstyle, my default choice will always be Invasion. It should be for anyone else as well.

Mojomonkeyman

raasdal wrote: »

You are all forgetting a couple of things;

1. The shield scales of your health. 24K health = 1500 Shield in PvP.
2. If shield is fully consumed, the damage can still Crit. And what will NOT consume a 1500 shield? A Light attack ?
3. Having almost two full seconds of extra free CC "play-time" with that Streaking MagSorc you just got out of Stam, will be the difference between killing him - or not.

Unless i can see a specific benefit / reason for choosing the Shielded Assault, when looking at my build / playstyle, my default choice will always be Invasion. It should be for anyone else as well.

You can clearly see in this thread who has experience in pvp and who hasn't. It's hilarious, good luck with shield assault, guys!

paulsimonps

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

You are all forgetting a couple of things;

1. The shield scales of your health. 24K health = 1500 Shield in PvP.
2. If shield is fully consumed, the damage can still Crit. And what will NOT consume a 1500 shield? A Light attack ?
3. Having almost two full seconds of extra free CC "play-time" with that Streaking MagSorc you just got out of Stam, will be the difference between killing him - or not.

Unless i can see a specific benefit / reason for choosing the Shielded Assault, when looking at my build / playstyle, my default choice will always be Invasion. It should be for anyone else as well.

You can clearly see in this thread who has experience in pvp and who hasn't. It's hilarious, good luck with shield assault, guys!

Good luck with your extra stun that almost never happens cause people break free. You can clearly see who is sitting on a high horse in this thread. Both are valid options and both have situations where it helps, we that chose the shield just don't put as much value on the extra stun since 9 times out of 10 people will break free long before that anyway.

raasdal wrote: »

You are all forgetting a couple of things;

1. The shield scales of your health. 24K health = 1500 Shield in PvP.
2. If shield is fully consumed, the damage can still Crit. And what will NOT consume a 1500 shield? A Light attack ?
3. Having almost two full seconds of extra free CC "play-time" with that Streaking MagSorc you just got out of Stam, will be the difference between killing him - or not.

Unless i can see a specific benefit / reason for choosing the Shielded Assault, when looking at my build / playstyle, my default choice will always be Invasion. It should be for anyone else as well.

Doesn't matter, you can get a crit on you without a shield too you know, so at least the shield will save you some HP, its something, not to be discredited off hand. Small shield is better than no shield.

silver1surfer69

raasdal wrote: »

You are all forgetting a couple of things;

1. The shield scales of your health. 24K health = 1500 Shield in PvP.
2. If shield is fully consumed, the damage can still Crit. And what will NOT consume a 1500 shield? A Light attack ?
3. Having almost two full seconds of extra free CC "play-time" with that Streaking MagSorc you just got out of Stam, will be the difference between killing him - or not.

Unless i can see a specific benefit / reason for choosing the Shielded Assault, when looking at my build / playstyle, my default choice will always be Invasion. It should be for anyone else as well.

Thx for your answer. Are you playing with invasion? My experience is that the stun almost never happens in pvp. Like paulsimonps said. It feels like less then 9 out of 10. Do you different experience? Invasion will be my pick now for pve.

And for the dmg shields and the DKs out there: I dont know how many of you check their fight logs, but in mine igneous shield consumes soo much dmg! Dmg shields make a bit difference.

raasdal

paulsimonps wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

You are all forgetting a couple of things;

1. The shield scales of your health. 24K health = 1500 Shield in PvP.
2. If shield is fully consumed, the damage can still Crit. And what will NOT consume a 1500 shield? A Light attack ?
3. Having almost two full seconds of extra free CC "play-time" with that Streaking MagSorc you just got out of Stam, will be the difference between killing him - or not.

Unless i can see a specific benefit / reason for choosing the Shielded Assault, when looking at my build / playstyle, my default choice will always be Invasion. It should be for anyone else as well.

You can clearly see in this thread who has experience in pvp and who hasn't. It's hilarious, good luck with shield assault, guys!

Good luck with your extra stun that almost never happens cause people break free. You can clearly see who is sitting on a high horse in this thread. Both are valid options and both have situations where it helps, we that chose the shield just don't put as much value on the extra stun since 9 times out of 10 people will break free long before that anyway.

raasdal wrote: »

You are all forgetting a couple of things;

1. The shield scales of your health. 24K health = 1500 Shield in PvP.
2. If shield is fully consumed, the damage can still Crit. And what will NOT consume a 1500 shield? A Light attack ?
3. Having almost two full seconds of extra free CC "play-time" with that Streaking MagSorc you just got out of Stam, will be the difference between killing him - or not.

Unless i can see a specific benefit / reason for choosing the Shielded Assault, when looking at my build / playstyle, my default choice will always be Invasion. It should be for anyone else as well.

Doesn't matter, you can get a crit on you without a shield too you know, so at least the shield will save you some HP, its something, not to be discredited off hand. Small shield is better than no shield.

I mentioned Crit, because someone used that as an argument for choosing Shielded Assault (think it was the OP). I am just countering that argument.

For the other part, see below.

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

You are all forgetting a couple of things;

1. The shield scales of your health. 24K health = 1500 Shield in PvP.
2. If shield is fully consumed, the damage can still Crit. And what will NOT consume a 1500 shield? A Light attack ?
3. Having almost two full seconds of extra free CC "play-time" with that Streaking MagSorc you just got out of Stam, will be the difference between killing him - or not.

Unless i can see a specific benefit / reason for choosing the Shielded Assault, when looking at my build / playstyle, my default choice will always be Invasion. It should be for anyone else as well.

Thx for your answer. Are you playing with invasion? My experience is that the stun almost never happens in pvp. Like paulsimonps said. It feels like less then 9 out of 10. Do you different experience? Invasion will be my pick now for pve.

And for the dmg shields and the DKs out there: I dont know how many of you check their fight logs, but in mine igneous shield consumes soo much dmg! Dmg shields make a bit difference.

Actually, i am currently using Shielded Assault. But that is because my StamDK has 32K health, and is a specialized Health Regen Brawler. So i am stacking health-based shields from Shielded Assault, the 2H skill, and the two DK skills (Igneous and the Resistance one) for more than 10k shielding, while pummeling groups into submission.

So in that case, i have chosen Shielded Assault, because i want the shield. For any other build i have ever used, i have used Invasion.

For the "9 out of 10";

Yes. 9 out of 10 times, the extra stun will be useless, because opponent will CC break. But the exact same goes for the shield. 9 out of 10 times, the shield will either expire before you take damage, or it will have had no real impact on the fight.

What is important is that 1 out of 10 times, Invasion will get you the kill on that Sorcerer. The question is; Will the shield EVER have any real game impact for you ? And is it worth more to you, than the 1 out of 10 kills on the Sorc ? No one but yourself can really answer that.

But in my experience, the answer is, that the shield from Shield Assault will normally never ever have any real impact on your fight.

And just a sidenote; When i play my StamSorc in BG, using Invasion will very often get me the Stun. People run out of Stam all the time in NO CP Battlegrounds. Happens more than 1/10 IMO.

Mojomonkeyman

paulsimonps wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

You are all forgetting a couple of things;

1. The shield scales of your health. 24K health = 1500 Shield in PvP.
2. If shield is fully consumed, the damage can still Crit. And what will NOT consume a 1500 shield? A Light attack ?
3. Having almost two full seconds of extra free CC "play-time" with that Streaking MagSorc you just got out of Stam, will be the difference between killing him - or not.

Unless i can see a specific benefit / reason for choosing the Shielded Assault, when looking at my build / playstyle, my default choice will always be Invasion. It should be for anyone else as well.

You can clearly see in this thread who has experience in pvp and who hasn't. It's hilarious, good luck with shield assault, guys!

Good luck with your extra stun that almost never happens cause people break free. You can clearly see who is sitting on a high horse in this thread. Both are valid options and both have situations where it helps, we that chose the shield just don't put as much value on the extra stun since 9 times out of 10 people will break free long before that anyway.

raasdal wrote: »

You are all forgetting a couple of things;

1. The shield scales of your health. 24K health = 1500 Shield in PvP.
2. If shield is fully consumed, the damage can still Crit. And what will NOT consume a 1500 shield? A Light attack ?
3. Having almost two full seconds of extra free CC "play-time" with that Streaking MagSorc you just got out of Stam, will be the difference between killing him - or not.

Unless i can see a specific benefit / reason for choosing the Shielded Assault, when looking at my build / playstyle, my default choice will always be Invasion. It should be for anyone else as well.

Doesn't matter, you can get a crit on you without a shield too you know, so at least the shield will save you some HP, its something, not to be discredited off hand. Small shield is better than no shield.

It's not valid to chose the morph that can potentially harm you (unless you specifically build for it), no matter how often the other morphs benefit is applying or not.

You can feel offended all you want, all I'm saying is your theorycrafting doesnt make any sense to someone who has actual insights into how both morphs play out in pvp. Feel free to pretend its me whos sitting on a high horse, when I was merely pointing out that theres a lot of questionable advice given in this thread (including yours).

Lacking knowledge is fine, but lacking knowledge AND refusing to admit it while desperately trying to make your advice look reasonable is not.

BR

Drakkdjinn

I've tested both extensively, and by extensively I mean many months using each morph. The differences between the two are barely noticeable, the main difference is that invasion will occasionally result in a kill, whereas the shield will NEVER be strong enough to save you from anything cept maybe NPC light attacks at a lvl 5 keep; maybe.

Hence, the Drakk prefers Invasion. Ur welcome.

silver1surfer69

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

I've tested both extensively, and by extensively I mean many months using each morph. The differences between the two are barely noticeable, the main difference is that invasion will occasionally result in a kill, whereas the shield will NEVER be strong enough to save you from anything cept maybe NPC light attacks at a lvl 5 keep; maybe.

Hence, the Drakk prefers Invasion. Ur welcome.

Tested both for many months as well. In all the time with invasion (at least 3 months) i can count the times it stunned on 1 hand. In your and many others minds small dmg shields are not important. It sounds logik even for me when reading the numbers, but reality is the opposite. Install combat metrics add on and check your fight logs, what i do almost every time and you will see what a role dmg shields play in fights, mainly duels. Ur welcome as well

silver1surfer69

raasdal wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

You are all forgetting a couple of things;

1. The shield scales of your health. 24K health = 1500 Shield in PvP.
2. If shield is fully consumed, the damage can still Crit. And what will NOT consume a 1500 shield? A Light attack ?
3. Having almost two full seconds of extra free CC "play-time" with that Streaking MagSorc you just got out of Stam, will be the difference between killing him - or not.

Unless i can see a specific benefit / reason for choosing the Shielded Assault, when looking at my build / playstyle, my default choice will always be Invasion. It should be for anyone else as well.

You can clearly see in this thread who has experience in pvp and who hasn't. It's hilarious, good luck with shield assault, guys!

Good luck with your extra stun that almost never happens cause people break free. You can clearly see who is sitting on a high horse in this thread. Both are valid options and both have situations where it helps, we that chose the shield just don't put as much value on the extra stun since 9 times out of 10 people will break free long before that anyway.

raasdal wrote: »

You are all forgetting a couple of things;

1. The shield scales of your health. 24K health = 1500 Shield in PvP.
2. If shield is fully consumed, the damage can still Crit. And what will NOT consume a 1500 shield? A Light attack ?
3. Having almost two full seconds of extra free CC "play-time" with that Streaking MagSorc you just got out of Stam, will be the difference between killing him - or not.

Unless i can see a specific benefit / reason for choosing the Shielded Assault, when looking at my build / playstyle, my default choice will always be Invasion. It should be for anyone else as well.

Doesn't matter, you can get a crit on you without a shield too you know, so at least the shield will save you some HP, its something, not to be discredited off hand. Small shield is better than no shield.

I mentioned Crit, because someone used that as an argument for choosing Shielded Assault (think it was the OP). I am just countering that argument.

For the other part, see below.

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

You are all forgetting a couple of things;

1. The shield scales of your health. 24K health = 1500 Shield in PvP.
2. If shield is fully consumed, the damage can still Crit. And what will NOT consume a 1500 shield? A Light attack ?
3. Having almost two full seconds of extra free CC "play-time" with that Streaking MagSorc you just got out of Stam, will be the difference between killing him - or not.

Unless i can see a specific benefit / reason for choosing the Shielded Assault, when looking at my build / playstyle, my default choice will always be Invasion. It should be for anyone else as well.

Thx for your answer. Are you playing with invasion? My experience is that the stun almost never happens in pvp. Like paulsimonps said. It feels like less then 9 out of 10. Do you different experience? Invasion will be my pick now for pve.

And for the dmg shields and the DKs out there: I dont know how many of you check their fight logs, but in mine igneous shield consumes soo much dmg! Dmg shields make a bit difference.

Actually, i am currently using Shielded Assault. But that is because my StamDK has 32K health, and is a specialized Health Regen Brawler. So i am stacking health-based shields from Shielded Assault, the 2H skill, and the two DK skills (Igneous and the Resistance one) for more than 10k shielding, while pummeling groups into submission.

So in that case, i have chosen Shielded Assault, because i want the shield. For any other build i have ever used, i have used Invasion.

For the "9 out of 10";

Yes. 9 out of 10 times, the extra stun will be useless, because opponent will CC break. But the exact same goes for the shield. 9 out of 10 times, the shield will either expire before you take damage, or it will have had no real impact on the fight.

What is important is that 1 out of 10 times, Invasion will get you the kill on that Sorcerer. The question is; Will the shield EVER have any real game impact for you ? And is it worth more to you, than the 1 out of 10 kills on the Sorc ? No one but yourself can really answer that.

But in my experience, the answer is, that the shield from Shield Assault will normally never ever have any real impact on your fight.

And just a sidenote; When i play my StamSorc in BG, using Invasion will very often get me the Stun. People run out of Stam all the time in NO CP Battlegrounds. Happens more than 1/10 IMO.

Thx for your long and detailed reply. The one with the crit hits was me: You cant get a crit hit with a dmg shield up, learned that from Alcast.
I see we come to the same conclusion in the end, but there are some things i wonder about: How can you not take dmg for 6 sec in a pvp fight? I dont know for ranged attack builds, but for melee, like me, its hard to imagine a fight where you dont take dmg for 6 sec.
For the dmg shields i say like i said before: Install combat metrics add on and check your fight logs, what i do almost every time and you will see what a role dmg shields play in fights, mainly duels.

Valencer

Using Shielded Assault in PvP makes about as much sense as using Igneous Shield for the actual shield...

Akinos

Neither morph is worth using, If I had to pick a morph for shield charge, I'd leave it unmorphed. If your a vampire, drain is generally better IMO, even as a stam build.
The morphs actually do something useful and it won't get you stuck in a load screen randomly. Yes it has a shorter range but that's hardly an issue if you are staying near your opponent like you should in PvP.