Unification or Independence?

Ir0nB34r

As everyone here knows, ESO focuses on the alliance war for the right to sit on the Iron Ruby Throne.

Now as the player we can debate from now until the end of time who would actually be the best ruler. But that's because they are written to provide that kind of nuance and depth. My question is asking you to look more objectively as a whole at each group. Their individual culture and values. Not the characters within them. The lore already seems to imply that the Imperials are the best ones for the job. But is that because that is how its always been? Just the status quo? Could someone do better?

Do you support all of Tamriel being ruled through a sole body (ie the Empire)? If so, which group or race do you think should do that? Maybe you support the idea that each race should rule their own land independently?

Father_X_Zombie

Unification (Describe which Group/Race should rule in the comments)

The Imperials, Tamriel was at its most peaceful and prosperous under the Septim Empire. The only reason that changed is the Oblivion Crisis.

starkerealm

Honestly, this question is a non-start. We already know what the outcome will be, further down the line, with the Septim dynasty ruling Tamriel for ~400 years.

Tucker3711

Other

The daedra should rule!!

ChibchanLawyer

Independence

Unification would be the best option if all the races understood the concept of equity.

The Imperials don't always guarantee a prosperous Empire, as it has been widely proved, but even in times of peace, in order for the Septim Empire to annex Morrowind, they allowed the practice of slavery. How can you have two vassal provinces, Morrowind and Black Marsh, both of which habitants should be considered equal citizens, and allow that one of them incursions into the other to slave their fellow citizens, whom should also be under the protection of YOUR Empire. Hence, the Black Marsh Independence from the Empire on the 4th era and the subsequent Morrowind Invasión, just to name an example, but same goes for the Orcs with the Bretons and Redguards; Wood elves and Khajiit, Nords and High Elves.

It's just not viable in Tamriel, too much bad blood between races.

Bombashaman

Unification (Describe which Group/Race should rule in the comments)

Dunmer of course, you n'wah,

starkerealm

Bombashaman wrote: »

Dunmer of course, you n'wah,

So... this would be a bad time to spoil the part where Almalexia will go bugnuts, wax Sotha Sil, and in the end, Vivec will just kinda disappear, leading to Red Mountain errupting, wiping out most of Vvardenfell, before the Argonians invade Morrowind, driving the vast majority of Dunmer into exile?

MythicEmperor

Unification (Describe which Group/Race should rule in the comments)

starkerealm wrote: »

Bombashaman wrote: »

Dunmer of course, you n'wah,

So... this would be a bad time to spoil the part where Almalexia will go bugnuts, wax Sotha Sil, and in the end, Vivec will just kinda disappear, leading to Red Mountain errupting, wiping out most of Vvardenfell, before the Argonians invade Morrowind, driving the vast majority of Dunmer into exile?

Except for House Telvanni of course, which, according to Neloth (Dragonborn), still has its holdings in Vvardenfell. Us Dunmer are hard to wipe out.

Bombashaman

Unification (Describe which Group/Race should rule in the comments)

starkerealm wrote: »

Bombashaman wrote: »

Dunmer of course, you n'wah,

So... this would be a bad time to spoil the part where Almalexia will go bugnuts, wax Sotha Sil, and in the end, Vivec will just kinda disappear, leading to Red Mountain errupting, wiping out most of Vvardenfell, before the Argonians invade Morrowind, driving the vast majority of Dunmer into exile?

The OP asked "which group or race do you think should do that". My answer is Dunmer.

starkerealm

MythicEmperor wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Bombashaman wrote: »

Dunmer of course, you n'wah,

So... this would be a bad time to spoil the part where Almalexia will go bugnuts, wax Sotha Sil, and in the end, Vivec will just kinda disappear, leading to Red Mountain errupting, wiping out most of Vvardenfell, before the Argonians invade Morrowind, driving the vast majority of Dunmer into exile?

Except for House Telvanni of course, which, according to Neloth (Dragonborn), still has its holdings in Vvardenfell. Us Dunmer are hard to wipe out.

Still weird how the Redoran were nearly wiped out, until you get to Dragonborn, and they're just hanging out on Solstheim like it's no big deal.

TelvanniWizard

Unification (Describe which Group/Race should rule in the comments)

The Empire will rule, for they have Akatosh will with them.

Minyassa

Independence

I don't really see it happening voluntarily on everyone's part, so I think they'd just be better off governing themselves. Most of the races clearly cannot, as a whole, empathize with the others or really make an effort to be diplomatic on more than a surface level. There are individuals that obviously don't have that problem, but what I see represented in general as race relations is a huge mess of racism and ego and lack of empathy and deaf ears. Putting any representative of a single race in charge of others looks to me like it would just result in more of the same but worse with authority and power behind it. I feel like an empire would just be one race ruling and the rest demoted to slavery.

djogani

Unification (Describe which Group/Race should rule in the comments)

Ok now that i voted a little explanation. Cyrodiil should be the heart of the Empire with Imperials as lets use the term first nation among equals lol ofc and all Tamriel should be united into one Empire, other regions and races should have vassal status which is win/win situation to me.

Nerouyn

ChibchanLawyer wrote: »

How can you have two vassal provinces, Morrowind and Black Marsh, both of which habitants should be considered equal citizens, and allow that one of them incursions into the other to slave their fellow citizens, whom should also be under the protection of YOUR Empire....

It's just not viable in Tamriel, too much bad blood between races.

Azura eventually solves that problem.

MythicEmperor

Unification (Describe which Group/Race should rule in the comments)

starkerealm wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Bombashaman wrote: »

Dunmer of course, you n'wah,

So... this would be a bad time to spoil the part where Almalexia will go bugnuts, wax Sotha Sil, and in the end, Vivec will just kinda disappear, leading to Red Mountain errupting, wiping out most of Vvardenfell, before the Argonians invade Morrowind, driving the vast majority of Dunmer into exile?

Except for House Telvanni of course, which, according to Neloth (Dragonborn), still has its holdings in Vvardenfell. Us Dunmer are hard to wipe out.

Still weird how the Redoran were nearly wiped out, until you get to Dragonborn, and they're just hanging out on Solstheim like it's no big deal.

Indeed. They are like cockroaches. Perhaps their emblem was mistaken to be a shalk?

Shardan4968

Unification (Describe which Group/Race should rule in the comments)

I think Imperials are were and will be the best rulers. They are diplomatic and make good strategists. Yeah they aren't perfect, it's outrageous that they did nothing with dunmers enslaving my favourite race. But I think, there's no as impartial race as Imperials. They (trying to) keep Tamriel whole and without them, Aldmeri Dominion would enslave all not mers long ago.

MythicEmperor

Unification (Describe which Group/Race should rule in the comments)

Shardan4968 wrote: »

I think Imperials are were and will be the best rulers. They are diplomatic and make good strategists. Yeah they aren't perfect, it's outrageous that they did nothing with dunmers enslaving my favourite race. But I think, there's no as impartial race as Imperials. They (trying to) keep Tamriel whole and without them, Aldmeri Dominion would enslave all not mers long ago.

The fact that they did nothing about slavery in Morrowind is the only thing that makes their oppressive reign tolerable. Those N'wahs think to enforce their laws and customs on our streets? And those Hlaalu S'wits welcome them with open arms? It is disgusting.

Cillion3117

Independence

So many vastly different cultures could never completely unify. Trying to force unification would only lead to more war. I say independent allies would be the best thing for everyone.

Shardan4968

Unification (Describe which Group/Race should rule in the comments)

MythicEmperor wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

I think Imperials are were and will be the best rulers. They are diplomatic and make good strategists. Yeah they aren't perfect, it's outrageous that they did nothing with dunmers enslaving my favourite race. But I think, there's no as impartial race as Imperials. They (trying to) keep Tamriel whole and without them, Aldmeri Dominion would enslave all not mers long ago.

The fact that they did nothing about slavery in Morrowind is the only thing that makes their oppressive reign tolerable. Those N'wahs think to enforce their laws and customs on our streets? And those Hlaalu S'wits welcome them with open arms? It is disgusting.

Well, they did nothing during events of TES3, but If I remember correctly slavery was banished just before TES4 (Iforgot about it) so get shrekt you dark-skinned spine-less milk-sucker. And Hlaalu are the worst ones, because they were acting like Empire friendly butt-lickers and at the same time they were using beastfolk as slaves and running Dren plantation. What's more Orvas Dren, brother to prince of Vvardenfell and second most important Hlaalu member was allied with Dagoth-Ur. Curse fits well to this pathetic race.

MythicEmperor

Unification (Describe which Group/Race should rule in the comments)

Shardan4968 wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

I think Imperials are were and will be the best rulers. They are diplomatic and make good strategists. Yeah they aren't perfect, it's outrageous that they did nothing with dunmers enslaving my favourite race. But I think, there's no as impartial race as Imperials. They (trying to) keep Tamriel whole and without them, Aldmeri Dominion would enslave all not mers long ago.

The fact that they did nothing about slavery in Morrowind is the only thing that makes their oppressive reign tolerable. Those N'wahs think to enforce their laws and customs on our streets? And those Hlaalu S'wits welcome them with open arms? It is disgusting.

Well, they did nothing during events of TES3, but If I remember correctly slavery was banished just before TES4 (Iforgot about it) so get shrekt you dark-skinned spine-less milk-sucker. And Hlaalu are the worst ones, because they were acting like Empire friendly butt-lickers and at the same time they were using beastfolk as slaves and running Dren plantation. What's more Orvas Dren, brother to prince of Vvardenfell and second most important Hlaalu member was allied with Dagoth-Ur. Curse fits well to this pathetic race.

Slavery was indeed abolished before TES: IV. By whom? It was the foolish decree of the Hlaalu King, Helseth. Do you truly believe that after the Argonian invasion we will heed the orders of a disgraced House? I think not. It would be akin to heeding Dagoth Ur himself. We, or at least House Telvanni, would likely revert to our ancestral right of slavery. This is the clearest way to exercise Dummer superiority. Think with a sharp mind before spewing N'wah propaganda.

starkerealm

MythicEmperor wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

I think Imperials are were and will be the best rulers. They are diplomatic and make good strategists. Yeah they aren't perfect, it's outrageous that they did nothing with dunmers enslaving my favourite race. But I think, there's no as impartial race as Imperials. They (trying to) keep Tamriel whole and without them, Aldmeri Dominion would enslave all not mers long ago.

The fact that they did nothing about slavery in Morrowind is the only thing that makes their oppressive reign tolerable. Those N'wahs think to enforce their laws and customs on our streets? And those Hlaalu S'wits welcome them with open arms? It is disgusting.

Well, they did nothing during events of TES3, but If I remember correctly slavery was banished just before TES4 (Iforgot about it) so get shrekt you dark-skinned spine-less milk-sucker. And Hlaalu are the worst ones, because they were acting like Empire friendly butt-lickers and at the same time they were using beastfolk as slaves and running Dren plantation. What's more Orvas Dren, brother to prince of Vvardenfell and second most important Hlaalu member was allied with Dagoth-Ur. Curse fits well to this pathetic race.

Slavery was indeed abolished before TES: IV. By whom? It was the foolish decree of the Hlaalu King, Helseth. Do you truly believe that after the Argonian invasion we will heed the orders of a disgraced House? I think not. It would be akin to heeding Dagoth Ur himself. We, or at least House Telvanni, would likely revert to our ancestral right of slavery. This is the clearest way to exercise Dummer superiority. Think with a sharp mind before spewing N'wah propaganda.

Well, if it makes you feel better, I once killed Helseth in a fit of pique.

Korah_Eaglecry

Its funny to see so many people back the Imperials claiming such noble things about them. Ignoring the fact that they violently conquered these other peoples. Killing thousands if not millions to do it. Ignoring the fact that they allow for one member nation to enslave the peoples of another member nation all the while claiming slavery is outlawed in member nations belonging to the empire. Ignoring the fact that the Imperials insert themselves into local politics and dictate whom among those people will lead them. And when push comes to shove are willing to sacrifice their member nations in a crisis (Oblivion proved that the Legions werent in these member nations to protect them but to enforce compliance, and the Legions recall to Cyrodiil is a reminder that at the end of the day, the Empire is nothing more than a point of pride for the Imperials. Its not actually something they care about and its member nations are not equals or seen as one and the same).

Imperials are violent thugs that will attack anyone they think they can assert themselves over. They think themselves better leaders than actual leaders of other peoples. Theres is no first among equals in the Empire. The Empire is the Emperor and his Legions. And without that there is no Empire.

No race is better than any other. They are all flawed.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Ignoring the fact that they allow for one member nation to enslave the peoples of another member nation all the while claiming slavery is outlawed in member nations belonging to the empire.

Do we know for fact the Alessian and Reman empires did that too?

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

And when push comes to shove are willing to sacrifice their member nations in a crisis (Oblivion proved that the Legions werent in these member nations to protect them but to enforce compliance, and the Legions recall to Cyrodiil is a reminder that at the end of the day, the Empire is nothing more than a point of pride for the Imperials. Its not actually something they care about and its member nations are not equals or seen as one and the same).

Err, what? Source please. I distinctly recall being told that they were not going to pull Legions out of the provinces to help save Cyrodiil.

I've been pleading for troops for Cyrodiil for weeks, but the generals assure me that the entire Imperial Army is already fully committed. Besides... I'd have a full-scale political crisis on my hands if I tried to pull any troops out of the provinces. I'm sorry, but the cities of Cyrodiil will have to fend for themselves for the time being.

Auldjohn

Other

Confederation of semi-autonimous self-ruled Nation States united under a Council in Cyrodiil, chaired by Dragonborn for the express purpose of combatting Molag Baal, Mannimarco, and the Daedric forces who would enslave all Tamriel. Infighting is worse than the Oblivion Crisis.

ArchMikem

Unification (Describe which Group/Race should rule in the comments)

I'm not gonna talk much about the current timeline with the Three Banners War, since in the grand scheme of things this whole game's War was written in at the last moment and when it comes to after the fact it's like the War never happened. Instead, I'll give my vision of a 4th Era Tamriel at it's best possible, given the events of Oblivion and Skyrim.



The Empire of Cyrodiil is still hanging on after it's devastating War with the Dominion. Hammerfell, feeling stung by the Empire abandoning them to the Dominion during the war, are left on their own with their Sovereignty, especially now that they're in the midst of a Civil War.

Skyrim (in my headcanon) repelled the Stormcloak Rebellion and remained as an Imperial Province, alongside High Rock, who even though have their own local power and sovereignty, remain a steadfast allied province to the Empire. I can't say what Wrothgar is up to in this Era.

After the Red Year, Black Marsh has now restructured into the Free Argonian State, under a new regime they intend to strengthen themselves as a modern people to never fear the whips of the Dunmer again. The land they claimed during their invasion of Morrowind has become a disputed, and arguably Argonian territory. Black Marsh retains their Sovereignty from the Empire, and the Empire leaves them to their affairs.

The Dominion is restrained to Summerset, Auridon, and their territories within the Valenwood, however after the War Valenwood has been turned into a disputed De-Militarized zone full of Dominion and Imperial spies, keeping tabs on each other's actions in the region.

Elsweyr, in my mind took the Dominion's authoritarian and malevolent presence as a wake up call that they made a terrible mistake in casting out the Empire. A group of ClanMothers argued that the Elves took advantage of the Moon crisis to win their favor as nothing more than to subjugate their lands and people. After yet another Coup by Imperial loyalists, Elsweyr rejoins the Empire as an allied Province once again.

- -

From every bit of Lore I've seen and read about Elder Scrolls, it all points to the fact that Tamriel NEEDS the Empire. It's the cement of Civilization on the continent that binds it all together to maintain peace and prosperity.

dodgehopper_ESO

Shardan4968 wrote: »

I think Imperials are were and will be the best rulers. They are diplomatic and make good strategists. Yeah they aren't perfect, it's outrageous that they did nothing with dunmers enslaving my favourite race. But I think, there's no as impartial race as Imperials. They (trying to) keep Tamriel whole and without them, Aldmeri Dominion would enslave all not mers long ago.

I think its pretty clear why the Imperials did nothing about it. The Septims didn't want to go into full scale war with the Tribunal. Septim was happy to get the brass tower and nothing more. They also don't stop the Argonians from fighting back and lets point out the Argonian kingdom of Black Marsh is very hard to conquer.

Lynx7386

Unification (Describe which Group/Race should rule in the comments)

Without a doubt, a khajiit should sit on the ruby throne (with a nice plush cushion of course). All the other races of tamriel would have no time to bicker and fight, because they're all going to be growing moon sugar and performing grooming and service for their new khajiit overlords.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

ArchMikem wrote: »

Skyrim (in my headcanon) repelled the Stormcloak Rebellion and remained as an Imperial Province, alongside High Rock, who even though have their own local power and sovereignty, remain a steadfast allied province to the Empire. I can't say what Wrothgar is up to in this Era.

I seem to recall that Orsinium is in a different place in the Fourth Era.*digs* Here we are:

Orcs, also known as Orsimer, are natives of Orsinium, a small mountain kingdom between Hammerfell and Skyrim. It has been sacked and rebuilt many times.

So Wrothgar is part of High Rock during ES5: Skyrim, and it sounds like Craglorn is the new Orc nation.

MythicEmperor

Unification (Describe which Group/Race should rule in the comments)

Tamriel should be put under Dunmer rule, us being biologically superior and all. The provinces with N’wah majorities should act purely as a source of slaves to support a growing Dunmer population. This is of course temporary; they will be starved and their numbers will dwindle until only Dunmer remain.

Ratzkifal

Independence

@ArchMikem

ArchMikem wrote: »

I'm not gonna talk much about the current timeline with the Three Banners War, since in the grand scheme of things this whole game's War was written in at the last moment and when it comes to after the fact it's like the War never happened. Instead, I'll give my vision of a 4th Era Tamriel at it's best possible, given the events of Oblivion and Skyrim.



The Empire of Cyrodiil is still hanging on after it's devastating War with the Dominion. Hammerfell, feeling stung by the Empire abandoning them to the Dominion during the war, are left on their own with their Sovereignty, especially now that they're in the midst of a Civil War.

Skyrim (in my headcanon) repelled the Stormcloak Rebellion and remained as an Imperial Province, alongside High Rock, who even though have their own local power and sovereignty, remain a steadfast allied province to the Empire. I can't say what Wrothgar is up to in this Era.

After the Red Year, Black Marsh has now restructured into the Free Argonian State, under a new regime they intend to strengthen themselves as a modern people to never fear the whips of the Dunmer again. The land they claimed during their invasion of Morrowind has become a disputed, and arguably Argonian territory. Black Marsh retains their Sovereignty from the Empire, and the Empire leaves them to their affairs.

The Dominion is restrained to Summerset, Auridon, and their territories within the Valenwood, however after the War Valenwood has been turned into a disputed De-Militarized zone full of Dominion and Imperial spies, keeping tabs on each other's actions in the region.

Elsweyr, in my mind took the Dominion's authoritarian and malevolent presence as a wake up call that they made a terrible mistake in casting out the Empire. A group of ClanMothers argued that the Elves took advantage of the Moon crisis to win their favor as nothing more than to subjugate their lands and people. After yet another Coup by Imperial loyalists, Elsweyr rejoins the Empire as an allied Province once again.

- -

From every bit of Lore I've seen and read about Elder Scrolls, it all points to the fact that Tamriel NEEDS the Empire. It's the cement of Civilization on the continent that binds it all together to maintain peace and prosperity.

Isn't Khajitistan also part of the Dominion since the Altmer (supposedly) brought the moons back and all?

ArchMikem

Unification (Describe which Group/Race should rule in the comments)

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Isn't Khajitistan also part of the Dominion since the Altmer (supposedly) brought the moons back and all?

In the Canon Lore yes, it is. I made up an excuse to where it wouldn't be anymore.