Sunderflame set

wesmont65 · August 2017

Good morning all,

I've a redguard stamdk at cp512 now and yesterday with some guildmates we've run vCoA and the 2 Sunder rings i was missing dropped. So now i can run 2 Sunderflame divines armor pieces + 3 jewels and i want your thoughts on the second set.

Should i go with Hundings or NMG as a second set? I'll be running with Warrior and probaly Veli or Mephala, infused poisoned dagger main hand, sharpened dagger off hand and precise bow for now cause my crit chance is a little bit low on the back bar.

Please keep in mind that TFS is not an option right now, i need jewels and it will take me a while to run vSO to get them.

Qbiken · August 2017

Both Hundings rage and NMG are viable options. Just make sure there aren´t 2 people in the group using MNG (yourself included) since the debuffs doesn´t stack. Other than that both are fine. If I remember correctly Hundings give a slightly higher dps increase "in general".

Regarding the bow on backbar = Precis doesn´t carry over to your frontbar. Sharp/infused/nirnhoned will be better on your bowbar.

cpuScientist · August 2017

Spriggan is better for solo, as the damage proc of sunder is total ***, and sunder is not up 100%, on my heavy attack stamDK it's up around 90%. So solo spriggan is good. But if you have a Stam buddy with you, then it becomes far better than spriggan/TFS as you are boosting their DPS as well.

Hundings vs NMG is really whatever. Again you'd be boosting any stam players, but you'd have to make sure no one else is it or it's wasted. Hundings is fantastic, honestly it's best to have both lying around so you can wear the hundings if no one else is or swap to the NMG to boost group if there are other stam with you.

Infused with sharpened/precise is what you want. Sharpened is better until the pen cap is reached, but it's all pretty close.

Stam mains, need to have alot of sets at their disposal, for all the different scenarios. Good that you got sunder. So you want to have, Kragh and veli for monster helms. TFS, NMG, Sunder, Hundings, and VO.

If I were you I'd start with hundings then make the NMG when you can afford to gold out the weapons again, aswell as enchant it all. TFS work towards getting (vSO sucks I know)

wesmont65 · August 2017

Qbiken wrote: »

Both Hundings rage and NMG are viable options. Just make sure there aren´t 2 people in the group using MNG (yourself included) since the debuffs doesn´t stack. Other than that both are fine. If I remember correctly Hundings give a slightly higher dps increase "in general".

Regarding the bow on backbar = Precis doesn´t carry over to your frontbar. Sharp/infused/nirnhoned will be better on your bowbar.

Thanks for the response mate, i know Precise is not a very good option but on my back bar my crit chance is a little bit low, 55 something %, that's why i went for Precise, you think I'll get better dps going back to sharpened or create a nirn one?

wesmont65 · August 2017

cpuScientist wrote: »

Spriggan is better for solo, as the damage proc of sunder is total ***, and sunder is not up 100%, on my heavy attack stamDK it's up around 90%. So solo spriggan is good. But if you have a Stam buddy with you, then it becomes far better than spriggan/TFS as you are boosting their DPS as well.

Hundings vs NMG is really whatever. Again you'd be boosting any stam players, but you'd have to make sure no one else is it or it's wasted. Hundings is fantastic, honestly it's best to have both lying around so you can wear the hundings if no one else is or swap to the NMG to boost group if there are other stam with you.

Infused with sharpened/precise is what you want. Sharpened is better until the pen cap is reached, but it's all pretty close.

Stam mains, need to have alot of sets at their disposal, for all the different scenarios. Good that you got sunder. So you want to have, Kragh and veli for monster helms. TFS, NMG, Sunder, Hundings, and VO.

If I were you I'd start with hundings then make the NMG when you can afford to gold out the weapons again, aswell as enchant it all. TFS work towards getting (vSO sucks I know)

I am currently running Hundings+ Spriggan's so i guess I'll keep my Sunderflame set available for running with my stam guildmates. I've also a complete NMG set, i am missing a gold infused dagger but i am planning to make one. I agree with you, it seems that we stamina characters needs to have a few sets available to adjust depending on the situation, so i guess I'll get there.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2017

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

Masel · August 2017

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

Still not really sure whether alkosh is really worth it to be honest.. You need to invest a whole lot to get a decent uptime.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2017

Masel92 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

Still not really sure whether alkosh is really worth it to be honest.. You need to invest a whole lot to get a decent uptime.

@Masel92
We had that debate at length in my raid last night. I was mistaken about the uptime in our group. I was looking at the "roar of alkosh buff" on combat metrics, but it's actually listed as "line-breaker". Sure you know that (I was apparently the only one that didnt), but our alkosh time was mid to high 80s with two DPS running it ( thought it was in the low 50s). Alkosh is also nice because it helps magic toons as well, unlike sunder and NM. I certainly agree that you can get to the cap without, but I think it's still worth running if you have enough stam DPS in our group. It's still a solid DPS set on a stam toon, but admittedly, I would personally prefer not to run it. I have never been much of a random synergy smasher, mostly because synergies are beyond broken in this game.

I certainly think its viable for a competitive group to ignore alkosh and have the maintank run Infused Torugs. You can definitely get to the pen cap. That said, if your stam DPS run it, it leaves your tank room for sets like powerful assault. If min/maxing to the nth degree, I think alkosh has a place. If looking for a simpler method with close to the same results, I think you can drop it.

wesmont65 · August 2017

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

Thank you kindly sir for your very well constructed and thorough explanation. I'll follow your advice and have both Hundings and NMG sets available, now on my way to get the Veli and the vMA bow.

One last question though, is it still Nirn bow better than Precise when without Precise my crit chance on my back bar is as low as 46-47% something?

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2017

wesmont65 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

Thank you kindly sir for your very well constructed and thorough explanation. I'll follow your advice and have both Hundings and NMG sets available, now on my way to get the Veli and the vMA bow.

One last question though, is it still Nirn bow better than Precise when without Precise my crit chance on my back bar is as low as 46-47% something?

I believed Nirn is the best trait for a bow, but run any VMA bow you get at first. I think it probably goes Nirn>Infused>Precise>Sharp, but don't quote me on that. Your back bar crit is nothing to get too concerned about. It will be higher when fully buffed. My average crit in trials is around 67%. I always tell people to focus on results more than stats. If you are running accepted meta gear, you stats will be what they will be. Good luck on the grind!

wesmont65 · August 2017

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

Thank you kindly sir for your very well constructed and thorough explanation. I'll follow your advice and have both Hundings and NMG sets available, now on my way to get the Veli and the vMA bow.

One last question though, is it still Nirn bow better than Precise when without Precise my crit chance on my back bar is as low as 46-47% something?

I believed Nirn is the best trait for a bow, but run any VMA bow you get at first. I think it probably goes Nirn>Infused>Precise>Sharp, but don't quote me on that. Your back bar crit is nothing to get too concerned about. It will be higher when fully buffed. My average crit in trials is around 67%. I always tell people to focus on results more than stats. If you are running accepted meta gear, you stats will be what they will be. Good luck on the grind!

Awesome, thank you very much sir!!

wesmont65 · September 2017

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

A small update.

I am currently running 5 NMG, 5 Sunder (3 purple jewels 2 body divines), 2 gold NMG daggers -Infused and Sharp and 1 Kra'gh helm, 1 Sharp gold NMG bow which I'll change to Nirn. Most pieces are still purple, 520cp.

Test on a 3k dummy, 24.4k dps with a 94% uptime on Sunderflame.

Front bar: Rending, Claw, Trap, Cloak, FoO
Back bar: Hail, Noxious Breath, Caltrops, Injection, Vigor

I usually do 3-4 HA on my front bar, so I was wondering if it's better to put Armaments on my bar instead of Vigor or Noxious and also how do you sustain 99% uptime on Sunder and lastly can you please tell me your blue cp distribution?

Izaki · September 2017

wesmont65 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

A small update.

I am currently running 5 NMG, 5 Sunder (3 purple jewels 2 body divines), 2 gold NMG daggers -Infused and Sharp and 1 Kra'gh helm, 1 Sharp gold NMG bow which I'll change to Nirn. Most pieces are still purple, 520cp.

Test on a 3k dummy, 24.4k dps with a 94% uptime on Sunderflame.

Front bar: Rending, Claw, Trap, Cloak, FoO
Back bar: Hail, Noxious Breath, Caltrops, Injection, Vigor

I usually do 3-4 HA on my front bar, so I was wondering if it's better to put Armaments on my bar instead of Vigor or Noxious and also how do you sustain 99% uptime on Sunder and lastly can you please tell me your blue cp distribution?

As a general rule, you can do 4 heavy attack weaves and 1 light attack weave on your front bar.
Replace Noxious Breath with Molten Armaments. For solo testing, drop FoO for Noxious Breath. In trials, unless your group has Morag Tong, don't use Noxious Breath at all, it does pretty crappy DPS.
So your rotation should go
LA > Hail > LA > Caltrops > LA > Injection > swap > HA > Trap > HA > Claw > HA > Slashes > HA > Cloak > LA > Noxious (FoO in raids)
Ths way you should be getting 100% uptime or close on Sunderflame.
Keep in mind that since the 3mil dummy is a very short fight, you Sunderflame uptime seems lower than it actually is, because you start the fight without it active.

wesmont65 · September 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

A small update.

I am currently running 5 NMG, 5 Sunder (3 purple jewels 2 body divines), 2 gold NMG daggers -Infused and Sharp and 1 Kra'gh helm, 1 Sharp gold NMG bow which I'll change to Nirn. Most pieces are still purple, 520cp.

Test on a 3k dummy, 24.4k dps with a 94% uptime on Sunderflame.

Front bar: Rending, Claw, Trap, Cloak, FoO
Back bar: Hail, Noxious Breath, Caltrops, Injection, Vigor

I usually do 3-4 HA on my front bar, so I was wondering if it's better to put Armaments on my bar instead of Vigor or Noxious and also how do you sustain 99% uptime on Sunder and lastly can you please tell me your blue cp distribution?

As a general rule, you can do 4 heavy attack weaves and 1 light attack weave on your front bar.
Replace Noxious Breath with Molten Armaments. For solo testing, drop FoO for Noxious Breath. In trials, unless your group has Morag Tong, don't use Noxious Breath at all, it does pretty crappy DPS.
So your rotation should go
LA > Hail > LA > Caltrops > LA > Injection > swap > HA > Trap > HA > Claw > HA > Slashes > HA > Cloak > LA > Noxious (FoO in raids)
Ths way you should be getting 100% uptime or close on Sunderflame.
Keep in mind that since the 3mil dummy is a very short fight, you Sunderflame uptime seems lower than it actually is, because you start the fight without it active.

That's very interesting, thank you sir!

i know that i haven't reach yet the full potencial of the build, i don't have yet the full monster set or the vMA bow and on the other hand you're absolutely right, i need 3-4 HA on my front bar otherwise i cannot sustain my stamina enough to execute Caltrops on every rotation.

Next step will be to get the Roburst dummy so I'll check the rotation on a bigger fight and see how it goes.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · September 2017

wesmont65 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

A small update.

I am currently running 5 NMG, 5 Sunder (3 purple jewels 2 body divines), 2 gold NMG daggers -Infused and Sharp and 1 Kra'gh helm, 1 Sharp gold NMG bow which I'll change to Nirn. Most pieces are still purple, 520cp.

Test on a 3k dummy, 24.4k dps with a 94% uptime on Sunderflame.

Front bar: Rending, Claw, Trap, Cloak, FoO
Back bar: Hail, Noxious Breath, Caltrops, Injection, Vigor

I usually do 3-4 HA on my front bar, so I was wondering if it's better to put Armaments on my bar instead of Vigor or Noxious and also how do you sustain 99% uptime on Sunder and lastly can you please tell me your blue cp distribution?

If you are asking me, I typically play stam sorc not stam DK. Been messing with it, but havent brought it into trials in a while. I will give a shout out to my buddy @hedna123b14_ESO (Nos) for builds and CP distribution. He does way more testing than me. Dude has killed my target dummy way more times than I have. He is also the reason there are now 6 of them in my house. Haha.

Optimal CP does depend on your group to some degree, mostly because you need to know what you are getting in terms of armor penetration. I believe all his calculations are based on the assumption that you have all the usual debuffs in play with good uptimes.

If it makes you feel better, that's about where I was on day one of testing. It took me a bit to retrain my fingers from a mSorc rotation. You are certainly missing a big chunk (bigger than you would think) of DPS because you dont have a VMA bow. With a VMA bow, hail does close to 20% of your DPS. Your sunder uptime is probably suffering because you arent opening with a heavy attack. I personally always buff deadly cloak and hurricane pre fight, and then charge in with a HA into trap. That means sunder is up right at the beginning of the fight. As to your rotation, my advice is do whatever you can to keep it circular and simple. In the beginning, nothing wrong in my opinion with putting HA in front of every skill on your front bar. It's what you do anyway if you are low on stam. Once you have that perfect, you can replace a few with Light Attacks to speed it up a bit.

Nos's Sorc Build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/293952/noss-aoe-king-stam-sorc-build-hotr-dlc-ready/p1

Nos's DK build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274101/noss-poison-knight-stamdk-build-db-ready/p1?new=1

Sauza_J · September 2017

Keep in mind if you run Hundings -- the true BiS would be the Sunderflame duel wields/jewelry and the Hundings body. If you have the Hundings duel wield weapons, you lose the 4 and 5 piece bonus when you switch to your bow. If you have the Sunderflame weapons, switching to your back bar will be less detrimental because the 5 piece Sunderflame will still retain the resistance reduction for the X amount of seconds (even on your back bar). Just something to consider, but the Sunderflame weapons are much more of a grind. Not sure if that is something you are considering.

If you run NMG, you don't have to worry because (just like the Sunderflame) the resistance reduction would hold even when you swap off your duel wield.

Cheers

hedna123b14_ESO · September 2017

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

A small update.

I am currently running 5 NMG, 5 Sunder (3 purple jewels 2 body divines), 2 gold NMG daggers -Infused and Sharp and 1 Kra'gh helm, 1 Sharp gold NMG bow which I'll change to Nirn. Most pieces are still purple, 520cp.

Test on a 3k dummy, 24.4k dps with a 94% uptime on Sunderflame.

Front bar: Rending, Claw, Trap, Cloak, FoO
Back bar: Hail, Noxious Breath, Caltrops, Injection, Vigor

I usually do 3-4 HA on my front bar, so I was wondering if it's better to put Armaments on my bar instead of Vigor or Noxious and also how do you sustain 99% uptime on Sunder and lastly can you please tell me your blue cp distribution?

If you are asking me, I typically play stam sorc not stam DK. Been messing with it, but havent brought it into trials in a while. I will give a shout out to my buddy @hedna123b14_ESO (Nos) for builds and CP distribution. He does way more testing than me. Dude has killed my target dummy way more times than I have. He is also the reason there are now 6 of them in my house. Haha.

Optimal CP does depend on your group to some degree, mostly because you need to know what you are getting in terms of armor penetration. I believe all his calculations are based on the assumption that you have all the usual debuffs in play with good uptimes.

If it makes you feel better, that's about where I was on day one of testing. It took me a bit to retrain my fingers from a mSorc rotation. You are certainly missing a big chunk (bigger than you would think) of DPS because you dont have a VMA bow. With a VMA bow, hail does close to 20% of your DPS. Your sunder uptime is probably suffering because you arent opening with a heavy attack. I personally always buff deadly cloak and hurricane pre fight, and then charge in with a HA into trap. That means sunder is up right at the beginning of the fight. As to your rotation, my advice is do whatever you can to keep it circular and simple. In the beginning, nothing wrong in my opinion with putting HA in front of every skill on your front bar. It's what you do anyway if you are low on stam. Once you have that perfect, you can replace a few with Light Attacks to speed it up a bit.

Nos's Sorc Build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/293952/noss-aoe-king-stam-sorc-build-hotr-dlc-ready/p1

Nos's DK build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274101/noss-poison-knight-stamdk-build-db-ready/p1?new=1

Thanks for the shoutout!

Yeah those builds are updated, so OP can use them as guidance. Keep in mind that CP optimization is for solo play and changes drastically depending on group composition.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · September 2017

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

A small update.

I am currently running 5 NMG, 5 Sunder (3 purple jewels 2 body divines), 2 gold NMG daggers -Infused and Sharp and 1 Kra'gh helm, 1 Sharp gold NMG bow which I'll change to Nirn. Most pieces are still purple, 520cp.

Test on a 3k dummy, 24.4k dps with a 94% uptime on Sunderflame.

Front bar: Rending, Claw, Trap, Cloak, FoO
Back bar: Hail, Noxious Breath, Caltrops, Injection, Vigor

I usually do 3-4 HA on my front bar, so I was wondering if it's better to put Armaments on my bar instead of Vigor or Noxious and also how do you sustain 99% uptime on Sunder and lastly can you please tell me your blue cp distribution?

If you are asking me, I typically play stam sorc not stam DK. Been messing with it, but havent brought it into trials in a while. I will give a shout out to my buddy @hedna123b14_ESO (Nos) for builds and CP distribution. He does way more testing than me. Dude has killed my target dummy way more times than I have. He is also the reason there are now 6 of them in my house. Haha.

Optimal CP does depend on your group to some degree, mostly because you need to know what you are getting in terms of armor penetration. I believe all his calculations are based on the assumption that you have all the usual debuffs in play with good uptimes.

If it makes you feel better, that's about where I was on day one of testing. It took me a bit to retrain my fingers from a mSorc rotation. You are certainly missing a big chunk (bigger than you would think) of DPS because you dont have a VMA bow. With a VMA bow, hail does close to 20% of your DPS. Your sunder uptime is probably suffering because you arent opening with a heavy attack. I personally always buff deadly cloak and hurricane pre fight, and then charge in with a HA into trap. That means sunder is up right at the beginning of the fight. As to your rotation, my advice is do whatever you can to keep it circular and simple. In the beginning, nothing wrong in my opinion with putting HA in front of every skill on your front bar. It's what you do anyway if you are low on stam. Once you have that perfect, you can replace a few with Light Attacks to speed it up a bit.

Nos's Sorc Build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/293952/noss-aoe-king-stam-sorc-build-hotr-dlc-ready/p1

Nos's DK build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274101/noss-poison-knight-stamdk-build-db-ready/p1?new=1

Thanks for the shoutout!

Yeah those builds are updated, so OP can use them as guidance. Keep in mind that CP optimization is for solo play and changes drastically depending on group composition.

As you can see in his sig, he doesnt stop at those two. Also why I keep him on speed dial. Haha

hedna123b14_ESO · September 2017

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

A small update.

I am currently running 5 NMG, 5 Sunder (3 purple jewels 2 body divines), 2 gold NMG daggers -Infused and Sharp and 1 Kra'gh helm, 1 Sharp gold NMG bow which I'll change to Nirn. Most pieces are still purple, 520cp.

Test on a 3k dummy, 24.4k dps with a 94% uptime on Sunderflame.

Front bar: Rending, Claw, Trap, Cloak, FoO
Back bar: Hail, Noxious Breath, Caltrops, Injection, Vigor

I usually do 3-4 HA on my front bar, so I was wondering if it's better to put Armaments on my bar instead of Vigor or Noxious and also how do you sustain 99% uptime on Sunder and lastly can you please tell me your blue cp distribution?

If you are asking me, I typically play stam sorc not stam DK. Been messing with it, but havent brought it into trials in a while. I will give a shout out to my buddy @hedna123b14_ESO (Nos) for builds and CP distribution. He does way more testing than me. Dude has killed my target dummy way more times than I have. He is also the reason there are now 6 of them in my house. Haha.

Optimal CP does depend on your group to some degree, mostly because you need to know what you are getting in terms of armor penetration. I believe all his calculations are based on the assumption that you have all the usual debuffs in play with good uptimes.

If it makes you feel better, that's about where I was on day one of testing. It took me a bit to retrain my fingers from a mSorc rotation. You are certainly missing a big chunk (bigger than you would think) of DPS because you dont have a VMA bow. With a VMA bow, hail does close to 20% of your DPS. Your sunder uptime is probably suffering because you arent opening with a heavy attack. I personally always buff deadly cloak and hurricane pre fight, and then charge in with a HA into trap. That means sunder is up right at the beginning of the fight. As to your rotation, my advice is do whatever you can to keep it circular and simple. In the beginning, nothing wrong in my opinion with putting HA in front of every skill on your front bar. It's what you do anyway if you are low on stam. Once you have that perfect, you can replace a few with Light Attacks to speed it up a bit.

Nos's Sorc Build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/293952/noss-aoe-king-stam-sorc-build-hotr-dlc-ready/p1

Nos's DK build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274101/noss-poison-knight-stamdk-build-db-ready/p1?new=1

Thanks for the shoutout!

Yeah those builds are updated, so OP can use them as guidance. Keep in mind that CP optimization is for solo play and changes drastically depending on group composition.

As you can see in his sig, he doesnt stop at those two. Also why I keep him on speed dial. Haha

Something strange
Inyour CM parse
Who you gonna call?
Call Nos yo!

wesmont65 · September 2017

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

A small update.

I am currently running 5 NMG, 5 Sunder (3 purple jewels 2 body divines), 2 gold NMG daggers -Infused and Sharp and 1 Kra'gh helm, 1 Sharp gold NMG bow which I'll change to Nirn. Most pieces are still purple, 520cp.

Test on a 3k dummy, 24.4k dps with a 94% uptime on Sunderflame.

Front bar: Rending, Claw, Trap, Cloak, FoO
Back bar: Hail, Noxious Breath, Caltrops, Injection, Vigor

I usually do 3-4 HA on my front bar, so I was wondering if it's better to put Armaments on my bar instead of Vigor or Noxious and also how do you sustain 99% uptime on Sunder and lastly can you please tell me your blue cp distribution?

If you are asking me, I typically play stam sorc not stam DK. Been messing with it, but havent brought it into trials in a while. I will give a shout out to my buddy @hedna123b14_ESO (Nos) for builds and CP distribution. He does way more testing than me. Dude has killed my target dummy way more times than I have. He is also the reason there are now 6 of them in my house. Haha.

Optimal CP does depend on your group to some degree, mostly because you need to know what you are getting in terms of armor penetration. I believe all his calculations are based on the assumption that you have all the usual debuffs in play with good uptimes.

If it makes you feel better, that's about where I was on day one of testing. It took me a bit to retrain my fingers from a mSorc rotation. You are certainly missing a big chunk (bigger than you would think) of DPS because you dont have a VMA bow. With a VMA bow, hail does close to 20% of your DPS. Your sunder uptime is probably suffering because you arent opening with a heavy attack. I personally always buff deadly cloak and hurricane pre fight, and then charge in with a HA into trap. That means sunder is up right at the beginning of the fight. As to your rotation, my advice is do whatever you can to keep it circular and simple. In the beginning, nothing wrong in my opinion with putting HA in front of every skill on your front bar. It's what you do anyway if you are low on stam. Once you have that perfect, you can replace a few with Light Attacks to speed it up a bit.

Nos's Sorc Build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/293952/noss-aoe-king-stam-sorc-build-hotr-dlc-ready/p1

Nos's DK build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274101/noss-poison-knight-stamdk-build-db-ready/p1?new=1

Thanks for the shoutout!

Yeah those builds are updated, so OP can use them as guidance. Keep in mind that CP optimization is for solo play and changes drastically depending on group composition.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

A small update.

I am currently running 5 NMG, 5 Sunder (3 purple jewels 2 body divines), 2 gold NMG daggers -Infused and Sharp and 1 Kra'gh helm, 1 Sharp gold NMG bow which I'll change to Nirn. Most pieces are still purple, 520cp.

Test on a 3k dummy, 24.4k dps with a 94% uptime on Sunderflame.

Front bar: Rending, Claw, Trap, Cloak, FoO
Back bar: Hail, Noxious Breath, Caltrops, Injection, Vigor

I usually do 3-4 HA on my front bar, so I was wondering if it's better to put Armaments on my bar instead of Vigor or Noxious and also how do you sustain 99% uptime on Sunder and lastly can you please tell me your blue cp distribution?

If you are asking me, I typically play stam sorc not stam DK. Been messing with it, but havent brought it into trials in a while. I will give a shout out to my buddy @hedna123b14_ESO (Nos) for builds and CP distribution. He does way more testing than me. Dude has killed my target dummy way more times than I have. He is also the reason there are now 6 of them in my house. Haha.

Optimal CP does depend on your group to some degree, mostly because you need to know what you are getting in terms of armor penetration. I believe all his calculations are based on the assumption that you have all the usual debuffs in play with good uptimes.

If it makes you feel better, that's about where I was on day one of testing. It took me a bit to retrain my fingers from a mSorc rotation. You are certainly missing a big chunk (bigger than you would think) of DPS because you dont have a VMA bow. With a VMA bow, hail does close to 20% of your DPS. Your sunder uptime is probably suffering because you arent opening with a heavy attack. I personally always buff deadly cloak and hurricane pre fight, and then charge in with a HA into trap. That means sunder is up right at the beginning of the fight. As to your rotation, my advice is do whatever you can to keep it circular and simple. In the beginning, nothing wrong in my opinion with putting HA in front of every skill on your front bar. It's what you do anyway if you are low on stam. Once you have that perfect, you can replace a few with Light Attacks to speed it up a bit.

Nos's Sorc Build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/293952/noss-aoe-king-stam-sorc-build-hotr-dlc-ready/p1

Nos's DK build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274101/noss-poison-knight-stamdk-build-db-ready/p1?new=1

Thanks for the shoutout!

Yeah those builds are updated, so OP can use them as guidance. Keep in mind that CP optimization is for solo play and changes drastically depending on group composition.

As you can see in his sig, he doesnt stop at those two. Also why I keep him on speed dial. Haha

Morning guys,

Of course I know Nos, actually I am following his Poison Knight build from Tamriel Foundry's site, he has already answered on some of my questions there.

He is using TFS on many of his stamina builds, which of course is an awesome set but I don't see my shelf getting the purple jewels any time soon so I'll stick to Sunder+ NMG or Hundings and working on getting the vMA bow. Especially now that retrait is coming I think it will not be to hard to get.

Nice tip to open up with a HA-Trap, I haven't thought about that, anyway thank you all for your help guys!!!

cpuScientist · September 2017

wesmont65 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

A small update.

I am currently running 5 NMG, 5 Sunder (3 purple jewels 2 body divines), 2 gold NMG daggers -Infused and Sharp and 1 Kra'gh helm, 1 Sharp gold NMG bow which I'll change to Nirn. Most pieces are still purple, 520cp.

Test on a 3k dummy, 24.4k dps with a 94% uptime on Sunderflame.

Front bar: Rending, Claw, Trap, Cloak, FoO
Back bar: Hail, Noxious Breath, Caltrops, Injection, Vigor

I usually do 3-4 HA on my front bar, so I was wondering if it's better to put Armaments on my bar instead of Vigor or Noxious and also how do you sustain 99% uptime on Sunder and lastly can you please tell me your blue cp distribution?

If you are asking me, I typically play stam sorc not stam DK. Been messing with it, but havent brought it into trials in a while. I will give a shout out to my buddy @hedna123b14_ESO (Nos) for builds and CP distribution. He does way more testing than me. Dude has killed my target dummy way more times than I have. He is also the reason there are now 6 of them in my house. Haha.

Optimal CP does depend on your group to some degree, mostly because you need to know what you are getting in terms of armor penetration. I believe all his calculations are based on the assumption that you have all the usual debuffs in play with good uptimes.

If it makes you feel better, that's about where I was on day one of testing. It took me a bit to retrain my fingers from a mSorc rotation. You are certainly missing a big chunk (bigger than you would think) of DPS because you dont have a VMA bow. With a VMA bow, hail does close to 20% of your DPS. Your sunder uptime is probably suffering because you arent opening with a heavy attack. I personally always buff deadly cloak and hurricane pre fight, and then charge in with a HA into trap. That means sunder is up right at the beginning of the fight. As to your rotation, my advice is do whatever you can to keep it circular and simple. In the beginning, nothing wrong in my opinion with putting HA in front of every skill on your front bar. It's what you do anyway if you are low on stam. Once you have that perfect, you can replace a few with Light Attacks to speed it up a bit.

Nos's Sorc Build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/293952/noss-aoe-king-stam-sorc-build-hotr-dlc-ready/p1

Nos's DK build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274101/noss-poison-knight-stamdk-build-db-ready/p1?new=1

Thanks for the shoutout!

Yeah those builds are updated, so OP can use them as guidance. Keep in mind that CP optimization is for solo play and changes drastically depending on group composition.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

A small update.

I am currently running 5 NMG, 5 Sunder (3 purple jewels 2 body divines), 2 gold NMG daggers -Infused and Sharp and 1 Kra'gh helm, 1 Sharp gold NMG bow which I'll change to Nirn. Most pieces are still purple, 520cp.

Test on a 3k dummy, 24.4k dps with a 94% uptime on Sunderflame.

Front bar: Rending, Claw, Trap, Cloak, FoO
Back bar: Hail, Noxious Breath, Caltrops, Injection, Vigor

I usually do 3-4 HA on my front bar, so I was wondering if it's better to put Armaments on my bar instead of Vigor or Noxious and also how do you sustain 99% uptime on Sunder and lastly can you please tell me your blue cp distribution?

If you are asking me, I typically play stam sorc not stam DK. Been messing with it, but havent brought it into trials in a while. I will give a shout out to my buddy @hedna123b14_ESO (Nos) for builds and CP distribution. He does way more testing than me. Dude has killed my target dummy way more times than I have. He is also the reason there are now 6 of them in my house. Haha.

Optimal CP does depend on your group to some degree, mostly because you need to know what you are getting in terms of armor penetration. I believe all his calculations are based on the assumption that you have all the usual debuffs in play with good uptimes.

If it makes you feel better, that's about where I was on day one of testing. It took me a bit to retrain my fingers from a mSorc rotation. You are certainly missing a big chunk (bigger than you would think) of DPS because you dont have a VMA bow. With a VMA bow, hail does close to 20% of your DPS. Your sunder uptime is probably suffering because you arent opening with a heavy attack. I personally always buff deadly cloak and hurricane pre fight, and then charge in with a HA into trap. That means sunder is up right at the beginning of the fight. As to your rotation, my advice is do whatever you can to keep it circular and simple. In the beginning, nothing wrong in my opinion with putting HA in front of every skill on your front bar. It's what you do anyway if you are low on stam. Once you have that perfect, you can replace a few with Light Attacks to speed it up a bit.

Nos's Sorc Build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/293952/noss-aoe-king-stam-sorc-build-hotr-dlc-ready/p1

Nos's DK build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274101/noss-poison-knight-stamdk-build-db-ready/p1?new=1

Thanks for the shoutout!

Yeah those builds are updated, so OP can use them as guidance. Keep in mind that CP optimization is for solo play and changes drastically depending on group composition.

As you can see in his sig, he doesnt stop at those two. Also why I keep him on speed dial. Haha

Morning guys,

Of course I know Nos, actually I am following his Poison Knight build from Tamriel Foundry's site, he has already answered on some of my questions there.

He is using TFS on many of his stamina builds, which of course is an awesome set but I don't see my shelf getting the purple jewels any time soon so I'll stick to Sunder+ NMG or Hundings and working on getting the vMA bow. Especially now that retrait is coming I think it will not be to hard to get.

Nice tip to open up with a HA-Trap, I haven't thought about that, anyway thank you all for your help guys!!!

Real quick always remember spriggan is an option. 100% uptime no fuss with heavies. But if you run sunder and nmg I know alot of groups that wouldn't mind having you lol

wesmont65 · September 2017

cpuScientist wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

A small update.

I am currently running 5 NMG, 5 Sunder (3 purple jewels 2 body divines), 2 gold NMG daggers -Infused and Sharp and 1 Kra'gh helm, 1 Sharp gold NMG bow which I'll change to Nirn. Most pieces are still purple, 520cp.

Test on a 3k dummy, 24.4k dps with a 94% uptime on Sunderflame.

Front bar: Rending, Claw, Trap, Cloak, FoO
Back bar: Hail, Noxious Breath, Caltrops, Injection, Vigor

I usually do 3-4 HA on my front bar, so I was wondering if it's better to put Armaments on my bar instead of Vigor or Noxious and also how do you sustain 99% uptime on Sunder and lastly can you please tell me your blue cp distribution?

If you are asking me, I typically play stam sorc not stam DK. Been messing with it, but havent brought it into trials in a while. I will give a shout out to my buddy @hedna123b14_ESO (Nos) for builds and CP distribution. He does way more testing than me. Dude has killed my target dummy way more times than I have. He is also the reason there are now 6 of them in my house. Haha.

Optimal CP does depend on your group to some degree, mostly because you need to know what you are getting in terms of armor penetration. I believe all his calculations are based on the assumption that you have all the usual debuffs in play with good uptimes.

If it makes you feel better, that's about where I was on day one of testing. It took me a bit to retrain my fingers from a mSorc rotation. You are certainly missing a big chunk (bigger than you would think) of DPS because you dont have a VMA bow. With a VMA bow, hail does close to 20% of your DPS. Your sunder uptime is probably suffering because you arent opening with a heavy attack. I personally always buff deadly cloak and hurricane pre fight, and then charge in with a HA into trap. That means sunder is up right at the beginning of the fight. As to your rotation, my advice is do whatever you can to keep it circular and simple. In the beginning, nothing wrong in my opinion with putting HA in front of every skill on your front bar. It's what you do anyway if you are low on stam. Once you have that perfect, you can replace a few with Light Attacks to speed it up a bit.

Nos's Sorc Build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/293952/noss-aoe-king-stam-sorc-build-hotr-dlc-ready/p1

Nos's DK build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274101/noss-poison-knight-stamdk-build-db-ready/p1?new=1

Thanks for the shoutout!

Yeah those builds are updated, so OP can use them as guidance. Keep in mind that CP optimization is for solo play and changes drastically depending on group composition.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

A small update.

I am currently running 5 NMG, 5 Sunder (3 purple jewels 2 body divines), 2 gold NMG daggers -Infused and Sharp and 1 Kra'gh helm, 1 Sharp gold NMG bow which I'll change to Nirn. Most pieces are still purple, 520cp.

Test on a 3k dummy, 24.4k dps with a 94% uptime on Sunderflame.

Front bar: Rending, Claw, Trap, Cloak, FoO
Back bar: Hail, Noxious Breath, Caltrops, Injection, Vigor

I usually do 3-4 HA on my front bar, so I was wondering if it's better to put Armaments on my bar instead of Vigor or Noxious and also how do you sustain 99% uptime on Sunder and lastly can you please tell me your blue cp distribution?

If you are asking me, I typically play stam sorc not stam DK. Been messing with it, but havent brought it into trials in a while. I will give a shout out to my buddy @hedna123b14_ESO (Nos) for builds and CP distribution. He does way more testing than me. Dude has killed my target dummy way more times than I have. He is also the reason there are now 6 of them in my house. Haha.

Optimal CP does depend on your group to some degree, mostly because you need to know what you are getting in terms of armor penetration. I believe all his calculations are based on the assumption that you have all the usual debuffs in play with good uptimes.

If it makes you feel better, that's about where I was on day one of testing. It took me a bit to retrain my fingers from a mSorc rotation. You are certainly missing a big chunk (bigger than you would think) of DPS because you dont have a VMA bow. With a VMA bow, hail does close to 20% of your DPS. Your sunder uptime is probably suffering because you arent opening with a heavy attack. I personally always buff deadly cloak and hurricane pre fight, and then charge in with a HA into trap. That means sunder is up right at the beginning of the fight. As to your rotation, my advice is do whatever you can to keep it circular and simple. In the beginning, nothing wrong in my opinion with putting HA in front of every skill on your front bar. It's what you do anyway if you are low on stam. Once you have that perfect, you can replace a few with Light Attacks to speed it up a bit.

Nos's Sorc Build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/293952/noss-aoe-king-stam-sorc-build-hotr-dlc-ready/p1

Nos's DK build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274101/noss-poison-knight-stamdk-build-db-ready/p1?new=1

Thanks for the shoutout!

Yeah those builds are updated, so OP can use them as guidance. Keep in mind that CP optimization is for solo play and changes drastically depending on group composition.

As you can see in his sig, he doesnt stop at those two. Also why I keep him on speed dial. Haha

Morning guys,

Of course I know Nos, actually I am following his Poison Knight build from Tamriel Foundry's site, he has already answered on some of my questions there.

He is using TFS on many of his stamina builds, which of course is an awesome set but I don't see my shelf getting the purple jewels any time soon so I'll stick to Sunder+ NMG or Hundings and working on getting the vMA bow. Especially now that retrait is coming I think it will not be to hard to get.

Nice tip to open up with a HA-Trap, I haven't thought about that, anyway thank you all for your help guys!!!

Real quick always remember spriggan is an option. 100% uptime no fuss with heavies. But if you run sunder and nmg I know alot of groups that wouldn't mind having you lol

I was running Spriggan's before, it's always an option but i don't think it will be useful in a trial's environment, Sunder+NMG will be more beneficial for the group.

cpuScientist · September 2017

wesmont65 wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

A small update.

I am currently running 5 NMG, 5 Sunder (3 purple jewels 2 body divines), 2 gold NMG daggers -Infused and Sharp and 1 Kra'gh helm, 1 Sharp gold NMG bow which I'll change to Nirn. Most pieces are still purple, 520cp.

Test on a 3k dummy, 24.4k dps with a 94% uptime on Sunderflame.

Front bar: Rending, Claw, Trap, Cloak, FoO
Back bar: Hail, Noxious Breath, Caltrops, Injection, Vigor

I usually do 3-4 HA on my front bar, so I was wondering if it's better to put Armaments on my bar instead of Vigor or Noxious and also how do you sustain 99% uptime on Sunder and lastly can you please tell me your blue cp distribution?

If you are asking me, I typically play stam sorc not stam DK. Been messing with it, but havent brought it into trials in a while. I will give a shout out to my buddy @hedna123b14_ESO (Nos) for builds and CP distribution. He does way more testing than me. Dude has killed my target dummy way more times than I have. He is also the reason there are now 6 of them in my house. Haha.

Optimal CP does depend on your group to some degree, mostly because you need to know what you are getting in terms of armor penetration. I believe all his calculations are based on the assumption that you have all the usual debuffs in play with good uptimes.

If it makes you feel better, that's about where I was on day one of testing. It took me a bit to retrain my fingers from a mSorc rotation. You are certainly missing a big chunk (bigger than you would think) of DPS because you dont have a VMA bow. With a VMA bow, hail does close to 20% of your DPS. Your sunder uptime is probably suffering because you arent opening with a heavy attack. I personally always buff deadly cloak and hurricane pre fight, and then charge in with a HA into trap. That means sunder is up right at the beginning of the fight. As to your rotation, my advice is do whatever you can to keep it circular and simple. In the beginning, nothing wrong in my opinion with putting HA in front of every skill on your front bar. It's what you do anyway if you are low on stam. Once you have that perfect, you can replace a few with Light Attacks to speed it up a bit.

Nos's Sorc Build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/293952/noss-aoe-king-stam-sorc-build-hotr-dlc-ready/p1

Nos's DK build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274101/noss-poison-knight-stamdk-build-db-ready/p1?new=1

Thanks for the shoutout!

Yeah those builds are updated, so OP can use them as guidance. Keep in mind that CP optimization is for solo play and changes drastically depending on group composition.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

A small update.

I am currently running 5 NMG, 5 Sunder (3 purple jewels 2 body divines), 2 gold NMG daggers -Infused and Sharp and 1 Kra'gh helm, 1 Sharp gold NMG bow which I'll change to Nirn. Most pieces are still purple, 520cp.

Test on a 3k dummy, 24.4k dps with a 94% uptime on Sunderflame.

Front bar: Rending, Claw, Trap, Cloak, FoO
Back bar: Hail, Noxious Breath, Caltrops, Injection, Vigor

I usually do 3-4 HA on my front bar, so I was wondering if it's better to put Armaments on my bar instead of Vigor or Noxious and also how do you sustain 99% uptime on Sunder and lastly can you please tell me your blue cp distribution?

If you are asking me, I typically play stam sorc not stam DK. Been messing with it, but havent brought it into trials in a while. I will give a shout out to my buddy @hedna123b14_ESO (Nos) for builds and CP distribution. He does way more testing than me. Dude has killed my target dummy way more times than I have. He is also the reason there are now 6 of them in my house. Haha.

Optimal CP does depend on your group to some degree, mostly because you need to know what you are getting in terms of armor penetration. I believe all his calculations are based on the assumption that you have all the usual debuffs in play with good uptimes.

If it makes you feel better, that's about where I was on day one of testing. It took me a bit to retrain my fingers from a mSorc rotation. You are certainly missing a big chunk (bigger than you would think) of DPS because you dont have a VMA bow. With a VMA bow, hail does close to 20% of your DPS. Your sunder uptime is probably suffering because you arent opening with a heavy attack. I personally always buff deadly cloak and hurricane pre fight, and then charge in with a HA into trap. That means sunder is up right at the beginning of the fight. As to your rotation, my advice is do whatever you can to keep it circular and simple. In the beginning, nothing wrong in my opinion with putting HA in front of every skill on your front bar. It's what you do anyway if you are low on stam. Once you have that perfect, you can replace a few with Light Attacks to speed it up a bit.

Nos's Sorc Build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/293952/noss-aoe-king-stam-sorc-build-hotr-dlc-ready/p1

Nos's DK build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274101/noss-poison-knight-stamdk-build-db-ready/p1?new=1

Thanks for the shoutout!

Yeah those builds are updated, so OP can use them as guidance. Keep in mind that CP optimization is for solo play and changes drastically depending on group composition.

As you can see in his sig, he doesnt stop at those two. Also why I keep him on speed dial. Haha

Morning guys,

Of course I know Nos, actually I am following his Poison Knight build from Tamriel Foundry's site, he has already answered on some of my questions there.

He is using TFS on many of his stamina builds, which of course is an awesome set but I don't see my shelf getting the purple jewels any time soon so I'll stick to Sunder+ NMG or Hundings and working on getting the vMA bow. Especially now that retrait is coming I think it will not be to hard to get.

Nice tip to open up with a HA-Trap, I haven't thought about that, anyway thank you all for your help guys!!!

Real quick always remember spriggan is an option. 100% uptime no fuss with heavies. But if you run sunder and nmg I know alot of groups that wouldn't mind having you lol

I was running Spriggan's before, it's always an option but i don't think it will be useful in a trial's environment, Sunder+NMG will be more beneficial for the group.

Oh yeah of course. I'm just saying if it's a low Stam group or a 4 man/solo spriggan is better than those. If it is for a trial with a lot of Stam. You'd only be wearing one as these sets are shared around the Stam as to not lower the dps of one user by too much. So you'd use sunder hundings or nmg with vicious/automaton/war mahcine etc....

wesmont65 · September 2017

cpuScientist wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

A small update.

I am currently running 5 NMG, 5 Sunder (3 purple jewels 2 body divines), 2 gold NMG daggers -Infused and Sharp and 1 Kra'gh helm, 1 Sharp gold NMG bow which I'll change to Nirn. Most pieces are still purple, 520cp.

Test on a 3k dummy, 24.4k dps with a 94% uptime on Sunderflame.

Front bar: Rending, Claw, Trap, Cloak, FoO
Back bar: Hail, Noxious Breath, Caltrops, Injection, Vigor

I usually do 3-4 HA on my front bar, so I was wondering if it's better to put Armaments on my bar instead of Vigor or Noxious and also how do you sustain 99% uptime on Sunder and lastly can you please tell me your blue cp distribution?

If you are asking me, I typically play stam sorc not stam DK. Been messing with it, but havent brought it into trials in a while. I will give a shout out to my buddy @hedna123b14_ESO (Nos) for builds and CP distribution. He does way more testing than me. Dude has killed my target dummy way more times than I have. He is also the reason there are now 6 of them in my house. Haha.

Optimal CP does depend on your group to some degree, mostly because you need to know what you are getting in terms of armor penetration. I believe all his calculations are based on the assumption that you have all the usual debuffs in play with good uptimes.

If it makes you feel better, that's about where I was on day one of testing. It took me a bit to retrain my fingers from a mSorc rotation. You are certainly missing a big chunk (bigger than you would think) of DPS because you dont have a VMA bow. With a VMA bow, hail does close to 20% of your DPS. Your sunder uptime is probably suffering because you arent opening with a heavy attack. I personally always buff deadly cloak and hurricane pre fight, and then charge in with a HA into trap. That means sunder is up right at the beginning of the fight. As to your rotation, my advice is do whatever you can to keep it circular and simple. In the beginning, nothing wrong in my opinion with putting HA in front of every skill on your front bar. It's what you do anyway if you are low on stam. Once you have that perfect, you can replace a few with Light Attacks to speed it up a bit.

Nos's Sorc Build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/293952/noss-aoe-king-stam-sorc-build-hotr-dlc-ready/p1

Nos's DK build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274101/noss-poison-knight-stamdk-build-db-ready/p1?new=1

Thanks for the shoutout!

Yeah those builds are updated, so OP can use them as guidance. Keep in mind that CP optimization is for solo play and changes drastically depending on group composition.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

A small update.

I am currently running 5 NMG, 5 Sunder (3 purple jewels 2 body divines), 2 gold NMG daggers -Infused and Sharp and 1 Kra'gh helm, 1 Sharp gold NMG bow which I'll change to Nirn. Most pieces are still purple, 520cp.

Test on a 3k dummy, 24.4k dps with a 94% uptime on Sunderflame.

Front bar: Rending, Claw, Trap, Cloak, FoO
Back bar: Hail, Noxious Breath, Caltrops, Injection, Vigor

I usually do 3-4 HA on my front bar, so I was wondering if it's better to put Armaments on my bar instead of Vigor or Noxious and also how do you sustain 99% uptime on Sunder and lastly can you please tell me your blue cp distribution?

If you are asking me, I typically play stam sorc not stam DK. Been messing with it, but havent brought it into trials in a while. I will give a shout out to my buddy @hedna123b14_ESO (Nos) for builds and CP distribution. He does way more testing than me. Dude has killed my target dummy way more times than I have. He is also the reason there are now 6 of them in my house. Haha.

Optimal CP does depend on your group to some degree, mostly because you need to know what you are getting in terms of armor penetration. I believe all his calculations are based on the assumption that you have all the usual debuffs in play with good uptimes.

If it makes you feel better, that's about where I was on day one of testing. It took me a bit to retrain my fingers from a mSorc rotation. You are certainly missing a big chunk (bigger than you would think) of DPS because you dont have a VMA bow. With a VMA bow, hail does close to 20% of your DPS. Your sunder uptime is probably suffering because you arent opening with a heavy attack. I personally always buff deadly cloak and hurricane pre fight, and then charge in with a HA into trap. That means sunder is up right at the beginning of the fight. As to your rotation, my advice is do whatever you can to keep it circular and simple. In the beginning, nothing wrong in my opinion with putting HA in front of every skill on your front bar. It's what you do anyway if you are low on stam. Once you have that perfect, you can replace a few with Light Attacks to speed it up a bit.

Nos's Sorc Build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/293952/noss-aoe-king-stam-sorc-build-hotr-dlc-ready/p1

Nos's DK build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274101/noss-poison-knight-stamdk-build-db-ready/p1?new=1

Thanks for the shoutout!

Yeah those builds are updated, so OP can use them as guidance. Keep in mind that CP optimization is for solo play and changes drastically depending on group composition.

As you can see in his sig, he doesnt stop at those two. Also why I keep him on speed dial. Haha

Morning guys,

Of course I know Nos, actually I am following his Poison Knight build from Tamriel Foundry's site, he has already answered on some of my questions there.

He is using TFS on many of his stamina builds, which of course is an awesome set but I don't see my shelf getting the purple jewels any time soon so I'll stick to Sunder+ NMG or Hundings and working on getting the vMA bow. Especially now that retrait is coming I think it will not be to hard to get.

Nice tip to open up with a HA-Trap, I haven't thought about that, anyway thank you all for your help guys!!!

Real quick always remember spriggan is an option. 100% uptime no fuss with heavies. But if you run sunder and nmg I know alot of groups that wouldn't mind having you lol

I was running Spriggan's before, it's always an option but i don't think it will be useful in a trial's environment, Sunder+NMG will be more beneficial for the group.

Oh yeah of course. I'm just saying if it's a low Stam group or a 4 man/solo spriggan is better than those. If it is for a trial with a lot of Stam. You'd only be wearing one as these sets are shared around the Stam as to not lower the dps of one user by too much. So you'd use sunder hundings or nmg with vicious/automaton/war mahcine etc....

Now that you've mentioned it I was wondering.

Retrait is coming, TCrystals will be available through vet dungeons runs. In that case and with an available pool of sets: NMG, Hundings, Spriggan's and Sunderflame which is going to be the optimal sets combination if the monster set will be Kra'gh or Veli?

cpuScientist · September 2017

wesmont65 wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

A small update.

I am currently running 5 NMG, 5 Sunder (3 purple jewels 2 body divines), 2 gold NMG daggers -Infused and Sharp and 1 Kra'gh helm, 1 Sharp gold NMG bow which I'll change to Nirn. Most pieces are still purple, 520cp.

Test on a 3k dummy, 24.4k dps with a 94% uptime on Sunderflame.

Front bar: Rending, Claw, Trap, Cloak, FoO
Back bar: Hail, Noxious Breath, Caltrops, Injection, Vigor

I usually do 3-4 HA on my front bar, so I was wondering if it's better to put Armaments on my bar instead of Vigor or Noxious and also how do you sustain 99% uptime on Sunder and lastly can you please tell me your blue cp distribution?

If you are asking me, I typically play stam sorc not stam DK. Been messing with it, but havent brought it into trials in a while. I will give a shout out to my buddy @hedna123b14_ESO (Nos) for builds and CP distribution. He does way more testing than me. Dude has killed my target dummy way more times than I have. He is also the reason there are now 6 of them in my house. Haha.

Optimal CP does depend on your group to some degree, mostly because you need to know what you are getting in terms of armor penetration. I believe all his calculations are based on the assumption that you have all the usual debuffs in play with good uptimes.

If it makes you feel better, that's about where I was on day one of testing. It took me a bit to retrain my fingers from a mSorc rotation. You are certainly missing a big chunk (bigger than you would think) of DPS because you dont have a VMA bow. With a VMA bow, hail does close to 20% of your DPS. Your sunder uptime is probably suffering because you arent opening with a heavy attack. I personally always buff deadly cloak and hurricane pre fight, and then charge in with a HA into trap. That means sunder is up right at the beginning of the fight. As to your rotation, my advice is do whatever you can to keep it circular and simple. In the beginning, nothing wrong in my opinion with putting HA in front of every skill on your front bar. It's what you do anyway if you are low on stam. Once you have that perfect, you can replace a few with Light Attacks to speed it up a bit.

Nos's Sorc Build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/293952/noss-aoe-king-stam-sorc-build-hotr-dlc-ready/p1

Nos's DK build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274101/noss-poison-knight-stamdk-build-db-ready/p1?new=1

Thanks for the shoutout!

Yeah those builds are updated, so OP can use them as guidance. Keep in mind that CP optimization is for solo play and changes drastically depending on group composition.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

A small update.

I am currently running 5 NMG, 5 Sunder (3 purple jewels 2 body divines), 2 gold NMG daggers -Infused and Sharp and 1 Kra'gh helm, 1 Sharp gold NMG bow which I'll change to Nirn. Most pieces are still purple, 520cp.

Test on a 3k dummy, 24.4k dps with a 94% uptime on Sunderflame.

Front bar: Rending, Claw, Trap, Cloak, FoO
Back bar: Hail, Noxious Breath, Caltrops, Injection, Vigor

I usually do 3-4 HA on my front bar, so I was wondering if it's better to put Armaments on my bar instead of Vigor or Noxious and also how do you sustain 99% uptime on Sunder and lastly can you please tell me your blue cp distribution?

If you are asking me, I typically play stam sorc not stam DK. Been messing with it, but havent brought it into trials in a while. I will give a shout out to my buddy @hedna123b14_ESO (Nos) for builds and CP distribution. He does way more testing than me. Dude has killed my target dummy way more times than I have. He is also the reason there are now 6 of them in my house. Haha.

Optimal CP does depend on your group to some degree, mostly because you need to know what you are getting in terms of armor penetration. I believe all his calculations are based on the assumption that you have all the usual debuffs in play with good uptimes.

If it makes you feel better, that's about where I was on day one of testing. It took me a bit to retrain my fingers from a mSorc rotation. You are certainly missing a big chunk (bigger than you would think) of DPS because you dont have a VMA bow. With a VMA bow, hail does close to 20% of your DPS. Your sunder uptime is probably suffering because you arent opening with a heavy attack. I personally always buff deadly cloak and hurricane pre fight, and then charge in with a HA into trap. That means sunder is up right at the beginning of the fight. As to your rotation, my advice is do whatever you can to keep it circular and simple. In the beginning, nothing wrong in my opinion with putting HA in front of every skill on your front bar. It's what you do anyway if you are low on stam. Once you have that perfect, you can replace a few with Light Attacks to speed it up a bit.

Nos's Sorc Build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/293952/noss-aoe-king-stam-sorc-build-hotr-dlc-ready/p1

Nos's DK build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274101/noss-poison-knight-stamdk-build-db-ready/p1?new=1

Thanks for the shoutout!

Yeah those builds are updated, so OP can use them as guidance. Keep in mind that CP optimization is for solo play and changes drastically depending on group composition.

As you can see in his sig, he doesnt stop at those two. Also why I keep him on speed dial. Haha

Morning guys,

Of course I know Nos, actually I am following his Poison Knight build from Tamriel Foundry's site, he has already answered on some of my questions there.

He is using TFS on many of his stamina builds, which of course is an awesome set but I don't see my shelf getting the purple jewels any time soon so I'll stick to Sunder+ NMG or Hundings and working on getting the vMA bow. Especially now that retrait is coming I think it will not be to hard to get.

Nice tip to open up with a HA-Trap, I haven't thought about that, anyway thank you all for your help guys!!!

Real quick always remember spriggan is an option. 100% uptime no fuss with heavies. But if you run sunder and nmg I know alot of groups that wouldn't mind having you lol

I was running Spriggan's before, it's always an option but i don't think it will be useful in a trial's environment, Sunder+NMG will be more beneficial for the group.

Oh yeah of course. I'm just saying if it's a low Stam group or a 4 man/solo spriggan is better than those. If it is for a trial with a lot of Stam. You'd only be wearing one as these sets are shared around the Stam as to not lower the dps of one user by too much. So you'd use sunder hundings or nmg with vicious/automaton/war mahcine etc....

Now that you've mentioned it I was wondering.

Retrait is coming, TCrystals will be available through vet dungeons runs. In that case and with an available pool of sets: NMG, Hundings, Spriggan's and Sunderflame which is going to be the optimal sets combination if the monster set will be Kra'gh or Veli?

For Stam it always depends on the group. If they have alot of Stam then quickly coordinate before the trial what Stam is wearing what. Then everyone go from there. Veli will be better if there is cleave potential and if the pen cap is achieved. Kragh does comparable to a little more single target than veli as does Selene so if no cleave and just single target and no pen go with those. Some runs you need TFS hundings some NMG vo or sunder hundings. Stam users gotta stay fluent.

The only time spriggan is better is if it is only you on Stam or it's solo. If not use sunder or the like.

wesmont65 · September 2017

cpuScientist wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

A small update.

I am currently running 5 NMG, 5 Sunder (3 purple jewels 2 body divines), 2 gold NMG daggers -Infused and Sharp and 1 Kra'gh helm, 1 Sharp gold NMG bow which I'll change to Nirn. Most pieces are still purple, 520cp.

Test on a 3k dummy, 24.4k dps with a 94% uptime on Sunderflame.

Front bar: Rending, Claw, Trap, Cloak, FoO
Back bar: Hail, Noxious Breath, Caltrops, Injection, Vigor

I usually do 3-4 HA on my front bar, so I was wondering if it's better to put Armaments on my bar instead of Vigor or Noxious and also how do you sustain 99% uptime on Sunder and lastly can you please tell me your blue cp distribution?

If you are asking me, I typically play stam sorc not stam DK. Been messing with it, but havent brought it into trials in a while. I will give a shout out to my buddy @hedna123b14_ESO (Nos) for builds and CP distribution. He does way more testing than me. Dude has killed my target dummy way more times than I have. He is also the reason there are now 6 of them in my house. Haha.

Optimal CP does depend on your group to some degree, mostly because you need to know what you are getting in terms of armor penetration. I believe all his calculations are based on the assumption that you have all the usual debuffs in play with good uptimes.

If it makes you feel better, that's about where I was on day one of testing. It took me a bit to retrain my fingers from a mSorc rotation. You are certainly missing a big chunk (bigger than you would think) of DPS because you dont have a VMA bow. With a VMA bow, hail does close to 20% of your DPS. Your sunder uptime is probably suffering because you arent opening with a heavy attack. I personally always buff deadly cloak and hurricane pre fight, and then charge in with a HA into trap. That means sunder is up right at the beginning of the fight. As to your rotation, my advice is do whatever you can to keep it circular and simple. In the beginning, nothing wrong in my opinion with putting HA in front of every skill on your front bar. It's what you do anyway if you are low on stam. Once you have that perfect, you can replace a few with Light Attacks to speed it up a bit.

Nos's Sorc Build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/293952/noss-aoe-king-stam-sorc-build-hotr-dlc-ready/p1

Nos's DK build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274101/noss-poison-knight-stamdk-build-db-ready/p1?new=1

Thanks for the shoutout!

Yeah those builds are updated, so OP can use them as guidance. Keep in mind that CP optimization is for solo play and changes drastically depending on group composition.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

A small update.

I am currently running 5 NMG, 5 Sunder (3 purple jewels 2 body divines), 2 gold NMG daggers -Infused and Sharp and 1 Kra'gh helm, 1 Sharp gold NMG bow which I'll change to Nirn. Most pieces are still purple, 520cp.

Test on a 3k dummy, 24.4k dps with a 94% uptime on Sunderflame.

Front bar: Rending, Claw, Trap, Cloak, FoO
Back bar: Hail, Noxious Breath, Caltrops, Injection, Vigor

I usually do 3-4 HA on my front bar, so I was wondering if it's better to put Armaments on my bar instead of Vigor or Noxious and also how do you sustain 99% uptime on Sunder and lastly can you please tell me your blue cp distribution?

If you are asking me, I typically play stam sorc not stam DK. Been messing with it, but havent brought it into trials in a while. I will give a shout out to my buddy @hedna123b14_ESO (Nos) for builds and CP distribution. He does way more testing than me. Dude has killed my target dummy way more times than I have. He is also the reason there are now 6 of them in my house. Haha.

Optimal CP does depend on your group to some degree, mostly because you need to know what you are getting in terms of armor penetration. I believe all his calculations are based on the assumption that you have all the usual debuffs in play with good uptimes.

If it makes you feel better, that's about where I was on day one of testing. It took me a bit to retrain my fingers from a mSorc rotation. You are certainly missing a big chunk (bigger than you would think) of DPS because you dont have a VMA bow. With a VMA bow, hail does close to 20% of your DPS. Your sunder uptime is probably suffering because you arent opening with a heavy attack. I personally always buff deadly cloak and hurricane pre fight, and then charge in with a HA into trap. That means sunder is up right at the beginning of the fight. As to your rotation, my advice is do whatever you can to keep it circular and simple. In the beginning, nothing wrong in my opinion with putting HA in front of every skill on your front bar. It's what you do anyway if you are low on stam. Once you have that perfect, you can replace a few with Light Attacks to speed it up a bit.

Nos's Sorc Build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/293952/noss-aoe-king-stam-sorc-build-hotr-dlc-ready/p1

Nos's DK build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274101/noss-poison-knight-stamdk-build-db-ready/p1?new=1

Thanks for the shoutout!

Yeah those builds are updated, so OP can use them as guidance. Keep in mind that CP optimization is for solo play and changes drastically depending on group composition.

As you can see in his sig, he doesnt stop at those two. Also why I keep him on speed dial. Haha

Morning guys,

Of course I know Nos, actually I am following his Poison Knight build from Tamriel Foundry's site, he has already answered on some of my questions there.

He is using TFS on many of his stamina builds, which of course is an awesome set but I don't see my shelf getting the purple jewels any time soon so I'll stick to Sunder+ NMG or Hundings and working on getting the vMA bow. Especially now that retrait is coming I think it will not be to hard to get.

Nice tip to open up with a HA-Trap, I haven't thought about that, anyway thank you all for your help guys!!!

Real quick always remember spriggan is an option. 100% uptime no fuss with heavies. But if you run sunder and nmg I know alot of groups that wouldn't mind having you lol

I was running Spriggan's before, it's always an option but i don't think it will be useful in a trial's environment, Sunder+NMG will be more beneficial for the group.

Oh yeah of course. I'm just saying if it's a low Stam group or a 4 man/solo spriggan is better than those. If it is for a trial with a lot of Stam. You'd only be wearing one as these sets are shared around the Stam as to not lower the dps of one user by too much. So you'd use sunder hundings or nmg with vicious/automaton/war mahcine etc....

Now that you've mentioned it I was wondering.

Retrait is coming, TCrystals will be available through vet dungeons runs. In that case and with an available pool of sets: NMG, Hundings, Spriggan's and Sunderflame which is going to be the optimal sets combination if the monster set will be Kra'gh or Veli?

For Stam it always depends on the group. If they have alot of Stam then quickly coordinate before the trial what Stam is wearing what. Then everyone go from there. Veli will be better if there is cleave potential and if the pen cap is achieved. Kragh does comparable to a little more single target than veli as does Selene so if no cleave and just single target and no pen go with those. Some runs you need TFS hundings some NMG vo or sunder hundings. Stam users gotta stay fluent.

The only time spriggan is better is if it is only you on Stam or it's solo. If not use sunder or the like.

Ok but what about 4 man vet dungeon runs? Actually I was referring to those situations, which will be the best combination of sets then?

Oreyn_Bearclaw · September 2017

wesmont65 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

A small update.

I am currently running 5 NMG, 5 Sunder (3 purple jewels 2 body divines), 2 gold NMG daggers -Infused and Sharp and 1 Kra'gh helm, 1 Sharp gold NMG bow which I'll change to Nirn. Most pieces are still purple, 520cp.

Test on a 3k dummy, 24.4k dps with a 94% uptime on Sunderflame.

Front bar: Rending, Claw, Trap, Cloak, FoO
Back bar: Hail, Noxious Breath, Caltrops, Injection, Vigor

I usually do 3-4 HA on my front bar, so I was wondering if it's better to put Armaments on my bar instead of Vigor or Noxious and also how do you sustain 99% uptime on Sunder and lastly can you please tell me your blue cp distribution?

If you are asking me, I typically play stam sorc not stam DK. Been messing with it, but havent brought it into trials in a while. I will give a shout out to my buddy @hedna123b14_ESO (Nos) for builds and CP distribution. He does way more testing than me. Dude has killed my target dummy way more times than I have. He is also the reason there are now 6 of them in my house. Haha.

Optimal CP does depend on your group to some degree, mostly because you need to know what you are getting in terms of armor penetration. I believe all his calculations are based on the assumption that you have all the usual debuffs in play with good uptimes.

If it makes you feel better, that's about where I was on day one of testing. It took me a bit to retrain my fingers from a mSorc rotation. You are certainly missing a big chunk (bigger than you would think) of DPS because you dont have a VMA bow. With a VMA bow, hail does close to 20% of your DPS. Your sunder uptime is probably suffering because you arent opening with a heavy attack. I personally always buff deadly cloak and hurricane pre fight, and then charge in with a HA into trap. That means sunder is up right at the beginning of the fight. As to your rotation, my advice is do whatever you can to keep it circular and simple. In the beginning, nothing wrong in my opinion with putting HA in front of every skill on your front bar. It's what you do anyway if you are low on stam. Once you have that perfect, you can replace a few with Light Attacks to speed it up a bit.

Nos's Sorc Build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/293952/noss-aoe-king-stam-sorc-build-hotr-dlc-ready/p1

Nos's DK build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274101/noss-poison-knight-stamdk-build-db-ready/p1?new=1

Thanks for the shoutout!

Yeah those builds are updated, so OP can use them as guidance. Keep in mind that CP optimization is for solo play and changes drastically depending on group composition.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

A small update.

I am currently running 5 NMG, 5 Sunder (3 purple jewels 2 body divines), 2 gold NMG daggers -Infused and Sharp and 1 Kra'gh helm, 1 Sharp gold NMG bow which I'll change to Nirn. Most pieces are still purple, 520cp.

Test on a 3k dummy, 24.4k dps with a 94% uptime on Sunderflame.

Front bar: Rending, Claw, Trap, Cloak, FoO
Back bar: Hail, Noxious Breath, Caltrops, Injection, Vigor

I usually do 3-4 HA on my front bar, so I was wondering if it's better to put Armaments on my bar instead of Vigor or Noxious and also how do you sustain 99% uptime on Sunder and lastly can you please tell me your blue cp distribution?

If you are asking me, I typically play stam sorc not stam DK. Been messing with it, but havent brought it into trials in a while. I will give a shout out to my buddy @hedna123b14_ESO (Nos) for builds and CP distribution. He does way more testing than me. Dude has killed my target dummy way more times than I have. He is also the reason there are now 6 of them in my house. Haha.

Optimal CP does depend on your group to some degree, mostly because you need to know what you are getting in terms of armor penetration. I believe all his calculations are based on the assumption that you have all the usual debuffs in play with good uptimes.

If it makes you feel better, that's about where I was on day one of testing. It took me a bit to retrain my fingers from a mSorc rotation. You are certainly missing a big chunk (bigger than you would think) of DPS because you dont have a VMA bow. With a VMA bow, hail does close to 20% of your DPS. Your sunder uptime is probably suffering because you arent opening with a heavy attack. I personally always buff deadly cloak and hurricane pre fight, and then charge in with a HA into trap. That means sunder is up right at the beginning of the fight. As to your rotation, my advice is do whatever you can to keep it circular and simple. In the beginning, nothing wrong in my opinion with putting HA in front of every skill on your front bar. It's what you do anyway if you are low on stam. Once you have that perfect, you can replace a few with Light Attacks to speed it up a bit.

Nos's Sorc Build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/293952/noss-aoe-king-stam-sorc-build-hotr-dlc-ready/p1

Nos's DK build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274101/noss-poison-knight-stamdk-build-db-ready/p1?new=1

Thanks for the shoutout!

Yeah those builds are updated, so OP can use them as guidance. Keep in mind that CP optimization is for solo play and changes drastically depending on group composition.

As you can see in his sig, he doesnt stop at those two. Also why I keep him on speed dial. Haha

Morning guys,

Of course I know Nos, actually I am following his Poison Knight build from Tamriel Foundry's site, he has already answered on some of my questions there.

He is using TFS on many of his stamina builds, which of course is an awesome set but I don't see my shelf getting the purple jewels any time soon so I'll stick to Sunder+ NMG or Hundings and working on getting the vMA bow. Especially now that retrait is coming I think it will not be to hard to get.

Nice tip to open up with a HA-Trap, I haven't thought about that, anyway thank you all for your help guys!!!

TFS is a nice set to have in your bag, but it really only shines in solo stuff or trash fights. Sunder + NMG will make you very popular in a raid, and you can break 50k ST with it on certain fights. Its not unlike Spriggans (or is it spinners, I always confuse them). They are both good ways to get yourself close to the pen cap when you arent getting help, but in a trial boss fight, they are both bad in a proper group.

Very few people wear sunderflame, so good chance there wont be a conflict with anyone. A lot more people run NM, which makes it a good idea to also carry hundings. Since they are craftable, weapons are easy. That way if another DPS only has NM, you can say have at it and go Sunder/Hundings and pull a bit more personal DPS. If for some reason both those sets are covered, then I would suggest Alkosh or VO on the jewerly and body. The point is that you really want to be able to walk into a raid and say, what do you need me to run.

I carry Jewelry and two body pieces (always belt and gloves to keep it simple) of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM (soon automaton as well, just need another ring). I then carry DW and Chest, Pants, Boots, of Hundings, NM and VO. This allows me to run just about any combo I can think of, although Nos usually doesnt let me take off my sunderflame. Haha

In 4 man stuff, I think it is hard to beat TFS/NM/ Veli if you are the only stamboy. If you dont have TFS, spriggans is a reasonably substitute. You could also go VO/NM with the Lover stone (warrior always in trials). Your DPS will be more than adequate and resources are a non issue.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · September 2017

Delete double post

cpuScientist · September 2017

wesmont65 wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

A small update.

I am currently running 5 NMG, 5 Sunder (3 purple jewels 2 body divines), 2 gold NMG daggers -Infused and Sharp and 1 Kra'gh helm, 1 Sharp gold NMG bow which I'll change to Nirn. Most pieces are still purple, 520cp.

Test on a 3k dummy, 24.4k dps with a 94% uptime on Sunderflame.

Front bar: Rending, Claw, Trap, Cloak, FoO
Back bar: Hail, Noxious Breath, Caltrops, Injection, Vigor

I usually do 3-4 HA on my front bar, so I was wondering if it's better to put Armaments on my bar instead of Vigor or Noxious and also how do you sustain 99% uptime on Sunder and lastly can you please tell me your blue cp distribution?

If you are asking me, I typically play stam sorc not stam DK. Been messing with it, but havent brought it into trials in a while. I will give a shout out to my buddy @hedna123b14_ESO (Nos) for builds and CP distribution. He does way more testing than me. Dude has killed my target dummy way more times than I have. He is also the reason there are now 6 of them in my house. Haha.

Optimal CP does depend on your group to some degree, mostly because you need to know what you are getting in terms of armor penetration. I believe all his calculations are based on the assumption that you have all the usual debuffs in play with good uptimes.

If it makes you feel better, that's about where I was on day one of testing. It took me a bit to retrain my fingers from a mSorc rotation. You are certainly missing a big chunk (bigger than you would think) of DPS because you dont have a VMA bow. With a VMA bow, hail does close to 20% of your DPS. Your sunder uptime is probably suffering because you arent opening with a heavy attack. I personally always buff deadly cloak and hurricane pre fight, and then charge in with a HA into trap. That means sunder is up right at the beginning of the fight. As to your rotation, my advice is do whatever you can to keep it circular and simple. In the beginning, nothing wrong in my opinion with putting HA in front of every skill on your front bar. It's what you do anyway if you are low on stam. Once you have that perfect, you can replace a few with Light Attacks to speed it up a bit.

Nos's Sorc Build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/293952/noss-aoe-king-stam-sorc-build-hotr-dlc-ready/p1

Nos's DK build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274101/noss-poison-knight-stamdk-build-db-ready/p1?new=1

Thanks for the shoutout!

Yeah those builds are updated, so OP can use them as guidance. Keep in mind that CP optimization is for solo play and changes drastically depending on group composition.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

A small update.

I am currently running 5 NMG, 5 Sunder (3 purple jewels 2 body divines), 2 gold NMG daggers -Infused and Sharp and 1 Kra'gh helm, 1 Sharp gold NMG bow which I'll change to Nirn. Most pieces are still purple, 520cp.

Test on a 3k dummy, 24.4k dps with a 94% uptime on Sunderflame.

Front bar: Rending, Claw, Trap, Cloak, FoO
Back bar: Hail, Noxious Breath, Caltrops, Injection, Vigor

I usually do 3-4 HA on my front bar, so I was wondering if it's better to put Armaments on my bar instead of Vigor or Noxious and also how do you sustain 99% uptime on Sunder and lastly can you please tell me your blue cp distribution?

If you are asking me, I typically play stam sorc not stam DK. Been messing with it, but havent brought it into trials in a while. I will give a shout out to my buddy @hedna123b14_ESO (Nos) for builds and CP distribution. He does way more testing than me. Dude has killed my target dummy way more times than I have. He is also the reason there are now 6 of them in my house. Haha.

Optimal CP does depend on your group to some degree, mostly because you need to know what you are getting in terms of armor penetration. I believe all his calculations are based on the assumption that you have all the usual debuffs in play with good uptimes.

If it makes you feel better, that's about where I was on day one of testing. It took me a bit to retrain my fingers from a mSorc rotation. You are certainly missing a big chunk (bigger than you would think) of DPS because you dont have a VMA bow. With a VMA bow, hail does close to 20% of your DPS. Your sunder uptime is probably suffering because you arent opening with a heavy attack. I personally always buff deadly cloak and hurricane pre fight, and then charge in with a HA into trap. That means sunder is up right at the beginning of the fight. As to your rotation, my advice is do whatever you can to keep it circular and simple. In the beginning, nothing wrong in my opinion with putting HA in front of every skill on your front bar. It's what you do anyway if you are low on stam. Once you have that perfect, you can replace a few with Light Attacks to speed it up a bit.

Nos's Sorc Build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/293952/noss-aoe-king-stam-sorc-build-hotr-dlc-ready/p1

Nos's DK build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274101/noss-poison-knight-stamdk-build-db-ready/p1?new=1

Thanks for the shoutout!

Yeah those builds are updated, so OP can use them as guidance. Keep in mind that CP optimization is for solo play and changes drastically depending on group composition.

As you can see in his sig, he doesnt stop at those two. Also why I keep him on speed dial. Haha

Morning guys,

Of course I know Nos, actually I am following his Poison Knight build from Tamriel Foundry's site, he has already answered on some of my questions there.

He is using TFS on many of his stamina builds, which of course is an awesome set but I don't see my shelf getting the purple jewels any time soon so I'll stick to Sunder+ NMG or Hundings and working on getting the vMA bow. Especially now that retrait is coming I think it will not be to hard to get.

Nice tip to open up with a HA-Trap, I haven't thought about that, anyway thank you all for your help guys!!!

Real quick always remember spriggan is an option. 100% uptime no fuss with heavies. But if you run sunder and nmg I know alot of groups that wouldn't mind having you lol

I was running Spriggan's before, it's always an option but i don't think it will be useful in a trial's environment, Sunder+NMG will be more beneficial for the group.

Oh yeah of course. I'm just saying if it's a low Stam group or a 4 man/solo spriggan is better than those. If it is for a trial with a lot of Stam. You'd only be wearing one as these sets are shared around the Stam as to not lower the dps of one user by too much. So you'd use sunder hundings or nmg with vicious/automaton/war mahcine etc....

Now that you've mentioned it I was wondering.

Retrait is coming, TCrystals will be available through vet dungeons runs. In that case and with an available pool of sets: NMG, Hundings, Spriggan's and Sunderflame which is going to be the optimal sets combination if the monster set will be Kra'gh or Veli?

For Stam it always depends on the group. If they have alot of Stam then quickly coordinate before the trial what Stam is wearing what. Then everyone go from there. Veli will be better if there is cleave potential and if the pen cap is achieved. Kragh does comparable to a little more single target than veli as does Selene so if no cleave and just single target and no pen go with those. Some runs you need TFS hundings some NMG vo or sunder hundings. Stam users gotta stay fluent.

The only time spriggan is better is if it is only you on Stam or it's solo. If not use sunder or the like.

Ok but what about 4 man vet dungeon runs? Actually I was referring to those situations, which will be the best combination of sets then?

For 4 man's with a healer and tank even if you have 2 Stam DPS, I'd rather go two fang on both of em. As sunder is only active on the mob or boss that was heavy attacked. You want these other pen sets for when there are about 4 or so stam DPS, so go TFS or spriggan if you don't have it. With hundings or whatever other set you have automaton war machine etc. And use kragh in that case.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · September 2017

cpuScientist wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

A small update.

I am currently running 5 NMG, 5 Sunder (3 purple jewels 2 body divines), 2 gold NMG daggers -Infused and Sharp and 1 Kra'gh helm, 1 Sharp gold NMG bow which I'll change to Nirn. Most pieces are still purple, 520cp.

Test on a 3k dummy, 24.4k dps with a 94% uptime on Sunderflame.

Front bar: Rending, Claw, Trap, Cloak, FoO
Back bar: Hail, Noxious Breath, Caltrops, Injection, Vigor

I usually do 3-4 HA on my front bar, so I was wondering if it's better to put Armaments on my bar instead of Vigor or Noxious and also how do you sustain 99% uptime on Sunder and lastly can you please tell me your blue cp distribution?

If you are asking me, I typically play stam sorc not stam DK. Been messing with it, but havent brought it into trials in a while. I will give a shout out to my buddy @hedna123b14_ESO (Nos) for builds and CP distribution. He does way more testing than me. Dude has killed my target dummy way more times than I have. He is also the reason there are now 6 of them in my house. Haha.

Optimal CP does depend on your group to some degree, mostly because you need to know what you are getting in terms of armor penetration. I believe all his calculations are based on the assumption that you have all the usual debuffs in play with good uptimes.

If it makes you feel better, that's about where I was on day one of testing. It took me a bit to retrain my fingers from a mSorc rotation. You are certainly missing a big chunk (bigger than you would think) of DPS because you dont have a VMA bow. With a VMA bow, hail does close to 20% of your DPS. Your sunder uptime is probably suffering because you arent opening with a heavy attack. I personally always buff deadly cloak and hurricane pre fight, and then charge in with a HA into trap. That means sunder is up right at the beginning of the fight. As to your rotation, my advice is do whatever you can to keep it circular and simple. In the beginning, nothing wrong in my opinion with putting HA in front of every skill on your front bar. It's what you do anyway if you are low on stam. Once you have that perfect, you can replace a few with Light Attacks to speed it up a bit.

Nos's Sorc Build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/293952/noss-aoe-king-stam-sorc-build-hotr-dlc-ready/p1

Nos's DK build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274101/noss-poison-knight-stamdk-build-db-ready/p1?new=1

Thanks for the shoutout!

Yeah those builds are updated, so OP can use them as guidance. Keep in mind that CP optimization is for solo play and changes drastically depending on group composition.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

wesmont65 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I run sunderflame in my raid on my stam sorc. The answer to your question is simply, it depends. Any raid worth anything these days is going to have 4-5 stamina. Sunderflame, Nightmothers, and Alkosh, need to be worn by someone, likely 2 need to be wearing Alkosh. TFS is very strong solo, but in a well built raid, you should not be running it on boss fights (still good in trash). You should never run Spriggans in an optimized raid. It does nothing for your group. You can easily get to the pen cap with group oriented sets, which should be your goal.

If nobody else has NM in your group, or when solo, it's your best bet. If somebody else is running it, than Hundings, Alkosh or VO are all really strong options. Because Hundings and NM are crafted, it makes getting the weapons a non-issue, so it's easy to pair with sunderflame. That is what I do. I carry both NM and hundings at all times. If someone else is running NM, I go hundings as its better DPS. If nobody else has NM, then I pair that with sunder. One person can keep both sets up in the high 90s. No reason to double up on either (they dont stack), but I generally think its better to spread the debuff sets around a bit in your group unless you have someone that is just clearly way out in front of everyone else. In that case, let them run full damage sets.

For example, if you had 4 stam DPS, you could have 1. Sunder/Hundings, 2. VO/Nightmothers, 3+4 Alkosh/Hundings. That covers all your sets, and doesnt require any noncrafted DW weapons. If you have stamblades or stamplars, War Machine becomes another option with their low cost ultis, but you will still want to cover the other sets first and foremost. If you have at least 2 stam DKs, you probably want someone running Morag Tong as well (can be an off tank). In truth, I carry Front bar weapons of NM, Hundings, VO, and Body (jewelry) sets of Sunder, Alkosh, VO, and WM so i can run any combo I need.

From Last week, running 5 Sunder, 5 Hundings, 2 Veli. 99% uptime on sunder. Only reason its not 100 is my AOE DoTs hit the boss a hair before my HA does. Once its up, it stays up. As @cpuScientist pointed out, the actual flame proc is garbage, but thats not why we run it. You cant see it in that parse, but I think it was like 400 dps.

51.3K ST, 54K total, 99% sunder uptime. Also, I believe Nirn is best bow trait for back bar for what its worth. Front bar is infused and precise dagger.

A small update.

I am currently running 5 NMG, 5 Sunder (3 purple jewels 2 body divines), 2 gold NMG daggers -Infused and Sharp and 1 Kra'gh helm, 1 Sharp gold NMG bow which I'll change to Nirn. Most pieces are still purple, 520cp.

Test on a 3k dummy, 24.4k dps with a 94% uptime on Sunderflame.

Front bar: Rending, Claw, Trap, Cloak, FoO
Back bar: Hail, Noxious Breath, Caltrops, Injection, Vigor

I usually do 3-4 HA on my front bar, so I was wondering if it's better to put Armaments on my bar instead of Vigor or Noxious and also how do you sustain 99% uptime on Sunder and lastly can you please tell me your blue cp distribution?

If you are asking me, I typically play stam sorc not stam DK. Been messing with it, but havent brought it into trials in a while. I will give a shout out to my buddy @hedna123b14_ESO (Nos) for builds and CP distribution. He does way more testing than me. Dude has killed my target dummy way more times than I have. He is also the reason there are now 6 of them in my house. Haha.

Optimal CP does depend on your group to some degree, mostly because you need to know what you are getting in terms of armor penetration. I believe all his calculations are based on the assumption that you have all the usual debuffs in play with good uptimes.

If it makes you feel better, that's about where I was on day one of testing. It took me a bit to retrain my fingers from a mSorc rotation. You are certainly missing a big chunk (bigger than you would think) of DPS because you dont have a VMA bow. With a VMA bow, hail does close to 20% of your DPS. Your sunder uptime is probably suffering because you arent opening with a heavy attack. I personally always buff deadly cloak and hurricane pre fight, and then charge in with a HA into trap. That means sunder is up right at the beginning of the fight. As to your rotation, my advice is do whatever you can to keep it circular and simple. In the beginning, nothing wrong in my opinion with putting HA in front of every skill on your front bar. It's what you do anyway if you are low on stam. Once you have that perfect, you can replace a few with Light Attacks to speed it up a bit.

Nos's Sorc Build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/293952/noss-aoe-king-stam-sorc-build-hotr-dlc-ready/p1

Nos's DK build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274101/noss-poison-knight-stamdk-build-db-ready/p1?new=1

Thanks for the shoutout!

Yeah those builds are updated, so OP can use them as guidance. Keep in mind that CP optimization is for solo play and changes drastically depending on group composition.

As you can see in his sig, he doesnt stop at those two. Also why I keep him on speed dial. Haha

Morning guys,

Of course I know Nos, actually I am following his Poison Knight build from Tamriel Foundry's site, he has already answered on some of my questions there.

He is using TFS on many of his stamina builds, which of course is an awesome set but I don't see my shelf getting the purple jewels any time soon so I'll stick to Sunder+ NMG or Hundings and working on getting the vMA bow. Especially now that retrait is coming I think it will not be to hard to get.

Nice tip to open up with a HA-Trap, I haven't thought about that, anyway thank you all for your help guys!!!

Real quick always remember spriggan is an option. 100% uptime no fuss with heavies. But if you run sunder and nmg I know alot of groups that wouldn't mind having you lol

I was running Spriggan's before, it's always an option but i don't think it will be useful in a trial's environment, Sunder+NMG will be more beneficial for the group.

Oh yeah of course. I'm just saying if it's a low Stam group or a 4 man/solo spriggan is better than those. If it is for a trial with a lot of Stam. You'd only be wearing one as these sets are shared around the Stam as to not lower the dps of one user by too much. So you'd use sunder hundings or nmg with vicious/automaton/war mahcine etc....

Now that you've mentioned it I was wondering.

Retrait is coming, TCrystals will be available through vet dungeons runs. In that case and with an available pool of sets: NMG, Hundings, Spriggan's and Sunderflame which is going to be the optimal sets combination if the monster set will be Kra'gh or Veli?

For Stam it always depends on the group. If they have alot of Stam then quickly coordinate before the trial what Stam is wearing what. Then everyone go from there. Veli will be better if there is cleave potential and if the pen cap is achieved. Kragh does comparable to a little more single target than veli as does Selene so if no cleave and just single target and no pen go with those. Some runs you need TFS hundings some NMG vo or sunder hundings. Stam users gotta stay fluent.

The only time spriggan is better is if it is only you on Stam or it's solo. If not use sunder or the like.

Ok but what about 4 man vet dungeon runs? Actually I was referring to those situations, which will be the best combination of sets then?

For 4 man's with a healer and tank even if you have 2 Stam DPS, I'd rather go two fang on both of em. As sunder is only active on the mob or boss that was heavy attacked. You want these other pen sets for when there are about 4 or so stam DPS, so go TFS or spriggan if you don't have it. With hundings or whatever other set you have automaton war machine etc. And use kragh in that case.

My only pushback is that I still prefer veli. Certainly a judgement call. I really dont like switching gear mid four man content. I think Veli will ultimately speed up your trash fights more than krags will speed up your boss fights, especially considering most 4 man bosses have more than their share off adds. On a handful of final boss fights that I know to be pure single target, I will definitely switch to krags, but if I could only choose one, it would be veli. On all my stam toons, the number 8 key is bound to veli and the 9 key is bound to krags. Alpha gear is life. haha

hedna123b14_ESO · September 2017

Veli does multiple hits on several bosses in the game which is why its BiS