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BiS? How is BiS arrived at?

generalmyrick
generalmyrick
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Who or what decides what is BiS? Is it a specific stat or resource or what? Like, does the most famous person come up with bis? or? someone please clear this up.
"The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing the choice between:

Knowledge, freedom, uncertainty and the brutal truths of reality (red pill)
Security, happiness, beauty, and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)"

Insight to Agree to Awesome Ratio = 1:6.04:2.76 as of 1/25/2019

Compared to people that I've ignored = I am 18% more insightful, 20% less agreeable, and 88% more awesome.
  • Mojmir
    Mojmir
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    Number crunching,minimum loss with maximum gain.
    Also,look for the hardest sets to get best trait in due to RNG lol
    Raising floors and lower ceilings by zos standards has created an iron maiden.
    No matter how well you played,when the game is over,the king and pawn go back in the same box.
    Be careful what you ask for from zo$, you always get punished.
    Call me toxic,your the one being slowly poisoned by greed.
  • paulsimonps
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    A lot of math, and a lot of testing different combinations of armors and skills base on said math. The BiS gear is what the community ends up getting the best results with. This is what is called the flavor of the month or Meta. BiS claims are never law, just suggestions, don't let anyone tell you differently. And remember it changes constantly, either cause of changes to the game or newly acquired knowledge about the game or set combinations.
  • generalmyrick
    generalmyrick
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    ah, so if someone puts THIS IS BIS on their video or website, that's just opinion?
    "The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing the choice between:

    Knowledge, freedom, uncertainty and the brutal truths of reality (red pill)
    Security, happiness, beauty, and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)"

    Insight to Agree to Awesome Ratio = 1:6.04:2.76 as of 1/25/2019

    Compared to people that I've ignored = I am 18% more insightful, 20% less agreeable, and 88% more awesome.
  • Mojmir
    Mojmir
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    ah, so if someone puts THIS IS BIS on their video or website, that's just opinion?

    Depends, math first,then situation it's being used.
    Raising floors and lower ceilings by zos standards has created an iron maiden.
    No matter how well you played,when the game is over,the king and pawn go back in the same box.
    Be careful what you ask for from zo$, you always get punished.
    Call me toxic,your the one being slowly poisoned by greed.
  • anitajoneb17_ESO
    anitajoneb17_ESO
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    ah, so if someone puts THIS IS BIS on their video or website, that's just opinion?

    Not only.
    Serious theorycrafters usually back it up with arguments, explanations, tests, results, and numbers.

    As it is now, with a fair competition running between all "famous theorycrafters", I don't doubt that the claimed BiS is the real BiS. But there are many builds that come close 2nd BiS, with good results, and those are neglected by the community and taken out of the landscape, due to people behaving like "sheep". That I find negative.
  • paulsimonps
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    ah, so if someone puts THIS IS BIS on their video or website, that's just opinion?

    Mathematically there is such a thing as the true BiS for PvE DPS, but I don't think anyone has ever found the exact set up for that, close but not quite is what I would assume many builds are. But yes, its all opinion, based on math and testing. They might have still missed something or other but you can be safe in that it will at least be a very competitive set. Good to know as well that as healer and tank BiS is far far more subjective than fact based since play style on that vary so much more and you can't really measure in numbers how good a set up is. Only compare performance in actual runs, however that also involves player skill so trying to compare set ups is really tricky to do when talking about Tanks and Healers. Only exception to that last part is SPC for healers in basically all PvE Content.
  • generalmyrick
    generalmyrick
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    i don't understand...there is a bis or there isn't? no? math decides? math doesn't change?
    "The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing the choice between:

    Knowledge, freedom, uncertainty and the brutal truths of reality (red pill)
    Security, happiness, beauty, and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)"

    Insight to Agree to Awesome Ratio = 1:6.04:2.76 as of 1/25/2019

    Compared to people that I've ignored = I am 18% more insightful, 20% less agreeable, and 88% more awesome.
  • paulsimonps
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    i don't understand...there is a bis or there isn't? no? math decides? math doesn't change?

    Math does decide for Damage dealers in PvE but finding ALL the math to confirm this is extremely hard and most likely when someone claims BiS it might to be the true BiS but just a very competitive set up.
  • anitajoneb17_ESO
    anitajoneb17_ESO
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    i don't understand...there is a bis or there isn't? no? math decides? math doesn't change?

    There IS math. But performance is a result of various factors (damage, resistance, resource recovery, penetration, etc...). And many other factors that influence said factors (set properties, traits, enchants, mundus, armor type, as well as the numerous sources of passives). It's fairly straightforward to compute them all for DPS output since DPSsing is basically the only job of a DD, but it's more complicated to evaluate for a healer or a tank, since those have multiple functions (heal+buff, resist+taunt+buff, etc.), making the efficiency of a build more depndant on playstyle.

    Also, note that "BiS" is a community concept. No theorycrafter/streamer ever pretended, as far as I know, to have created THE "BiS" setup. They say they created ONE, very efficient build.



    Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on August 27, 2017 8:50PM
  • Brrrofski
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    For all situations there will be a setup that mathematically does the most damage. But just because someone says it is doesn't mean it is. Someone may have missed something or not fully understand.

    As far as PvP goes though, there is no bis. It's all about what work for that player.
    Xbox One EU
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    Just like all theories, they are just the most agreed upon.

    BiS is what mathmatically results in the best results based upon what goal is trying to be achieved.

    For example:. It's just a pure fact Julianos will provide more damage per sec equipped on a magicka DD build then will Trinimac's Valor. Between the two, Julianos is BiS.

    Where it gets tricky is things like TBS vs Julianos back in the day:

    TBS was BiS IF your group managed a very high up time with war horn, if your group didn't have war horn etc, Julianos out performed TBS. The difference between the two could've been as low as 1%. - Thus debate.

    Etc
    Gamer tag: ShenronNacht NA Xbox One
    1100+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er
  • dpencil1
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    BiS is also something that can have varying degrees of impact. Before the weapon traits were rebalanced, Sharpened was BiS by a WIDE margin. Now, the traits, mundus stones, and most dps sets are balanced to a very very small degree of difference, often no more that 2-3% between a "decent" setup and the "BiS" setup. What makes the bigger difference is HOW a player plays. And really that's as it should be.
  • generalmyrick
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    great info! thanks for teaching me!
    "The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing the choice between:

    Knowledge, freedom, uncertainty and the brutal truths of reality (red pill)
    Security, happiness, beauty, and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)"

    Insight to Agree to Awesome Ratio = 1:6.04:2.76 as of 1/25/2019

    Compared to people that I've ignored = I am 18% more insightful, 20% less agreeable, and 88% more awesome.
  • GreenhaloX
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    BiS is what I like and choose to throw on my toons; what works for me. I'll read into others' opinions and take in consideration what others claim to be BiS. Just because some have Maelstrom weapons or Twice Fangs/VO, or whatever trial gears and doing some good dps, but there are plenty of others weapon/5-piece set combo that do good dps as well. It's how you play your toons and slot your skillset. Alcast, Deltia and other whoever thousands of youtubers self-proclaimed ESO experts out there, sure, are good guides for newcomers, but any good veterans of ESO can figured out what is BiS or viable for them.
  • Brrrofski
    Brrrofski
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    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    BiS is what I like and choose to throw on my toons; what works for me. I'll read into others' opinions and take in consideration what others claim to be BiS. Just because some have Maelstrom weapons or Twice Fangs/VO, or whatever trial gears and doing some good dps, but there are plenty of others weapon/5-piece set combo that do good dps as well. It's how you play your toons and slot your skillset. Alcast, Deltia and other whoever thousands of youtubers self-proclaimed ESO experts out there, sure, are good guides for newcomers, but any good veterans of ESO can figured out what is BiS or viable for them.

    No, that isn't BIS. It's what works for you. But BIS is mathematically the best. That if you used the gear A on a rotation, it would do better than gear B if using the same skills and rotation. Gear A is BIS because it produced higher damage.

    Other stuff can come close and may work for you, but gear A will do the most damage. You are right though. It depends on you. Twice fanged snake does more damage than spriggans IF a proper rotation is kept up, so it's BIS. But if you find it hard to keep enough damage flowing then twice fang starts losing effectiveness. Then spriggans might be better for that person. But twice fang is BIS because if you take that set to it's maximum potential, it will do more damage than spriggans.

    Same with burning spell weave a few patches ago. It was better than other sets if you knew how to keep it up, maximising it's potential. If you didn't know all the skills and ways to proc it and kept proccing it on near enough cool down, Julianos was better.

    BIS means what is statistically, in the perfect situation, the gear that simply produces the most damage. What's best for you is different than that. BUT, what's best for you is probably better than BIS if you can't get BIS to work.

    What's good about this patch from what I've seen (not got it yet on Xbox) is that BIS is no longer a lot ahead of other setups. So you can use what's best for you without losing a lot of damage. So if you want to run necro on a sorc or Warden DPS build because it gives you more sustain or a bigger shield to help you survive, then go for it. It produces less damage than other sets, but if it helps you sustain and keeps you alive more, then it's best for you. Same with running vo on a Stam build.

    Equipment availability is another factor. I don't have a mealstrom bow because it never drops for me. I have zero desire to grind that place for one until a better loot system is in place (screw that grind for 1h and shield bs) . So I use a night mother's bow (as part of my 5 piece). Nor do I have twice fang as I hate trials. I got my vo to do maelstrom and got out of them. I don't run trials so losing some dps is fine by me. I still pull 31k dps with my setup which is absolutely fine for dungeons. It isn't BIS, but I'm lazy.

    So we now have BIS gear, best for you gear and lazy gear. But they can all be competitive to a degree.

    I just like the fact the gap between BiS and not is a lot less. It allows for diversity, preference and to simple be lazy :)
    Edited by Brrrofski on August 29, 2017 12:12PM
    Xbox One EU
  • WhoSlappedThePie
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    Best in slot. Best in slot (also "best-in-slot"; usually shortened to "BiS") is a term meant to describe the very best item, enchant and/or gem available to a character for a specific slot. While there are differences in opinion there is usually a generally held idea of what is the BiS.
    "It does not matter how slowly you go so long as you do not stop."

    Current Toons (Max CP):
    Magsorc Breton
    Magblade Darkelf
    Stam DK Redguard
    Healer Templar High Elf
    Tank DK Argonian
    Stamblade Redguard

    Completed: vHoF | vMoL | vSO | vSO HM | vAA | vAA HM | vHR | vHR HM | vMA | vDSA
  • Nestor
    Nestor
    Community Ambassador
    You know how to get to the truth of BiS? Remove the "i".


    Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.

    PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"

  • Zuboko
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    I think that your play style will heavily determine the best in slot gear/abilities.
    And that being said it really won't matter what numbers you have to back you up, if the individual play style does not support it, then it can easily become the worst in slot.
    Please Don't Feed The Trolls.
  • buttaface
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    Just take the "I" out of BiS and you will be closer to the truth, there is no "BiS," just better sets for particular tasks, like tools on a belt. What is best in a raid is what your raid leader wants you to run and what you can run competently, what is best in 4 man pug is entirely different, vet, different again, arenas different, overland, different again, world bosses and dolmen grinding, different again, farming mob packs, different again.

    There are all around configurations that can do several things, but BiS is really just lazy fanboi speak like the annoying misuse of "meta" and lots of other fanboisms.

    Far far more important is whether you are willing to take the time and skirt the TOS to macro a light attack, attack skill, and an applicable animation cancel onto one key or give yourself carpal tunnel banging three strokes to get the full effect and speed of one skill. A ridiculous flaw in this game that the macrobois will defend (futilely) til the cows come home, but it is what it is.
    Edited by buttaface on September 11, 2017 5:58AM
  • idk
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    ah, so if someone puts THIS IS BIS on their video or website, that's just opinion?

    No. There are probably some who state what they find works for them is BiS, however, true BiS is due to mathematical theorycrafting mostly proven by testing.

    As for PvE, (since PvP is very different) many put a lot of effort to get the most damage out of their characters. They spend hours, testing it and constantly trying to find a way improve it and for the most part it varies by class as well. Often there are a few sets that can be mixed up and achieve similar results. Essentially there are a few set combinations that work for each class and a small margin of difference between them.
    Edited by idk on September 11, 2017 6:36AM
    Really, idk
  • jnelson1182
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    To my knowledge bis gear is what looks the best on paper in each spot, often bis is not even from the same sets depending on what stat you are looking at, I am still a new player myself experimenting with a mag dk & sorc s
    eeing which mixtures of gear works for me in what part of the game, so far on dk I am like bsw more than silks, even a mix of the two. I use a lot of skills that pop the set tho so I do get a lot of use out of it.
    * Maccb- Level 50 DragonKnight- Fire mage type build/ BSW body, Valkyn Skoria mister set, & Willpower Jewelry/Random Flame/Lightning/Reston STAFF's
    **MBF**
  • starkerealm
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    To my knowledge bis gear is what looks the best on paper in each spot, often bis is not even from the same sets depending on what stat you are looking at, I am still a new player myself experimenting with a mag dk & sorc s
    eeing which mixtures of gear works for me in what part of the game, so far on dk I am like bsw more than silks, even a mix of the two. I use a lot of skills that pop the set tho so I do get a lot of use out of it.

    In some games that's correct. With ESO, BiS is usually considered to be entire, or partial sets, rather than individual pieces of gear. (With exceptions for things like the Maelstrom weapons.)

    For example, if someone says, "Lord Warden is BiS for tanks," they actually mean the (complete) 2pc set, not an individual Lord Warden piece. If someone says, "Spell Power Cure (SPC)" Is BiS for healers, they're actually talking about the 5pc bonus from that set. They don't usually care if you're completing that with armor, jewelry, or your weapons.

    As for what defines BiS... that's really up to the streamer or build guide to say. It's not necessarily objective at all. It can be based on the overall value for that slot, but a lot of people throw the term around without a lot of thought.
    Co-Host of The Tenets: a podcast focused on bringing new players up to speed in ESO.
  • DoctorESO
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    Who or what decides what is BiS? Is it a specific stat or resource or what? Like, does the most famous person come up with bis? or? someone please clear this up.

    Best-in-Slot (BiS) is an item that the community at large generally accepts to be most optimal for a specified role and situation.
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