channeling vs shadow disguise (nerf needed)

boobafinno

Any NB who got shadow disguise on his hotbar(so every NB) is able to interrupt channeling dmg abilities(radiant opressor, soul assault) very easy: all what he need it just push 1 button and hide himself with shadow disguise! I am not sure, but i suppose shadow disguise shouldn't work like this - its not a tanky ability to avoid dmg, its suppose to be like hinding ninja gamestyle ability. ZOS should nerf it - disable it for interruption channeling damage.

thankyourat

So you want everyone to have to take the full ridiculous damage of soul assault and jesus beam? Really other classes should have better counters besides block

technohic

Yeah I main a Templar that has soul assault and RD and I am ok with this just because it otherwise would just be spammed on the NBs and eliminate their trademark ability. I mean we have things that reduce Templar heals but nothing that can spam at range to prevent it all together

doslekis

As a nb, shadowy disguise is my only chance to survive those attacks.

As far as radiant is concerned, I die a lot from those Jesus beams. Mostly because cloak is on my back bar by the time I switch bars im dead before I can cloak.

We can't shield or heal or block through these abilities like other classes, cloak is our only defensive measure.

Ragnaroek93

If anything, Soul Strike needs a serious nerf and more counters than block for other classes than nightblades.

Juhasow

That's because all chanelled abilities are counted as damage over time and cloak is suppressing DoT. All chanelled targeted abilities can also be purged by templar extended ritual so i dont see why only cloak should get nerf in this matter.

GreenSoup2HoT

boobafinno wrote: »

Any NB who got shadow disguise on his hotbar(so every NB) is able to interrupt channelling dmg abilities(radiant oppressor, soul assault) very easy: all what he need it just push 1 button and hide himself with shadow disguise! I am not sure, but i suppose shadow disguise shouldn't work like this - its not a tanky ability to avoid dmg, its suppose to be like hinding ninja gamestyle ability. ZOS should nerf it - disable it for interruption channeling damage.

I'm sorry but is Shadowy Disguise free to you? Channels are designed to be interrupted if someone uses cloak. Soul Assault is a special case where you have 2 seconds before you can cloak.

Honestly this is just a whine thread. Threads like these are why Dark Cloak was nerfed and dot's/debuff's are a living hell when cloak is countered. At least back in the day i could shed off a dot/debuff or 2(actually 4 things) even if cloak was instantly denied/broken.

If your change happened you make it terrible to zerg-surf as a nightblade. As soon as you get outnumbered someone will just spam radiant destruction to prevent you from escaping with your escape tool.


How about we buff cloak by getting what we lost from Dark Cloak back.... i'd gladly accept a nerfed Dark Cloak that only removes 2 debuffs then the crap we have now.

Minno

Juhasow wrote: »

That's because all chanelled abilities are counted as damage over time and cloak is suppressing DoT. All chanelled targeted abilities can also be purged by templar extended ritual so i dont see why only cloak should get nerf in this matter.

And us forumplars kept saying to use cloak to suppress Jesus beam. Guess some NBs listened lol

Brutusmax1mus

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

If anything, Soul Strike needs a serious nerf and more counters than block for other classes than nightblades.

You mean like heal, line of sight, shields, staying in the offensive so they can't channel something for 3 seconds?

Lord-Otto

doslekis wrote: »

As a nb, shadowy disguise is my only chance to survive those attacks.

As far as radiant is concerned, I die a lot from those Jesus beams. Mostly because cloak is on my back bar by the time I switch bars im dead before I can cloak.

We can't shield or heal or block through these abilities like other classes, cloak is our only defensive measure.

Not true. I have seen plenty of Nightblades, good and mediocre ones, who could shield and block and heal just fine through it and then went for the punish. Only bad ones struggle with beams, but they probably struggle with everything, anyway.

olsborg

boobafinno wrote: »

Any NB who got shadow disguise on his hotbar(so every NB) is able to interrupt channeling dmg abilities(radiant opressor, soul assault) very easy: all what he need it just push 1 button and hide himself with shadow disguise! I am not sure, but i suppose shadow disguise shouldn't work like this - its not a tanky ability to avoid dmg, its suppose to be like hinding ninja gamestyle ability. ZOS should nerf it - disable it for interruption channeling damage.

What? You want the only counter to such abilities be block? So you think that people using channels shouldn't have to think about who they target with such abilities at all and try to adapt and perhaps use something else? So you want it to be a win button? Gotit, kthxbye.

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

If anything, Soul Strike needs a serious nerf and more counters than block for other classes than nightblades.

Agreed wholeheartedly.

Derra

thankyourat wrote: »

So you want everyone to have to take the full ridiculous damage of soul assault and jesus beam? Really other classes should have better counters besides block

The main functionality annoying me about is being able to cancel enemy heavyattacks very easily.

I want a mechanic for every class that allows me to counterplay enemy heavyattacking resource gains.

doslekis

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Not true. I have seen plenty of Nightblades, good and mediocre ones, who could shield and block and heal just fine through it and then went for the punish. Only bad ones struggle with beams, but they probably struggle with everything, anyway.

Hmm well if I block I run out of stamina. I don't have shields because I'm a stamblade, and my vigor tic ain't gonna save me.

So I guess I'll just stay on the strugglebus and keep pressing cloak lol.

Ragnaroek93

Lord-Otto wrote: »

doslekis wrote: »

As a nb, shadowy disguise is my only chance to survive those attacks.

As far as radiant is concerned, I die a lot from those Jesus beams. Mostly because cloak is on my back bar by the time I switch bars im dead before I can cloak.

We can't shield or heal or block through these abilities like other classes, cloak is our only defensive measure.

Not true. I have seen plenty of Nightblades, good and mediocre ones, who could shield and block and heal just fine through it and then went for the punish. Only bad ones struggle with beams, but they probably struggle with everything, anyway.

Ok. Whisper me ingame (if you play on PC EU) and fight against my sorc with a medium armor build and show me how you counter it.

DDuke

This post is so wrong in so many ways...

First off, the morph NBs (well, good ones) use is called Dark Cloak, not Shadowy Disguise.

The base skill is buggy as hell (gets broken by about a billion things that shouldnt break it), but Shadowy Disguise has an extra bug: the guaranteed crit is consumed by any DoT tick, making the morph absolutely pointless for pretty much any build.

Second thing: there is a channeled skill that makes cloaking impossible for 2 seconds, it's called Soul Assault and it pretty much gives you a free kill on any non-S&B stamblade when used properly (fair, huh?). Needless to say, it also makes 1vX a painful experience for medium builds and needs to be nerfed.

If you want your other channeled undodgeable *** to hit people, use a det pot or magelight, or time it with Purifying Light/Curse etc.

Third thing: cloak isn't used for hiding alone (except by bad players), it's used to avoid damage and as a setup for various combos.


Bottom line is: you have ways to play around it and shouldn't just expect to have bar full of i-win buttons vs medium builds.

EdTerra

boobafinno wrote: »

Any NB who got shadow disguise on his hotbar(so every NB) is able to interrupt channeling dmg abilities(radiant opressor, soul assault) very easy: all what he need it just push 1 button and hide himself with shadow disguise! I am not sure, but i suppose shadow disguise shouldn't work like this - its not a tanky ability to avoid dmg, its suppose to be like hinding ninja gamestyle ability. ZOS should nerf it - disable it for interruption channeling damage.

wait what ?, is that a 1.6 thread ? it was used to cleanse root in 1.0, avoid meteor/leap, interrupt soul assault, cleanse dot

but now it does nothing, it's just a skill who give you invisibility and avoid dot, even dodge isn't granted with those bugs, now we have no other choice to also use mist form if you want old cloak's benefits, nothing else got nerfed this hard

and making a channeling execute undogeable is just wtf, why not making AW as oblivion damage and undodgeable, after all it's so annoying to see it shielded or dodged......

boobafinno

Juhasow wrote: »

That's because all chanelled abilities are counted as damage over time and cloak is suppressing DoT. All chanelled targeted abilities can also be purged by templar extended ritual so i dont see why only cloak should get nerf in this matter.

Well, i guess its wrong. If u shooting with automatic rifle in your enemy, your enemy cant just stop it by taking a pill, for example. But he can stop u if he hit your head with some heavy item. Same with jesus beams. It is execute ability like a punishment directly from God, and shouldnt be avoidable so easy haha. tbh when some NB interrupted my beam with cloak first time, i thought its kinda bug...

Juhasow

boobafinno wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

That's because all chanelled abilities are counted as damage over time and cloak is suppressing DoT. All chanelled targeted abilities can also be purged by templar extended ritual so i dont see why only cloak should get nerf in this matter.

Well, i guess its wrong. If u shooting with automatic rifle in your enemy, your enemy cant just stop it by taking a pill, for example. But he can stop u if he hit your head with some heavy item. Same with jesus beams. It is execute ability like a punishment directly from God, and shouldnt be avoidable so easy haha. tbh when some NB interrupted my beam with cloak first time, i thought its kinda bug...

Ummm what ? If You shooting to someone with automatic rifle he's dead before even picking some heavy item not even talking about using it lol ...

Game design is as it is. Cloak could see some drawbacks imo tbh but not in that matter.

Turelus

No, cloak is the last thing Nightblades have going for them in PvP, let's not weaken it any more than has already been done.

If it annoys you that much, throw a flare or pop a mage light then use your channel, they can't cloak it off then.

technohic

boobafinno wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

That's because all chanelled abilities are counted as damage over time and cloak is suppressing DoT. All chanelled targeted abilities can also be purged by templar extended ritual so i dont see why only cloak should get nerf in this matter.

Well, i guess its wrong. If u shooting with automatic rifle in your enemy, your enemy cant just stop it by taking a pill, for example. But he can stop u if he hit your head with some heavy item. Same with jesus beams. It is execute ability like a punishment directly from God, and shouldnt be avoidable so easy haha. tbh when some NB interrupted my beam with cloak first time, i thought its kinda bug...

This has to be up there in the "worst analogy and argument ever" category. Never mind being a game to where real life doesn't matter but a machine gun is RD? A pill is cloak? Whaaat?

And if we are going off of it being holy power; Templars should just be better than everything on that note but again; it's a game. Can't just trump NBs because of "punishment directly from god." Besides. RD is pretty much spammable even if you shouldn't spam it. There are plenty of ways to pop NBs back out to cast it again.

leepalmer95

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

If anything, Soul Strike needs a serious nerf and more counters than block for other classes than nightblades.

You mean like heal, line of sight, shields, staying in the offensive so they can't channel something for 3 seconds?

70% snare pretty much means unless theres a tree next to you, forget about line of sight.

Yes of course they need to heal the damage is insane to the point of needing to heal while blocking in it.

Not everyone has a shield, even then it still eats shields and shields are expensive.

What will staying on the offensive do? As soon as someone uses soul assault on you, your forced to block on a stam build or you will get melted by it.


Honestly the fact idiots still defend this skill is annoying. It's a broken skill used and defended by bad players who need the crutch it gives them in pvp.

leepalmer95

boobafinno wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

That's because all chanelled abilities are counted as damage over time and cloak is suppressing DoT. All chanelled targeted abilities can also be purged by templar extended ritual so i dont see why only cloak should get nerf in this matter.

Well, i guess its wrong. If u shooting with automatic rifle in your enemy, your enemy cant just stop it by taking a pill, for example. But he can stop u if he hit your head with some heavy item. Same with jesus beams. It is execute ability like a punishment directly from God, and shouldnt be avoidable so easy haha. tbh when some NB interrupted my beam with cloak first time, i thought its kinda bug...

All this proves is that your terrible at analogy's and that you use soul assault and are likely bad at the game.

Biro123

The way I look at it is that every mag version of each class has a unique magical survivability skill.
Sorcs have hardened ward
NB gets cloak
Templar heals
DK's. Well, I don't know the class, but they're generally pretty tanky.

I know you can't look at them in isolation and have to take the whole toolkit into account, but really, is cloak stronger than bol or hardened? I don't think so.
And I really like to hat they all have very different mechanics with different weaknesses.

Brutusmax1mus

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

If anything, Soul Strike needs a serious nerf and more counters than block for other classes than nightblades.

You mean like heal, line of sight, shields, staying in the offensive so they can't channel something for 3 seconds?

70% snare pretty much means unless theres a tree next to you, forget about line of sight.

Yes of course they need to heal the damage is insane to the point of needing to heal while blocking in it.

Not everyone has a shield, even then it still eats shields and shields are expensive.

What will staying on the offensive do? As soon as someone uses soul assault on you, your forced to block on a stam build or you will get melted by it.


Honestly the fact idiots still defend this skill is annoying. It's a broken skill used and defended by bad players who need the crutch it gives them in pvp.

How often are you somewhere that has no line of sight available?? Its everywhere in battle grounds, keeps, towers, sewers, open world. Bad positioning of enemies is a strength of this this ultimate.

1 tri pot, 1 vigor, and 1 rally will out heal this. Also, name a good ultimate that doesn't require you to heal and or block when you're hit with it? Yes it drains more stamina than most ultimates. But you can't use any skill during it. Night blades have better burst they can do in 2 seconds. Dragon leap / executioner will do more damage in that 2 seconds than soul assault. If the enemy uses SA while at 50%health they can be brought down easily.

Ive killed people on my night blade with a light attack, surprise attack, incap, psn inject tick, executioner while being soul assaulted.

1h and s hard counters S.A. completely.
Mist form hard counters it.
Shields Counter it
1 shield and cloak counters it.
1 block vigor and cloak rally counters it.
Streak counters it.
Out numbering someone counters it. 3v3 with focusing on the same target like you should be makes this ultimate useless. Dawn breaker is so much better when under fire.
Building into resist counters it as it makes your healing more effective towards it.
Shields do cost magicka sure. If you're out off magicka in 3 or 4 shield casts you're bad.
Dks passives counter this.

Sure night blades have it the worst because they all are almost forced into building high damage low defense builds.

Wtf are you calling me an idiot and a bad player for? All of my characters i pvp on have no issue 1v1 with this ultimate at all. I've died to db, eye, incap, leap, even the new warden aoe ultimate more than soul assault. I use soul assault more for the assault on a players resources more than i think it will kill them. If they can't recover that's on Their build, not mine. Plenty of people have no issue with SA. I'm surprised you do.

Izaki

DDuke wrote: »

This post is so wrong in so many ways...

First off, the morph NBs (well, good ones) use is called Dark Cloak, not Shadowy Disguise.

The base skill is buggy as hell (gets broken by about a billion things that shouldnt break it), but Shadowy Disguise has an extra bug: the guaranteed crit is consumed by any DoT tick, making the morph absolutely pointless for pretty much any build.

Second thing: there is a channeled skill that makes cloaking impossible for 2 seconds, it's called Soul Assault and it pretty much gives you a free kill on any non-S&B stamblade when used properly (fair, huh?). Needless to say, it also makes 1vX a painful experience for medium builds and needs to be nerfed.

If you want your other channeled undodgeable *** to hit people, use a det pot or magelight, or time it with Purifying Light/Curse etc.

Third thing: cloak isn't used for hiding alone (except by bad players), it's used to avoid damage and as a setup for various combos.


Bottom line is: you have ways to play around it and shouldn't just expect to have bar full of i-win buttons vs medium builds.

Shadowy Disguise isn't used so much for the crit hit on your next attack as it is used to make all of your current heals crit. I personally use Dark Cloak since 70% crit chance is more than enough to drop Shadowy Disguise, but for someone with a lower crit chance, its definitely a valid option since it buffs your healing tremendously.

Izaki

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

If anything, Soul Strike needs a serious nerf and more counters than block for other classes than nightblades.

You mean like heal, line of sight, shields, staying in the offensive so they can't channel something for 3 seconds?

70% snare pretty much means unless theres a tree next to you, forget about line of sight.

Yes of course they need to heal the damage is insane to the point of needing to heal while blocking in it.

Not everyone has a shield, even then it still eats shields and shields are expensive.

What will staying on the offensive do? As soon as someone uses soul assault on you, your forced to block on a stam build or you will get melted by it.


Honestly the fact idiots still defend this skill is annoying. It's a broken skill used and defended by bad players who need the crutch it gives them in pvp.

72 points into block cost reduction OP

leepalmer95

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

If anything, Soul Strike needs a serious nerf and more counters than block for other classes than nightblades.

You mean like heal, line of sight, shields, staying in the offensive so they can't channel something for 3 seconds?

70% snare pretty much means unless theres a tree next to you, forget about line of sight.

Yes of course they need to heal the damage is insane to the point of needing to heal while blocking in it.

Not everyone has a shield, even then it still eats shields and shields are expensive.

What will staying on the offensive do? As soon as someone uses soul assault on you, your forced to block on a stam build or you will get melted by it.


Honestly the fact idiots still defend this skill is annoying. It's a broken skill used and defended by bad players who need the crutch it gives them in pvp.

72 points into block cost reduction OP

Yet it'll still drain like 20k stamina blocking it. Not including regen tick losses or vigor/rally loses.

leepalmer95

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

If anything, Soul Strike needs a serious nerf and more counters than block for other classes than nightblades.

You mean like heal, line of sight, shields, staying in the offensive so they can't channel something for 3 seconds?

70% snare pretty much means unless theres a tree next to you, forget about line of sight.

Yes of course they need to heal the damage is insane to the point of needing to heal while blocking in it.

Not everyone has a shield, even then it still eats shields and shields are expensive.

What will staying on the offensive do? As soon as someone uses soul assault on you, your forced to block on a stam build or you will get melted by it.


Honestly the fact idiots still defend this skill is annoying. It's a broken skill used and defended by bad players who need the crutch it gives them in pvp.

How often are you somewhere that has no line of sight available?? Its everywhere in battle grounds, keeps, towers, sewers, open world. Bad positioning of enemies is a strength of this this ultimate.

1 tri pot, 1 vigor, and 1 rally will out heal this. Also, name a good ultimate that doesn't require you to heal and or block when you're hit with it? Yes it drains more stamina than most ultimates. But you can't use any skill during it. Night blades have better burst they can do in 2 seconds. Dragon leap / executioner will do more damage in that 2 seconds than soul assault. If the enemy uses SA while at 50%health they can be brought down easily.

Ive killed people on my night blade with a light attack, surprise attack, incap, psn inject tick, executioner while being soul assaulted.

1h and s hard counters S.A. completely.
Mist form hard counters it.
Shields Counter it
1 shield and cloak counters it.
1 block vigor and cloak rally counters it.
Streak counters it.
Out numbering someone counters it. 3v3 with focusing on the same target like you should be makes this ultimate useless. Dawn breaker is so much better when under fire.
Building into resist counters it as it makes your healing more effective towards it.
Shields do cost magicka sure. If you're out off magicka in 3 or 4 shield casts you're bad.
Dks passives counter this.

Sure night blades have it the worst because they all are almost forced into building high damage low defense builds.

Wtf are you calling me an idiot and a bad player for? All of my characters i pvp on have no issue 1v1 with this ultimate at all. I've died to db, eye, incap, leap, even the new warden aoe ultimate more than soul assault. I use soul assault more for the assault on a players resources more than i think it will kill them. If they can't recover that's on Their build, not mine. Plenty of people have no issue with SA. I'm surprised you do.

s&b. not everyone is s&b and it still costs a lot with the blocking changes.

Mist form requires vamp, but yeah its decent, still hits a bit over 4s though even with 75% dmg reduction.

Shield, only mag sorc have 2 shields. Only light users use shields, most players who have 1 shield use dampen but even then it still costs like 4k magicka and will need 2 casts in order to stop a soul assault dmg.

Still gotta take 2s worth e.g. 4 ticks or half of it in order to cloak. If your have dots on you or are taking other damage thats 8 ticks of block which will eat your stamina, a non s&b user block cost is like 2k per tick.

Streak doesn't counter it?

Outnumbering isn't a counter to anything, also its not really true either you just can't use it as soon as you get it like most of the scrubs who actually use it do. Having fury on someone and getting them to near burst makes using soul assault an instant kill.

Pretty much any decent player has a problem with soul assault. Hard to talk about balance with someone who seems keen on using it. 1v1 its stong but in any group vs group of 1vx its broken.

Oh and its not the 'players' fault they can't sustain being forced to block 8-16 ticks on damage while also healing the very strong damage from such a cheap costing ult with no counter.

It's not hard to get an 80k~ tooltip soul assault. Thats 40k pvp dmg over 4s or 10k/s.

DDuke

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

This post is so wrong in so many ways...

First off, the morph NBs (well, good ones) use is called Dark Cloak, not Shadowy Disguise.

The base skill is buggy as hell (gets broken by about a billion things that shouldnt break it), but Shadowy Disguise has an extra bug: the guaranteed crit is consumed by any DoT tick, making the morph absolutely pointless for pretty much any build.

Second thing: there is a channeled skill that makes cloaking impossible for 2 seconds, it's called Soul Assault and it pretty much gives you a free kill on any non-S&B stamblade when used properly (fair, huh?). Needless to say, it also makes 1vX a painful experience for medium builds and needs to be nerfed.

If you want your other channeled undodgeable *** to hit people, use a det pot or magelight, or time it with Purifying Light/Curse etc.

Third thing: cloak isn't used for hiding alone (except by bad players), it's used to avoid damage and as a setup for various combos.


Bottom line is: you have ways to play around it and shouldn't just expect to have bar full of i-win buttons vs medium builds.

Shadowy Disguise isn't used so much for the crit hit on your next attack as it is used to make all of your current heals crit. I personally use Dark Cloak since 70% crit chance is more than enough to drop Shadowy Disguise, but for someone with a lower crit chance, its definitely a valid option since it buffs your healing tremendously.

Actually, you won't get guaranteed crit heal ticks at all after a DoT ticks on your target (as it consumes the buff).

leepalmer95 wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

If anything, Soul Strike needs a serious nerf and more counters than block for other classes than nightblades.

You mean like heal, line of sight, shields, staying in the offensive so they can't channel something for 3 seconds?

70% snare pretty much means unless theres a tree next to you, forget about line of sight.

Yes of course they need to heal the damage is insane to the point of needing to heal while blocking in it.

Not everyone has a shield, even then it still eats shields and shields are expensive.

What will staying on the offensive do? As soon as someone uses soul assault on you, your forced to block on a stam build or you will get melted by it.


Honestly the fact idiots still defend this skill is annoying. It's a broken skill used and defended by bad players who need the crutch it gives them in pvp.

72 points into block cost reduction OP

Yet it'll still drain like 20k stamina blocking it. Not including regen tick losses or vigor/rally loses.

Costs 13 824 stamina with 56 points in block cost reduction (pointless to go above 56 on anything, scaling is bad after that point). With 72 points, the cost of blocking a Soul Assault would be 13 304 stamina.

Add in Vigor (3160 stamina) and stam regen blocked for 3,5 seconds and the total "cost" of someone Soul Assaulting you is indeed still around 19-20k stamina.

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

If anything, Soul Strike needs a serious nerf and more counters than block for other classes than nightblades.

You mean like heal, line of sight, shields, staying in the offensive so they can't channel something for 3 seconds?

70% snare pretty much means unless theres a tree next to you, forget about line of sight.

Yes of course they need to heal the damage is insane to the point of needing to heal while blocking in it.

Not everyone has a shield, even then it still eats shields and shields are expensive.

What will staying on the offensive do? As soon as someone uses soul assault on you, your forced to block on a stam build or you will get melted by it.


Honestly the fact idiots still defend this skill is annoying. It's a broken skill used and defended by bad players who need the crutch it gives them in pvp.

How often are you somewhere that has no line of sight available?? Its everywhere in battle grounds, keeps, towers, sewers, open world. Bad positioning of enemies is a strength of this this ultimate.

1 tri pot, 1 vigor, and 1 rally will out heal this. Also, name a good ultimate that doesn't require you to heal and or block when you're hit with it? Yes it drains more stamina than most ultimates. But you can't use any skill during it. Night blades have better burst they can do in 2 seconds. Dragon leap / executioner will do more damage in that 2 seconds than soul assault. If the enemy uses SA while at 50%health they can be brought down easily.

Ive killed people on my night blade with a light attack, surprise attack, incap, psn inject tick, executioner while being soul assaulted.

1h and s hard counters S.A. completely.
Mist form hard counters it.
Shields Counter it
1 shield and cloak counters it.
1 block vigor and cloak rally counters it.
Streak counters it.
Out numbering someone counters it. 3v3 with focusing on the same target like you should be makes this ultimate useless. Dawn breaker is so much better when under fire.
Building into resist counters it as it makes your healing more effective towards it.
Shields do cost magicka sure. If you're out off magicka in 3 or 4 shield casts you're bad.
Dks passives counter this.

Sure night blades have it the worst because they all are almost forced into building high damage low defense builds.

Wtf are you calling me an idiot and a bad player for? All of my characters i pvp on have no issue 1v1 with this ultimate at all. I've died to db, eye, incap, leap, even the new warden aoe ultimate more than soul assault. I use soul assault more for the assault on a players resources more than i think it will kill them. If they can't recover that's on Their build, not mine. Plenty of people have no issue with SA. I'm surprised you do.

Sure... there's counters to Soul Assault - just not for medium armor builds (unless your opponent uses it badly/has bad stats).

A 100k Soul Assault from pet sorc for instance will kill you no matter what, pets+daedric prey+wrath into Soul Assault is unsurvivable even if you are someone with access to Rally - anyone who knows what they're doing will wait until your Rally expires (or is consumed) to Soul Assault you.

Same thing happens with a high damage Templar & Purifying Light+Unstable Core->Soul Assault, or a magicka DK with DoTs on you+Skoria procs and Soul Assault.

It's simply too much damage to block and outheal in medium armor & DW/2H/Bow (and if you play S&B, you're better off in heavy armor anyway).

And if you're 1vX'ing, even a noob can kill you with Soul Assault by forcing you to become immobile & block (while snared by 70%) as the zerg collapses on top of you.


Every other ultimate you listed has multiple counters (beyond playing a tank build) and will never drain 19k+ stamina from you:

• Dawnbreaker doesn't kill you with 7 impen & 20k+ health and you can dodge (unless playing vs stamplar/stam warden) or cloak or shadow image right after to survive. The most you lose to Dawnbreaker should be around 8-9k health.
• Eye of the Storm can be avoided entirely with Shadow Image or just speed pot/dodging/sprinting out of it (especially if you've snared the person using it with something).
• Incap is the same as Dawnbreaker, it doesn't kill you with 7 impen & 20k+ health and you can dodge everything that follows (stamblade has no undodgeables besides PI DoT & axe bleed). You can even dodge the Incap entirely (not Soul Harvest tho).
• Leap is the same as Dawnbreaker & Incap, not a guaranteed kill.
• Warden ultimate, same as Eye of the Storm

Pretty much all the other ultimates are survivable for medium armor user, no matter what you combo them with. Soul Assault isn't.

Brutusmax1mus

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

If anything, Soul Strike needs a serious nerf and more counters than block for other classes than nightblades.

You mean like heal, line of sight, shields, staying in the offensive so they can't channel something for 3 seconds?

70% snare pretty much means unless theres a tree next to you, forget about line of sight.

Yes of course they need to heal the damage is insane to the point of needing to heal while blocking in it.

Not everyone has a shield, even then it still eats shields and shields are expensive.

What will staying on the offensive do? As soon as someone uses soul assault on you, your forced to block on a stam build or you will get melted by it.


Honestly the fact idiots still defend this skill is annoying. It's a broken skill used and defended by bad players who need the crutch it gives them in pvp.

How often are you somewhere that has no line of sight available?? Its everywhere in battle grounds, keeps, towers, sewers, open world. Bad positioning of enemies is a strength of this this ultimate.

1 tri pot, 1 vigor, and 1 rally will out heal this. Also, name a good ultimate that doesn't require you to heal and or block when you're hit with it? Yes it drains more stamina than most ultimates. But you can't use any skill during it. Night blades have better burst they can do in 2 seconds. Dragon leap / executioner will do more damage in that 2 seconds than soul assault. If the enemy uses SA while at 50%health they can be brought down easily.

Ive killed people on my night blade with a light attack, surprise attack, incap, psn inject tick, executioner while being soul assaulted.

1h and s hard counters S.A. completely.
Mist form hard counters it.
Shields Counter it
1 shield and cloak counters it.
1 block vigor and cloak rally counters it.
Streak counters it.
Out numbering someone counters it. 3v3 with focusing on the same target like you should be makes this ultimate useless. Dawn breaker is so much better when under fire.
Building into resist counters it as it makes your healing more effective towards it.
Shields do cost magicka sure. If you're out off magicka in 3 or 4 shield casts you're bad.
Dks passives counter this.

Sure night blades have it the worst because they all are almost forced into building high damage low defense builds.

Wtf are you calling me an idiot and a bad player for? All of my characters i pvp on have no issue 1v1 with this ultimate at all. I've died to db, eye, incap, leap, even the new warden aoe ultimate more than soul assault. I use soul assault more for the assault on a players resources more than i think it will kill them. If they can't recover that's on Their build, not mine. Plenty of people have no issue with SA. I'm surprised you do.

s&b. not everyone is s&b and it still costs a lot with the blocking changes.

Mist form requires vamp, but yeah its decent, still hits a bit over 4s though even with 75% dmg reduction.

Shield, only mag sorc have 2 shields. Only light users use shields, most players who have 1 shield use dampen but even then it still costs like 4k magicka and will need 2 casts in order to stop a soul assault dmg.

Still gotta take 2s worth e.g. 4 ticks or half of it in order to cloak. If your have dots on you or are taking other damage thats 8 ticks of block which will eat your stamina, a non s&b user block cost is like 2k per tick.

Streak doesn't counter it?

Outnumbering isn't a counter to anything, also its not really true either you just can't use it as soon as you get it like most of the scrubs who actually use it do. Having fury on someone and getting them to near burst makes using soul assault an instant kill.

Pretty much any decent player has a problem with soul assault. Hard to talk about balance with someone who seems keen on using it. 1v1 its stong but in any group vs group of 1vx its broken.

Oh and its not the 'players' fault they can't sustain being forced to block 8-16 ticks on damage while also healing the very strong damage from such a cheap costing ult with no counter.

It's not hard to get an 80k~ tooltip soul assault. Thats 40k pvp dmg over 4s or 10k/s.

That gets cut a ton by resistances. Have you ever used the spell? Resistance is a great counter to this actually.

Streak away, if you had any range at all you'll be out of distance and force a stop.

Outnumbering may Have been the wrong term. I meant focusing in an equally numbered fight. Any ultimate when you've got 2 other people focusing you will make you feel it.

It's an ultimate, it's meant to have strengths and weaknesses and it's meant to force a reaction. I'm just pointing out ways to deal with it. I am not saying every build deals with it well, bc it doesn't. Some builds make SA irrelevant, however. Do you think meteor into hard cc is op? There are even less counters to that and its much Better imo.

If i had a burst ultimate id use it any day.

josh.lackey_ESO

doslekis wrote: »

As a nb, shadowy disguise is my only chance to survive those attacks.

As far as radiant is concerned, I die a lot from those Jesus beams. Mostly because cloak is on my back bar by the time I switch bars im dead before I can cloak.

We can't shield or heal or block through these abilities like other classes, cloak is our only defensive measure.

This is nonsense, you can shield, heal, and block just as much as every other class. It's a regular forum warrior trope that gets paraded out in every thread even remotely criticizing Cloak for being the broken, overpowered, absurd ability that it is.

No, actually it's quite the opposite. Shadow Cloak and its morphs ought to be completely disabled when in Cyrodiil, along with stealth in general. Maybe invis pots could remain, since they are equally available to everyone. It's an ridiculously unfair advantage for one class to be able to disappear at will without any counters. (And spare me the " slot Radiant Magelight" trope, it's a joke of a skill that doesn't work even half the time. Revealing Flare is worse.)

For a while, attacks would hit so long as you targeted the nightblade before they disappeared, but that was "fixed" a few patches ago and now nightblades can have unlimited, spammable invulnerability as well as invisibility.

I wish ZOS would make one of the PvP campaigns "no stealth" so players would have an option for more fair playstyles.