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Idea for perma-block stacking penalty in PvP
Alpha83
✭
It's really not reasonable that any tank build can sustain block defense against 5-10 players almost indefinitely. Special builds shouldn't be required to counter this. But right now that's exactly what happens with 660cp tanks on Vivec (PC cp campaign). It wouldn't be so bad if tanks couldn't do any damage, but they can do crazy damage with ultimates like ferocious leap. Adding an ultimate like bat swarm also gives them decent damage and crazy sustain.
One obvious problem is that blocking works in a 360 degree circle... Blocks shouldn't count when hit from behind. However, we can't really fix that because this would nerf PvE tanks. Being both a PvE and a PvP player, I'm really tired of Zenimax nerfing things for PvP which affect PvE. It's time to start separating the two streams.
I would suggest that blocking in PvP incur increasing penalties for sustained blocking. In this sense, each blocked attack would add a 'block penalty stack'. The higher the stack number, the greater the stamina cost per block. The stamina penalty should be small for low stacks, but start to rise exponentially. This penalty would keep stacking until you lower your block for a full 5 seconds (no blocking at all). This kind of a change would require more strategic blocking in PvP, with players finding windows to lower their guard and reset stacks. Obviously this idea would require a lot more thought to be implemented fairly, but something should be done about perma-blocking in PvP.
TL;DR: Perma-blocking in PvP should create 'block stack' penalties, which increase the stamina requirement per block for a sustained block. This block penalty should continually increase until the player does not block for a full 5 seconds, resetting the stack. Such a change would have no effect on PvE, which is important.
One obvious problem is that blocking works in a 360 degree circle... Blocks shouldn't count when hit from behind. However, we can't really fix that because this would nerf PvE tanks. Being both a PvE and a PvP player, I'm really tired of Zenimax nerfing things for PvP which affect PvE. It's time to start separating the two streams.
I would suggest that blocking in PvP incur increasing penalties for sustained blocking. In this sense, each blocked attack would add a 'block penalty stack'. The higher the stack number, the greater the stamina cost per block. The stamina penalty should be small for low stacks, but start to rise exponentially. This penalty would keep stacking until you lower your block for a full 5 seconds (no blocking at all). This kind of a change would require more strategic blocking in PvP, with players finding windows to lower their guard and reset stacks. Obviously this idea would require a lot more thought to be implemented fairly, but something should be done about perma-blocking in PvP.
TL;DR: Perma-blocking in PvP should create 'block stack' penalties, which increase the stamina requirement per block for a sustained block. This block penalty should continually increase until the player does not block for a full 5 seconds, resetting the stack. Such a change would have no effect on PvE, which is important.
3
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Merkabeh✭✭✭Sure. As soon as a similar concept exists for shields and dodge rolls.Crusader of The Knights of the Alessian Order
Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!" - Sallington
#CommunicationEquality13 -
chaserstorm16909✭✭✭✭✭It's really not reasonable that any tank build can sustain block defense against 5-10 players almost indefinitely. Special builds shouldn't be required to counter this. But right now that's exactly what happens with 660cp tanks on Vivec (PC cp campaign). It wouldn't be so bad if tanks couldn't do any damage, but they can do crazy damage with ultimates like ferocious leap. Adding an ultimate like bat swarm also gives them decent damage and crazy sustain.
One obvious problem is that blocking works in a 360 degree circle... Blocks shouldn't count when hit from behind. However, we can't really fix that because this would nerf PvE tanks. Being both a PvE and a PvP player, I'm really tired of Zenimax nerfing things for PvP which affect PvE. It's time to start separating the two streams.
I would suggest that blocking in PvP incur increasing penalties for sustained blocking. In this sense, each blocked attack would add a 'block penalty stack'. The higher the stack number, the greater the stamina cost per block. The stamina penalty should be small for low stacks, but start to rise exponentially. This penalty would keep stacking until you lower your block for a full 5 seconds (no blocking at all). This kind of a change would require more strategic blocking in PvP, with players finding windows to lower their guard and reset stacks. Obviously this idea would require a lot more thought to be implemented fairly, but something should be done about perma-blocking in PvP.
TL;DR: Perma-blocking in PvP should create 'block stack' penalties, which increase the stamina requirement per block for a sustained block. This block penalty should continually increase until the player does not block for a full 5 seconds, resetting the stack. Such a change would have no effect on PvE, which is important.Sure. As soon as a similar concept exists for shields and dodge rolls.
I couldn't agree more with all of this.1 -
Alpha83✭Sure. As soon as a similar concept exists for shields and dodge rolls.
I honestly don't have a problem with that. Personally, I'd rather see shields be critable and then just buff shield slightly. This way shield users would have to run impen in PvP like everyone else. But I have no problem if Zenimax instituted a stacking penalty for shields and dodge rolling in the same manner.
But something has to be done, because this tanky meta is getting silly. It's almost impossible to kill someone 1v1, or even 2v1 now if your opponent is decent.
0 -
s7732425ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭They already significantly increased the difficulty of permablocking with this last patch.5 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭A group I run with has a good way to deal with these tanks.
Just ignore them and they will get bored and go away.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."9 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What can be taken away from OP to compensate? If a tank is hard to kill, but cannot do damage I do not see much wrong with that. There are ways to handle tanks, but when a player is not built for it or lacks understanding it makes sense to walk away.
All that tank is trying to do is waste your time. Choose to not let him waste your time and go forth and conquer others.
2 -
RANKK7✭✭✭✭✭
✭switch to another target
we need they develop and fix skills separately for pvp and pve, that would be all. Surely I wouldn't give them ideas about penalties implemented in such unstable and flawed environmentlll
"I really don't know who the **** came off with this change. Definitely somebody who does not play the game, that's for sure".
lll0 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭They will not create something for PvP that doesn't also happen in PvE, they don't want to have separate mechanics. The devs have stated this many many times, adding something to Battlespirit is the last thing they will do. So no I don't agree with this type of change either. As well, perma blockers are not that big of a problems, the people that are the most dangerous are the people that hold block a lot but actually take the block down to do other things too. 100% Permablockers are not dangerous, they loose too much resources from simply holding the block, it takes that much to 100% perma block, those that have low block cost however and drop their block to heavy attack or use their regen for other things are far more dangerous, and a change like this would not stop those types of builds.0 -
RANKK7✭✭✭✭✭
✭paulsimonps wrote: »They will not create something for PvP that doesn't also happen in PvE, they don't want to have separate mechanics. The devs have stated this many many times, adding something to Battlespirit is the last thing they will do.
This is disheartening to say the least, thx for the info.
lll
"I really don't know who the **** came off with this change. Definitely somebody who does not play the game, that's for sure".
lll1 -
Anne_Firehawk✭✭✭✭✭Q.QAnne Firehawk | Legate | Bringer of Light | Voice of Reason | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Magicka DK forever
GUAR SQUAD OP
All Hardmodes done, WTB content.
Cancercrates are ruining the game
DD | Phoenix Reborn
GM | Tamriels Emporium
#permabanAPFlippers1 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The PvP raids I'm in ignore tanks also.
Wondering if the OP feels like he/she has to kill every player that's in the immediate area for it to be a good night of PvP?6 -
IcyDeadPeople✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What's wrong with tanks? They serve a purpose in PVP as well as PVE.
Certainly room for extreme tank builds that do little damage, room for squishy builds with tremendous burst damage and then everyone else in between.4 -
SirMewser✭✭✭✭✭A group I run with has a good way to deal with these tanks.
Just ignore them and they will get bored and go away.
Exactly, it's not like they are slaughtering good players.
OP, L2P...
Good thing ZoS doesn't read the forums, the game would be worse. xDEdited by SirMewser on August 20, 2017 11:06PM7 -
ks888✭✭✭✭Just build ulti on tanks and move on. They usually can't do much damage and when there's no guards around to boop, they are useful then.DC NA - Norri - Khole RIP - [Mostly Outnumbered]** I have too many toons **RIP every alt I deleted - where am I? what year is it?4 -
RadRzRg✭✭✭It's really not reasonable that any tank build can sustain block defense against 5-10 players almost indefinitely. Special builds shouldn't be required to counter this. But right now that's exactly what happens with 660cp tanks on Vivec (PC cp campaign). It wouldn't be so bad if tanks couldn't do any damage, but they can do crazy damage with ultimates like ferocious leap. Adding an ultimate like bat swarm also gives them decent damage and crazy sustain.
One obvious problem is that blocking works in a 360 degree circle... Blocks shouldn't count when hit from behind. However, we can't really fix that because this would nerf PvE tanks. Being both a PvE and a PvP player, I'm really tired of Zenimax nerfing things for PvP which affect PvE. It's time to start separating the two streams.
I would suggest that blocking in PvP incur increasing penalties for sustained blocking. In this sense, each blocked attack would add a 'block penalty stack'. The higher the stack number, the greater the stamina cost per block. The stamina penalty should be small for low stacks, but start to rise exponentially. This penalty would keep stacking until you lower your block for a full 5 seconds (no blocking at all). This kind of a change would require more strategic blocking in PvP, with players finding windows to lower their guard and reset stacks. Obviously this idea would require a lot more thought to be implemented fairly, but something should be done about perma-blocking in PvP.
TL;DR: Perma-blocking in PvP should create 'block stack' penalties, which increase the stamina requirement per block for a sustained block. This block penalty should continually increase until the player does not block for a full 5 seconds, resetting the stack. Such a change would have no effect on PvE, which is important.
NO.Leave my dk alone. I spent 3million gold theory crafting the best permablocking DPS dk for PvP,and you won't take that away from me!LvL50 Stamina Templar(EP)
LvL50 Stamina Sorcerer(EP)
LvL50 Magicka Templar(EP)
LvL 50 Magicka Dragonknight(EP)
LvL 50 Stamina Nightblade(AD)
LvL 50 Magicka Nightblade(EP)
LvL 50 Magicka Sorcerer(EP)
LvL 50 Magicka Dragonknight(EP)
Moved to Vivec
Proud member of Alith
Proud member of Streaking Sorcerers
Proud member of Astrum Tomatoes
Zergs should be zerged down by 1 man armies3 -
Sweetpea704✭✭✭✭It's really not reasonable that any tank build can sustain block defense against 5-10 players almost indefinitely. Special builds shouldn't be required to counter this. But right now that's exactly what happens with 660cp tanks on Vivec (PC cp campaign). It wouldn't be so bad if tanks couldn't do any damage, but they can do crazy damage with ultimates like ferocious leap. Adding an ultimate like bat swarm also gives them decent damage and crazy sustain.
One obvious problem is that blocking works in a 360 degree circle... Blocks shouldn't count when hit from behind. However, we can't really fix that because this would nerf PvE tanks. Being both a PvE and a PvP player, I'm really tired of Zenimax nerfing things for PvP which affect PvE. It's time to start separating the two streams.
I would suggest that blocking in PvP incur increasing penalties for sustained blocking. In this sense, each blocked attack would add a 'block penalty stack'. The higher the stack number, the greater the stamina cost per block. The stamina penalty should be small for low stacks, but start to rise exponentially. This penalty would keep stacking until you lower your block for a full 5 seconds (no blocking at all). This kind of a change would require more strategic blocking in PvP, with players finding windows to lower their guard and reset stacks. Obviously this idea would require a lot more thought to be implemented fairly, but something should be done about perma-blocking in PvP.
TL;DR: Perma-blocking in PvP should create 'block stack' penalties, which increase the stamina requirement per block for a sustained block. This block penalty should continually increase until the player does not block for a full 5 seconds, resetting the stack. Such a change would have no effect on PvE, which is important.
Put resource poisons on your weapons. That is how you can kill them. But, I don't care if they can perma-block because those builds can't kill me. I can't kill them, they can't kill me. I just ignore them. The cheaters who can perma-block and still kill you with high burst damage? That bothers me.
1 -
Olen_Mikko✭✭✭✭✭
✭You don't need special build. Just correct timing of fear.
Builds like these are meant for trolling. Don't chase them.NB enthusiastic:- Woodhippie stamblade - DW hard-hitter / PvE
- Know-it-all elf Magblade - Healer / PvE & PvP
- Hate-them-all elf Magblade - Destrostaff AoE monster / PvE
- Cyrodiil-Refugee stamblade - Stamina Tank / PvE
Go dominion or go home
Nightblade-Hipster. I played Nightblade before it was cool - from 1.5 onwards.1 -
It's really not reasonable that any tank build can sustain block defense against 5-10 players almost indefinitely. Special builds shouldn't be required to counter this. But right now that's exactly what happens with 660cp tanks on Vivec (PC cp campaign). It wouldn't be so bad if tanks couldn't do any damage, but they can do crazy damage with ultimates like ferocious leap. Adding an ultimate like bat swarm also gives them decent damage and crazy sustain.
One obvious problem is that blocking works in a 360 degree circle... Blocks shouldn't count when hit from behind. However, we can't really fix that because this would nerf PvE tanks. Being both a PvE and a PvP player, I'm really tired of Zenimax nerfing things for PvP which affect PvE. It's time to start separating the two streams.
I would suggest that blocking in PvP incur increasing penalties for sustained blocking. In this sense, each blocked attack would add a 'block penalty stack'. The higher the stack number, the greater the stamina cost per block. The stamina penalty should be small for low stacks, but start to rise exponentially. This penalty would keep stacking until you lower your block for a full 5 seconds (no blocking at all). This kind of a change would require more strategic blocking in PvP, with players finding windows to lower their guard and reset stacks. Obviously this idea would require a lot more thought to be implemented fairly, but something should be done about perma-blocking in PvP.
TL;DR: Perma-blocking in PvP should create 'block stack' penalties, which increase the stamina requirement per block for a sustained block. This block penalty should continually increase until the player does not block for a full 5 seconds, resetting the stack. Such a change would have no effect on PvE, which is important.
many counters to a perma block tank ...
and even if they introduced your suggestion different equally as strong builds would surface and yeah they would have to do more nerfing in the long run ... welcome to the sandbox game cant beat a tank well solution is simple dont .. move on ... it aint as if a perma block tank is gona kill you .. unless ofc your bads
Edited by karldavy149b16_ESO on August 21, 2017 1:18PM0 -
WaltherCarraway✭✭✭✭✭Must have fapped at Blob's permablocking video for so long.
Such build deal 0 damage, have several counters; yet people are still sending QQ post about permablock ability which has been nerfed after morrowind. These complains have already defamed dragonknight users. Thank you. I don't want people saying stuff like you all dragonknight permablocking skyrim fanboys. Thank you!Edited by WaltherCarraway on August 21, 2017 1:26PMBack from my last hiatus. 2021 a new start.4 -
Hurika✭✭✭✭Why not....
Block is 360 degrees in pve (no change from now)
Block is 180 degrees in pvp - adds a skill requirement of positioning and keeping your enemies in front of you instead of "glue down the block key". Against 1-2 it won't have any impact. Against 5-6 blocking becomes a challenge and takes more skill.1 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WaltherCarraway wrote: »Must have fapped at Blob's permablocking video for so long.
Such build deal 0 damage, have several counters; yet people are still sending QQ post about permablock ability which has been nerfed after morrowind. These complains have already defamed dragonknight users. Thank you. I don't want people saying stuff like you all dragonknight permablocking skyrim fanboys. Thank you!
Tbh Morrowind imporved permablocking on magDK thx for increased amount of stamina You restore from Helping Hands and Battle Roar.0 -
CaffeinatedMayhem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Why not....
Block is 360 degrees in pve (no change from now)
Block is 180 degrees in pvp - adds a skill requirement of positioning and keeping your enemies in front of you instead of "glue down the block key". Against 1-2 it won't have any impact. Against 5-6 blocking becomes a challenge and takes more skill.
Thank you for posting an idea for perma-block that doesn't screw PvE tanks.
And I do like this idea, but I doubt it would get implemented.0 -
Universe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think your idea may be overkill to tanks.
I have a simple solution that might work but won't destroy tank/s builds entirely.
Shadow Ward champion star: Reduces the cost of Block by [x]%.
I believe it will be enough to nerf the bonus of Shadow ward champion passive by 30-40%, then the block cost will be much higher.Some videos I recorded for fun: Main character:
PC EU main: Universe - AD magicka Sorcerer, Former Emperor, Grand Overlord, The Merciless, Trial Bosses Solo Champion
Top alts: Genius(stamina/sagicka Dragonknight) The Force(stamina Nightblade) and other chars.
PC NA main: The Magic - AD magicka Sorcerer
Started playing ESO in beta & early access
User_ID: Daedric_Prince0 -
xenowarrior92eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's really not reasonable that any tank build can sustain block defense against 5-10 players almost indefinitely. Special builds shouldn't be required to counter this. But right now that's exactly what happens with 660cp tanks on Vivec (PC cp campaign). It wouldn't be so bad if tanks couldn't do any damage, but they can do crazy damage with ultimates like ferocious leap. Adding an ultimate like bat swarm also gives them decent damage and crazy sustain.
One obvious problem is that blocking works in a 360 degree circle... Blocks shouldn't count when hit from behind. However, we can't really fix that because this would nerf PvE tanks. Being both a PvE and a PvP player, I'm really tired of Zenimax nerfing things for PvP which affect PvE. It's time to start separating the two streams.
I would suggest that blocking in PvP incur increasing penalties for sustained blocking. In this sense, each blocked attack would add a 'block penalty stack'. The higher the stack number, the greater the stamina cost per block. The stamina penalty should be small for low stacks, but start to rise exponentially. This penalty would keep stacking until you lower your block for a full 5 seconds (no blocking at all). This kind of a change would require more strategic blocking in PvP, with players finding windows to lower their guard and reset stacks. Obviously this idea would require a lot more thought to be implemented fairly, but something should be done about perma-blocking in PvP.
TL;DR: Perma-blocking in PvP should create 'block stack' penalties, which increase the stamina requirement per block for a sustained block. This block penalty should continually increase until the player does not block for a full 5 seconds, resetting the stack. Such a change would have no effect on PvE, which is important.
ever heard of stamina draining poison bro? also u can just light attack like a *** until the blocking scrub gets 0 stam...rly u ppl know nothing.1 -
Honghua✭✭✭The meta is the problem not the shields or blocking itself.
It is highly recomended in any DPS build to stack up as much crits and penetration as possible nowadays, which does jack [snip] in pvp against anyone that uses shield or is a tank with shield.
A giant part of the community sacrifices weapon/spell damage and magicka/stamina to afford 70% crit chance or so, trying to use debuffing abilities and using penetration instead of just doing raw and smart damage, while the tank has mitigation equipped. And then we are seeing jerks walking around with 2k spell or weapon damage with no resources, unable to take down 10k magicka shield or a tank with 13k stamina, give me a break really.
Just because you see those high numbers on a training dummy doesnt mean it will work at pvp against stationary blocking tank.
But hey, i do 40k dps on a training dummy, any tank in pvp should melt in 2 seconds right? WRONG.
[Edited to remove profanity masking]Edited by ZOS_KatP on November 5, 2017 9:00PM1 -
WaltherCarraway✭✭✭✭✭WaltherCarraway wrote: »Must have fapped at Blob's permablocking video for so long.
Such build deal 0 damage, have several counters; yet people are still sending QQ post about permablock ability which has been nerfed after morrowind. These complains have already defamed dragonknight users. Thank you. I don't want people saying stuff like you all dragonknight permablocking skyrim fanboys. Thank you!
Tbh Morrowind imporved permablocking on magDK thx for increased amount of stamina You restore from Helping Hands and Battle Roar.
990 stam flat from any of 5 skills generally cost 2600-3500 mag is a buff. You keep going buddy.Edited by WaltherCarraway on August 21, 2017 1:57PMBack from my last hiatus. 2021 a new start.0
