Why DC lose?

Juli'St

Everyone knows that tastes and strategy, as well as, sometimes (more rarely in the last campaigns) leading groups called 'Fate' (ARS Imperatoria Guild). In one of the past campaigns, I made a topic here about my faction's mistakes - strategic mistakes - trying to show or teach what I learned from older players about tactics and strategy. Today I came across an everyday 'ordinary' situation of this last campaign, something that has been repeated several times and that has consequently defeated DC in recent weeks.

When you are competing for a first place, never 'prevail' from numbers to attack those in 3rd place. And I think DC has taken a lesson and that much in that campaign.

In order to 'boost' his score, DC thought it could or would be easy to score points by attacking AD. His mistake could not be worse, he ended up losing points for not making the EP points down. AD, in turn, struggled to maintain or at least maintain their scrolls. Of course, it had views in EP, provoking a bigger dispute between DC / EP lowering the EP score. This could free the AD scrolls. However, it seems that some DC leaders are not very adept at strategies or good strategies. Thus, they decided to simply ignore a circumstantial 'ally', or rather attack it, thus keeping the EP score intact.

I hope you have learned lessons in this campaign.

Juli'St

...in short, dear: less 'purple' next time.

Publius_Scipio

I'd say DC lost because they didn't have guilds or groups running like EP had running at the times of day that EP did. DC had nothing but scattered souls from morning EDT to about 5-7 pm EDT everyday. While somehow EP was blitzing the map in a coordinated effort at 2-3 pm. VE also wasn't present much somewhere around mid-late cycle. On top of that you had these annoying little elf AD rats keeping on gnawing and scratching on DC's legs. EP had everything east including Alessia, and the AD raids kept going Nikel, Ash, and Glade. Stupid elves.

Telel

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I'd say DC lost because they didn't have guilds or groups running like EP had running at the times of day that EP did. DC had nothing but scattered souls from morning EDT to about 5-7 pm EDT everyday. While somehow EP was blitzing the map in a coordinated effort at 2-3 pm. VE also wasn't present much somewhere around mid-late cycle. On top of that you had these annoying little elf AD rats keeping on gnawing and scratching on DC's legs. EP had everything east including Alessia, and the AD raids kept going Nikel, Ash, and Glade. Stupid elves.

If you'd stay out of brindle...

The mighty 'zuper mega ultra zerg' of two to six would not have to keep pushing Rayles and Glade to keep you out of our empty keeps. We'd instead be eating red meat as it is tastier, and less salty than blueberry.

Also khajiit is not an elf. People who attack khajiit are the elves.

You elf.

Micah_Bayer

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I'd say DC lost because they didn't have guilds or groups running like EP had running at the times of day that EP did. DC had nothing but scattered souls from morning EDT to about 5-7 pm EDT everyday. While somehow EP was blitzing the map in a coordinated effort at 2-3 pm. VE also wasn't present much somewhere around mid-late cycle. On top of that you had these annoying little elf AD rats keeping on gnawing and scratching on DC's legs. EP had everything east including Alessia, and the AD raids kept going Nikel, Ash, and Glade. Stupid elves.

DC lost because of me.

CyrusArya

That's a very eloquent way of saying DC=marginal scum eso zerg .

pcar944

that's funny, DC lost because not enough organized groups prime time, and during down times - which happens - but EP night capped the map just a couple days ago and was able to build a HUGE lead

as far as AD goes, don't know whats going on with your side, sometimes you guys log in and roll the whole map, sometimes you get doored by EP so hard, cant help but feel bad

Rohamad_Ali

pcar944 wrote: »

that's funny, DC lost because not enough organized groups prime time, and during down times - which happens - but EP night capped the map just a couple days ago and was able to build a HUGE lead

as far as AD goes, don't know whats going on with your side, sometimes you guys log in and roll the whole map, sometimes you get doored by EP so hard, cant help but feel bad

We were grinding bis gear only to find out it was not not bis at live . Wrobel won this campaign .

Scyantific

I hear DC has all their forces tied up in winning Sotha.

pcar944

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

pcar944 wrote: »

that's funny, DC lost because not enough organized groups prime time, and during down times - which happens - but EP night capped the map just a couple days ago and was able to build a HUGE lead

as far as AD goes, don't know whats going on with your side, sometimes you guys log in and roll the whole map, sometimes you get doored by EP so hard, cant help but feel bad

We were grinding bis gear only to find out it was not not bis at live . Wrobel won this campaign .

hahah it felt like lots of players weren't there, hopefully all done and it will be another close camp like before

Telel

pcar944 wrote: »

that's funny, DC lost because not enough organized groups prime time, and during down times - which happens - but EP night capped the map just a couple days ago and was able to build a HUGE lead

as far as AD goes, don't know whats going on with your side, sometimes you guys log in and roll the whole map, sometimes you get doored by EP so hard, cant help but feel bad

7 to 9 bars of team purple* vs an aeverage 1 to 2 bars of people actually trying to PVP on the AD faction. It makes for somewhat inconsistent performance.

* = number includes players using AD alts to rack up easy AP on the bridge, chat spies, scroll trolls, and that one group that just follows Iskra around to harass him when he dies. Yes, there really is a group of degenerates who do that.

CyrusArya

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

We were grinding bis gear only to find out it was not not bis at live . Wrobel won this campaign .

I don't think there necessarily is a best in slot anymore, rather many routes to get the results you want- whatever they may be.

So in that regard, yeah, I'd say he did.

Abram

This post is marginal.

Publius_Scipio

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I'd say DC lost because they didn't have guilds or groups running like EP had running at the times of day that EP did. DC had nothing but scattered souls from morning EDT to about 5-7 pm EDT everyday. While somehow EP was blitzing the map in a coordinated effort at 2-3 pm. VE also wasn't present much somewhere around mid-late cycle. On top of that you had these annoying little elf AD rats keeping on gnawing and scratching on DC's legs. EP had everything east including Alessia, and the AD raids kept going Nikel, Ash, and Glade. Stupid elves.

DC lost because of me.

You embarrassed the COVENANT. And you embarrassed yourself.

ssewallb14_ESO

Ackwalan

So what you are saying is, when a campaign is AvAvA, DC does poorly. Guess you better stick with the AAvA campaigns.

pcar944

DC is also very reluctant to make groups to cap rezes, or when DC gets focused they are not willing to do what EP and AD do - and that is go to the enemy's back keeps etc

Elong

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

That's a bingo!

Rohamad_Ali

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

You are missing a lot of skyshards .

Vizier

DC on PC / NA / Vivec has love affair with Chalamo. They will literally be there for hours skirmishing outside the West Wall without setting up siege. In the meantime legit efforts to take or defend Ash, home keeps, Dragonclaw fail due to lack of numbers.

DC does stupid stuff. For instance when they have some success and are holding Chal to Ash despite not having the numbers, the one or two active guilds run off to take Drakelow, then get stuck over there while all their keeps get rolled up.

DC allows for EP to dominate Bruma. The location is a strategic must. It is better situated to best control the center of the Northern Side. Dragonclaw , Ales, Chal and Bleakers. By contrast Vlastarus and Cropsford are Deep to the South and less ideal for controlling the center of their respective sides. Water seeks the path of least resistance. The general landscape and things like Bruma's location keep the predominance of the fighting in the North West of Cyrodiil by both AD and EP. It's not even questionable. Combine all this with DC's loose but effective organization...it takes it''s toll.

EP has taken advantage of the above very well through good organization, constant pressure with consistent multiple zergs and small groups with goals. AND no question.

maxjapank

pcar944 wrote: »

that's funny, DC lost because not enough organized groups prime time, and during down times - which happens - but EP night capped the map just a couple days ago and was able to build a HUGE lead

as far as AD goes, don't know whats going on with your side, sometimes you guys log in and roll the whole map, sometimes you get doored by EP so hard, cant help but feel bad

Pretty much this. And during times when AD had an Oceanic presence, they seemed very content on pushing blue even though red was in the lead. The rivalry between blue and red, and blue and yellow are still quite strong.

WaltherCarraway

Vizier wrote: »

DC on PC / NA / Vivec has love affair with Chalamo. They will literally be there for hours skirmishing outside the West Wall without setting up siege. In the meantime legit efforts to take or defend Ash, home keeps, Dragonclaw fail due to lack of numbers.

DC does stupid stuff. For instance when they have some success and are holding Chal to Ash despite not having the numbers, the one or two active guilds run off to take Drakelow, then get stuck over there while all their keeps get rolled up.

DC allows for EP to dominate Bruma. The location is a strategic must. It is better situated to best control the center of the Northern Side. Dragonclaw , Ales, Chal and Bleakers. By contrast Vlastarus and Cropsford are Deep to the South and less ideal for controlling the center of their respective sides. Water seeks the path of least resistance. The general landscape and things like Bruma's location keep the predominance of the fighting in the North West of Cyrodiil by both AD and EP. It's not even questionable. Combine all this with DC's loose but effective organization...it takes it''s toll.

EP has taken advantage of the above very well through good organization, constant pressure with consistent multiple zergs and small groups with goals. AND no question.

By average, EP's PUG is the most ungeared, disorganized and inexperienced of all.

DC did not do well, nothing else to blame

zyk

IMO, the double AP event set a tone of AP gain vs map play that carried through right until the end. I think this also dictated which factions players chose to play for.

There are groups that always or usually play for AP, but for quite some time there were groups that I've never noticed as AP motivated setup farms or choose an easy pvdoor contrary to play the map would dictate -- which is usually to promote a double-team on the leading faction.

I believe DC was easily the strongest overall faction across all time intervals and would have won with just a little more focus.

chris211

Dc lost because of Kush and other guilds leading groups of organized EP everyday

Vilestride

maxjapank wrote: »

pcar944 wrote: »

that's funny, DC lost because not enough organized groups prime time, and during down times - which happens - but EP night capped the map just a couple days ago and was able to build a HUGE lead

as far as AD goes, don't know whats going on with your side, sometimes you guys log in and roll the whole map, sometimes you get doored by EP so hard, cant help but feel bad

Pretty much this. And during times when AD had an Oceanic presence, they seemed very content on pushing blue even though red was in the lead. The rivalry between blue and red, and blue and yellow are still quite strong.

DC seems to excel at making itself disliked. That goes a long way when towards the end of a campaign a faction that is out of the race for first or even second then can basically choose who they support for the victory.

maxjapank

Vilestride wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

pcar944 wrote: »

that's funny, DC lost because not enough organized groups prime time, and during down times - which happens - but EP night capped the map just a couple days ago and was able to build a HUGE lead

as far as AD goes, don't know whats going on with your side, sometimes you guys log in and roll the whole map, sometimes you get doored by EP so hard, cant help but feel bad

Pretty much this. And during times when AD had an Oceanic presence, they seemed very content on pushing blue even though red was in the lead. The rivalry between blue and red, and blue and yellow are still quite strong.

DC seems to excel at making itself disliked. That goes a long way when towards the end of a campaign a faction that is out of the race for first or even second then can basically choose who they support for the victory.

Agree. And especially when EP and AD barely touch each other. Hard to dislike someone you never engage.

Telel

maxjapank wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

pcar944 wrote: »

that's funny, DC lost because not enough organized groups prime time, and during down times - which happens - but EP night capped the map just a couple days ago and was able to build a HUGE lead

as far as AD goes, don't know whats going on with your side, sometimes you guys log in and roll the whole map, sometimes you get doored by EP so hard, cant help but feel bad

Pretty much this. And during times when AD had an Oceanic presence, they seemed very content on pushing blue even though red was in the lead. The rivalry between blue and red, and blue and yellow are still quite strong.

DC seems to excel at making itself disliked. That goes a long way when towards the end of a campaign a faction that is out of the race for first or even second then can basically choose who they support for the victory.

Agree. And especially when EP and AD barely touch each other. Hard to dislike someone you never engage.

During the last run Telel did on the last night of the campaign we couldn't get any other AD to come help the half dozen of us take even one keep or outpost from DC. All the remaining 2 bars of the Dumbminion were firmly ensconced on Failessia bridge.

This was close to six hours total of PVP.

And the nights before that were much the same. The only time we got any aid was when the PVdoor lords of the Derpaherp Coverlet would try to help the griffs out by attacking our undefended scroll keeps. Again.

And we'd still have to be the ones to do almost all of the siegeing and fighting. Everyone else just came to stand on flags, and then take the resources as we repaired.

Heck Friday night we even swore off bothering with Brindle so we could try and fight some griffs. We got hate tells from the bloops who were over there because they thought we ran away. After we'd wiped them a few times.

Now if you wish to say six(usually less) people were a massive threat to the faction that was pop locked....

Telel will first demand that you insure your nose is not firmly seated anywhere awkward.

As an added bonus this one has footage of both bloop and griff groups coming allllllll the way down to brindle to try and stop the only five AD pushing keeps. And failing. While both were poplocked, and the Dumbminion had 2 bars.

zyk

maxjapank wrote: »

Agree. And especially when EP and AD barely touch each other. Hard to dislike someone you never engage.

Sometimes when I PVP, I play in a 8-16 player group and have little map awareness of my own because I am so focused on my role.

Most other times, I play the map/lanes solo and acutely observe the map. This was true for all nights but one this previous campaign. I usually play sometime between 8PM and 3AM EDT.

After the double AP event ended, EP guilds noticeably stopped pushing south as often. There was a lot of EP activity to the south, but it was mostly by small EP groups and lane randoms. This was actually representative of a lot of EP, but not the larger guilds.

On the contrary, DC guilds pushed Nikel/Roe/Brindle relentlessly throughout the campaign. Random lane pushers might setup siege and flag Ash or take Ash with little resistance occasionally, but for the most part it was not organized AD doing so unless we were trying to get our home keeps back. It was normal to see multiple DC guilds stack and blow through Nikel and Roe like it was nothing. In addition to that, farming AD was also the preference of DC small man groups.

DC lost this campaign because it decided to focus on kicking AD while it was down instead of the leading faction. EP was slightly more disciplined.

MaximillianDiE

Telel wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

pcar944 wrote: »

that's funny, DC lost because not enough organized groups prime time, and during down times - which happens - but EP night capped the map just a couple days ago and was able to build a HUGE lead

as far as AD goes, don't know whats going on with your side, sometimes you guys log in and roll the whole map, sometimes you get doored by EP so hard, cant help but feel bad

Pretty much this. And during times when AD had an Oceanic presence, they seemed very content on pushing blue even though red was in the lead. The rivalry between blue and red, and blue and yellow are still quite strong.

DC seems to excel at making itself disliked. That goes a long way when towards the end of a campaign a faction that is out of the race for first or even second then can basically choose who they support for the victory.

Agree. And especially when EP and AD barely touch each other. Hard to dislike someone you never engage.

During the last run Telel did on the last night of the campaign we couldn't get any other AD to come help the half dozen of us take even one keep or outpost from DC. All the remaining 2 bars of the Dumbminion were firmly ensconced on Failessia bridge.

This was close to six hours total of PVP.

And the nights before that were much the same. The only time we got any aid was when the PVdoor lords of the Derpaherp Coverlet would try to help the griffs out by attacking our undefended scroll keeps. Again.

And we'd still have to be the ones to do almost all of the siegeing and fighting. Everyone else just came to stand on flags, and then take the resources as we repaired.

Heck Friday night we even swore off bothering with Brindle so we could try and fight some griffs. We got hate tells from the bloops who were over there because they thought we ran away. After we'd wiped them a few times.

Now if you wish to say six(usually less) people were a massive threat to the faction that was pop locked....

Telel will first demand that you insure your nose is not firmly seated anywhere awkward.

As an added bonus this one has footage of both bloop and griff groups coming allllllll the way down to brindle to try and stop the only five AD pushing keeps. And failing. While both were poplocked, and the Dumbminion had 2 bars.

Telel it was good to see you and the pups harassing the DC backline keeps. Honestly a lot of us are burnt out on this whole groundhog day affair that the campaign has turned into so like you did that day - we range into AD and EPs backlines simply looking for fun fights against the odds. You've been around for long enough to presumably suffer from the same burn out that a lot of us have so the campaign really means nothing to any more. Go take your small group and look for action away from the mind numbing lag inducing ball groups that cause you to not be able to weapon swap or use skills who will roll over you while spamming the single skill assigned to them by their group leader (all sides have them). It will give you a whole new sense of enjoyment of the game which I hope will be the case as I've always enjoyed your stream and thought of you as a legit foe so it would be a shame to get so burnt out that you quit altogether as have too many of my friends and foes over time now.

Scyantific

Vizier wrote: »

DC on PC/NA in general has love affair with Chalamo.

Fixed that for you.

maxjapank

You all have DC underestimated. Today I watched them valiantly fight to win Roe. The battle was epic. Of course, we lost Chal in the process. And later lost Brindle and Roe again while running back and forth between Bleakers and Chal. But we still won Roe for a while with style.