pvp: everyone is too tanky

boobafinno

Everyone is too tanky in this game, cant kill anyone. I'm more used to kill ppl with 1-2 bullets in games like Arma 3, or Skyrim(with realistics mods), but here some absurds happens everytime: ppl just push 1 button and their hp go up from 1-2% to 90%, some duels occur 30 minutes and thats normal. Furthermore, devs reduced The Shadow mundus to 9% from 12% in last update, which made gank more impossible that it already was before. I don't like it. ZOS should make game more realistic: reduce players survivability.

LegendaryMage

Early we had the elder robes online, now we have the elder tanks online. Such is the way of ESO.

Jeremy

boobafinno wrote: »

Everyone is too tanky in this game, cant kill anyone. I'm more used to kill ppl with 1-2 bullets in games like Arma 3, or Skyrim(with realistics mods), but here some absurds happens everytime: ppl just push 1 button and their hp go up from 1-2% to 90%, some duels occur 30 minutes and thats normal. Furthermore, devs reduced The Shadow mundus to 9% from 12% in last update, which made gank more impossible that it already was before. I don't like it. ZOS should make game more realistic: reduce players survivability.

No thanks.

It's bad enough when you get outnumbered (a frequent occurrence in PvP) and die almost instantly. Allowing single players to kill you in 1 or 2 shots would just make PvP boring and stupid - removing all sense of an actual back and forth combat situation.

There is also nothing wrong with two players being able to draw each other in a duel.. That is actually very realistic - not that realism has anything to do with a fantasy MMORPG where players are shooting fireballs or rising from the dead in the first place.

bardx86

boobafinno wrote: »

Everyone is too tanky in this game, cant kill anyone. I'm more used to kill ppl with 1-2 bullets in games like Arma 3, or Skyrim(with realistics mods), but here some absurds happens everytime: ppl just push 1 button and their hp go up from 1-2% to 90%, some duels occur 30 minutes and thats normal. Furthermore, devs reduced The Shadow mundus to 9% from 12% in last update, which made gank more impossible that it already was before. I don't like it. ZOS should make game more realistic: reduce players survivability.

I agree to an extent as well, its a bit to much. 1-2 bullets is to far the other way but some builds can literally just stand and take all the damage i output and not have to even counter.

JamieAubrey

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Early we had the elder robes online, now we have the elder tanks online. Such is the way of ESO.

Dont forget Elder Staves Online

Tryxus

Malic

yes its killed my bombblade game play, I mean I can get kills but nothing like it used to be, lol

Waffennacht

Tryxus wrote: »

I'm totally stealing this image

casparian

While I suspect that HotR is going to see an increasingly defensively focused meta in PVP, and while I agree with you that the recent nerfs to burst have been overly heavy-handed, you're doing yourselves no favors in your presentation, OP. It's not useful to point out that time-to-kill in ESO is different from time-to-kill in Skyrim that you have modded to your tastes, and even less useful to point that it's different from time-to-kill in FPS games. ESO isn't and shouldn't be like an FPS.

Shadeaux

You still have DK Tanks being able to withstand 10 people beating on them for a LONG time.

All the "fixes" implemented for this still haven't worked.

And yes, I am salty that I don't know how they are doing it :-)

Kartalin

Shadeaux wrote: »

You still have DK Tanks being able to withstand 10 people beating on them for a LONG time.

All the "fixes" implemented for this still haven't worked.

And yes, I am salty that I don't know how they are doing it :-)

Is the tank killing you though? Ignore them until all their friends are dead, use it to recharge ultimate and resources.

Derra

Ganking/sneak leads to tanky builds.
Tanky builds lead to bring more people mentality.

In the end what you´re left with are gankers and very durable larger groups.

Those make pvp for anyone enjoying neither of those playstyles unbearable.

Waffennacht

The only time I've found a tank to be annoying is in BGs, when that DK shows up on that capture flag... I can't get him off (teehee jk)

That's really the only annoying time, even then I could just go on down the road

nCats

Derra wrote: »

Ganking/sneak leads to tanky builds.
Tanky builds lead to bring more people mentality.

In the end what you´re left with are gankers and very durable larger groups.

Those make pvp for anyone enjoying neither of those playstyles unbearable.

Pretty much. Tried to be honourable in Sotha the other day, leaving players alone, they just come back and xv1; doesn't matter what their pvp rank is, the xv1 is still their preferred solution. Some people dislike that and they equip various defensive measures.

Having said that I think some defensive tools need adjustment. Resto Ult is too strong for the price, Corrosive Armor is kind of the opposite (I even think we need a more interesting morph option), 1hs ult is kind of ok but may need just a slight price boost.

Some offensive tools need adjustments too. Say, a stam DK has noxious breath, but it is dodgeable AoE (what? maybe I will write about that) with clunky animation, so often applying major fracture is difficult. A stam sorc simply enjoys 5% more damage with no strings attached. And we can go on.

Drdeath20

This games pvp needs a do-over, too much wrong to balance any kind of actual sensible change

Waffennacht

Just wanted to say, it annoys the hell out of me to get hate whispers about thicket.

What am I suppose to slot the Bear?!

Apparently SA is frowned upon and I already got DboS slotted.

It's either ticket or storm, and I already have an offensive Ult...

So it's gonna be Thicket. Deal with it

WaltherCarraway

No,

We just don't want to get sniped by 5 different nightblades from stealth after stepping out a keep while we can't do nothing about it.

Derra

Waffennacht wrote: »

Just wanted to say, it annoys the hell out of me to get hate whispers about thicket.

What am I suppose to slot the Bear?!

Apparently SA is frowned upon and I already got DboS slotted.

It's either ticket or storm, and I already have an offensive Ult...

So it's gonna be Thicket. Deal with it

The problem is generally speaking as far as normal skills go:
Offensive is cheaper than defensive (only looking at skillcost).

For ultimates it´s the opposite.
1h+Shield ultimate, Resto ultimate, Warden heal and yeah even remembrance are in their defensive potential in no relation to what offensive ultimate provide for the same cost.
Defense needs to cost more than offense.

The only offensive ultimate that comes close is incap.

Toc de Malsvi

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

No,

We just don't want to get sniped by 5 different nightblades from stealth after stepping out a keep while we can't do nothing about it.

Far away on a mystical mountain there are monks who teach of the legendary technique called "dodge roll". It is famed that such a technique allows one to avoid endless hauls of arrows without suffering a scratch. If one has the patience to suffer the monks training and learn this technique, one will never fear Snipe again.

Waffennacht

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

No,

We just don't want to get sniped by 5 different nightblades from stealth after stepping out a keep while we can't do nothing about it.

Far away on a mystical mountain there are monks who teach of the legendary technique called "dodge roll". It is famed that such a technique allows one to avoid endless hauls of arrows without suffering a scratch. If one has the patience to suffer the monks training and learn this technique, one will never fear Snipe again.

We console players don't get Miatt's and the whole music thing doesn't work when the game decides to play the combat music non stop (bug on console - really annoying - esp in town crafting)

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Just wanted to say, it annoys the hell out of me to get hate whispers about thicket.

What am I suppose to slot the Bear?!

Apparently SA is frowned upon and I already got DboS slotted.

It's either ticket or storm, and I already have an offensive Ult...

So it's gonna be Thicket. Deal with it

The problem is generally speaking as far as normal skills go:
Offensive is cheaper than defensive (only looking at skillcost).

For ultimates it´s the opposite.
1h+Shield ultimate, Resto ultimate, Warden heal and yeah even remembrance are in their defensive potential in no relation to what offensive ultimate provide for the same cost.
Defense needs to cost more than offense.

The only offensive ultimate that comes close is incap.

My point is: As a Warden, practically every ult that I have access to is either worthless in PvP (bear) or OP. There is no "not using OP abilities" as an option.

So to get hate mail for using the only ult sucks.

For me, it's either thicket or SnB ult - both of which gets hate mail, I personally feel thicket is less OP than SnB, you can defile thicket

Toc de Malsvi

Waffennacht wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

No,

We just don't want to get sniped by 5 different nightblades from stealth after stepping out a keep while we can't do nothing about it.

Far away on a mystical mountain there are monks who teach of the legendary technique called "dodge roll". It is famed that such a technique allows one to avoid endless hauls of arrows without suffering a scratch. If one has the patience to suffer the monks training and learn this technique, one will never fear Snipe again.

We console players don't get Miatt's and the whole music thing doesn't work when the game decides to play the combat music non stop (bug on console - really annoying - esp in town crafting)

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Just wanted to say, it annoys the hell out of me to get hate whispers about thicket.

What am I suppose to slot the Bear?!

Apparently SA is frowned upon and I already got DboS slotted.

It's either ticket or storm, and I already have an offensive Ult...

So it's gonna be Thicket. Deal with it

The problem is generally speaking as far as normal skills go:
Offensive is cheaper than defensive (only looking at skillcost).

For ultimates it´s the opposite.
1h+Shield ultimate, Resto ultimate, Warden heal and yeah even remembrance are in their defensive potential in no relation to what offensive ultimate provide for the same cost.
Defense needs to cost more than offense.

The only offensive ultimate that comes close is incap.

My point is: As a Warden, practically every ult that I have access to is either worthless in PvP (bear) or OP. There is no "not using OP abilities" as an option.

So to get hate mail for using the only ult sucks.

For me, it's either thicket or SnB ult - both of which gets hate mail, I personally feel thicket is less OP than SnB, you can defile thicket

I play on console. You can hear an audible sound from snipe if it is targeted at you and that is completely unrelated to combat music.

Regardless a single snipe is not going to kill you and there is a guaranteed delay of 1 second between snipes. One dodge roll negates any and all snipes in the air, as well as any currently being cast.

I have not died to snipe ganking in years... literally years...

Worst case scenario is you lag out and are dead before anything is displayed to you, this happens though with everything and is in no way limited to a function of snipe. It happens with all combat attacks if you lag out you are dead.

Don't even need to dodge roll, as shown by the prevalence of magsorc and mag templars who don't even bother and just block cast shields/heals. Other classes can do the same but those two are the most likely to just block cast.

Snipe can hit you only once per second, and it cannot one shot kill you unless you literally are on the worst build ever running around with 14k health.

Templars can do the same thing only better with Dark Flare into radiant.

Complaining about Snipe in the current state of the game is purely L2P.

Waffennacht

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

No,

We just don't want to get sniped by 5 different nightblades from stealth after stepping out a keep while we can't do nothing about it.

Far away on a mystical mountain there are monks who teach of the legendary technique called "dodge roll". It is famed that such a technique allows one to avoid endless hauls of arrows without suffering a scratch. If one has the patience to suffer the monks training and learn this technique, one will never fear Snipe again.

We console players don't get Miatt's and the whole music thing doesn't work when the game decides to play the combat music non stop (bug on console - really annoying - esp in town crafting)

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Just wanted to say, it annoys the hell out of me to get hate whispers about thicket.

What am I suppose to slot the Bear?!

Apparently SA is frowned upon and I already got DboS slotted.

It's either ticket or storm, and I already have an offensive Ult...

So it's gonna be Thicket. Deal with it

The problem is generally speaking as far as normal skills go:
Offensive is cheaper than defensive (only looking at skillcost).

For ultimates it´s the opposite.
1h+Shield ultimate, Resto ultimate, Warden heal and yeah even remembrance are in their defensive potential in no relation to what offensive ultimate provide for the same cost.
Defense needs to cost more than offense.

The only offensive ultimate that comes close is incap.

My point is: As a Warden, practically every ult that I have access to is either worthless in PvP (bear) or OP. There is no "not using OP abilities" as an option.

So to get hate mail for using the only ult sucks.

For me, it's either thicket or SnB ult - both of which gets hate mail, I personally feel thicket is less OP than SnB, you can defile thicket

I play on console. You can hear an audible sound from snipe if it is targeted at you and that is completely unrelated to combat music.

Regardless a single snipe is not going to kill you and there is a guaranteed delay of 1 second between snipes. One dodge roll negates any and all snipes in the air, as well as any currently being cast.

I have not died to snipe ganking in years... literally years...

Worst case scenario is you lag out and are dead before anything is displayed to you, this happens though with everything and is in no way limited to a function of snipe. It happens with all combat attacks if you lag out you are dead.

Don't even need to dodge roll, as shown by the prevalence of magsorc and mag templars who don't even bother and just block cast shields/heals. Other classes can do the same but those two are the most likely to just block cast.

Snipe can hit you only once per second, and it cannot one shot kill you unless you literally are on the worst build ever running around with 14k health.

Templars can do the same thing only better with Dark Flare into radiant.

Complaining about Snipe in the current state of the game is purely L2P.

He said 5 Snipes at once - the context of his message clearly is about how he doesn't want to instantly die, it doesn't matter to what.

Clearly he was just using snipe as an example, and you got fixated on the ability named.

Same with me, my comments aren't purely directed at snipe (btw I've never heard the que for it) but towards the whole, "being nuked by X in 2 secs"

This is why we wear heavy, not just to counter a single ability, but the 20k + DMG combos

Drakkdjinn

Try No CP campaigns -- tanky peeps don't have as many training wheels in there.

LegacyDM

boobafinno wrote: »

Everyone is too tanky in this game, cant kill anyone. I'm more used to kill ppl with 1-2 bullets in games like Arma 3, or Skyrim(with realistics mods), but here some absurds happens everytime: ppl just push 1 button and their hp go up from 1-2% to 90%, some duels occur 30 minutes and thats normal. Furthermore, devs reduced The Shadow mundus to 9% from 12% in last update, which made gank more impossible that it already was before. I don't like it. ZOS should make game more realistic: reduce players survivability.

Try the no cp campaign sotha sil. It's more balanced.

LegacyDM

Kartalin wrote: »

Shadeaux wrote: »

You still have DK Tanks being able to withstand 10 people beating on them for a LONG time.

All the "fixes" implemented for this still haven't worked.

And yes, I am salty that I don't know how they are doing it :-)

Is the tank killing you though? Ignore them until all their friends are dead, use it to recharge ultimate and resources.

DK tanks are absorbing a lot of damage and stil dishing out competitive damage with crazy sustain. No wonder there has been a huge increase in people playing dk in cp campaign.

Betsararie

Would have to disagree. The majority of players are more than killable.

The problem is a specific type of tank, perma block tank build that does not make any effort to fight.

In a game mode that is solely about fighting and killing other players, a build like this is counterproductive.

IlCanis_LupuslI

boobafinno wrote: »

Everyone is too tanky in this game, cant kill anyone. I'm more used to kill ppl with 1-2 bullets in games like Arma 3, or Skyrim(with realistics mods), but here some absurds happens everytime: ppl just push 1 button and their hp go up from 1-2% to 90%, some duels occur 30 minutes and thats normal. Furthermore, devs reduced The Shadow mundus to 9% from 12% in last update, which made gank more impossible that it already was before. I don't like it. ZOS should make game more realistic: reduce players survivability.

Clearly a L2P issue..... Sorry there is no easy way to kill someone.. youll have 2 work for it. I personally have no issues killing any player.....

IlCanis_LupuslI

Waffennacht wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

No,

We just don't want to get sniped by 5 different nightblades from stealth after stepping out a keep while we can't do nothing about it.

Far away on a mystical mountain there are monks who teach of the legendary technique called "dodge roll". It is famed that such a technique allows one to avoid endless hauls of arrows without suffering a scratch. If one has the patience to suffer the monks training and learn this technique, one will never fear Snipe again.

We console players don't get Miatt's and the whole music thing doesn't work when the game decides to play the combat music non stop (bug on console - really annoying - esp in town crafting)

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Just wanted to say, it annoys the hell out of me to get hate whispers about thicket.

What am I suppose to slot the Bear?!

Apparently SA is frowned upon and I already got DboS slotted.

It's either ticket or storm, and I already have an offensive Ult...

So it's gonna be Thicket. Deal with it

The problem is generally speaking as far as normal skills go:
Offensive is cheaper than defensive (only looking at skillcost).

For ultimates it´s the opposite.
1h+Shield ultimate, Resto ultimate, Warden heal and yeah even remembrance are in their defensive potential in no relation to what offensive ultimate provide for the same cost.
Defense needs to cost more than offense.

The only offensive ultimate that comes close is incap.

My point is: As a Warden, practically every ult that I have access to is either worthless in PvP (bear) or OP. There is no "not using OP abilities" as an option.

So to get hate mail for using the only ult sucks.

For me, it's either thicket or SnB ult - both of which gets hate mail, I personally feel thicket is less OP than SnB, you can defile thicket

I literally stopped playing Warden. To much hate in pvp even when your 1vsxing and after killing 2 or 3 the rest destro bombs you and then tbag. every single time. with my nb i have more damage and same tankyness anyway soooooo easyest descion ever. Way less hate and more kills.

Laggus

Kartalin wrote: »

Shadeaux wrote: »

You still have DK Tanks being able to withstand 10 people beating on them for a LONG time.

All the "fixes" implemented for this still haven't worked.

And yes, I am salty that I don't know how they are doing it :-)

Is the tank killing you though? Ignore them until all their friends are dead, use it to recharge ultimate and resources.

I think the point is all of the tanks friends are tanks now as well. There's too little trade off for going tanky, their damage output is too high. They can have their cake and eat it. Lower their damage a bit and there will be lots of bored tanks that can't kill anymore. Then perhaps there will be far less of them and we get more diversity in builds.

Another simple fix would be to slow them down. Don't allow speed buffs when wearing 5 pieces or more of heavy armour. Only allow them walk and even slow their walk speed down versus medium and light armour wearers. They are wearing heavy armour after all. Again, I know a lot of tanks will not like that gameplay and change builds introducing more diversity, which is a good thing in general. True tanks (the type that are not killing anyone without help) would be uneffected really and can still play their builds.

IlCanis_LupuslI

Laggus wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Shadeaux wrote: »

You still have DK Tanks being able to withstand 10 people beating on them for a LONG time.

All the "fixes" implemented for this still haven't worked.

And yes, I am salty that I don't know how they are doing it :-)

Is the tank killing you though? Ignore them until all their friends are dead, use it to recharge ultimate and resources.

I think the point is all of the tanks friends are tanks now as well. There's too little trade off for going tanky, their damage output is too high. They can have their cake and eat it. Lower their damage a bit and there will be lots of bored tanks that can't kill anymore. Then perhaps there will be far less of them and we get more diversity in builds.

Another simple fix would be to slow them down. Don't allow speed buffs when wearing 5 pieces or more of heavy armour. Only allow them walk and even slow their walk speed down versus medium and light armour wearers. They are wearing heavy armour after all. Again, I know a lot of tanks will not like that gameplay and change builds introducing more diversity, which is a good thing in general. True tanks (the type that are not killing anyone without help) would be uneffected really and can still play their builds.


Ever tried Major defile????? I never have any problems killing tanky builds with that... just keep it up on them 24/7 and they will die..... L2P issue...

Edziu

Derra wrote: »

Ganking/sneak leads to tanky builds.
Tanky builds lead to bring more people mentality.

In the end what you´re left with are gankers and very durable larger groups.

Those make pvp for anyone enjoying neither of those playstyles unbearable.

at all if I good remember tank meta starded when proc sets to ganlb;ade growth to powercreep 1shot everything what isnt blazeplar because this seriously has no counter to play while normal true ganking without proc sets wasnt that unhealthy to game like proctardblades

and tot his thread....yes, this is to annyoing how everyone is tankly and then glass cannon who is trying to attack this tank (glasscannon without proc sets) he will also get rekt because at all his pure damage build will be not enough to kill this tank because this tank will just tank it lol and he have enough damage to not only defeat his attacks...he will just rekt him