pvp: everyone is too tanky

Betsararie

LegacyDM wrote: »

boobafinno wrote: »

Everyone is too tanky in this game, cant kill anyone. I'm more used to kill ppl with 1-2 bullets in games like Arma 3, or Skyrim(with realistics mods), but here some absurds happens everytime: ppl just push 1 button and their hp go up from 1-2% to 90%, some duels occur 30 minutes and thats normal. Furthermore, devs reduced The Shadow mundus to 9% from 12% in last update, which made gank more impossible that it already was before. I don't like it. ZOS should make game more realistic: reduce players survivability.

Try the no cp campaign sotha sil. It's more balanced.

I wish more people would play. I don't know what it is

It really is such a better experience playing without CP. I understand people get used to their CP, but what happens when you are forced to only play off your build and your abilities? No CP is where it's at, but that does not seem to be the consensus among many people.

Personally I do not want to go back to CP. The unfortunate fact is Sotha Sil is dead- people clinging to their CP.

Last patch people would counter with, no CP is unbalanced due to proc sets, but that wasn't necessarily true because they were more than counterable. Proc sets were broken, but by no means an 'automatic win'. They weren't even close to that.

Still so many people running Skoria and it is not something that I would consider to be a very strong factor. Of course it is very good, but I would not advocate for a nerf.

Unfortunately the majority of the playerbase is interested in CP in PvP.

CatchMeTrolling

As a small scale player I can say these days you fight zergs of tanky player's, it wasn't like that before.

It's not a l2p issue it's just pretty evident people are more tanky & have a minimum health pool between 25k-30k health.

RadRzRg

boobafinno wrote: »

Everyone is too tanky in this game, cant kill anyone. I'm more used to kill ppl with 1-2 bullets in games like Arma 3, or Skyrim(with realistics mods), but here some absurds happens everytime: ppl just push 1 button and their hp go up from 1-2% to 90%, some duels occur 30 minutes and thats normal. Furthermore, devs reduced The Shadow mundus to 9% from 12% in last update, which made gank more impossible that it already was before. I don't like it. ZOS should make game more realistic: reduce players survivability.

I think this is coming from a ganker. If the game was faster it would have NO element of skill. Are there truly annoying tanks?YES. Are there truly annoying DDs zerging?YES. Posts like these nerfed block's cost.

Johnnny

nCats wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Ganking/sneak leads to tanky builds.
Tanky builds lead to bring more people mentality.

In the end what you´re left with are gankers and very durable larger groups.

Those make pvp for anyone enjoying neither of those playstyles unbearable.

Pretty much. Tried to be honourable in Sotha the other day, leaving players alone, they just come back and xv1; doesn't matter what their pvp rank is, the xv1 is still their preferred solution. Some people dislike that and they equip various defensive measures.

I'm sorry to tell you that, but your notion of honor is lacking. Killing someone with a group is not dishonorable.

scipionumatia

DK and Templar (tanky classes your referring to) are the most nerfed classes in this game, sorry we don't wanna play horse rider simulator so you can pull off a cheese gank from stealth. block cost increase hurts us and on top of that many of our passives are hardly relevant anymore.
not to mention theres a cap on resistances, no cap on damage. you can have as much damage as you can balance with sustain.

Derra

RadRzRg wrote: »

boobafinno wrote: »

Everyone is too tanky in this game, cant kill anyone. I'm more used to kill ppl with 1-2 bullets in games like Arma 3, or Skyrim(with realistics mods), but here some absurds happens everytime: ppl just push 1 button and their hp go up from 1-2% to 90%, some duels occur 30 minutes and thats normal. Furthermore, devs reduced The Shadow mundus to 9% from 12% in last update, which made gank more impossible that it already was before. I don't like it. ZOS should make game more realistic: reduce players survivability.

I think this is coming from a ganker. If the game was faster it would have NO element of skill. Are there truly annoying tanks?YES. Are there truly annoying DDs zerging?YES. Posts like these nerfed block's cost.

Arguably the game was the most playerskill dependant in patch 1.6 which "coincidentally" had the lowest ttk (without involving procc dmg).

boobafinno

RadRzRg wrote: »

boobafinno wrote: »

Everyone is too tanky in this game, cant kill anyone. I'm more used to kill ppl with 1-2 bullets in games like Arma 3, or Skyrim(with realistics mods), but here some absurds happens everytime: ppl just push 1 button and their hp go up from 1-2% to 90%, some duels occur 30 minutes and thats normal. Furthermore, devs reduced The Shadow mundus to 9% from 12% in last update, which made gank more impossible that it already was before. I don't like it. ZOS should make game more realistic: reduce players survivability.

I think this is coming from a ganker. If the game was faster it would have NO element of skill. Are there truly annoying tanks?YES. Are there truly annoying DDs zerging?YES. Posts like these nerfed block's cost.

u are righ i run pure ganker builds only, and always been ganker. Ppl should die instantly when i come sneaky from their back and hit them. Its realistic and shouldnt be different(shouldnt be like it now).

montjie

lol

Waffennacht

Actually after some experiments last night. You can pretty tank in anything if you build for it.

Wouldn't the counter be the 2H ult now?

ezeepeezee

boobafinno wrote: »

RadRzRg wrote: »

boobafinno wrote: »

Everyone is too tanky in this game, cant kill anyone. I'm more used to kill ppl with 1-2 bullets in games like Arma 3, or Skyrim(with realistics mods), but here some absurds happens everytime: ppl just push 1 button and their hp go up from 1-2% to 90%, some duels occur 30 minutes and thats normal. Furthermore, devs reduced The Shadow mundus to 9% from 12% in last update, which made gank more impossible that it already was before. I don't like it. ZOS should make game more realistic: reduce players survivability.

I think this is coming from a ganker. If the game was faster it would have NO element of skill. Are there truly annoying tanks?YES. Are there truly annoying DDs zerging?YES. Posts like these nerfed block's cost.

u are righ i run pure ganker builds only, and always been ganker. Ppl should die instantly when i come sneaky from their back and hit them. Its realistic and shouldnt be different(shouldnt be like it now).

It's just too easy to be invisible in this game for this to be the case. Sorry. If there were more skill involved I might agree here.

Minno

Waffennacht wrote: »

Actually after some experiments last night. You can pretty tank in anything if you build for it.

Wouldn't the counter be the 2H ult now?

After 22k resistances, and your enemy has 15280 penetration, you'll get 10% mitigation from sources for that resistance.

2h ultimate should be the counter to high resistance builds, but it's dodgable and blocking/shields directly counter it severely.

Mobility will be the direct counter to tank builds since a majority of them are only looking to troll or run in groups where the other members focus you down one by one. This means if you can't run to reset the fight yourself, then all the defenses in the world won't save you.

revonine

The tanky meta is a result of damage fast approaching near 1.6 levels of output but since heavy armor is actually good now people can wear it to counter it, and oh boy are they.

The problem is once again, power creep with that stupid champion system. They'll fix it by "adjusting" battle spirit again in the near future, but it's just a band aid. I'd like to be pleasantly surprised though.

But yes the "hyper-tank's" you see running around cyrodil are only there to troll or are actually control builds for an organised group, ignore them and the build is ultimately rendered useless. Sometimes people in pvp just dumbfound me, they see a guy with 50K HP and try to kill him first while his buddy's all melt your face -_-

Hanzus

ROFL! on this whole situation...crying laughing so hard .

First Magica/sorcs were so over powered, then came all the gank blades, now all are crying about tanks, I'm sorry, just to funny

Waffennacht

Minno wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Actually after some experiments last night. You can pretty tank in anything if you build for it.

Wouldn't the counter be the 2H ult now?

After 22k resistances, and your enemy has 15280 penetration, you'll get 10% mitigation from sources for that resistance.

2h ultimate should be the counter to high resistance builds, but it's dodgable and blocking/shields directly counter it severely.

Mobility will be the direct counter to tank builds since a majority of them are only looking to troll or run in groups where the other members focus you down one by one. This means if you can't run to reset the fight yourself, then all the defenses in the world won't save you.

@Minno so it can be blocked? Nice to know, ty

Minno

Waffennacht wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Actually after some experiments last night. You can pretty tank in anything if you build for it.

Wouldn't the counter be the 2H ult now?

After 22k resistances, and your enemy has 15280 penetration, you'll get 10% mitigation from sources for that resistance.

2h ultimate should be the counter to high resistance builds, but it's dodgable and blocking/shields directly counter it severely.

Mobility will be the direct counter to tank builds since a majority of them are only looking to troll or run in groups where the other members focus you down one by one. This means if you can't run to reset the fight yourself, then all the defenses in the world won't save you.

@Minno so it can be blocked? Nice to know, ty

It should be. Problem though is it's hard to know when they use it if you are distracted lol.

But idk if they changed it this patch. If I remember correctly, it's block able.

Durham

boobafinno wrote: »

Everyone is too tanky in this game, cant kill anyone. I'm more used to kill ppl with 1-2 bullets in games like Arma 3, or Skyrim(with realistics mods), but here some absurds happens everytime: ppl just push 1 button and their hp go up from 1-2% to 90%, some duels occur 30 minutes and thats normal. Furthermore, devs reduced The Shadow mundus to 9% from 12% in last update, which made gank more impossible that it already was before. I don't like it. ZOS should make game more realistic: reduce players survivability.

This is not a first person shooter ... MMO PVP is very different .. people invest so much time in toons.. leveling a toon to 50 just to see him die in 2 secs is not very popular in MMO....

boobafinno

Hanzus wrote: »

ROFL! on this whole situation...crying laughing so hard .

First Magica/sorcs were so over powered, then came all the gank blades, now all are crying about tanks, I'm sorry, just to funny

thats probably crying not only about tanks, but about everyone's survivability. because every one is too tanky: not only tanks.

Durham wrote: »

boobafinno wrote: »

Everyone is too tanky in this game, cant kill anyone. I'm more used to kill ppl with 1-2 bullets in games like Arma 3, or Skyrim(with realistics mods), but here some absurds happens everytime: ppl just push 1 button and their hp go up from 1-2% to 90%, some duels occur 30 minutes and thats normal. Furthermore, devs reduced The Shadow mundus to 9% from 12% in last update, which made gank more impossible that it already was before. I don't like it. ZOS should make game more realistic: reduce players survivability.

This is not a first person shooter ... MMO PVP is very different .. people invest so much time in toons.. leveling a toon to 50 just to see him die in 2 secs is not very popular in MMO....

It should be more realistic. My vision, gameplay should be more like "Chivalry: Medieval Warfare", or "Life is Feudal" , or like another games from TES series. But i know TESO never will be like theese games.
I dont like eye cancer party, present gameplay more like dota or league of legends or mortal combat. And i know i shouldnt play this game if i dont like gameplay like this, but at least i can post my opinion on forum. :::)

Waffennacht

Well now, if you want realistic with magic, all a wizard has to do is blow a brain vessel in your head and you flop over dead. If any of this was close to real, people would be dead instantly (arrow to the head, 2H to anywhere, fire ball burning lung tissue instantly etc etc)

Minno

Waffennacht wrote: »

Well now, if you want realistic with magic, all a wizard has to do is blow a brain vessel in your head and you flop over dead. If any of this was close to real, people would be dead instantly (arrow to the head, 2H to anywhere, fire ball burning lung tissue instantly etc etc)

Just think of the new playstyle! All weapon attacks could proc "sepsis" where infections caused by dirty weapon blades can kill you in months! Now that's a DoT lol.

Hanzus

Hanzus wrote: »

ROFL! on this whole situation...crying laughing so hard .

First Magica/sorcs were so over powered, then came all the gank blades, now all are crying about tanks, I'm sorry, just to funny

I should have made myself more clear, us Tanks have taken a toll for a looonnnggg time, both from Magica/sorcs, and the ever popular(sarcasim) Gank blades. A heavy armor tank Dying in 2 seconds just wasn't right, yet all we heard was "la, la, la, I'm a Gank. I'm so great, L2P! " , now guess what, tanks last, so hey Ganks, L2P!!!!

Sorry for some of you, but this is how I see it.

leepalmer95

Of course people are tanky in zergs or groups, there no real need to be a glass cannon full min/max dmg build.

If you solo/duo then you'll want to get as much dmg as you can in order to actually burst people, theres no point giving up like 20-30% dmg in order to be a lot more survable because you won't kill anyone.


However if your in a zerg then you don't need high damage, in fact you could run around with like 40% of a normal min/max dd build' dmg and just have a lot of health and be tanky because when your in a group its not just you attacking someone.

You don't have to have enough dmg to burst someone you just need to target someone with 4 other people and they'll die.



This is why you have those full 30k~ hp tanky healing zergs where 80% of them are magplars and you can't even touch their hp. Because individually their dmg is terrible and they won't be able to kill anything but when you have a few of these tanks hitting you especially with a stupid skill like backlash they're gonna kill you.

Same issue with destro ult. A bomber may have a 10k tooltip, full dmg in order to kill someone.

A tanky s&b/desto magplar with 30k hp will spam heals and have like a 5-6k tooltip. Now if 4 of these templars all time their destro ults thats anywhere from 20-25k dmg a second, enough to kill anything.

IEatCivics

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Of course people are tanky in zergs or groups, there no real need to be a glass cannon full min/max dmg build.

If you solo/duo then you'll want to get as much dmg as you can in order to actually burst people, theres no point giving up like 20-30% dmg in order to be a lot more survable because you won't kill anyone.


However if your in a zerg then you don't need high damage, in fact you could run around with like 40% of a normal min/max dd build' dmg and just have a lot of health and be tanky because when your in a group its not just you attacking someone.

You don't have to have enough dmg to burst someone you just need to target someone with 4 other people and they'll die.



This is why you have those full 30k~ hp tanky healing zergs where 80% of them are magplars and you can't even touch their hp. Because individually their dmg is terrible and they won't be able to kill anything but when you have a few of these tanks hitting you especially with a stupid skill like backlash they're gonna kill you.

Same issue with destro ult. A bomber may have a 10k tooltip, full dmg in order to kill someone.

A tanky s&b/desto magplar with 30k hp will spam heals and have like a 5-6k tooltip. Now if 4 of these templars all time their destro ults thats anywhere from 20-25k dmg a second, enough to kill anything.

Nerf Organized Groups. If you're in a group of more than 5 people ESO should cut off all coms, make your screen 70% darker with inverted controls.

TheDoomsdayMonster

Shadeaux wrote: »

You still have DK Tanks being able to withstand 10 people beating on them for a LONG time.

All the "fixes" implemented for this still haven't worked.

And yes, I am salty that I don't know how they are doing it :-)

But those DK's who are built to withstand so much punishment cant kill anyone...

They cant kill you, you cant kill them, so its balanced...

TheDoomsdayMonster

Kartalin wrote: »

Shadeaux wrote: »

You still have DK Tanks being able to withstand 10 people beating on them for a LONG time.

All the "fixes" implemented for this still haven't worked.

And yes, I am salty that I don't know how they are doing it :-)

Is the tank killing you though? Ignore them until all their friends are dead, use it to recharge ultimate and resources.

Bingo...

worsttankever

boobafinno wrote: »

Everyone is too tanky in this game, cant kill anyone. I'm more used to kill ppl with 1-2 bullets in games like Arma 3, or Skyrim(with realistics mods), but here some absurds happens everytime: ppl just push 1 button and their hp go up from 1-2% to 90%, some duels occur 30 minutes and thats normal. Furthermore, devs reduced The Shadow mundus to 9% from 12% in last update, which made gank more impossible that it already was before. I don't like it. ZOS should make game more realistic: reduce players survivability.

Personally I don't want battles to last 2-3 seconds. With the sheer size of Cyrodil & travel time between objectives, I balance both survivability and killing power. Some of my favorite fights I've recorded are 1v1 scenarios where we study each other during combat and finally chain a kill together / burst through defenses, or realize the other player's weakness and exploit it.

Your complaint about HP going from <2% to 90% is fair. Really you lacked enough burst however for that 2% or failed to capitalize on the advantage (a key reason I record and review later).

Also HP is only 1 resource pool out of 3 (4 if you count Ultimate). Analyze your opponent and exploit strategically. E.g. against magicka Sorcerers on my magicka Dragonknight - I tried drain magicka poisons for a while and it didn't seem to dent. I'm having much better success with stamina drain poisons and constant snare / cc so I can get close enough for my whip. On my stamina Nightblade where some tanky Stamina opponents could outheal my damage, defile and stamina drain worked to great effect.

IEatCivics

worsttankever wrote: »

boobafinno wrote: »

Everyone is too tanky in this game, cant kill anyone. I'm more used to kill ppl with 1-2 bullets in games like Arma 3, or Skyrim(with realistics mods), but here some absurds happens everytime: ppl just push 1 button and their hp go up from 1-2% to 90%, some duels occur 30 minutes and thats normal. Furthermore, devs reduced The Shadow mundus to 9% from 12% in last update, which made gank more impossible that it already was before. I don't like it. ZOS should make game more realistic: reduce players survivability.

Personally I don't want battles to last 2-3 seconds. With the sheer size of Cyrodil & travel time between objectives, I balance both survivability and killing power. Some of my favorite fights I've recorded are 1v1 scenarios where we study each other during combat and finally chain a kill together / burst through defenses, or realize the other player's weakness and exploit it.

Your complaint about HP going from <2% to 90% is fair. Really you lacked enough burst however for that 2% or failed to capitalize on the advantage (a key reason I record and review later).

Also HP is only 1 resource pool out of 3 (4 if you count Ultimate). Analyze your opponent and exploit strategically. E.g. against magicka Sorcerers on my magicka Dragonknight - I tried drain magicka poisons for a while and it didn't seem to dent. I'm having much better success with stamina drain poisons and constant snare / cc so I can get close enough for my whip. On my stamina Nightblade where some tanky Stamina opponents could outheal my damage, defile and stamina drain worked to great effect.

But...then I have to learn the mechanics of each class, each skill, their animations, figure out if they're a healer, dps, tank or support, look at what weapons they are using to figure out what skills they have at hand and what Ultis possibility, take educated guesses at what they are running which would then make it that I have to look at their HP, skills they are casting, if they are dodging a lot or not, if they're stuck in a root bashing the air etc, understand how to counter each of these scenarios, plan out my build, gear, enchants, champion points, skills with this in mind and then execute everything properly to get a kill. Then I have to make sure I do not get countered by people and understand how to manage myself in each fight with all the knowledge I have accumulated above. I just want to participate and get trophies.

Waffennacht

.

IEatCivics wrote: »

worsttankever wrote: »

boobafinno wrote: »

Everyone is too tanky in this game, cant kill anyone. I'm more used to kill ppl with 1-2 bullets in games like Arma 3, or Skyrim(with realistics mods), but here some absurds happens everytime: ppl just push 1 button and their hp go up from 1-2% to 90%, some duels occur 30 minutes and thats normal. Furthermore, devs reduced The Shadow mundus to 9% from 12% in last update, which made gank more impossible that it already was before. I don't like it. ZOS should make game more realistic: reduce players survivability.

Personally I don't want battles to last 2-3 seconds. With the sheer size of Cyrodil & travel time between objectives, I balance both survivability and killing power. Some of my favorite fights I've recorded are 1v1 scenarios where we study each other during combat and finally chain a kill together / burst through defenses, or realize the other player's weakness and exploit it.

Your complaint about HP going from <2% to 90% is fair. Really you lacked enough burst however for that 2% or failed to capitalize on the advantage (a key reason I record and review later).

Also HP is only 1 resource pool out of 3 (4 if you count Ultimate). Analyze your opponent and exploit strategically. E.g. against magicka Sorcerers on my magicka Dragonknight - I tried drain magicka poisons for a while and it didn't seem to dent. I'm having much better success with stamina drain poisons and constant snare / cc so I can get close enough for my whip. On my stamina Nightblade where some tanky Stamina opponents could outheal my damage, defile and stamina drain worked to great effect.

But...then I have to learn the mechanics of each class, each skill, their animations, figure out if they're a healer, dps, tank or support, look at what weapons they are using to figure out what skills they have at hand and what Ultis possibility, take educated guesses at what they are running which would then make it that I have to look at their HP, skills they are casting, if they are dodging a lot or not, if they're stuck in a root bashing the air etc, understand how to counter each of these scenarios, plan out my build, gear, enchants, champion points, skills with this in mind and then execute everything properly to get a kill. Then I have to make sure I do not get countered by people and understand how to manage myself in each fight with all the knowledge I have accumulated above. I just want to participate and get trophies.

Posts like this makes me wanna watch your videos

Hutch679

bardx86 wrote: »

boobafinno wrote: »

Everyone is too tanky in this game, cant kill anyone. I'm more used to kill ppl with 1-2 bullets in games like Arma 3, or Skyrim(with realistics mods), but here some absurds happens everytime: ppl just push 1 button and their hp go up from 1-2% to 90%, some duels occur 30 minutes and thats normal. Furthermore, devs reduced The Shadow mundus to 9% from 12% in last update, which made gank more impossible that it already was before. I don't like it. ZOS should make game more realistic: reduce players survivability.

I agree to an extent as well, its a bit to much. 1-2 bullets is to far the other way but some builds can literally just stand and take all the damage i output and not have to even counter.

Honestly this is probably more of an issue with your build and your player skill than it is with players being tanky. The point is to create a balanced character than can attack, defend, and heal. Not just all out attack.

apostate9

boobafinno wrote: »

RadRzRg wrote: »

boobafinno wrote: »

Everyone is too tanky in this game, cant kill anyone. I'm more used to kill ppl with 1-2 bullets in games like Arma 3, or Skyrim(with realistics mods), but here some absurds happens everytime: ppl just push 1 button and their hp go up from 1-2% to 90%, some duels occur 30 minutes and thats normal. Furthermore, devs reduced The Shadow mundus to 9% from 12% in last update, which made gank more impossible that it already was before. I don't like it. ZOS should make game more realistic: reduce players survivability.

I think this is coming from a ganker. If the game was faster it would have NO element of skill. Are there truly annoying tanks?YES. Are there truly annoying DDs zerging?YES. Posts like these nerfed block's cost.

u are righ i run pure ganker builds only, and always been ganker. Ppl should die instantly when i come sneaky from their back and hit them. Its realistic and shouldnt be different(shouldnt be like it now).

Nope. So if that was the point of this whole post then...

/thread

Cyrediath

You are not killing npc as you were doing in skyrim. You are fightings against another human being. Get over it.