How are the HotR dungeons compared to SotH? (Vet)

Ir0nB34r

I am curious how the new dungeons compare in overall length and difficulty to Shadows of the Hist.

I have never been able to complete Mazzatun on Vet with a PUG (people always start giving up at Xal Nur) which makes it difficult to farm for me, and I am concerned that I will experience the same thing with Horns of the Reach. There are sets I actually need to farm, so I just want to mentally prepare myself before they release on console.

ValkynSketha

Yep you will experience the same.

Ir0nB34r

ValkynSketha wrote: »

Yep you will experience the same.

Marvelous. Thank you!

SanTii.92

Definitely easier, and more pug friendly. It doesn't require as much coordination as with SotH ones.

Tasear

I think there's a good balance. Normal isn't hard at all, but mechs are still there so you can actually learn. Veteran will make you actually think while hard mode will test your friendship.

For the record, my first complete was with a pug group. Once you understand what going on it's not bad at all.

Doctordarkspawn

1. Definately easier, hard enough to where it's a genuine challenge.

2. Much shorter so speedrun/no death achievements are a wee bit less of a pain in the ass.

Myyth

I have joined 8 random group finder vet HoTR dungeons so far.

I have no idea how people can say they are easy because ALL of the 8 groups I joined failed.
Most of the groups I joined the first thing I saw when I entered was the blue portal of failure and I knew the group was stuck on some boss.

These dungeons are worse, way worse than the the SoTH ones. Tanks getting one shot, DPS checks the groups cant make, getting swarmed by adds.
I have yet to see a random group finder PUG finish the vet versions.
If I continue to get PUG groups that cant do them I will unsub so I dont have to get these dungeons. They are that awful.

beetleklee

Hmmm, I found vBF harder than vCoS, but I haven't done vRoM or vFH yet so I can't speak for those.
I ran with guildies (cp 300-800) and it's probably because we weren't used to the mechanics. Took a lot of trial and error. BF on normal you can just burn through and ignore mechanics so doing normal mode many times didn't help me learn. The first time I did vCoS I only died on the last boss. Wiped many times on vBF but it helped us come up with strategies.

LadyNalcarya

Myyth wrote: »

I have joined 8 random group finder vet HoTR dungeons so far.

I have no idea how people can say they are easy because ALL of the 8 groups I joined failed.
Most of the groups I joined the first thing I saw when I entered was the blue portal of failure and I knew the group was stuck on some boss.

These dungeons are worse, way worse than the the SoTH ones. Tanks getting one shot, DPS checks the groups cant make, getting swarmed by adds.
I have yet to see a random group finder PUG finish the vet versions.
If I continue to get PUG groups that cant do them I will unsub so I dont have to get these dungeons. They are that awful.

I agree that theyre not suited for group finder, but how that makes them worse than soth? I really really doubt you can do cradle of shadows or mazzatun vet with pugs, so its not much different.
The dungeons were released this monday, theres no guides or anything... And for the majority of people its theirr first try. Of course, theyre gonna wipe.

Myyth

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

I agree that theyre not suited for group finder, but how that makes them worse than soth? I really really doubt you can do cradle of shadows or mazzatun vet with pugs, so its not much different.
The dungeons were released this monday, theres no guides or anything... And for the majority of people its theirr first try. Of course, theyre gonna wipe.

it wasnt about needing a guide. The damage was too high, the fights too much going on, groups getting overwhelmed. I have completed Vet mazz and cradle with random pugs in the group finder but these are different. They upped the difficulty level.

altemriel

normal version is easy even for a casual player like me

vet I did not try yet

Tasear

Myyth wrote: »

I have joined 8 random group finder vet HoTR dungeons so far.

I have no idea how people can say they are easy because ALL of the 8 groups I joined failed.
Most of the groups I joined the first thing I saw when I entered was the blue portal of failure and I knew the group was stuck on some boss.

These dungeons are worse, way worse than the the SoTH ones. Tanks getting one shot, DPS checks the groups cant make, getting swarmed by adds.
I have yet to see a random group finder PUG finish the vet versions.
If I continue to get PUG groups that cant do them I will unsub so I dont have to get these dungeons. They are that awful.

You actually will never see a single add if you pay attention or everyone is careful. First the runes, I believe spawn ghosts. The ghost spawns Skelton. The 3 mini bosses have posion that kills if don't use glowing pads.

Note if it does happen tank should group adds and always keep eye 2 hander.

s7732425ub17_ESO

Vet Hold is very easy and puggable except for the final boss. I expect >90% of groups to get to final boss and then quit and not be able to complete it.
First boss = easy
Second boss = easy
Third boss = medium
Fourth boss = easy
Fifth boss = extremely hard

Vet Forge has harder bosses overall, but I think you can pull a weaker group through this versus Vet Hold due to Hold's final boss being very, very difficult.
First boss = easy
Second boss = medium
Third boss = easy
Fourth boss = medium
Fifth boss = medium
Sixth boss = hard

zaria

Myyth wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

I agree that theyre not suited for group finder, but how that makes them worse than soth? I really really doubt you can do cradle of shadows or mazzatun vet with pugs, so its not much different.
The dungeons were released this monday, theres no guides or anything... And for the majority of people its theirr first try. Of course, theyre gonna wipe.

it wasnt about needing a guide. The damage was too high, the fights too much going on, groups getting overwhelmed. I have completed Vet mazz and cradle with random pugs in the group finder but these are different. They upped the difficulty level.

Players know the mechanics of the old dungeons. vFH was very mechanic, final boss has multiple one shot ones two who require cooperation or standard procedures.

MakeMeUhSamich

Myyth wrote: »

I have joined 8 random group finder vet HoTR dungeons so far.

I have no idea how people can say they are easy because ALL of the 8 groups I joined failed.
Most of the groups I joined the first thing I saw when I entered was the blue portal of failure and I knew the group was stuck on some boss.

These dungeons are worse, way worse than the the SoTH ones. Tanks getting one shot, DPS checks the groups cant make, getting swarmed by adds.
I have yet to see a random group finder PUG finish the vet versions.
If I continue to get PUG groups that cant do them I will unsub so I dont have to get these dungeons. They are that awful.

Great band name: "Blue Portal of Failure" :-)

On topic: This makes me nervous for console release...sigh.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

Ir0nB34r wrote: »

I am curious how the new dungeons compare in overall length and difficulty to Shadows of the Hist.

I have never been able to complete Mazzatun on Vet with a PUG (people always start giving up at Xal Nur) which makes it difficult to farm for me, and I am concerned that I will experience the same thing with Horns of the Reach. There are sets I actually need to farm, so I just want to mentally prepare myself before they release on console.

Need? Or want?
They're doable if RNG favours your pug group.

Tasear

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Vet Hold is very easy and puggable except for the final boss. I expect >90% of groups to get to final boss and then quit and not be able to complete it.
First boss = easy
Second boss = easy
Third boss = medium
Fourth boss = easy
Fifth boss = extremely hard

Vet Forge has harder bosses overall, but I think you can pull a weaker group through this versus Vet Hold due to Hold's final boss being very, very difficult.
First boss = easy
Second boss = medium
Third boss = easy
Fourth boss = medium
Fifth boss = medium
Sixth boss = hard

Last 10% is rough..and I feel like we missed the purpose of totems. I would like to know what others did there. For hard mode all I could do is slot barrier and a tank warhorn.

A side note when boss grabs you walk slowly to overlap circles or in a path. Make sure everyone has a spot like in coh2.

LadyNalcarya

Myyth wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

I agree that theyre not suited for group finder, but how that makes them worse than soth? I really really doubt you can do cradle of shadows or mazzatun vet with pugs, so its not much different.
The dungeons were released this monday, theres no guides or anything... And for the majority of people its theirr first try. Of course, theyre gonna wipe.

it wasnt about needing a guide. The damage was too high, the fights too much going on, groups getting overwhelmed. I have completed Vet mazz and cradle with random pugs in the group finder but these are different. They upped the difficulty level.

It kinda is. If you try to do vet soth dungeon and just rush in without paying attention to the mechanics, you will not get past Xal-Nur or that dunmer boss in cradle dungeon. But once you know what to do, you wont take excessive damage and wont be overwhelmed.
Atm the majority of people probably dont know what to do in the new dungeons and cant figure it on their own under all this pressure. So it might seem harsh, but to be fair you should compare that to day one soth or IC, not to 1 year old soth.

s7732425ub17_ESO

Tasear wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Vet Hold is very easy and puggable except for the final boss. I expect >90% of groups to get to final boss and then quit and not be able to complete it.
First boss = easy
Second boss = easy
Third boss = medium
Fourth boss = easy
Fifth boss = extremely hard

Vet Forge has harder bosses overall, but I think you can pull a weaker group through this versus Vet Hold due to Hold's final boss being very, very difficult.
First boss = easy
Second boss = medium
Third boss = easy
Fourth boss = medium
Fifth boss = medium
Sixth boss = hard

Last 10% is rough..and I feel like we missed the purpose of totems. I would like to know what others did there. For hard mode all I could do is slot barrier and a tank warhorn.

A side note when boss grabs you walk slowly to overlap circles or in a path. Make sure everyone has a spot like in coh2.

Really the only issue with execute is that silly shield. When the boss gets shielded with 1 million health remaining, it takes forever to kill it. And I haven't figured out how to not get the shield to come up. I did a run where the shield never came up at all, but it just seemed like luck.

Ir0nB34r

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

Ir0nB34r wrote: »

I am curious how the new dungeons compare in overall length and difficulty to Shadows of the Hist.

I have never been able to complete Mazzatun on Vet with a PUG (people always start giving up at Xal Nur) which makes it difficult to farm for me, and I am concerned that I will experience the same thing with Horns of the Reach. There are sets I actually need to farm, so I just want to mentally prepare myself before they release on console.

Need? Or want?
They're doable if RNG favours your pug group.

Need, for my healer. I am looking to get Draugr's Rest and Earthgore. The Draugr's Rest will be easy since I do not need jewelry, I can do it on Normal. But my concern is definitely attempting to get the Earthgore.

I love unconventional builds, and the more people say something sucks the more I want to do it and make it good. Everyone keeps telling me to stay away from those sets. Ironic, since only a small portion of people commenting on it have even tried them. They are too stuck on the current meta and not willing to branch out and experiment.

Cage_Lizardman

I managed to get through vet Falkreath hm with a guild group, on voice comms (got both nodeath and speedrun thanks to bugs). Also tried to pug it several times, no one managed the final boss.

I would say that boss is on the level of vRoM's final boss, the problem being the last 20% or so, when the large number of adds spawn. If anyone dies at that stage, it's a wipe. Even if you manage to stick together near an intact pillar with the healer spamming like mad, then he does the pull, which splits you up and someone dies to the adds.

I didn't notice much difference between hardmode and otherwise, it's extremely hard either way, and felt barely doable with our 25k dps each.

I also keep getting hit by "fiery blast" for like 70k, even though the tank claims he's holding aggro. Maybe that's just tanks being tanks, or are you supposed to be able to dodge that?

s7732425ub17_ESO

Cage_Lizardman wrote: »

I managed to get through vet Falkreath hm with a guild group, on voice comms (got both nodeath and speedrun thanks to bugs). Also tried to pug it several times, no one managed the final boss.

I would say that boss is on the level of vRoM's final boss, the problem being the last 20% or so, when the large number of adds spawn. If anyone dies at that stage, it's a wipe. Even if you manage to stick together near an intact pillar with the healer spamming like mad, then he does the pull, which splits you up and someone dies to the adds.

I didn't notice much difference between hardmode and otherwise, it's extremely hard either way, and felt barely doable with our 25k dps each.

I also keep getting hit by "fiery blast" for like 70k, even though the tank claims he's holding aggro. Maybe that's just tanks being tanks, or are you supposed to be able to dodge that?

Tank is losing aggro.

WatchYourSixx

Fiery blast is dodgable if you see it coming. (He does a visual wind-up and looks like a heavy attack) however, you should never get hit by it if the tank has aggro. The only real difference is health and two less pillars for hard mode. He also seems to take damage from something during his shield phase. He refreshes the shield shortly after he loses it so it's best to hit as hard as you can when he's shieldless. That also might be on a timer but didn't spend enough time to figure that out.

As far as puggable? This is not your drag along mediocre heals, tank, or dps. I'd say as long as the tank can taunt and block and has a decent amount of health, they can probably do it. DPS is a little more critical for the last boss of both. You need to kill the little add in vBF, and you need to kill the atros asap or you'll get overwhelmed. Heals are going to determine how much you can *** up before a wipe.

Personally I found them to be challenging, but also not too difficult. I pugged with a group of people, the tank being the only person I knew. I'm a pretty decent dps, but when we were doing vBRF I noticed the dps difference. We managed to average about 40k, with me doing 30 of it... But we got it after several attempts on at least the last two bosses. DPS was higher in my vFH run, around 50-60k combined. Like someone suggested before it probably definitely requires an average of 25k dps per DPS or it will be impossible.

Dr_Rektar

WatchYourSixx wrote: »

Fiery blast is dodgable if you see it coming. (He does a visual wind-up and looks like a heavy attack) however, you should never get hit by it if the tank has aggro. The only real difference is health and two less pillars for hard mode. He also seems to take damage from something during his shield phase. He refreshes the shield shortly after he loses it so it's best to hit as hard as you can when he's shieldless. That also might be on a timer but didn't spend enough time to figure that out.

As far as puggable? This is not your drag along mediocre heals, tank, or dps. I'd say as long as the tank can taunt and block and has a decent amount of health, they can probably do it. DPS is a little more critical for the last boss of both. You need to kill the little add in vBF, and you need to kill the atros asap or you'll get overwhelmed. Heals are going to determine how much you can *** up before a wipe.

Personally I found them to be challenging, but also not too difficult. I pugged with a group of people, the tank being the only person I knew. I'm a pretty decent dps, but when we were doing vBRF I noticed the dps difference. We managed to average about 40k, with me doing 30 of it... But we got it after several attempts on at least the last two bosses. DPS was higher in my vFH run, around 50-60k combined. Like someone suggested before it probably definitely requires an average of 25k dps per DPS or it will be impossible.

I tried dodge that blast today. Got 70kish hit whiile was in the middle of rolldodge

Tasear

Cage_Lizardman wrote: »

I managed to get through vet Falkreath hm with a guild group, on voice comms (got both nodeath and speedrun thanks to bugs). Also tried to pug it several times, no one managed the final boss.

I would say that boss is on the level of vRoM's final boss, the problem being the last 20% or so, when the large number of adds spawn. If anyone dies at that stage, it's a wipe. Even if you manage to stick together near an intact pillar with the healer spamming like mad, then he does the pull, which splits you up and someone dies to the adds.

I didn't notice much difference between hardmode and otherwise, it's extremely hard either way, and felt barely doable with our 25k dps each.

I also keep getting hit by "fiery blast" for like 70k, even though the tank claims he's holding aggro. Maybe that's just tanks being tanks, or are you supposed to be able to dodge that?

Isn't that the shot you are suppose to Dodge, or block?

Jhalin

Blocking Fiery Blast still hits for 30k. It doesn't go through shields though, so it's possible a sorc with harness mag and ward could survive it while blocking.

The real issue with vFH is the lack of clarity and the tiny tiny combat space for the last boss. I also still have no clue what the shield is about. Do I dps through it? Wait til all the adds die first? Why do his attack patterns change completely at 25%? We just don't know

Make2k15

Myyth wrote: »

I have joined 8 random group finder vet HoTR dungeons so far.

I have no idea how people can say they are easy because ALL of the 8 groups I joined failed.
Most of the groups I joined the first thing I saw when I entered was the blue portal of failure and I knew the group was stuck on some boss.

These dungeons are worse, way worse than the the SoTH ones. Tanks getting one shot, DPS checks the groups cant make, getting swarmed by adds.
I have yet to see a random group finder PUG finish the vet versions.
If I continue to get PUG groups that cant do them I will unsub so I dont have to get these dungeons. They are that awful.

I agree with all of this even though the new dungeons are puggable. I have 5 vFH clears and 2 vBF clears with group finder PUG groups so far as dd. The thing which makes these new dungeons difficult for PUG groups is that they can't be carried by a one good dd much, everybody needs to do at least decent job and with PUG groups you know they are mostly first timers.

Arbit

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Myyth wrote: »

I have joined 8 random group finder vet HoTR dungeons so far.

I have no idea how people can say they are easy because ALL of the 8 groups I joined failed.
Most of the groups I joined the first thing I saw when I entered was the blue portal of failure and I knew the group was stuck on some boss.

These dungeons are worse, way worse than the the SoTH ones. Tanks getting one shot, DPS checks the groups cant make, getting swarmed by adds.
I have yet to see a random group finder PUG finish the vet versions.
If I continue to get PUG groups that cant do them I will unsub so I dont have to get these dungeons. They are that awful.

I agree that theyre not suited for group finder, but how that makes them worse than soth? I really really doubt you can do cradle of shadows or mazzatun vet with pugs, so its not much different.
The dungeons were released this monday, theres no guides or anything... And for the majority of people its theirr first try. Of course, theyre gonna wipe.

Even if they aren't first timers sometimes you just don't have the dps to finish the last boss. His last 20% is evil. Spent hours with some groups mashing our heads against a wall on that last %.

Saturn

Ir0nB34r wrote: »

I am curious how the new dungeons compare in overall length and difficulty to Shadows of the Hist.

I have never been able to complete Mazzatun on Vet with a PUG (people always start giving up at Xal Nur) which makes it difficult to farm for me, and I am concerned that I will experience the same thing with Horns of the Reach. There are sets I actually need to farm, so I just want to mentally prepare myself before they release on console.

In terms of difficulty they are about the same, with Falkreath being a bit harder than Bloodroot if you do HM in both. In terms of length they are both shorter, having speedruns at 20min, instead of the 30min speedruns Cradle and Mazzatun had. The no death for Bloodroot is about as infuriating as Cradle to get, since Bloodroot has probably the hardest trash pulls of any dungeon since they require a very attentive group and tank with quick reflexes.

I think if you pug it on vet you will probably be in for a very bad time, since both dungeons require a lot of teamwork to get through, as well as consistenly attention to mechanics. I don't think I would ever run them if it wasn't for the fact that I know a lot of good players, and honestly ESO is not a solo player friendly game, in my opinion, such as many other MMOs are, so I definitely cannot recommend finding a solid guild / friend group to run endgame dungeons with if that's the kind of content you like.

Arbit

Make2k15 wrote: »

Myyth wrote: »

I have joined 8 random group finder vet HoTR dungeons so far.

I have no idea how people can say they are easy because ALL of the 8 groups I joined failed.
Most of the groups I joined the first thing I saw when I entered was the blue portal of failure and I knew the group was stuck on some boss.

These dungeons are worse, way worse than the the SoTH ones. Tanks getting one shot, DPS checks the groups cant make, getting swarmed by adds.
I have yet to see a random group finder PUG finish the vet versions.
If I continue to get PUG groups that cant do them I will unsub so I dont have to get these dungeons. They are that awful.

I agree with all of this even though the new dungeons are puggable. I have 5 vFH clears and 2 vBF clears with group finder PUG groups so far as dd. The thing which makes these new dungeons difficult for PUG groups is that they can't be carried by a one good dd much, everybody needs to do at least decent job and with PUG groups you know they are mostly first timers.

Youre not that jerk tank I met in a pug for falkreath today, who said we all sucked and withheld gear just to be a jerk are you? He also boasted 5 clears.

Lord_Eomer

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Definitely easier, and more pug friendly. It doesn't require as much coordination as with SotH ones.

Its not pug friendly but less difficult than SOTH, we were forced to kick low level as were keep dying and was not progressing.

These dungeon requires strong dps, good tank, heal and mechanics to follow!