So after PC patch, Cyrodiil guards

Asardes

"There's strong and there's level 5 resource guard on no-CP campaign strong. Join the Covenant Armed Forces now!" - recruitment add, on a tree in Glenumbra

Krayzie

Hate to say it, but pretty sure this threads dead and the topic a lost cause.

Took CC immunity out of game and gave them infinite CCs with infinite negates.

Even with 2-4 people you can get slaughtered at a resource.

Idiotic ZoS explanation per usual

ChandraNalaar

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Each NPC is using the appropriate abilities as earned via the upgrade system and are not cross wired as they were during the initial launch of Morrowind several months ago. This was fixed on PC and Console platforms, and remains intact from that initial fix. This has been verified in code and in game by our QA department as well as Devs hopping online to verify.

That being said, with recent balance changes and adjustments to item sets, the guards may put forth more of a challenge. As a reminder, Resources are intended to be captured by a group of 2-4 players and while some players can take them solo, that is not the norm, nor what we balance guard abilities and difficulty around.

It's not about difficulty; the guards are casting eclipse over and over and eclipse can no longer be broken. You get no cc immunity from npc abilities anymore, so it's not about "difficulty" as much as it is about core combat functions not applying to guards. @ZOS_BrianWheeler

bikerangelo

If the guards provided an actual challenge outside of abusing broken mechanics, stun locks and abilities with combinations of old and new features, then make it as difficult as you want. I'm alright with making each resource its own little vMA arena, but at least make the mechanics consistent. Mage guards apply a hard CC that breaks when you take damage, but doesn't apply CC immunity when it breaks, causing constant interrupts and/or stun locks. Eclipse can't be removed (only by purge) but doesn't have a cooldown and doesn't apply CC immunity, and still reflects dawnbreaker of smiting which was changed to physical damage.

Don't tone down the difficult; fix the bugs.

Gan Xing

Can't break free of eclipse, but you can purge it. Make a warden, solo that every day!

also, roll dodge out of everything!!

Get into tower, kill everything, then hop out and kill everything. But seriously, all those cc's, eclipses and 5% to full in a sec is annoying as hell.

runagate

Krayzie wrote: »

Hate to say it, but pretty sure this threads dead and the topic a lost cause.

Took CC immunity out of game and gave them infinite CCs with infinite negates.

Even with 2-4 people you can get slaughtered at a resource.

Idiotic ZoS explanation per usual

Cryptical

danno8 wrote: »

People aren't just running on to the flag trying to 1v8 all the NPCs are they?

The way you take resources is to run into the tower, kill the mage, kill the stragglers that wander in after you, and then deal with the four flag defenders.

If there is an enemy player there, then yes you are going to have a tough time. As it should be.

Also, shift your tactics away from using projectiles.

On my worm cult / sanctuary wearing pve healer I can run to the flag and 1v8 the whole gang... by throwing down a couple aoe and using ele drain and relying on the puncturing sweeps with staff heavy attacks and some radiant to execute. I don't care about eclipse because I'm not tossing projectiles. I don't care about getting immobilized, because my sweeps and aoe abilities just keep chewing away at the whole crowd while heal-over-time supporting me. My feet are stuck, I just wait it out.

Taking that mage out by going through the tower might make it into easy mode.

These people that can't adjust to the situation are making it harder on themselves.

Mureel

I literallly get the eclipse all day... I do Harness Magicka, Mist Form, haul ass into the flag, drop destro ulti, sap essence and then LA/Swallow Soul the Mage, same with any inc guards, but with wall of elements down, job done.

NBrookus

@Cryptical Templars have it easier because our spammable isn't reflected by the NPC version of eclipse, and we can easily purge. However, on a mag DK, for example, the guard version of eclipse reflects whip and burning embers even though neither are anything resembling a projectile.

The problem is not that it's hard or not hard, it's that it's nonsensical based on how abilities and mechanics work elsewhere.

Elsterchen

^I'll sign that, but :

steeltornado, a healing ability (vigor) maybe backed by a shield (boneshield), something to slow them down (caltrops) and some weapon dmg will help stam users to solo ressources.

If you do not want to risk dawnbreaker hitting yourself use barrier to gain time. (For me both DW ult morphs work just fine, too)

runagate

The most OP anti-resource build is simply Eagle Eye plus Propelling Shield. 35m and nothing can remotely attack you back, in fact til you hit em you're outside the aggro range by quite a lot.

JamilaRaj

Krayzie wrote: »

Even with 2-4 people you can get slaughtered at a resource.

Astrid_V wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler any word on this?
Retaking resources solo takes a lot of time...

Solo players can no longer quickly roflstomp NPCs? *gasps!*
What a horrible outburst of challenge! Brian, resource flip scrolls need to be introduced to the crown store ASAP, or else honour guards will slaughter 2-4 players and bring about 2014!!!

Krayzie

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Krayzie wrote: »

Even with 2-4 people you can get slaughtered at a resource.

Astrid_V wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler any word on this?
Retaking resources solo takes a lot of time...

Solo players can no longer quickly roflstomp NPCs? *gasps!*
What a horrible outburst of challenge! Brian, resource flip scrolls needs to be introduced to the crown store ASAP, or else honour guards will slaughter 2-4 players and bring about 2014!!!

Not being able to break free of eclipse, severely hindering magic players, constant negates, and constant CC is an extreme, as is your entire statement.

ZoS is known for only using extremes, jumping from one to the next instead of finding a middle ground.

With the amount of lag and general latency(specially on console), this change to artificially make resources harder to take is ignorant. Ever been CCd and not been able to break free? Then break free, get CCd again with a negate dropped on you? As a magic character?

Apparently these 2-4 players taking a resource are meant to be stam classes.

disintegr8

I have learned to check the resource level before I go near a resource, knowing that I can usually solo level 1 and 2, might get lucky at level 3 and will struggle with level 4 and 5.

But being stunned, while being eclipsed, while inside a negate magicka bubble is just too much, especially when any NPC you may have nearly killed goes from 5% health to 100% health in an instant.

Cold fire ballista the flag guards to smithereens while out of their range is the only solution....

Drakkdjinn

Krayzie wrote: »

Are guards supposed to be able to use every skill set in the game(including siege merchants)?

Are they meant to be able to go to full health from 5%?

I was just wondering if these features since Morrowind were addressed in the patch or are they not a bug at all.

Been like this for years, literally years, without tuning. Shows how much thought they put into Cry-o-diil.

PC NA, AD or DC or EP, faction don't matter.

Bam_Bam

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, just a heads up that we're looking into this, but would love to get some additional information including your platform and megaserver, which campaign you're in, the approximate location, and which abilities the guards are casting. Thanks!

Please DO NOT nerf the guards. Players crying about not being able to solo guards - thats what guards are there for. If you nerf them you will have solo players flipping maps and taking away the hard work that groups and PvP guilds put in to take and defend keeps and resources.

The guards are fine - leave them alone

Marabornwingrion

Mureel wrote: »

But to be fair, should we really be able to take a resource alone? Just because we can (not even a pvper but if I'm on the way by, I snag resources back for my faction) There are only 3 per keep with guards and a Mage above and other stuff, I don't honestly think we should be able to solo the whole place so easily.

Yes. It's a damn farm, not a keep. I don't like being pushed to run in zergs.

Olen_Mikko

Finally a bit of a challenge. Don't nerf them

ecru

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Each NPC is using the appropriate abilities as earned via the upgrade system and are not cross wired as they were during the initial launch of Morrowind several months ago. This was fixed on PC and Console platforms, and remains intact from that initial fix. This has been verified in code and in game by our QA department as well as Devs hopping online to verify.

That being said, with recent balance changes and adjustments to item sets, the guards may put forth more of a challenge. As a reminder, Resources are intended to be captured by a group of 2-4 players and while some players can take them solo, that is not the norm, nor what we balance guard abilities and difficulty around.

Constantly losing control over your character isn't fun or enjoyable for anyone on any platform playing any class in any type of content.

sentientomega

I personally could not care less whether or not I could take an enemy resource as that's not why I go to Cyrodiil/Imperial City. What I would like is to be able to take and complete the PvE quests without being perma-stun-locked by the guards.

ecru wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Each NPC is using the appropriate abilities as earned via the upgrade system and are not cross wired as they were during the initial launch of Morrowind several months ago. This was fixed on PC and Console platforms, and remains intact from that initial fix. This has been verified in code and in game by our QA department as well as Devs hopping online to verify.

That being said, with recent balance changes and adjustments to item sets, the guards may put forth more of a challenge. As a reminder, Resources are intended to be captured by a group of 2-4 players and while some players can take them solo, that is not the norm, nor what we balance guard abilities and difficulty around.

Constantly losing control over your character isn't fun or enjoyable for anyone on any platform playing any class in any type of content.

Exactly, so may we please have some assurances that we can obtain the PvE quests from settlements (capturable or otherwise) without being forever CCed?

Nullmagic

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Each NPC is using the appropriate abilities as earned via the upgrade system and are not cross wired as they were during the initial launch of Morrowind several months ago. This was fixed on PC and Console platforms, and remains intact from that initial fix. This has been verified in code and in game by our QA department as well as Devs hopping online to verify.

That being said, with recent balance changes and adjustments to item sets, the guards may put forth more of a challenge. As a reminder, Resources are intended to be captured by a group of 2-4 players and while some players can take them solo, that is not the norm, nor what we balance guard abilities and difficulty around.

You should really consider giving the guards the same version of Eclipse that players get. This is the cause of a lot of the nuisance. It's extremely unfair to certain classes, who have almost no skills that won't be thrown in their face, plus it's just broken in a lot of ways. Why does it reflect concealed weapon but not surprise attacks? It's wonky and inconsistent and way stronger than the version we use.

Lord-Otto

For now, here's how you cap it.

Ride with horse into tower, bottom floor. Make sure horsey has enough stam to not get knocked down. You should drag the entrance guard and mender. Deal with them. Root the guard and kill the mender first.

Get upstairs, kill mage guard.

Look down from mage position. There's two menders and two honour guards on flag. Spam menders to death with whatever. Step back a bit to break LoS and recover resources. If you get Eclipsed, use unreflectable attacks.

Kill the honour guards slowly afterwards. Get one to 25%. If you get eclipsed now, use a reflectable CC and get CC immunity. Now stun the weak guard with ranged CC and burst him. If you fail to kill while stunned, he'll heal to 100%. Try again. Kill second afterwards.

Jump down and cap. Might have to kill the roaming guard if you haven't already. If you took five minutes and are in no CP, consider switching to the real campaign. Also consider switching to an MMO that doesn't center around broken stun abuse that calls itself CC but only works 1v1 or Xv1. Be sure to grab a motif for 60 bucks or a house for 120 beforehand, though!

Enjoy!

Drakkdjinn

Lord-Otto wrote: »

For now, here's how you cap it.

Ride with horse into tower, bottom floor. Make sure horsey has enough stam to not get knocked down. You should drag the entrance guard and mender. Deal with them. Root the guard and kill the mender first.

Get upstairs, kill mage guard.

Look down from mage position. There's two menders and two honour guards on flag. Spam menders to death with whatever. Step back a bit to break LoS and recover resources. If you get Eclipsed, use unreflectable attacks.

Kill the honour guards slowly afterwards. Get one to 25%. If you get eclipsed now, use a reflectable CC and get CC immunity. Now stun the weak guard with ranged CC and burst him. If you fail to kill while stunned, he'll heal to 100%. Try again. Kill second afterwards.

Jump down and cap. Might have to kill the roaming guard if you haven't already. If you took five minutes and are in no CP, consider switching to the real campaign. Also consider switching to an MMO that doesn't center around broken stun abuse that calls itself CC but only works 1v1 or Xv1. Be sure to grab a motif for 60 bucks or a house for 120 beforehand, though!

Enjoy!

Just wanted to add: If you play on a CP campaign, disregard the above, run in face first and mash your two favorite buttons = win!

GreenSoup2HoT

In my opinion there isn't enough guards on the flags . We could use 5 more placed around the thing.

Rohamad_Ali

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

In my opinion there isn't enough guards on the flags . We could use 5 more placed around the thing.

It's a PVP zone . Lets minimize in PVE nonsense and not add more NPCs OT it will end up like imperial city . Empty .

Lord-Otto

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

For now, here's how you cap it.

Ride with horse into tower, bottom floor. Make sure horsey has enough stam to not get knocked down. You should drag the entrance guard and mender. Deal with them. Root the guard and kill the mender first.

Get upstairs, kill mage guard.

Look down from mage position. There's two menders and two honour guards on flag. Spam menders to death with whatever. Step back a bit to break LoS and recover resources. If you get Eclipsed, use unreflectable attacks.

Kill the honour guards slowly afterwards. Get one to 25%. If you get eclipsed now, use a reflectable CC and get CC immunity. Now stun the weak guard with ranged CC and burst him. If you fail to kill while stunned, he'll heal to 100%. Try again. Kill second afterwards.

Jump down and cap. Might have to kill the roaming guard if you haven't already. If you took five minutes and are in no CP, consider switching to the real campaign. Also consider switching to an MMO that doesn't center around broken stun abuse that calls itself CC but only works 1v1 or Xv1. Be sure to grab a motif for 60 bucks or a house for 120 beforehand, though!

Enjoy!

Just wanted to add: If you play on a CP campaign, disregard the above, run in face first and mash your two favorite buttons = win!

Yup, just spam Strife or Dark Flare.

Feanor

Yes of course you can solo resources even when they are level 5. It's not the point that it takes a while. Just wanted to see the abilities the NPCs use are applied correctly. Some skills, notably chains, Vampire's Bane, Eclipse and that green bubble CC skill don't observe LoS and hit through walls. Also CC itself is completely broken.

AdicusDio

To the thread creator: I can solo resources with only a bow and sometimes pull out dw if needed, and it's NOT bragging or gloating. A couple areas are harder than others, and farms really need at least 2 to beat the guard respawn before flag goes up. I run full medium PvE dps gear (more of an actual challenge in general) on a Khajiit nb and I will tell you I can NOT stand out in the open like that with the black bubble on me. They are casting that on you for reason, as well as other abilities meant to stop you.

Shield stacking or OP, semi-auto shields (that fire as fast as you can press it, in general) give too many overly abused builds a sense of "unstoppable", but need to have a cooldown. Shields should be 1st or last course of defense, not complete defense. Being able to get hurt in-game creates more urgency and makes one think before leaping into an area, or people relying on them so they can stand out in the open and wait for a player's resource (stam) to deplete. PvE enemies are not hindered in ways players are against other players. Remember that

Mureel wrote: »

[I also think that people who stand in siege fire should be rekt. It's obvious and it's meant to wreck walls and doors. We shouldn't be able to withstand a siege hit.

That would be nice. But maybe give it a stacking effect instead. Get hit once, you live. Get hit twice, health regen drops until OUT of aoe. Get hit 3 times, health goes to a hard 10% with a nasty tick. 4 times = death.

As it stands now, people just shrug off 3k to 15k ticks whether it's a ranged siege or molten pots...

Feanor

That would be nice. But maybe give it a stacking effect instead. Get hit once, you live. Get hit twice, health regen drops until OUT of aoe. Get hit 3 times, health goes to a hard 10% with a nasty tick. 4 times = death.

As it stands now, people just shrug off 3k to 15k ticks whether it's a ranged siege or molten pots...

I see you never got hit with siege in noCP.

Skander

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Each NPC is using the appropriate abilities as earned via the upgrade system and are not cross wired as they were during the initial launch of Morrowind several months ago. This was fixed on PC and Console platforms, and remains intact from that initial fix. This has been verified in code and in game by our QA department as well as Devs hopping online to verify.

That being said, with recent balance changes and adjustments to item sets, the guards may put forth more of a challenge. As a reminder, Resources are intended to be captured by a group of 2-4 players and while some players can take them solo, that is not the norm, nor what we balance guard abilities and difficulty around.

The problem are not the npc per se, but the ability that they have to spam ultimates as negate.
Their stun is not actually a stun, it's a disorient. If someone attacks you it can be breaked without leaving you a CC immunity. This provides a costant loop of ccs.