Kicking healers other then templars

mystfit

So, one of the guilds I was in...at least until yesterday...asked (told) all healers other then templars to get out of the guild. He followed up the chat rant with an email rant saying the same thing. He's the guild leader, he's well within his rights to run the guild as he sees fit. His issue seemed to be with providing stam to the group. Something I gather he felt made other healers useless. I am curious as to how many agree with his stance? <edited> To clarify, I'm curious about the stance of a healer needs to be a resource manager as well. It is my pleasure to assist the group however I can with whatever tools I may have (in this case a sorc). Also, as I had never grouped with the GL, this wasn't a personal attack at me nor did I take it as one.

IronCrystal

I don't know what type of guild you are in.

I don't know their priorities.

But what you are going to get is people arguing that anyone can heal. But none of us know your situation or the guild leader's side of the story.

Slack

I find templar healing just to be more idiot friendly, but sorcerer to actually be far better at it. (at least in dungeons)
Haven't tried it on other classes yet

mystfit

IronCrystal wrote: »

I don't know what type of guild you are in.

I don't know their priorities.

But what you are going to get is people arguing that anyone can heal. But none of us know your situation or the guild leader's side of the story.

I suppose I should clarify..and will in the OP..that what i"m curious about is the idea that the only healer worth having is one who provides resources?

Keep_Door

I agree with them that its their guild and they can run it however they want.

I dont care enough about PvE to know anything about what healers are the best though.

TheNuminous1

mystfit wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

I don't know what type of guild you are in.

I don't know their priorities.

But what you are going to get is people arguing that anyone can heal. But none of us know your situation or the guild leader's side of the story.

I suppose I should clarify..and will in the OP..that what i"m curious about is the idea that the only healer worth having is one who provides resources?

warden healers provide resources. and everyone can get orbs and master resto staff. he is mad that he cant cope with the sustain changes. and of course decides to blame the healer.

Vizikul

It's not the healer's job to manage the resources of the entire group. Sure, some help and buffs are useful and would be appreciated but if a dps can't handle his own resources that's his problem and I would rather ask the dps (who does no dps because he can't sustain) to leave than a sub-optimal healer.

idk

I do not understand kicking anyone out of a guild for such reasons. Forming a raid group going for high scores or pushing progression is an area I can see having preferences towards Templar and Warden classes. Templars still bring more utility and Luminous shards still outshines Orbs. Warden brings some nice group buffs to the group that cannot be matched by any other class with a great conal heal.

Templars are still considered the best raid healing class and a Warden pairs well with a Templar. I have cleared HM or at least 2 of the Craglorn trials with a DK healer.

Vizikul wrote: »

It's not the healer's job to manage the resources of the entire group. Sure, some help and buffs are useful and would be appreciated but if a dps can't handle his own resources that's his problem and I would rather ask the dps (who does no dps because he can't sustain) to leave than a sub-optimal healer.

@Vizikul

In an organized raid group it is part of the healers job to help the group out with resources and to provide buffs to increase their dps. Tanks and healers are more than just meat shields and heals in this game. In the same token dps are not to solely rely on the healer to keep them alive, they must help.

SydneyGrey

Wardens have a much cheaper healing ultimate, and can spam it more often. They also don't have to just stand in one spot while they do it, at least not for as long. They can cast it quickly and get back to fighting/healing in other ways. I think anyone who has a prejudice against warden healers just has never played a warden healer.

Slack

mystfit wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

I don't know what type of guild you are in.

I don't know their priorities.

But what you are going to get is people arguing that anyone can heal. But none of us know your situation or the guild leader's side of the story.

I suppose I should clarify..and will in the OP..that what i"m curious about is the idea that the only healer worth having is one who provides resources?

Yes you are supposed to make sure your groupmembers don't run out of resources and can do their job until the boss is dead. At least thats how I interpret being a healer.

The thing is, not only templars can do that. You got orbs for example which are accessible to all classes

Inhuman003

On this issue it will always be a two-sided coin. If the guildmaster is about trials I can understand his point of view wanting nothing but true Templar Healers. In my point of view the guildmaster may not like hybrid builds like Stam Sorc & Stamplar. Just leave the guild mate.

starkerealm

Inhuman003 wrote: »

On this issue it will always be a two-sided coin. If the guildmaster is about trials I can understand his point of view wanting nothing but true Templar Healers. In my point of view the guildmaster may not like hybrid builds like Stam Sorc & Stamplar. Just leave the guild mate.

At the same time, kicking people over it seems... of dubious intellectual merit.

I mean, I run 14 characters, with a wide variety of builds. Not all of those are going to be winners.

AcadianPaladin

I'm a templar healer. I love to see and welcome other class healers.

My priorities are:
Heals. That includes burst, area and multiple HoTs.
Assisting allies with mag/stam regen.
Debuffing the boss.
Dps.

As far as assisting with resource management, any healer can slot the wonderful spell Elemental Drain and help her mag fighters. Stam support is a bit tougher since both templar shards and orbs require very busy tanks/fighters to stop what they are doing to try and grab a synergy. In this regard, shards is an easier synergy to grab so templar healers have an edge at stam assisting.

What is needed is a 'steal stamina' ability, similar to the current 'steal magicka' ability. This would have the big advantage of not requiring tanks/fighters to try and 'catch' elusive synergies. Ideally this 'steal stamina' ability would be in the resto and/or destro staff line so healers of any class could use it.

Tan9oSuccka

Honestly, I'm not a fan of Warden or Sorc healers. They do the job, but I'd rather have a good Templar.

I would rather have steak instead of hamburgers.

Shardan4968

I made Bosmer magicka warden healer two days ago. I can't wait to be insulted in PvE by no-skill DPS.

Belyar

I wanted to make a sorc healer, guess I won't

medusasfolly

What type of guild is this? I don't think I'd want to be a part of any group where the leader dictates something as basic as this. I take that back. That isn't a leader. That's a dictator.

Vizikul

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@Vizikul

In an organized raid group it is part of the healers job to help the group out with resources and to provide buffs to increase their dps. Tanks and healers are more than just meat shields and heals in this game. In the same token dps are not to solely rely on the healer to keep them alive, they must help.

No , it's not a healer's job to manage your resources. It's called a healer for a reason, it's not called a buffer or a resource manager but a healer, their only job is to keep the party alive. Of course, buffs, debuffs and resources will always be appreciated but it's not their job. When you play a dps, it is your job to deal dmg. When dps characters just spam their abilities until they are out of resources then they can't deal dmg anymore, therefore they are not doing their job.

Spamming abilities such as shards will drain your own resources quite quickly, so, when you have to manage the resources of your group members you will run out of resources yourself and then you can't heal anymore. If the healer runs out of resources, the group will most likely wipe. If the dps run out of resources, the group will still make it through but it takes a while. You can clearly see, where the priorities are.

When you speak of an organized group, I suppose you mean a group of players, who know the game mechanics and are able to avoid the telegraphs and incoming dmg. Being in a such a group, where the healer doesn't constantly need to heal morons that stand in the red, actually allows the healer to provide some buffs and resources, why not? What else to do, when the group avoids dmg and doesn't need many heals, especially when you consider that avoiding dmg costs a lot of resources as well. Otherwise, the group should hire an additional 'resource manager', who just spams shards/ orbs.

starkerealm

Belyar wrote: »

I wanted to make a sorc healer, guess I won't

Sorc healers can be very strong. They're just a little tricky to learn.

IronCrystal

Vizikul wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@Vizikul

In an organized raid group it is part of the healers job to help the group out with resources and to provide buffs to increase their dps. Tanks and healers are more than just meat shields and heals in this game. In the same token dps are not to solely rely on the healer to keep them alive, they must help.

No , it's not a healer's job to manage your resources. It's called a healer for a reason, it's not called a buffer or a resource manager but a healer, their only job is to keep the party alive. Of course, buffs, debuffs and resources will always be appreciated but it's not their job. When you play a dps, it is your job to deal dmg. If dps characters just spam their abilities until they are out of resources then they can't deal dmg anymore, therefore they are not doing their job.

Spamming abilities such as shards will drain your own resources quite quickly, so, when you have to manage the resources of your group members you will run out of resources yourself and then you can't heal anymore. If the healer runs out of resources, the group will most likely wipe. If the dps run out of resources, the group will still make it through but it takes a while. You can clearly see, where the priorities are.

When you speak of an organized group, I suppose you mean a group of players, who know the game mechanics and are able to avoid the telegraphs and incoming dmg. Being in a such a group, where the healer doesn't constantly need to heal morons that stand in the red, actually allows the healer to provide some buffs and resources, why not? What else to do, when the group avoids dmg and doesn't need many heals, especially when you consider that avoiding dmg costs a lot of resources as well. Otherwise, the group should hire an additional resource manager, which job is to spam shards/ orbs.

It's pretty clear you don't participate in good trials groups.

Sure, your dps can't be stupid when it comes to resources. If they constantly spam high cost skills then they are gonna run out.

But it is the healers job to keep a steady flow of resources coming in. It is proven that the DPS are far more effective when they can just focus on doing all the damage they can and not have to worry about resource management because the healer does it for them. That's why it is so apparent when you have a good healer vs a bad healer in a trial. DPS will suffer if the healer is not doing their job of providing resources.

The healer should never be running out of resources. A shard is nothing for a healer to throw. Orbs? You should have about 4 of them floating around every 10 or so seconds (different for different healers)..

To get the best damage...often times that means the dps are taking damage. You know how to complete Ra Kotu the fastest? Everyone stands in the whirling tornados and the healer heals through them. You know how to kill the storm atronach the fastest? Everyone stands in lighting (shields of course) and the healers heal through them. You know how to kill the mantikora the fastest? Everyone just straight burns the boss after the popcorn phase.

Having the healer dishing out buffs, debuffs, heals, and resources is how groups become the most effective.

Trinity_Is_My_Name

1) Guild leader has issues with people
2) Sounds like he/she needs to go work in the Correctional system where he can dominate others
3) Why would anyone stay in a guild where the "leader" demands everyone do as h e demands?

and lastly: It's a game. No one should go nuts over a game and act the way he did. Find a decent guild with people who want to have fun. That guy is toxic.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

it just shows to me the guild leader is a meta person, they can't see past their nose, just ignore them, best way to go i know alot of yellows on eu sever who ignore 2 screaming yellows who shout at peeps in pvp, they ingore them so just do the same thing

paulsimonps

Vizikul wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@Vizikul

In an organized raid group it is part of the healers job to help the group out with resources and to provide buffs to increase their dps. Tanks and healers are more than just meat shields and heals in this game. In the same token dps are not to solely rely on the healer to keep them alive, they must help.

No , it's not a healer's job to manage your resources. It's called a healer for a reason, it's not called a buffer or a resource manager but a healer, their only job is to keep the party alive. Of course, buffs, debuffs and resources will always be appreciated but it's not their job. When you play a dps, it is your job to deal dmg. When dps characters just spam their abilities until they are out of resources then they can't deal dmg anymore, therefore they are not doing their job.

Spamming abilities such as shards will drain your own resources quite quickly, so, when you have to manage the resources of your group members you will run out of resources yourself and then you can't heal anymore. If the healer runs out of resources, the group will most likely wipe. If the dps run out of resources, the group will still make it through but it takes a while. You can clearly see, where the priorities are.

When you speak of an organized group, I suppose you mean a group of players, who know the game mechanics and are able to avoid the telegraphs and incoming dmg. Being in a such a group, where the healer doesn't constantly need to heal morons that stand in the red, actually allows the healer to provide some buffs and resources, why not? What else to do, when the group avoids dmg and doesn't need many heals, especially when you consider that avoiding dmg costs a lot of resources as well. Otherwise, the group should hire an additional 'resource manager', who just spams shards/ orbs.

Do you run in veteran Trial groups? Cause if that is your line of thinking I would feel bad for any team you heal. As Giles said, there is more to the roles of healer and tank in this game, there is no bard in this game, we don't have a buff class/role. That role is shared by the Tank and the healer. Also if you spam shards to the point where you can't do anything else then that is your problem in throwing too many.

Also its not like there are a ton of skills that can help with resources, and you don't have to do them 24/7, use them when needed, as well something like the orbs can also be morphed to heal and is actually a very strong heal.

I mean, do you not apply minor magicka steal? When a tank is low on stamina do you just let him die? Do you just 100% heal and nothing else? That would probably get you kicked out of quite a lot of Trial groups.

As well to OP, that GM sounds extremely toxic, he is his right to do so but I would not stay in a guild like that if I were you. Wardens makes great healers to combine with a Templar in Trials. As well, in group dungeons sorcs and NB's are amazing as well. Does this GM do the same when it comes to DPS and TANK? Only DK Tanks and mag sorc DPS? Seems silly as hell. I mean why be like that for guildies? I mean for progression groups sure he can be picky but for just having a toon like that while in the guild? Extreme. People can play whatever they want in solo or group dungeons, anything will work there. And as said he can be picky in Trials but it would be and is really toxic to be like that for the whole guild at all times.

Slack

Belyar wrote: »

I wanted to make a sorc healer, guess I won't

Do it. Sorc has the best burst heal in group play (twilight matriarch).
Good sustain, minor intellect (+10% mana Regen for you and close allies)
And the best of it all : the ability to slot 15 different skills

hmsdragonfly

mystfit wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

I don't know what type of guild you are in.

I don't know their priorities.

But what you are going to get is people arguing that anyone can heal. But none of us know your situation or the guild leader's side of the story.

I suppose I should clarify..and will in the OP..that what i"m curious about is the idea that the only healer worth having is one who provides resources?

All healers can provide resources now, not just Templar.

starkerealm

Slack wrote: »

Belyar wrote: »

I wanted to make a sorc healer, guess I won't

Do it. Sorc has the best burst heal in group play (twilight matriarch).
Good sustain, minor intellect (+10% mana Regen for you and close allies)
And the best of it all : the ability to slot 15 different skills

Also those non-trivial cost discounts from Dark Magic. It can take some doing to get the hang of them, but sorcs can excel in all three rolls.

generalmyrick

Slack wrote: »

I find templar healing just to be more idiot friendly, but sorcerer to actually be far better at it. (at least in dungeons)
Haven't tried it on other classes yet

Details! Please! Specifically how a sorc healer is better. Curious, not angry in case I get attacked.

exeeter702

Having main healed all vet hm trials except hof as a nb, i find your guild leader to be incredibly ignorant and in need of education.

Slack

generalmyrick wrote: »

Slack wrote: »

I find templar healing just to be more idiot friendly, but sorcerer to actually be far better at it. (at least in dungeons)
Haven't tried it on other classes yet

Details! Please! Specifically how a sorc healer is better. Curious, not angry in case I get attacked.

Best burst heal in game with twilight matriarch (hits 1 more target than BoL)
You have a good shield for you and your pet that provides your group (when in close range) with minor intellect (+10% mana regen)
In case you run out of mana, just activate dark conversion a few times.
When you slot Overload, you can have 15 abilities. (tho, the pet should be on all 3 bars)

About resources : Use orbs, or circle of protection (for Stam toons), elemental drain..

So yes, sorc also offers everything that templars do, templar are just easier to build.

The only exception is a healing ulti like Rite of Passage, but once you've got used to Healing Springs, that's also no issue anymore

mystfit

Whether the GL was a tad to assertive or not (and yes, I did leave the guild), I figure there is some value and making sure I'm doing 'all the right stuff' and I think I could use orbs more then I do (which is mostly not much). I enjoy healing on my sorc so plan on doing more of it!

kichwas

The is not law against being an idiot. Much as we sometimes might desire it... we'd all be locked up if there was one.

Everybody gets their moment to shine, and your guild leader has now had his.


Now my baby Warden healer is only level 11, but I have already unlocked some 'resources':

Enchanted Growth - 10% stam and mag recover boost for 20 seconds.

- Is this not the same as what they're claiming the Templar brings?
- This is just my first thing to have unlocked that does more than a heal.
- I don't need corpses to be in range of me to do this. That can be important in boss fights or chain running through trash.