Unused powers and sets.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Dear ZoS,

It's time to take a hard look at all the powers and sets ingame that are passed over. Morphs that are never taken, set that's are never worn. We have a long list of sets so many things to choose from yet many wear a small number of them.

People like me are very sick and tired of having to look at morphs and sets that will simply never be used. I have played this game since closed beta and I have never used Leeching Strikes on my main Nightblade till it was turned to a heal and no later a sustain power.
We have so many sets that open up play styles as well add new / unique counter play. This can to simple questions like Magic, Statima, or Health. PvP or PvE. I understand this may take a few months it could be put away.

scipionumatia

Silver bolts, trapping webs and bone shield could use a rework. All 3 have good concepts but they're unused mostly because the cost isn't worth the skill.
Cleave, arrow spray, scattershot could use some love. (Although I did see a nb make pretty good use of scattershot recently. Range could use an increase)
Don't get me started on sets haha

starkerealm

Silver Bolts has a use now, in some stamina builds, simply for the passive effect of boosting your weapon damage (by 3%, I think), but the point does hold.

dpencil1

There are a few important bits of data to consider when thinking about this issue:

1. ZOS has metrics on what skills and sets are used. They can see if no one uses a particular morph or set.

2. How a set or skill behave can be effected by things that are secondary to the thing itself. For example, it could have been argued pre-Morrowind that sets with a 5-piece bonus that procced on heavy attack were trash because heavy attacling was largely unnecessary. Enter Morrowind, now those sets are more viable. So the answer sometimes doesn't actually come from changing the set or skill itself but other aspects of the game that impact them.

3. If 2 is true (which it is), then making changes to skills or sets directly before implementating other secondary changes would cause them to become unbalanced again after the secondary change was implemented. Basically, there are many variables at play, so it makes more sense to get to a stable game state with whatever global game changes are intended for the forseeable future before fine tuning sets and morphs.

4. As much as we might think "everyone uses this set/morph" remember that we are only a subset of the game population. Just pug dungeons for a while to realize how many people who play ESO don't chase the meta, crunch numbers, parse above 20k, choose morphs/sets because of effectiveness over style. This has a tendancy to skew the data the devs see away from the idea that these morphs/sets are not used by anyone.

Now with all that being said, do I think sets and morphs should continue being adjusted? Absolutely. Just make sure you consider that proposition with a broader view than your own particular opinion.

For example, if I were a strict PvP mSorc who thought pets were nothing but an annoyance, I might wish that Daedric Prey be dropped for another more meaningful choice. But of course that would be ignoring pet sorcs entirely. The same could be said of Crystal Shards/Blast. "Who in their right mind would ever run Blast over Shards?" you say. But if I'm a zerg balling AOE spammer I might think Crystal Shards is great fun.

If anything, I think the latest rounds of patch notes from the PTS show that ZOS has been working on some very fundamental changes to how gameplay works, first with Morrowind, cutting back on infinite sustain, and now balancing mundus and traits. We've even seen quite a few gear adjustments. When the fundamental aspects of gameplay are where the dev team wants them, I think that's when we'll see more tweaking of sets and morphs across the board. Because then the foundation those things sit on won't be shifting under them, at least not to an extreme extent.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

@dpencil1 I also see the changes ZoS is trying to make which is why I say this now before there was no chance any changes would be made but with all the game changes in and more on the way it would be great if sets and powers were not over looked again.

I know they are rebalancing the monster sets and some proc sets. But sets like Ice Furnace has been a set of the past for three years. It was good way back when staffs used weapon damage and weapon crit. When Spell damage was just for class power.

Their are many sets that on paper don't look bad till you think about the meta set that does it better. I know not all players roll the meta or FOTM. But their is something to be said about how useful a set or power is if it's not used anywhere where power matters.

Giraffon

Chasing dropped sets is a pain. I slap on some Twice Born Star with two Mundus stones that compliment my build and then go grab an overland set (jewelry) that's not too hard to find that also compliments my build. Done in less than an hour with a decent build. It's not vet maelstrom gear, so I don't have any bragging rights, but I manage well enough.

If I could craft jewelry I wouldn't have a care in the world! Still waitin' on it though.

Drdeath20

Templars have a few head scratchers.

Solar barrage- morph of solar flair, aka the other morph of dark flair. It is no longer a hard hitting single target spell. Instead it is a pulse emmitted from the casters body with a 5 meter radius. Problem is it is not a strong spell. Templars already have sweeps which is cheaper, hits harder and has better utility as our cheap spammable. I literally cannot find a use for this skill.

Healing ritual and its morphs. Its not that these skills are useless but they are just flat out inferior to templars other healing spell. A healing spell with a cast time is a bad combination. If your playing the game as a healer, its more effective to just use the resoration staff skill line or breath of life. If your playong the game solo and need a heal spell, this skill is a terrible option. Like other templar skills this is another niche skill.

mb10

I actually think trapping webs is a very good skill but is not "meta"
If your team actually uses the synergy, it can do around 15k damage depending on the build and the initial damage is a quite good too


Having said that though, there are a few skills that I think are quite useless

Agony from the NB skill line...lol

idk

I think we might be surprised at how few sets are not used.

runagate

mb10 wrote: »

Agony from the NB skill line...lol

Due to the bug there's occasionally people who will use this on mounted characters for a gank ambush.

Karmanorway

I partly agree, i think the sets are good for new players, but zos could add more sets that most likely will be used by endgame players

And yes some skills does indeed need a rework, and less cost to use

Tasear

scipionumatia wrote: »

Silver bolts, trapping webs and bone shield could use a rework. All 3 have good concepts but they're unused mostly because the cost isn't worth the skill.
Cleave, arrow spray, scattershot could use some love. (Although I did see a nb make pretty good use of scattershot recently. Range could use an increase)
Don't get me started on sets haha

Bone shield is very common. Both morphs are excellent. There's one for a tank to take that rebounds damage. The healing one is 8 more heals to allies... there's a 5 piece set like that >. >

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/dark-priestess-pug-proof/edit/

Here's how I use it.

P.S a bit more range or longer time to click synergy would be nice

starkerealm

mb10 wrote: »

I actually think trapping webs is a very good skill but is not "meta"
If your team actually uses the synergy, it can do around 15k damage depending on the build and the initial damage is a quite good too


Having said that though, there are a few skills that I think are quite useless

Agony from the NB skill line...lol

Agony can be really aggravating to deal with in PvP. Not, "oh, I win," but it can distract an opponent. It's not great, but it does have some utility there.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, it might be really good in Relic battleground matches.

bubbygink

mb10 wrote: »

Agony from the NB skill line...lol

People always say this skill is bad but I don't see why it gets all the hate. It is very strong in duels in particular, so much so that many people think the Maelific Wreath morph may be bugged. In fact, on XBox NA Agony and its morphs are typically 100% banned from dueling tournaments because it is too OP. The Meteor + Maelific Wreath combo can basically be an auto-kill if done right. It is funny seeing people complain about this skill being so bad on forums when I have not even been able to use it in dueling tournaments because it is deemed too good.

Mojmir

Does anyone even use the 1h/shield ultimate?
Genuinely curious,I don't like that the entire skill line is subpar for a dps character either.

SugaComa

scipionumatia wrote: »

Silver bolts, trapping webs and bone shield could use a rework. All 3 have good concepts but they're unused mostly because the cost isn't worth the skill.
Cleave, arrow spray, scattershot could use some love. (Although I did see a nb make pretty good use of scattershot recently. Range could use an increase)
Don't get me started on sets haha

You're kidding right

Nearly every dungeon I go in has one person running bone sheild

actosh

Way more range and reduction of cost would be needed for bone shield.

SugaComa

Mojmir wrote: »

Does anyone even use the 1h/shield ultimate?
Genuinely curious,I don't like that the entire skill line is subpar for a dps character either.

That's cos it's a tank skill line not a DPS one

Neoauspex

Mojmir wrote: »

Does anyone even use the 1h/shield ultimate?
Genuinely curious,I don't like that the entire skill line is subpar for a dps character either.

In PvP it's spectacular

QuebraRegra

dpencil1 wrote: »

There are a few important bits of data to consider when thinking about this issue:

1. ZOS has metrics on what skills and sets are used. They can see if no one uses a particular morph or set.

yet to despite that statement by ZOS, we never see any changes to any skills, etc. based on what the metrics must be reporting.

I really like BIOWARE during the MASSEFFECT3 MP... they not only posted metrics information but balanced (sometimes weekly) based on the information they collected, and kept the player base informed of all changes.

QuebraRegra

SugaComa wrote: »

scipionumatia wrote: »

Silver bolts, trapping webs and bone shield could use a rework. All 3 have good concepts but they're unused mostly because the cost isn't worth the skill.
Cleave, arrow spray, scattershot could use some love. (Although I did see a nb make pretty good use of scattershot recently. Range could use an increase)
Don't get me started on sets haha

You're kidding right

Nearly every dungeon I go in has one person running bone sheild

I've not seen that... unless it's a tank. BONESHIELD was great (LOL) when for a hot second it scaled off max STAM the way a SORC shield scales off max MAG... the qq was so great the nerf was almost immediate... interesting considering the way other shield scaling remains unchanged

QuebraRegra

bubbygink wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

Agony from the NB skill line...lol

People always say this skill is bad but I don't see why it gets all the hate. It is very strong in duels in particular, so much so that many people think the Maelific Wreath morph may be bugged. In fact, on XBox NA Agony and its morphs are typically 100% banned from dueling tournaments because it is too OP. The Meteor + Maelific Wreath combo can basically be an auto-kill if done right. It is funny seeing people complain about this skill being so bad on forums when I have not even been able to use it in dueling tournaments because it is deemed too good.

dueling is a cancer

QuebraRegra

mb10 wrote: »

I actually think trapping webs is a very good skill but is not "meta"
If your team actually uses the synergy, it can do around 15k damage depending on the build and the initial damage is a quite good too


Having said that though, there are a few skills that I think are quite useless

Agony from the NB skill line...lol

and PUG says "what's a synergy".. and off the bar it goes

IxskullzxI

Mojmir wrote: »

Does anyone even use the 1h/shield ultimate?
Genuinely curious,I don't like that the entire skill line is subpar for a dps character either.

It's used quite a bit in pvp. Can't comment on pve, I don't play it. But yeah, in pvp It's a strong ult.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

runagate wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

Agony from the NB skill line...lol

Due to the bug there's occasionally people who will use this on mounted characters for a gank ambush.

That's the problem it's bugged sometimes a power being good cause it's bugged means it's bad.

bubbygink wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

Agony from the NB skill line...lol

People always say this skill is bad but I don't see why it gets all the hate. It is very strong in duels in particular, so much so that many people think the Maelific Wreath morph may be bugged. In fact, on XBox NA Agony and its morphs are typically 100% banned from dueling tournaments because it is too OP. The Meteor + Maelific Wreath combo can basically be an auto-kill if done right. It is funny seeing people complain about this skill being so bad on forums when I have not even been able to use it in dueling tournaments because it is deemed too good.

Dueling doesn't count. I know it's weird to say a PvP mode is not useable in a PvP comment but it's a 1v1. You can't have outside forces impacting you so you wear gear and run powers to fight one guy.

The problem with Agony and it's morphs is the break on damage this is 100% useless if you run any DoTs as the tick will kill the CC and grant immunity. It has a DoT on itself so if you recast too soon you will stop your own CC from holding.

Maelific Wreath is very weak you need to have a target sit for 10 seconds to get to the damage of Prolonged Suffering. If you sit in a CC for that long you are bugged or very bad as even base stamina regen from zero when have you back up before then.
Agony is just not good dualing is a whole different thing then normal PvP.

TheDoomsdayMonster

Baleful Mist could definitely use some work...

Its not terrible (it can cause certain Proc Sets to Proc), its just significantly inferior to Elusive Mist...

Mojmir

SugaComa wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Does anyone even use the 1h/shield ultimate?
Genuinely curious,I don't like that the entire skill line is subpar for a dps character either.

That's cos it's a tank skill line not a DPS one

It should be more diverse than that,shield throwing/dps morphs.
Dual wield/2h is boring

Joosef_Kivikilpi

mb10 wrote: »

I actually think trapping webs is a very good skill but is not "meta"
If your team actually uses the synergy, it can do around 15k damage depending on the build and the initial damage is a quite good too


Having said that though, there are a few skills that I think are quite useless

Agony from the NB skill line...lol

Probably one of the most fun skills to use... but it's broken and needs reworked. The morphs are terrible and don't do jack, but also... damage over time should NOT break the Agony hard CC.

I've ran this skill a few times to cheese people... and actually cheesed them so hardcore and wiped them hahaha - it's like DK fossilize... but breaks on ANY damage... needs to be fixed to change that to make it consistently worthwhile.

Tasear

Blood atlar synergy could be looked at...I mean have you ever seen that used?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Mojmir wrote: »

SugaComa wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Does anyone even use the 1h/shield ultimate?
Genuinely curious,I don't like that the entire skill line is subpar for a dps character either.

That's cos it's a tank skill line not a DPS one

It should be more diverse than that,shield throwing/dps morphs.
Dual wield/2h is boring

Then use class skills, S/B is incredibly effective for defense. To the point where if it was any better at dps, there would be no point to use the other weapons.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Baleful Mist could definitely use some work...

Its not terrible (it can cause certain Proc Sets to Proc), its just significantly inferior to Elusive Mist...

I have used this on magic canon it was okay but never again.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

SugaComa wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Does anyone even use the 1h/shield ultimate?
Genuinely curious,I don't like that the entire skill line is subpar for a dps character either.

That's cos it's a tank skill line not a DPS one

It should be more diverse than that,shield throwing/dps morphs.
Dual wield/2h is boring

Then use class skills, S/B is incredibly effective for defense. To the point where if it was any better at dps, there would be no point to use the other weapons.

True as this is, that main set is why we have so many useless and poorly designed powers. Archers are deadly they can turn anything not covered in metal to a pin cushion unless you play a MMO where range gets a damage nerf. That's not have that weapon works and yes you can't have realistic things in a fantasy world but besides the staffs the weapons are carbon copies of the real things.

You didn't see many people with two weapons or two handed weapons. Sword/Axe/Mace and Shield was always the best best the power to attack and guard.