ZOS, IT IS TIME. PATH OF DARKNESS PHYSICAL DAMAGE MORPH PLEASE!!! PVE DPS

f047ys3v3n

Realistically, in this scenario mNB would then have just the lower damage of refreshing path as twisting would presumably become the stam morph. In this case mNB takes a big dps loss in precisely the skill that was buffed to bring it back to relevance. On the other hand, if ZOS bucked tradition and went with the heal morph for the stam that might actually be interesting as sNB is short on heals. As primarily an mNB, I would still be a little sad though as refreshing path is pretty important now in vMA since you can no longer afford to cast the number of sheilds that you used to be able to compensate for the lack of the refreshing morph supplementing the rather week heals from swallow soul. Perhaps swallow soul / funnel health could have a little of the mega series of nerfs it got reversed as that skill suffered (removal of double crit heals+ removal of one heal + cost increase + second, massive 30% cost increase) all in a short time. On the other hand, if the siphoning strikes heal was a bit better (probably would need to be an actual HOT of at least 1.5k/sec and not just a heal on light attack of 1k) the mNB would not need the refreshing option and siphoning might actually matter as it's resource return is laughable and certainly not worth slotting it for.

Anyhow, sNB is a load out that I do not find very compelling in terms of the variety of what it can do and because of it's terrible heals situation so I do agree with you that some depth could be added to it's kit. Maybe the refreshing morph becoming stam coupled with siphoning becoming a stronger heal for the mNB would be a good set of changes. As for sNB doing too much damage then... Well, I think we all know the OP spammable skill that could be nerfed a little to fix that issue.

Shadzilla

aliyavana wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

@Dymence @ChildOfLight Can either of you link me a stamblade parse pulling more than 65k single target please? Just to see how much "better" they are. From my experiences stam dk pull much higher numbers due to the fact they have claw.

I'm pretty sure stam dks have better single target dps than nb, nb is that class that makes ppl salty due to gankers so players wouldn't want them to get buffed in pve as it would affect pvp as well sadly

@aliyavana Laying down a ground based aoe would not affect ganking at all...

Knootewoot wrote: »

I want magicka morph of bow skills and use my magical spectral bow

@Knootewoot Sure, I would like a physical damage morph of destro ult

crobarXIII wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Runschei wrote: »

This would hurt the magica nightblade pretty bad tho

You're right. It's not a good idea for balance as a whole.

Mag would still have either twisting or refreshing... I did not ask for both morphs to be stam, just one of them.

My nb tank uses refreshing path & the times I decide to change him to dps for a change of pace I like the option of being able to use either depending on what I want to do. So in my opinion a stamina morph is a bad idea.

@crobarXIII Combine twisting and refreshing into one skill, making room for a stam morph and buffing both blades slightly

Slick_007 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

Title says it all. There really needs to be a poison morph of this skill. It would allow stamblades to compete with stam dks considering they have claw.

Please leave your opinion on if you agree or not, and why.

...but Nightblades don't have a poison synergy. If you want to play a venomous character, that is a stamina knight. For all the flashy murdery bits, poisoning people just isn't the NB's modus operandi.

havent you seen the other thread? NB dont leave people alive long enough for poison to tick.

@Slick_007 This is a PVE thread, bosses tend to live long enough

Supernatural wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

@Dymence @ChildOfLight Can either of you link me a stamblade parse pulling more than 65k single target please? Just to see how much "better" they are. From my experiences stam dk pull much higher numbers due to the fact they have claw.

The main reason Streak One achieved such a high DPS parse on his DK is because of all the buffs and debuffs his group was providing. I am pretty sure a stamblade can get pretty the same numbers under the same conditions.

@Supernatural I am well aware that the group buffs and debuffs are a big part of the parse numbers. Don't get me wrong nbs are not insanely far behind, but dks are doing more (and always have), which is why I proposed this change.

Huyen wrote: »

Every class-skill is based of magicka to start with. I do agree that there have to be more stamina-morphs, but then you have to redo all classes, not just the NB only.

@Huyen I agree, stamina should have many more options than it does currently. The ratio is really lopsided into magicka having sooooo many options while stamina really is limited.

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

Shad it's crazy how much pve complaining you do when you have no top end experience. You're asking to shaft magblades so the second highest stam dps can compete with the first by a measily few K single target. Endless hail is already the best ground dot in the game and caltrops got a major buff. So you're asking for a major aoe buff which would put Mag even further behind just so stamblade can get 2-3K more single target to compete with the most broken class in the game.

Also that 64K single stam dk you referenced earlier is on my raid team, and our stamblade wearing 2 buff sets only lost by 4K single.

@TotallyNotVos Yea my desktop broke down early this year and I have been running a 7 year old laptop just to log in and do writs for most of this year, going to school at the age of 31 and working full time really hurts the bank. Keep in mind that for last year I was running with Wet Noodles and we usually ranked within the top 3-5 groups on weekly boards, every week, we also grinded out vmaw for months in the middle of last year just like everyone else. I mean that may not be on the World #1 tier that you are on *bows* but I still have 1000s of hours in the game and feel that not just the top 50 players in the world are allowed to express their opinions or suggestions. I am not asking for magblades to take a nerf, I actually think they should combine twistings damage into refreshing, then turn twisting into a stam morph which would buff both blades. You are saying 2-3k more single target will put mag even further behind? Dude you guys just did #1 HRC with 8 mag sorcs last patch... Magicka has been beyond dominant for the last 3.5 years except 3 patches... TG DB and now... As far as I am concerned I would like to see some 8 stam dps world #1 runs for awhile. So now groups are running some stam dks for single target damage, and a buff to stamblades to put them up on that level doesn't seem just? Alright.

mb10 wrote: »

How would that skill translate to a stamina ability ?
It's very clearly a magic spell

@mb10 That is the problem, everything is a magicka spell. Keep in mind 9 nightblade skills have magicka only morphs available, as opposed to 0 stamina only morph options. The ratio is really lopsided into magicka having sooooo many options while stamina really is limited. Does not mean we cannot ask for a change, example merciless resolve last year!

TheStealthDude wrote: »

No. Stam vs magicka morphs are already pretty boring in that you are pigeon-holed into one or the other, depending on your class. I like that most morphs provide meaningful choices, where both are usable. By changing more abilities to have both a magicka and a Stam morph, you are removing meaningful choices from the game. And nightblade already lacks in this department enough as is, due to having the most stamina morphs of any class.

@TheStealthDude Most morphs provide meaningful choices, where both are usable? I highly disagree. Keep in mind 9 nightblade skills have magicka only morphs available, as opposed to 0 stamina only morph options. The ratio is really lopsided into magicka having sooooo many options while stamina really is limited.

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Runschei wrote: »

This would hurt the magica nightblade pretty bad tho

You're right. It's not a good idea for balance as a whole.

Mag would still have either twisting or refreshing... I did not ask for both morphs to be stam, just one of them.

Which means magicka would probably be left with refreshing and hence nerfed.

Not suggesting there shouldn't be a stam morph. Merely pointing out the obvious path Zos would follow.

The only way the OP's idea would work is if ZoS made Refreshing Path have the same damage as Twisting Path AND provide the heal. Then, you could have the other morph reworked to something like "Infectious Path" that deals disease damage.

@Vercingetorix Sounds like a great idea to me, path should be stronger regardless.

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

Realistically, in this scenario mNB would then have just the lower damage of refreshing path as twisting would presumably become the stam morph. In this case mNB takes a big dps loss in precisely the skill that was buffed to bring it back to relevance. On the other hand, if ZOS bucked tradition and went with the heal morph for the stam that might actually be interesting as sNB is short on heals. As primarily an mNB, I would still be a little sad though as refreshing path is pretty important now in vMA since you can no longer afford to cast the number of sheilds that you used to be able to compensate for the lack of the refreshing morph supplementing the rather week heals from swallow soul. Perhaps swallow soul / funnel health could have a little of the mega series of nerfs it got reversed as that skill suffered (removal of double crit heals+ removal of one heal + cost increase + second, massive 30% cost increase) all in a short time. On the other hand, if the siphoning strikes heal was a bit better (probably would need to be an actual HOT of at least 1.5k/sec and not just a heal on light attack of 1k) the mNB would not need the refreshing option and siphoning might actually matter as it's resource return is laughable and certainly not worth slotting it for.

Anyhow, sNB is a load out that I do not find very compelling in terms of the variety of what it can do and because of it's terrible heals situation so I do agree with you that some depth could be added to it's kit. Maybe the refreshing morph becoming stam coupled with siphoning becoming a stronger heal for the mNB would be a good set of changes. As for sNB doing too much damage then... Well, I think we all know the OP spammable skill that could be nerfed a little to fix that issue.

@f047ys3v3n Regardless of what you post, it always has a large amount of depth and reasonable insight. Your opinions and thoughts are always very accurate I can tell you care about the class as well as balance, for that I thank you.

Foxic

@Shadzilla I'm not trying to stroke my epeen by saying you aren't in a top group. I'm saying I don't think you understand how good stamblade is right now because you haven't seen one in an optimised group. And no the extra 2-3K single from a stam path won't kill Mag builds, it's that they're already just barely winning for aoe damage. But are behind ~10-15K on single target.

Yes last patch we ran all Magicka dps, that doesn't mean over buffing stam this patch is balance. Stam has had higher single target for a long time, it's just that magicka aoe was more important

hedna123b14_ESO

Stamblades are just fine in DPS...honestly the only way to address DK dps dominance os to add another stam DoT that all stam can use. DK bars are pretty full as is so the other classes would benefit from this change a lot more.

idk

@Shadzilla

You state NBs have 9 skills with only magicka morphs and none with only stam morphs. Considering that all class skills start with magacka non of them should have both morphs costing stamina.

Further, I really don't want my blur costing stamina. Well, I guess we could make blur stam, both morphs to make more players happy.

More importantly to the stamina has access to 3 weapon lines designed for damage for a total of 13 damage skills (26 damage morphs) and 3 ultimates (morphs). That comepates to one magicka damage weapon with a total of 4 damage skills (damage morphs) and one ultimate (1 morph).

Further, all those skills are available for any class making the argument about stam class morphs rather weak at best.

Not counting morphs. That's 13 + 3 to 4 + 1.

Add up all the damage skills for each classs and I bet stam ends up coming ahead in the game. my bet is some will add in pure buffs to try to make it look even.

QuebraRegra

Knootewoot wrote: »

I want magicka morph of bow skills and use my magical spectral bow

you'll get that in the update featuring BOUND WEAPONS.... which will come right after JEWELRY CRAFTING.... which will come just night of the apocalyptic end of the world.

Anti_Virus

Or instead let's get more stam morphs for stam DK.

Shadzilla

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

@Shadzilla I'm not trying to stroke my epeen by saying you aren't in a top group. I'm saying I don't think you understand how good stamblade is right now because you haven't seen one in an optimised group. And no the extra 2-3K single from a stam path won't kill Mag builds, it's that they're already just barely winning for aoe damage. But are behind ~10-15K on single target.

Yes last patch we ran all Magicka dps, that doesn't mean over buffing stam this patch is balance. Stam has had higher single target for a long time, it's just that magicka aoe was more important

I know stamblades are up there, I watch most of @Jeckll 's videos as well. I believe they are also running well optimised groups.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37VncQTzMSE
I just have never seen a time in this game where they were on top. For example the 3 patches that stamina has been relevant, stam dks were always pulling the higher parses. I would like to see stamblades up to their level, or exceeding it. Considering stam dks have always been meta end game tanks, and meta single target dps (in the 3 aforementioned patches), I don't think its an insane request. I agree that over buffing anything is stupid, correct me if I am wrong but I have a few friends in your exact group that were saying you guys had some players hitting 62k single target on rakotu last patch? The fact that mag sorcs were pulling that, at ranged with shields, is disgusting. The best stam players in the world had to play flawlessly to barely breach 52k last patch, was ridiculous. I think we are all in the same agreement that stamina should have clearly superior single target dps, as well as magicka with clearly superior aoe. I am glad that we are in another patch where stam toons are plausible, and enjoy seeing groups having a few of them in raids again. From my point of view, stam dks are always at the top of single target dps, I think giving nightblades a stam morph of path would hopefully knock them off their throne for a bit. I get jealous when stam dks are the best possible class for tanks and stam dps constantly, I mean share the wealth!!! Keep in mind if my main was a stam dk since beta my views would be much different, as I'm sure many are.

SirGabenOfSteamia

Nerf mag

Shadzilla

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Stamblades are just fine in DPS...honestly the only way to address DK dps dominance os to add another stam DoT that all stam can use. DK bars are pretty full as is so the other classes would benefit from this change a lot more.

I am not saying they are far behind, but they are behind and they always have been. All stam toons have always been behind stam dks as far as parses go. This is just a request to give stamblades a boost, I do fear adding an ability that everyone can use dks would still make it work and keep their throne.

Shadzilla

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Or instead let's get more stam morphs for stam DK.

To further the gap between how much damage stam dks do compared to all other stam classes? Stam dks have always been the must have meta tank, as well as the best possible stam dps... That does not make sense, there has to be a time in this game where stamina dragonknights are not doing the most damage possible out of all the stam toons. Stam dks are even referred to by the devs as the "tank" class fairly often. They have so many class skills and passives devoted to being the best possible tank class in the game. Considering they are the only viable tank option for top tier end game content, they should not be outparsing everyone else.

hedna123b14_ESO

Shadzilla wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Stamblades are just fine in DPS...honestly the only way to address DK dps dominance os to add another stam DoT that all stam can use. DK bars are pretty full as is so the other classes would benefit from this change a lot more.

I am not saying they are far behind, but they are behind and they always have been. All stam toons have always been behind stam dks as far as parses go. This is just a request to give stamblades a boost, I do fear adding an ability that everyone can use dks would still make it work and keep their throne.

Thats the thing man DK bars are full right now. They currently have a single apace flex and it either holds vigor or molten. Other classes never hit DK numbers because more DoTs in todays meta always win. Adding another DoT (possibly not tied to a weapon such as undaunted) would help bring up the other classes, especially of the DoT added is not a psn one. Let me explain why this change would be amazing:
1. If a DK chooses to add it to their flex slot they will lose DoT uptime, since the current rotation already exceeds 10 sec.
2. If a DK slots this new DoT instead of anothet one of their DoTs they will only gain marginal damage if at all, since they would also give up one of their DoTs.
3. Other classes have flex spots and thus benefit much more from an additional available DoT.

Also another way to raise NB DPS is to fix impale. The additive scaling of damage dealt really affects its performance.

As an aside - the class parsing lowest in trials has always been stamplar. You dont think I want them to be on top as well? Adding a non-class non-weapon DoT would help them as well. They definitely need some love...at least PvE wise...

Jhalin

The NB class trees are honestly fine as they are. The standard PvE stam builds don't even have a spot for Path to fit into. The reason most morphs for NB class skills cost mag is because they aren't scaling abilities.

Blur is a timed buff
Shadow Cloak is a timed effect
Mark Target is a debuff
Aspect of Terror is a fear
Agony and Cripple are primarily CC

Right there are 6 abilities that would have no real benefit to a stam scaling. The only significant damage/healing abilities that are exclusive to mag are Strife, Path, and Summon Shade. The only one I can imagine a stam morph for would be the Shades, simply because they attack using swords and bows.

Shadzilla

SirGabenOfSteamia wrote: »

Nerf mag

Jhalin wrote: »

The NB class trees are honestly fine as they are. The standard PvE stam builds don't even have a spot for Path to fit into. The reason most morphs for NB class skills cost mag is because they aren't scaling abilities.

Blur is a timed buff
Shadow Cloak is a timed effect
Mark Target is a debuff
Aspect of Terror is a fear
Agony and Cripple are primarily CC

Right there are 6 abilities that would have no real benefit to a stam scaling. The only significant damage/healing abilities that are exclusive to mag are Strife, Path, and Summon Shade. The only one I can imagine a stam morph for would be the Shades, simply because they attack using swords and bows.

Fitting in an extra dot into the bar isn't an issue at all, stamblades have lots of room for another dot. Regardless of what it is, it should be comparable to claw to give us a bit of a boost. I think another 3k dot like path would be amazing for stamblades and just the tool we need to have a chance at the throne.

Shadzilla

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Stamblades are just fine in DPS...honestly the only way to address DK dps dominance os to add another stam DoT that all stam can use. DK bars are pretty full as is so the other classes would benefit from this change a lot more.

I am not saying they are far behind, but they are behind and they always have been. All stam toons have always been behind stam dks as far as parses go. This is just a request to give stamblades a boost, I do fear adding an ability that everyone can use dks would still make it work and keep their throne.

Thats the thing man DK bars are full right now. They currently have a single apace flex and it either holds vigor or molten. Other classes never hit DK numbers because more DoTs in todays meta always win. Adding another DoT (possibly not tied to a weapon such as undaunted) would help bring up the other classes, especially of the DoT added is not a psn one. Let me explain why this change would be amazing:
1. If a DK chooses to add it to their flex slot they will lose DoT uptime, since the current rotation already exceeds 10 sec.
2. If a DK slots this new DoT instead of anothet one of their DoTs they will only gain marginal damage if at all, since they would also give up one of their DoTs.
3. Other classes have flex spots and thus benefit much more from an additional available DoT.

Also another way to raise NB DPS is to fix impale. The additive scaling of damage dealt really affects its performance.

As an aside - the class parsing lowest in trials has always been stamplar. You dont think I want them to be on top as well? Adding a non-class non-weapon DoT would help them as well. They definitely need some love...at least PvE wise...

Ahhhh nos, everything you say is always pretty accurate and I can't help but agree with most of it. In all honesty they would just throw whatever dot it was into the flex spot. Molten or vigor for the flex would just be dropped and every stam dk would run it for the bigger parse, you know you would, as would I. I also do not think expanding their rotation by another skill would hurt the dot uptime at all. Would be as simple as weaving in 1 or 2 light attacks instead of heavys to make sure all the dots had 100% uptime. I do think it is a good idea, especially for other classes, I just do not think it would knock dks off their throne. Fixing impale would be awesome, I know big L's thread has had a lot of comments with the usual ignore from ZOS. Stamplar can gtfo! NB LOVE IS THE ONLY LOVE I WANNA SEE!!!

DDuke

The one thing stamblade needs is a stamina skill in Siphoning that it can use frequently - compared to magicka NB, stamblade gets very little (if any) ultimate from Transfer passive.

I'd probably go with making Power Extraction a skill worth using.


Problem is, stamblade DPS is already top notch so making any balance changes is tricky.

Possible solution: maybe Power Extraction could get some kind of strong synergy that'd make it worth using? Along with a DPS boost to make it worth slotting (but not necessarily a DPS increase over any of the skills stamblade currently uses).

hedna123b14_ESO

Shadzilla wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Stamblades are just fine in DPS...honestly the only way to address DK dps dominance os to add another stam DoT that all stam can use. DK bars are pretty full as is so the other classes would benefit from this change a lot more.

I am not saying they are far behind, but they are behind and they always have been. All stam toons have always been behind stam dks as far as parses go. This is just a request to give stamblades a boost, I do fear adding an ability that everyone can use dks would still make it work and keep their throne.

Thats the thing man DK bars are full right now. They currently have a single apace flex and it either holds vigor or molten. Other classes never hit DK numbers because more DoTs in todays meta always win. Adding another DoT (possibly not tied to a weapon such as undaunted) would help bring up the other classes, especially of the DoT added is not a psn one. Let me explain why this change would be amazing:
1. If a DK chooses to add it to their flex slot they will lose DoT uptime, since the current rotation already exceeds 10 sec.
2. If a DK slots this new DoT instead of anothet one of their DoTs they will only gain marginal damage if at all, since they would also give up one of their DoTs.
3. Other classes have flex spots and thus benefit much more from an additional available DoT.

Also another way to raise NB DPS is to fix impale. The additive scaling of damage dealt really affects its performance.

As an aside - the class parsing lowest in trials has always been stamplar. You dont think I want them to be on top as well? Adding a non-class non-weapon DoT would help them as well. They definitely need some love...at least PvE wise...

Ahhhh nos, everything you say is always pretty accurate and I can't help but agree with most of it. In all honesty they would just throw whatever dot it was into the flex spot. Molten or vigor for the flex would just be dropped and every stam dk would run it for the bigger parse, you know you would, as would I. I also do not think expanding their rotation by another skill would hurt the dot uptime at all. Would be as simple as weaving in 1 or 2 light attacks instead of heavys to make sure all the dots had 100% uptime. I do think it is a good idea, especially for other classes, I just do not think it would knock dks off their throne. Fixing impale would be awesome, I know big L's thread has had a lot of comments with the usual ignore from ZOS. Stamplar can gtfo! NB LOVE IS THE ONLY LOVE I WANNA SEE!!!

FYI on live stam dks DO lose dot uptime...there are 9 dots that they use and they typically use 3 heavies...thats way more than 10 seconds..

Maryal

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

Realistically, in this scenario mNB would then have just the lower damage of refreshing path as twisting would presumably become the stam morph. In this case mNB takes a big dps loss in precisely the skill that was buffed to bring it back to relevance. On the other hand, if ZOS bucked tradition and went with the heal morph for the stam that might actually be interesting as sNB is short on heals. As primarily an mNB, I would still be a little sad though as refreshing path is pretty important now in vMA since you can no longer afford to cast the number of sheilds that you used to be able to compensate for the lack of the refreshing morph supplementing the rather week heals from swallow soul. Perhaps swallow soul / funnel health could have a little of the mega series of nerfs it got reversed as that skill suffered (removal of double crit heals+ removal of one heal + cost increase + second, massive 30% cost increase) all in a short time. On the other hand, if the siphoning strikes heal was a bit better (probably would need to be an actual HOT of at least 1.5k/sec and not just a heal on light attack of 1k) the mNB would not need the refreshing option and siphoning might actually matter as it's resource return is laughable and certainly not worth slotting it for.

Anyhow, sNB is a load out that I do not find very compelling in terms of the variety of what it can do and because of it's terrible heals situation so I do agree with you that some depth could be added to it's kit. Maybe the refreshing morph becoming stam coupled with siphoning becoming a stronger heal for the mNB would be a good set of changes. As for sNB doing too much damage then... Well, I think we all know the OP spammable skill that could be nerfed a little to fix that issue.

I think this response was very well thought out and makes a lot of sense.

I am a Stamblade, have been 2+ years. Although I always have vigor slotted, there are many times I will also slot refreshing path ... I like having it as a magic based skill since it helps conserve on my stamina resources. I don't want all my useful (class-based) skills to cost stamina ... that would make stamina management even more difficult than it is now. I think both morphs should remain magic based, but if one 'had' to be changed, i suppose refreshing path would be the best option, if siphoning strikes were buffed as mentioned. I just hope that the stamina cost won't end up being exceedingly high ... kinda like how caltraps is now.

Balsagna

Newp.

Shadzilla

Maryal wrote: »

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

Realistically, in this scenario mNB would then have just the lower damage of refreshing path as twisting would presumably become the stam morph. In this case mNB takes a big dps loss in precisely the skill that was buffed to bring it back to relevance. On the other hand, if ZOS bucked tradition and went with the heal morph for the stam that might actually be interesting as sNB is short on heals. As primarily an mNB, I would still be a little sad though as refreshing path is pretty important now in vMA since you can no longer afford to cast the number of sheilds that you used to be able to compensate for the lack of the refreshing morph supplementing the rather week heals from swallow soul. Perhaps swallow soul / funnel health could have a little of the mega series of nerfs it got reversed as that skill suffered (removal of double crit heals+ removal of one heal + cost increase + second, massive 30% cost increase) all in a short time. On the other hand, if the siphoning strikes heal was a bit better (probably would need to be an actual HOT of at least 1.5k/sec and not just a heal on light attack of 1k) the mNB would not need the refreshing option and siphoning might actually matter as it's resource return is laughable and certainly not worth slotting it for.

Anyhow, sNB is a load out that I do not find very compelling in terms of the variety of what it can do and because of it's terrible heals situation so I do agree with you that some depth could be added to it's kit. Maybe the refreshing morph becoming stam coupled with siphoning becoming a stronger heal for the mNB would be a good set of changes. As for sNB doing too much damage then... Well, I think we all know the OP spammable skill that could be nerfed a little to fix that issue.

I think this response was very well thought out and makes a lot of sense.

I am a Stamblade, have been 2+ years. Although I always have vigor slotted, there are many times I will also slot refreshing path ... I like having it as a magic based skill since it helps conserve on my stamina resources. I don't want all my useful (class-based) skills to cost stamina ... that would make stamina management even more difficult than it is now. I think both morphs should remain magic based, but if one 'had' to be changed, i suppose refreshing path would be the best option, if siphoning strikes were buffed as mentioned. I just hope that the stamina cost won't end up being exceedingly high ... kinda like how caltraps is now.

In all honesty, I just want another physical damage dot to put in our kit. I would rather keep both abilities magicka, but have one do physical damage.

Shadzilla

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Stamblades are just fine in DPS...honestly the only way to address DK dps dominance os to add another stam DoT that all stam can use. DK bars are pretty full as is so the other classes would benefit from this change a lot more.

I am not saying they are far behind, but they are behind and they always have been. All stam toons have always been behind stam dks as far as parses go. This is just a request to give stamblades a boost, I do fear adding an ability that everyone can use dks would still make it work and keep their throne.

Thats the thing man DK bars are full right now. They currently have a single apace flex and it either holds vigor or molten. Other classes never hit DK numbers because more DoTs in todays meta always win. Adding another DoT (possibly not tied to a weapon such as undaunted) would help bring up the other classes, especially of the DoT added is not a psn one. Let me explain why this change would be amazing:
1. If a DK chooses to add it to their flex slot they will lose DoT uptime, since the current rotation already exceeds 10 sec.
2. If a DK slots this new DoT instead of anothet one of their DoTs they will only gain marginal damage if at all, since they would also give up one of their DoTs.
3. Other classes have flex spots and thus benefit much more from an additional available DoT.

Also another way to raise NB DPS is to fix impale. The additive scaling of damage dealt really affects its performance.

As an aside - the class parsing lowest in trials has always been stamplar. You dont think I want them to be on top as well? Adding a non-class non-weapon DoT would help them as well. They definitely need some love...at least PvE wise...

Ahhhh nos, everything you say is always pretty accurate and I can't help but agree with most of it. In all honesty they would just throw whatever dot it was into the flex spot. Molten or vigor for the flex would just be dropped and every stam dk would run it for the bigger parse, you know you would, as would I. I also do not think expanding their rotation by another skill would hurt the dot uptime at all. Would be as simple as weaving in 1 or 2 light attacks instead of heavys to make sure all the dots had 100% uptime. I do think it is a good idea, especially for other classes, I just do not think it would knock dks off their throne. Fixing impale would be awesome, I know big L's thread has had a lot of comments with the usual ignore from ZOS. Stamplar can gtfo! NB LOVE IS THE ONLY LOVE I WANNA SEE!!!

FYI on live stam dks DO lose dot uptime...there are 9 dots that they use and they typically use 3 heavies...thats way more than 10 seconds..

On my stam dk the rotation is like 10-11 seconds with 3 heavys on dw bar. I know what you are saying, I just think that even losing another second or two but gaining a whole other dot to drop down and allow to tick for however long in the rotation will heavily out dps the option of not using it.

hedna123b14_ESO

Shadzilla wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Stamblades are just fine in DPS...honestly the only way to address DK dps dominance os to add another stam DoT that all stam can use. DK bars are pretty full as is so the other classes would benefit from this change a lot more.

I am not saying they are far behind, but they are behind and they always have been. All stam toons have always been behind stam dks as far as parses go. This is just a request to give stamblades a boost, I do fear adding an ability that everyone can use dks would still make it work and keep their throne.

Thats the thing man DK bars are full right now. They currently have a single apace flex and it either holds vigor or molten. Other classes never hit DK numbers because more DoTs in todays meta always win. Adding another DoT (possibly not tied to a weapon such as undaunted) would help bring up the other classes, especially of the DoT added is not a psn one. Let me explain why this change would be amazing:
1. If a DK chooses to add it to their flex slot they will lose DoT uptime, since the current rotation already exceeds 10 sec.
2. If a DK slots this new DoT instead of anothet one of their DoTs they will only gain marginal damage if at all, since they would also give up one of their DoTs.
3. Other classes have flex spots and thus benefit much more from an additional available DoT.

Also another way to raise NB DPS is to fix impale. The additive scaling of damage dealt really affects its performance.

As an aside - the class parsing lowest in trials has always been stamplar. You dont think I want them to be on top as well? Adding a non-class non-weapon DoT would help them as well. They definitely need some love...at least PvE wise...

Ahhhh nos, everything you say is always pretty accurate and I can't help but agree with most of it. In all honesty they would just throw whatever dot it was into the flex spot. Molten or vigor for the flex would just be dropped and every stam dk would run it for the bigger parse, you know you would, as would I. I also do not think expanding their rotation by another skill would hurt the dot uptime at all. Would be as simple as weaving in 1 or 2 light attacks instead of heavys to make sure all the dots had 100% uptime. I do think it is a good idea, especially for other classes, I just do not think it would knock dks off their throne. Fixing impale would be awesome, I know big L's thread has had a lot of comments with the usual ignore from ZOS. Stamplar can gtfo! NB LOVE IS THE ONLY LOVE I WANNA SEE!!!

FYI on live stam dks DO lose dot uptime...there are 9 dots that they use and they typically use 3 heavies...thats way more than 10 seconds..

On my stam dk the rotation is like 10-11 seconds with 3 heavys on dw bar. I know what you are saying, I just think that even losing another second or two but gaining a whole other dot to drop down and allow to tick for however long in the rotation will heavily out dps the option of not using it.

Your rotation is longer than that

crobarXIII

I never understood why some choose to request changes to good skills that are used by a lot of people. How about you request changes to skills that are rarely used or aren't role specific. I would really like it if people stop trying to make my sustain harder by requesting stam morphs to my nb tanks abilities mirage, refreshing path & dark shades. Why not go after something like agony? Request for agony to become a good dot with both a magicka & stamina morphs. My stamblade already has endless hail, caltrops & deadly cloak for aoe dot's he doesn't need a stamina morph of path.

Gargath

So far I was thinking that mag NB is more like aoe damage dealer, and stam NB is one-shot stealth warrior. Thus I see no need for Path of Darkness morph to be stamina. Stamblade is already powerful killer when it comes for stealth attacks, but should not be effective in aoe damage based on stamina, seems a bit too OP. But I'm open for changes, do it and we'll test it .

KingJ

They won't do this for the same reason they won't give Stamdk a stam whip,Both morph are useful in its respective version.For example The healing morph is best for Pvp while the extra damage is best for PVE.If they remove one and make it stam it hurts a version of path for magblade when they are weak in both aspects.

NyassaV

As interesting as it might be... No

Olupajmibanan

No class has so many stam morphs available as NB. And you want even more? Greed.

Destruent

Shadzilla wrote: »

[...] I think we are all in the same agreement that stamina should have clearly superior single target dps, as well as magicka with clearly superior aoe. I am glad that we are in another patch where stam toons are plausible, and enjoy seeing groups having a few of them in raids again. [...]

You have to define "clearly superior"...atm it's like: stam-melee >>>>Mag-ranged >mag-melee > warden with a difference of ~20k ST-DPS from top to bottom. I guess this fits clearly superior, but the difference is too big imo...

Should be more like: stam-melee > mag-melee >~ stam-ranged> mag-ranged with a total difference of ~10k DPS at max for ST, reverting mag and stam-dps-numbers for AoE.

Pls correct me if i'm wrong with my numbers/orders, but i guess realitiy is not that far away at all.

Vaoh

Terrible idea. No. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about, and the only people in agreement with you are just as ignorant.

Even worse is this garbage you mention about the Stam/Mag morph disparity as a way to justify it.

If your DPS sucks as a Stamblade, it is 110% on you. The class has all of the tools necessary to not only put out incredible DPS, but also provide good group support at the same time.

starkerealm

Destruent wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

[...] I think we are all in the same agreement that stamina should have clearly superior single target dps, as well as magicka with clearly superior aoe. I am glad that we are in another patch where stam toons are plausible, and enjoy seeing groups having a few of them in raids again. [...]

You have to define "clearly superior"...atm it's like: stam-melee >>>>Mag-ranged >mag-ranged > warden with a difference of ~20k ST-DPS from top to bottom. I guess this fits clearly superior, but the difference is too big imo...

Should be more like: stam-melee > mag-melee >~ stam-ranged> mag-ranged with a total difference of ~10k DPS at max for ST, reverting mag and stam-dps-numbers for AoE.

Pls correct me if i'm wrong with my numbers/orders, but i guess realitiy is not that far away at all.

Well, I especially like the part where magicka ranged builds outperform magicka ranged builds.