Do I need to DPS as a Tank?

bhagwad

I've been building a DK tank with 50k health, 30k resistances, all tank skills like igneous, bone shield, taunt, debuff etc. I can soak up quite a bit of damage.

However, my only DPS comes from heavy attacks to regenerate my stamina. I was wondering if there was a chance I could contribute to DPS as well? Or should I just stick to pure tanking?

SquareSausage

Depends on what situation you mostly play.

For trials, no your dps will be neglible as your role is to control the boss/adds and buff/debuff group/boss.

In dungeon environments, sure why not, S&B front bar then back bar dw/2h. Or any combo that works for you.

Liofa

How you contribute to DPS is buffing your DDs . You can do all the stuff you want to do DPS yourself but group DPS won't be close to a proper tank boosting his DDs' damage . This applies to 4-man dungeons and trials both . This can be done in many ways .

- Crusher enchant (especially with infused weapon)
- Aggressive Horn (since skills scale with Max stats , you will be boosting their base damage AND their critical damage with Major Force)
- Using the proper taunt skills (Pierce Armor can apply the best debuffs in this game with 1 button)
- Positioning (moving boss all around the place makes your dds recast their ground AOE skills over and over again)
- Choosing proper DPS boosting sets (Alkosh , Torug's Pact , Tava's Favor , Akaviri Dragonguard etc.)

There are other ways too but these are the most important ones . As you improve in tanking , I am sure you will figure out the rest yourself

Sanguis_Tiberius

^everything what aboves said.
Focus on buffing/debuffing in most situations. The only time anyone should see any DPS from a tank is on an off tank. Otherwise focus on tanking because without you, your group is probably toast.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Kinda already been said, but even in small group stuff, your group DPS will be higher if you focus on buffing your group rather than your own damage. I have been in many groups where the tank gets really excited about pulling 20k or something like that. Well, that's pretty meaningless if your 2 40k plus damage dealers are running for their lives and dont have the buffs/debuffs needed to play effectively. A good tank actually contributes quite a lot to good DPS.

paulsimonps

As said, focus all into support and support that can increase damage rather than doing damage yourself. Unless you are a DPS that can tank then your DPS is not gonna be worth it. The DPS set on the back bar thing is not worth it. Even seen it done on Trial bosses and it blows my mind why people think that it would matter, debuffing the bosses gives soo much more, or buffing your team.

SquareSausage

I disagree with above tbh.

Ill stress again, imo depends on situation you are in.

if you are doing random pug dungeons you are not getting 2 x 40kDPS in your group. Most likely 2 x level 10 wardens in RoM. You can still ahve the main debuffs on boss by only suing s&b front bar, heroic slassh, pierce etc. Obvz if you 50k health your stam not gonna be much more than max 25k so your dps wont be 'amazing'.

Been in this situation many times, its easy to switch out gear/skills before a boss, so why not. My tank is just a trail tank only but he has dualwield/2h skills and passives unlocked if I ever have to face a random pug or do some questing.

if you run with an organised group then whatever works for you.

Trail tank should be full tank s&b both bars.

MehrunesFlagon

no

Nestor

My Tank might peak at 2K to 4K DPS. Maybe. If I am doing more than that, then I am not being a proper tank.

My group is doing more DPS because I keep them buffed and the boss debuffed. I also help keep my group alive by Shielding them. After all that, if the DPS can't wear the mobs and bosses down, then I suggest how to handle things, which usually works. If not, I politely suggest the group may need to rethink what they are doing then take a bow and leave.

QuebraRegra

Liofa wrote: »

How you contribute to DPS is buffing your DDs . You can do all the stuff you want to do DPS yourself but group DPS won't be close to a proper tank boosting his DDs' damage . This applies to 4-man dungeons and trials both . This can be done in many ways .

- Crusher enchant (especially with infused weapon)
- Aggressive Horn (since skills scale with Max stats , you will be boosting their base damage AND their critical damage with Major Force)
- Using the proper taunt skills (Pierce Armor can apply the best debuffs in this game with 1 button)
- Positioning (moving boss all around the place makes your dds recast their ground AOE skills over and over again)
- Choosing proper DPS boosting sets (Alkosh , Torug's Pact , Tava's Favor , Akaviri Dragonguard etc.)

There are other ways too but these are the most important ones . As you improve in tanking , I am sure you will figure out the rest yourself

Just from a "polite protocol" perspective, I started using Agg WARHORN on my healer as I don't see a lot of buffing going on. I'm also debuffing with MARK and ElEMENT DRAIN. I can sustain this pretty well along with all the heals needed, but am I outside my role?

paulsimonps

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

How you contribute to DPS is buffing your DDs . You can do all the stuff you want to do DPS yourself but group DPS won't be close to a proper tank boosting his DDs' damage . This applies to 4-man dungeons and trials both . This can be done in many ways .

- Crusher enchant (especially with infused weapon)
- Aggressive Horn (since skills scale with Max stats , you will be boosting their base damage AND their critical damage with Major Force)
- Using the proper taunt skills (Pierce Armor can apply the best debuffs in this game with 1 button)
- Positioning (moving boss all around the place makes your dds recast their ground AOE skills over and over again)
- Choosing proper DPS boosting sets (Alkosh , Torug's Pact , Tava's Favor , Akaviri Dragonguard etc.)

There are other ways too but these are the most important ones . As you improve in tanking , I am sure you will figure out the rest yourself

Just from a "polite protocol" perspective, I started using Agg WARHORN on my healer as I don't see a lot of buffing going on. I'm also debuffing with MARK and ElEMENT DRAIN. I can sustain this pretty well along with all the heals needed, but am I outside my role?

Mark target is useless if you have a proper Tank around, their pierce armor taunt ability gives the same debuffs.

Liofa

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

How you contribute to DPS is buffing your DDs . You can do all the stuff you want to do DPS yourself but group DPS won't be close to a proper tank boosting his DDs' damage . This applies to 4-man dungeons and trials both . This can be done in many ways .

- Crusher enchant (especially with infused weapon)
- Aggressive Horn (since skills scale with Max stats , you will be boosting their base damage AND their critical damage with Major Force)
- Using the proper taunt skills (Pierce Armor can apply the best debuffs in this game with 1 button)
- Positioning (moving boss all around the place makes your dds recast their ground AOE skills over and over again)
- Choosing proper DPS boosting sets (Alkosh , Torug's Pact , Tava's Favor , Akaviri Dragonguard etc.)

There are other ways too but these are the most important ones . As you improve in tanking , I am sure you will figure out the rest yourself

Just from a "polite protocol" perspective, I started using Agg WARHORN on my healer as I don't see a lot of buffing going on. I'm also debuffing with MARK and ElEMENT DRAIN. I can sustain this pretty well along with all the heals needed, but am I outside my role?

I said ''use horn'' in my comment because it is what a tank should be doing . That doesn't mean a healer can't do it . Actually , there was a time where Stamina Sorcerers in trials were using Horn because they didn't have a proper Damage ultimate and using another Horn was more beneficial to group . My point is , Horn can be used by anyone .

About Mark , completely useless skill . If you read my previous comment , Pierce Armor applies those debuffs anyways . You are basically wasting a skill slot on your bar . If I was a Nightblade healer , I would keep an Assasination skill on my bar for the Hemorrhage passive to increase my critical heals but it probably would be Mirage , not Mark . I recommend you do that . You would get some defenses at least .

Anyways , this is a tanking thread , not gonna bother with more Nightblade healer advices ^^

Kanar

Depends. If the DDs are good then buffs/debuffs will contribute more. However for PUGs I think its safer to assume DDs might be bad, so doing DPS will contribute more than support (buffing low damage still results in low damage).

Oreyn_Bearclaw

SquareSausage wrote: »

I disagree with above tbh.

Ill stress again, imo depends on situation you are in.

if you are doing random pug dungeons you are not getting 2 x 40kDPS in your group. Most likely 2 x level 10 wardens in RoM. You can still ahve the main debuffs on boss by only suing s&b front bar, heroic slassh, pierce etc. Obvz if you 50k health your stam not gonna be much more than max 25k so your dps wont be 'amazing'.

Been in this situation many times, its easy to switch out gear/skills before a boss, so why not. My tank is just a trail tank only but he has dualwield/2h skills and passives unlocked if I ever have to face a random pug or do some questing.

if you run with an organised group then whatever works for you.

Trail tank should be full tank s&b both bars.

I get your point, but I dont spend a lot of time theorycrafting for horrendous pug groups. Haha. Anytime I go into a complete pug group, I am prepared to DPS, heal myself, and fend off the boss if necessary.

SquareSausage

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I get your point, but I dont spend a lot of time theorycrafting for horrendous pug groups. Haha. Anytime I go into a complete pug group, I am prepared to DPS, heal myself, and fend off the boss if necessary.

thats all im suggesting he does, bring additional sets if need be, be prepared to swap out skills, just have the skills unlocked and morphed and ready to go.

just spec for full tank, as they usually have spare cp to plow into blue tree which can go into mighty and piercing etc, and away you go into battle when its necesary to pew pew.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

SquareSausage wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I get your point, but I dont spend a lot of time theorycrafting for horrendous pug groups. Haha. Anytime I go into a complete pug group, I am prepared to DPS, heal myself, and fend off the boss if necessary.

thats all im suggesting he does, bring additional sets if need be, be prepared to swap out skills, just have the skills unlocked and morphed and ready to go.

just spec for full tank, as they usually have spare cp to plow into blue tree which can go into mighty and piercing etc, and away you go into battle when its necesary to pew pew.

Totally reasonable. I remember leveling undaunted on my tank via groupfinder. I damn sure made he could kill something when the group wiped. Haha.

That said, a true tank should prioritize group buffs over personal damage. There are also fights where a tank is frankly worthless, so all good tanks should carry a DPS set IMO.

Zvorgin

SquareSausage wrote: »

Depends on what situation you mostly play.

For trials, no your dps will be neglible as your role is to control the boss/adds and buff/debuff group/boss.

In dungeon environments, sure why not, S&B front bar then back bar dw/2h. Or any combo that works for you.

Please don't sign up for a vet dungeon with DW or 2h on the back bar as a tank. Your dps in group should deal the damage and this is unnecessary.

Ulo

It's good to dps as a heal or tank, but not at the expense of your main job so only do it if you can do it without too much compromise

Savos_Saren

Honestly, if I'm running a PUG vet dungeon and I don't think the DDs are pulling much DPS- I'll just equip Akaviri Dragonguard (faster warhorns for group buffs) and add Knight's Errant (adds DPS with self heals). For the Monster Set- I constantly flop between Tremorscale (for CC and extra DPS) or Bloodspawn (for faster warhorns).

I actually like using Knight's Errant as a secondary armor set because it benefits a tank to use Pierce Armor and Heroic Slash.

...very seldom will you actually see 40k DPS running in PUG groups- so, prepare to pull more than just your weight.

Flaminir

Do you need to DPS as a tank? Depends on the content, the group, and whether you want to!

As others have said, in the trickier end game stuff like trials you definitly shouldn't be, you'd be dropping group dps by focussing on yourself, but 4 man content is a bit different in my opinion as its generally easier so gives you some flexibility.

With 4 person content I think you have a choice...

You can go full support (Like trials) but tbh a lot of the dungeons and bosses there is just no need for this, its overkill. And if your group isn't exactly optimised as the PUGs that a couple of people above mentioned then they may not be gaining as much benefit from your perfect support tank setup.

I've got two tanks (You could just have two setups on one i guess... I just prefer having two charachters)...

One who's a full trials tank, several setups depending on the trial, Plague, Greenpact, Ebon, Alkosh etc. Does no DPS but is very good support.

I also have a tank for 4 person content that can still support via an infused crusher enchant, pierce armour taunt, Warhorn, Alkosh etc.... and that tank can also pull around 20k dps.

I prefer the DPS/Tank hybrid for giggles... it still supports the group, but is very fun & interactive to play... gives a challenge again to keep the support up, the tanking positioning etc, as well as keeping up some DPS.

raj72616a

trIal no, dungeon with ppl you know no

pug dungeon yes

better yet, bring along a mediun armor set in your inventory, switch to that set when the pug dps is truly terrible.
i normally use resiilient yokeda and leeching plate in dungeon. when the group is very good, i take out leeching plate and equip alkosh set. when the group is bad, i switch to VO+hunding rage+kra’gh and perform only minimal tank duty.

SquareSausage

Zvorgin wrote: »

SquareSausage wrote: »

Depends on what situation you mostly play.

For trials, no your dps will be neglible as your role is to control the boss/adds and buff/debuff group/boss.

In dungeon environments, sure why not, S&B front bar then back bar dw/2h. Or any combo that works for you.

Please don't sign up for a vet dungeon with DW or 2h on the back bar as a tank. Your dps in group should deal the damage and this is unnecessary.

obv not ran many pugs, when your 2 dd are cp 10 mag sorcs running with 2h sword and a cp20 archer legolas build.

Trashkan

Short answer. NO!!! If your group is complaining they should probably work on there own dps first.

Gan Xing

I've tanked quite a lot of vet dungeons on my hybrids who are not set up for tanking. I know the mechanics of each boss, and keep aggro on myself. I also have a stamplar that is s/b and bow, and I use the bow (hail) to increase dps by a little bit. could i have better equipment for my characters when I tank? yea... could i have better rotations? yea. but atm, it works

cbaudersub17_ESO

From a 4-person dungeon perspective:

You will more success with PUG groups if you focus on tanking type things, including buffing your team. Sprinkle in DPS where you can.

Have more of a DPS load-out ready as a 'just in case' (could be an ability here or there or swapping of an armor set/weapon). The reason I suggest this is that not all bosses in dungeons really benefit greatly with a pure tank or a pure tank might make common PUG strategy harder. For example, the common strategy for the Planar Inhibitor boss (vet) is not very tank friendly; although a rather easy 'tank friendly' strategy, ironically involving your death, exists.