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Single target skills with aoe components break cloak in PVP
Dorrino
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If a nightblade tries to cloak and get hit by a set of single target skills at the same time the cloak breaks immediately even if said skills don't do damage on application.
Non-comprehensive list of skills of this type includes:
1. Daedric Curse and its morphs (Haunting Curse, Daedric Prey). No damage on application.
2. Mage's Fury and its morphs (Mage's Wrath, Endless Fury). No aoe damage on application.
3. Purifying Light morph of Backlash. No aoe damage on application.
4. Heavy attack of lightning staff. Both application and each tick breaks cloak.
It feels like if a skill has an 'aoe' component then the game considers it to be 'aoe' for the purpose of breaking cloak.
This is quite frustrating for nightblades, probably unintentional and, thus, needs to be fixed.
Thank you.
Non-comprehensive list of skills of this type includes:
1. Daedric Curse and its morphs (Haunting Curse, Daedric Prey). No damage on application.
2. Mage's Fury and its morphs (Mage's Wrath, Endless Fury). No aoe damage on application.
3. Purifying Light morph of Backlash. No aoe damage on application.
4. Heavy attack of lightning staff. Both application and each tick breaks cloak.
It feels like if a skill has an 'aoe' component then the game considers it to be 'aoe' for the purpose of breaking cloak.
This is quite frustrating for nightblades, probably unintentional and, thus, needs to be fixed.
Thank you.
1
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BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Very good catch, some of these things were changed like, reflective light or silver shards but these things still wreck cloak and reduce it's overall viability0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The whole Heavy Lightning Attack is an AoE if you have the passive. So that's why it breaks cloak.
Crit Rush also breaks cloak by the way.@ Izaki #PCEU
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nilldax✭✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »The whole Heavy Lightning Attack is an AoE if you have the passive. So that's why it breaks cloak.
Crit Rush also breaks cloak by the way.
Breaking by Crit Rush is fully dependable on ping/ between attacker&victim, overall server lag/performance and most important - distance. And yes, this is pretty much possible on (nearly) maximal range of Crit Rush.Very good catch, some of these things were changed like, reflective light or silver shards but these things still wreck cloak and reduce it's overall viability
In nonrmal scenatio, Silver Shards to break invisiblity needs to hit ANY visible target, then AoE compenent (up to 5 targets) hits any, cloacked, stealthed targets, rarely ignoring LoS in whole (ie through walls)
As for Mages Fury - its due to fact of being "delayed-in-animaton" skill, Same goes sometimes for DK whip.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Shadow Image also breaks cloak - it's actually able to "see" invisible targets and keeps shooting at them.
Also, some DK DoT ticks break cloak, my guess is Volatile Armor (as it has certainly done so in the past).
To be honest, I've lost all faith the bugs with this skill will ever be eradicated - every time something with cloak gets fixed, another thing breaks... and then after a while the old bugs that were fixed return to haunt us.Edited by DDuke on July 23, 2017 3:17PM2 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Shadow Image also breaks cloak - it's actually able to "see" invisible targets and keeps shooting at them.
Also, some DK DoT ticks break cloak, my guess is Volatile Armor (as it has certainly done so in the past).
To be honest, I've lost all faith the bugs with this skill will ever be eradicated - every time something with cloak gets fixed, another thing breaks... and then after a while the old bugs that were fixed return to haunt us.
Summon Image specifically will take you out of cloak only if you cloaked right after it has shot you. I've tested this. It seems to be a timing thing.
Volatile Armour is kinda weird. It reflects melee damage before you even deal the melee damage. For example you try to stun someone from stealth with surprise attack and it doesn't work.PS4 NA DC0 -
Jaxaxo✭✭✭✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »Shadow Image also breaks cloak - it's actually able to "see" invisible targets and keeps shooting at them.
Also, some DK DoT ticks break cloak, my guess is Volatile Armor (as it has certainly done so in the past).
To be honest, I've lost all faith the bugs with this skill will ever be eradicated - every time something with cloak gets fixed, another thing breaks... and then after a while the old bugs that were fixed return to haunt us.
Summon Image specifically will take you out of cloak only if you cloaked right after it has shot you. I've tested this. It seems to be a timing thing.
Volatile Armour is kinda weird. It reflects melee damage before you even deal the melee damage. For example you try to stun someone from stealth with surprise attack and it doesn't work.
About shade, only his first attack break cloak at least in open world/BG environment. But in duels shade ignores cloak and every attack break it.Forum War - pro AC side
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DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »Shadow Image also breaks cloak - it's actually able to "see" invisible targets and keeps shooting at them.
Also, some DK DoT ticks break cloak, my guess is Volatile Armor (as it has certainly done so in the past).
To be honest, I've lost all faith the bugs with this skill will ever be eradicated - every time something with cloak gets fixed, another thing breaks... and then after a while the old bugs that were fixed return to haunt us.
Summon Image specifically will take you out of cloak only if you cloaked right after it has shot you. I've tested this. It seems to be a timing thing.
Volatile Armour is kinda weird. It reflects melee damage before you even deal the melee damage. For example you try to stun someone from stealth with surprise attack and it doesn't work.
About shade, only his first attack break cloak at least in open world/BG environment. But in duels shade ignores cloak and every attack break it.
Yeah, it might be duel specific - that's where I've tested it.0 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »The whole Heavy Lightning Attack is an AoE if you have the passive. So that's why it breaks cloak.
Crit Rush also breaks cloak by the way.
It's a single target skill with aoe component.
I'd argue that cloak should break if you're not the main target of this ability and should not break if you are.
Btw, Inevitable Detonation breaks cloak on application as well.Edited by Dorrino on July 23, 2017 9:39PM0 -
Jaxaxo✭✭✭✭Zos dislikes nb
No, it's not. Nb is really strong atm (and not cuz of procsets) and cloak is working much better.Forum War - pro AC side
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Blobsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭Entropy, image and Bow ult are the big issues. I never thought about curse fury etc but i guess it is a valid point.
Entropy: Any enemy cast OR your own casts first heal return will break cloak
Image: Cloaking during the images Bow draw will break cloak
Bow ult: Xv1 killer for my battlemage build FeelsBadManYt Channell: Blobsky
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WhiteMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭As far as I'm concerned, both backlash and curse should be breaking cloak when they hit, as they are. Cloak can't counter everything, so don't expect it to.The generally amicable yet sporadically salty magplar that may or may not have 1vXed you in Sotha Sil. Who knows?0 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭As far as I'm concerned, both backlash and curse should be breaking cloak when they hit, as they are. Cloak can't counter everything, so don't expect it to.
@WhiteMage
What exactly is the reasoning behind spammable skills that don't even do damage on application to break cloak?
The keyword is single target spammable though.Edited by Dorrino on July 27, 2017 3:46AM1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »Sheer Venom set breaks cloak!
Hmm... I haven't experienced this as a Sheer Venom user (on live server, haven't tested PTS), and the people I apply it on seem to be cloaking fine.
Some further details: I run 5x on main bar only & the ability that procs it comes from off bar (PI DoT tick), maybe that has something to do with it?
It does prevent you from sneaking though.Edited by DDuke on July 27, 2017 5:26AM0 -
WhiteMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Dorrino
If stealth was a CD skill for nightblades, it wouldn't make any sense. Such a concept (nearly) doesn't exist in ESO, however. Cloak is spammable, as are its counters. It's not the best system; interrupts shouldn't be spammable, and I'd say that, because of how they work, someone thought to add them because other games did, not because it meshed well with combat in this one. But that's probably not what you're getting at.
I like that backlash and curse pull someone out of cloak because these attacks have delays on them. To be clear, I'm talking about how they pull things out of stealth after their delay counts down, not on cast. If they nullify cloak when the casts coincide, I believe that is a problem, but I don't think that is what is happening. I, as a Templar (please forgive my Templar bias), use backlash to pull cloaking NBs out of invisibility. I think this is perfectly fair because, as cloak has a 3s duration and backlash has a 6s countdown, this will only pull a NB out of stealth if they poorly time it while acting offensively (their fault) or if they are spamming cloak to escape me. I, as a Templar, cannot escape a nightblade if they will not allow me to. I don't believe any competent nightblade should be able to escape me whether I like it or not, especially given the nightblade is almost always the one who initiated with a failed stealth gank (though at a significant cost to my resources for recovery).
Using cloak, a nightblade can already control the fight by using cloak as a weapon, avoiding the Templar's rather constrained attack patterns, then repositioning and opening again with a stun and more burst, only to repeat after the Templar spends more valuable resources on recovery and then attempts to turn the tables. I learned really quickly not to try to press my advantage on an offensively-cloaking NB, because I don't have the advantage anymore--not since morrowind. The Templar needs to stop, turtle up, and regen what little resources he can.
So this delayed attack will only help reveal a cloak-spamming nightblade, periodically at that, and while the NB will undoubtedly cloak again immediately, the chance to cast it again or at the bare minimum get a ping on their location is invaluable.The generally amicable yet sporadically salty magplar that may or may not have 1vXed you in Sotha Sil. Who knows?2 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭@WhiteMageIf they nullify cloak when the casts coincide, I believe that is a problem, but I don't think that is what is happening.
This is exactly what is happening and that's the point of this post:)
It's a totally separate issue that they take nighblades out of cloak on their expiration. You can argue it's fine.
The thing is they break cloak on their cast, if you happen to cloak at the same time.Edited by Dorrino on July 27, 2017 6:04PM1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Dorrino arguing on behalf of stealth? I think the sky is falling...
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QuebraRegra✭✭✭✭✭
✭VICECANNON still breaks cloak... TESTED.
Cloak has been broken forever, and despite the number of times ZOS has said their going to fix it, it's still broken.
Can we get a patch for ZOS management?1 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭QuebraRegra wrote: »VICECANNON still breaks cloak... TESTED.
Cloak has been broken forever, and despite the number of times ZOS has said their going to fix it, it's still broken.
Can we get a patch for ZOS management?
It's the heal portion of it that breaks cloak.
Same thing with anything that procs a heal (entropy and it's morphs, burning embers, etc)
Really the big issue is when using cloak there is no notification that you aren't cloaked. The eye displays as closed.
As for the issues with curse... well, being that a fair portion of sorcs just cast it on you when you are invisible (how's that exactly?) and reveal you and then get two free cloak breaks out of it.... Same crap with the spamming of templar power of light and backlash... it shouldn't break cloak on cast (it shouldn't hit cloaked targets at all, actually and neither should curse).1