100% Uptime Werewolves?

Ch4mpTW

I just fought 2 different werewolves in a duel while waiting for my Cyrodiil queue, who were able to keep-up their transformation for 15mins. or longer. Literally they never dropped transformation upon activating it, yet still reaped the benefits of course from TrollKing and other bs. WTF type of cheesy build is that? I have video of it as well, which I'll be uploading soon.

ParaNostram

Well when a werewolf takes damage, their time is refreshed for 3 seconds. Their gap closer can add time back too, basically if a werewolf is in combat it won't detransform more likely than not. It isn't cheesy, it's built into the transformation.

dodgehopper_ESO

If you are in a team of 4 or more werewolves you can remain a monster indefinitely. I would have thought dueling would shut that off as you are isolated in that scenario.

Mysterieus

They refresh 3 seconds with A delay of 6 second refresh upon it. So you lose 3 seconds without feeding every 6 second. If you can't feed. And you can't spam the gap closer, it might be A gear set.

idk

ParaNostram wrote: »

Well when a werewolf takes damage, their time is refreshed for 3 seconds. Their gap closer can add time back too, basically if a werewolf is in combat it won't detransform more likely than not. It isn't cheesy, it's built into the transformation.

Only way WW has viability.

The solution is to stop damaging the WW while in a dual. That'll teach them. Jk

ParaNostram

Valarian_Eldergleam wrote: »

They refresh 3 seconds with A delay of 6 second refresh upon it. So you lose 3 seconds without feeding every 6 second. If you can't feed. And you can't spam the gap closer, it might be A gear set.

It refreshes every 3 seconds the passive is at rank 2. So every 3 seconds you can take damage and get back 3 seconds.

NBrookus

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

Well when a werewolf takes damage, their time is refreshed for 3 seconds. Their gap closer can add time back too, basically if a werewolf is in combat it won't detransform more likely than not. It isn't cheesy, it's built into the transformation.

Only way WW has viability.

The solution is to stop damaging the WW while in a dual. That'll teach them. Jk

Kiting a WW around until they lose their transformation does work, but you pretty much need to be able to LOS them to prevent gap closing. It's not terribly useful in a duel situation where LOS is generally considered cheesy.

geonsocal

was in a battlegrounds "deathmatch" that actually went the full 15 minutes...one of the groups we were fighting against had 3 werewolf tanks (not sure what their 4th player was)...

they were nearly impossible to kill...and, yeah - sure seemed like they never left werewolf form the whole 15 minutes...

Ch4mpTW

geonsocal wrote: »

was in a battlegrounds "deathmatch" that actually went the full 15 minutes...one of the groups we were fighting against had 3 werewolf tanks (not sure what their 4th player was)...

they were nearly impossible to kill...and, yeah - sure seemed like they never left werewolf form the whole 15 minutes...

And thus we arrive at cheese builds once again. We arrive to a statement that I make oh so often here on these forums, which is that PvP is all about cheese and exploiting. If you're not using something cheesy, and or abusing something that is "broken" at its very core? You're doing it wrong.

Mind you, this isn't to say that WW is overpowered. No. It's not. Not even close. But what IS overpowered, are cheesey builds incorporating WW. And take advantage of the unbalanced in WW. Fighting a WW with over 30k health, does anywhere between 4k to 5k damage (without bleeds), and is also reaping the benefits of TrollKing alongside vitality pots is beyond obnoxious. And should not be in existence. I'm all for build diversity, and don't believe in "meta-slaving". I never have, and never will. But some of this stuff is beyond ridiculous, and those in charge of balance should be ashamed of themselves and embarrassed that these types of builds can exist.

Koolio

A werewolf with a successful build and now people can't stand it lmao.

Cadbury

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

was in a battlegrounds "deathmatch" that actually went the full 15 minutes...one of the groups we were fighting against had 3 werewolf tanks (not sure what their 4th player was)...

they were nearly impossible to kill...and, yeah - sure seemed like they never left werewolf form the whole 15 minutes...

And thus we arrive at cheese builds once again. We arrive to a statement that I make oh so often here on these forums, which is that PvP is all about cheese and exploiting. If you're not using something cheesy, and or abusing something that is "broken" at its very core? You're doing it wrong.

Mind you, this isn't to say that WW is overpowered. No. It's not. Not even close. But what IS overpowered, are cheesey builds incorporating WW. And take advantage of the unbalanced in WW. Fighting a WW with over 30k health, does anywhere between 4k to 5k damage (without bleeds), and is also reaping the benefits of TrollKing alongside vitality pots is beyond obnoxious. And should not be in existence. I'm all for build diversity, and don't believe in "meta-slaving". I never have, and never will. But some of this stuff is beyond ridiculous, and those in charge of balance should be ashamed of themselves and embarrassed that these types of builds can exist.

The path of least resistance leads to crooked rivers and crooked men
- Henry David Thoreau

Rohamad_Ali

You are becoming the Alex Jones of ESO . My WW build is not cheesy . Fighting players running vipers , tremorscale and IX Poisons is not easy on WW . WW is difficult in this meta for PVP . What do you expect us to run and stay alive ?

geonsocal

the amount of "unforseen" unbalanced results from different build synergies does make you wonder a bit how well thought out some of the choices zos makes regarding incorporating different gear sets...

then again - hard to underestimate the creativity and ingenuity of some of the eso player base...

hard to fault them though...eso is most definitely a competitive thing for many...competition brings the best/worst out of folks..

Ch4mpTW

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

You are becoming the Alex Jones of ESO . My WW build is not cheesy . Fighting players running vipers , tremorscale and IX Poisons is not easy on WW . WW is difficult in this meta for PVP . What do you expect us to run and stay alive ?

@Rohamad_Ali So you find nothing wrong at all with a person being able to hit 38k health (I watched the clip again and will post if you want), can do 4k to 5k damage (without bleeds), barely takes damage, and when they do has TrollKing to prep them back into fighting shape no problem, and is also popping vitality pots...? All the while able to CONSTANTLY CC you with the strongest CC in the game (everyone knows fear is easily the best CC in the game)...? Meanwhile dogs are hitting you as well, or you're just taking straight-up ludicrous damage with bleeds? You find absolutely nothing wrong with that?

I'll be the "Alex Jones" of ESO. Lol. Tf? Like I care. But call things for what they are. Call it how it is. Everything is about cheese. Viable and cheese are different. And you know that. You of all people definitely should know that, as you easily would classify as a PvP'er. But don't sit there, and claim how it's the only way for you to survive as werewolf. Because we both know that is untrue.

In fact, I'll tell you exactly what it is. It's the PvP mindset of always having to cheese it to win. Why? Because if you don't cheese, the next person will. The days of fighting legit and clean been gone. It's all about that extra edge. Regardless of how obnoxious the build is. Regardless of how much flack it is. And not even that. It's not just the builds. It's anything that will give that advantage. Be it gap-closing into keeps, constantly flipping keeps with enemy alliances to boost AP, running bugged skills and or sets so that you can squeeze out that extra bit of damage, using resource poisons and or vitality potions, etc.

And you know what? It's not all the player base's faults. It is ZOS' fault for refusing to do a lot of things which need to be done. It's ZOS' fault for letting things get this bad to begin with, and not having tighter policies on exploits and cheating. It's ZOS' fault for having allowed something like animation cancelling to exist to begin with. It's ZOS' fault for implementing a lot of these cheesy things for the player base use, to combat the cheese. When in fact, it only makes the problem worse than when it began.

s7732425ub17_ESO

Stop trying to remove build diversity from this game. Right now, all stamina builds are using the same proc set garbage. And now you find someone who is actually using a unique build that works well and you don't like it? Sure it's built on top of cheese, but PVP always shifts from one form of cheese to another. And WW is hard to play, but also incredibly fun, so stop trying to remove this fun!

Ch4mpTW

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Stop trying to remove build diversity from this game. Right now, all stamina builds are using the same proc set garbage. And now you find someone who is actually using a unique build that works well and you don't like it? Sure it's built on top of cheese, but PVP always shifts from one form of cheese to another. And WW is hard to play, but also incredibly fun, so stop trying to remove this fun!

Case and point. Done.

Beardimus

Seriously of all the builds to rage about WW is not one of them. Good on someone for making it work, its rare you see that, and its such a niche build its like focusing around Soul Assault or Overload or any one aspect you can make it work if you commit. But you also have huge downsides and counters.

Id love to be spanked by a working WW build over stamina CC boredom proc set one light attack and get auto hit with 15 other things any day

Regarding builds that are OP, Threads like this will only make things worse however as its attracts people who like to focus on meta / op nonsense.

Rohamad_Ali

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

You are becoming the Alex Jones of ESO . My WW build is not cheesy . Fighting players running vipers , tremorscale and IX Poisons is not easy on WW . WW is difficult in this meta for PVP . What do you expect us to run and stay alive ?

@Rohamad_Ali So you find nothing wrong at all with a person being able to hit 38k health (I watched the clip again and will post if you want), can do 4k to 5k damage (without bleeds), barely takes damage, and when they do has TrollKing to prep them back into fighting shape no problem, and is also popping vitality pots...? All the while able to CONSTANTLY CC you with the strongest CC in the game (everyone knows fear is easily the best CC in the game)...? Meanwhile dogs are hitting you as well, or you're just taking straight-up ludicrous damage with bleeds? You find absolutely nothing wrong with that?

I'll be the "Alex Jones" of ESO. Lol. Tf? Like I care. But call things for what they are. Call it how it is. Everything is about cheese. Viable and cheese are different. And you know that. You of all people definitely should know that, as you easily would classify as a PvP'er. But don't sit there, and claim how it's the only way for you to survive as werewolf. Because we both know that is untrue.

In fact, I'll tell you exactly what it is. It's the PvP mindset of always having to cheese it to win. Why? Because if you don't cheese, the next person will. The days of fighting legit and clean been gone. It's all about that extra edge. Regardless of how obnoxious the build is. Regardless of how much flack it is. And not even that. It's not just the builds. It's anything that will give that advantage. Be it gap-closing into keeps, constantly flipping keeps with enemy alliances to boost AP, running bugged skills and or sets so that you can squeeze out that extra bit of damage, using resource poisons and or vitality potions, etc.

And you know what? It's not all the player base's faults. It is ZOS' fault for refusing to do a lot of things which need to be done. It's ZOS' fault for letting things get this bad to begin with, and not having tighter policies on exploits and cheating. It's ZOS' fault for having allowed something like animation cancelling to exist to begin with. It's ZOS' fault for implementing a lot of these cheesy things for the player base use, to combat the cheese. When in fact, it only makes the problem worse than when it began.

See ? You went from calling a good WW build cheesy to adding exploiting and comparing anyone that uses good builds to people breaking the rules . I do not break any rules in ESO . There are people that break the rules but you are blurrying the topic by including people with strong builds not cheating . That is so not fair or objective . Why not make a post about exactly what your concern is and how it is over performing in your opinion without all the added negativity ... Being objective is seeing both sides of a situation . I described the other side with WW vulnerability to poison , especially in no cp fights . You have to expect a good build creator to address that at some point without assuming exploitation .

Zendran

Yeah, werewolf is strong and can last the whole time in a duel. I'm sorry, but you need to just learn to deal with it. Coming from someone who doesn't play WW (so I'm not biased in favor of it), WW abilities are expensive as all hell. Like 3.5k on average with 7 pieces of medium armor or something like that. And especially if the guy is using vitality pots he's gonna run out of stam and get caught in a CC pretty quick if you're playing properly...

Sharee

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

@Rohamad_Ali So you find nothing wrong at all with a person being able to hit 38k health (I watched the clip again and will post if you want), can do 4k to 5k damage (without bleeds), barely takes damage, and when they do has TrollKing to prep them back into fighting shape no problem, and is also popping vitality pots...? All the while able to CONSTANTLY CC you with the strongest CC in the game (everyone knows fear is easily the best CC in the game)...? Meanwhile dogs are hitting you as well, or you're just taking straight-up ludicrous damage with bleeds? You find absolutely nothing wrong with that?

WW sacrifices a lot while he is in wolf form. He is missing 5 skill slots and has no ultimate. He can not shield himself, cannot reflect projectiles... Cannot rez anyone. His heal scales with magicka and spellpower. And, of course, he is vulnerable to poison and fighter's guild abilities the way vamp is(to fire).

All the power he has is the tradeoff for the above. So yes, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

coop500

Ohh man, that'd be awesome~ So many WWs are just useless almost and I've been making it my goal to change that and make a good one. Sounds like this guy beat me to it.

There's a reason why vampires outnumber WWs in most end game content and PVP, because most magicka builds see no reason not to be a vamp, while WWs have a lot of drawbacks once transformed. It takes a lot of work to get that working well and I give congrats to this WW for making that so.

Tasear

Koolio wrote: »

A werewolf with a successful build and now people can't stand it lmao.

^

coop500 wrote: »

Ohh man, that'd be awesome~ So many WWs are just useless almost and I've been making it my goal to change that and make a good one. Sounds like this guy beat me to it.

There's a reason why vampires outnumber WWs in most end game content and PVP, because most magicka builds see no reason not to be a vamp, while WWs have a lot of drawbacks once transformed. It takes a lot of work to get that working well and I give congrats to this WW for making that so.

^

UppGRAYxDD

Dawnbreaker or poison inject will cure most werewolf problems.

coop500

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Dawnbreaker or poison inject will cure most werewolf problems.

Exactly, just use the obvious counters, POISON and be glad it has a counter (unlike some classes/builds)
Trust me I wish I could just poison a magicka sorc and be done with it.

NBrookus

coop500 wrote: »

There's a reason why vampires outnumber WWs in most end game content and PVP, because most magicka builds see no reason not to be a vamp, while WWs have a lot of drawbacks once transformed.

It's not that there's no reason not to be a vamp. Vamps have drawbacks all the time; from fire damage to fighter's guild skills. It's that for magplar and magDK, mistform is practically impossible to survive without in Cyrodiil. Mobility is essential and those classes don't have any.

Magblades can go either way but the sneak speed synergizes well with the class.

I definitively miss Dark Stalker when I'm on my sorcs, but they don't need mistform so they aren't vamps. And while I don't have a magwarden, there's no big need for vamp on warden class either.

coop500

My point still stands that they outnumber WWs probably 10 to 1 in PVP and probably trials/vet dungeons.

Tasear

coop500 wrote: »

My point still stands that they outnumber WWs probably 10 to 1 in PVP and probably trials/vet dungeons.

Have you ever seen a werewolf in a trail besides that one video. They are rarer than dk healers. But on the latter aren't most us upset in pve seeing them. There's discint discrimination for them which is sad. We should love fluffies.

coop500

Tasear wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

My point still stands that they outnumber WWs probably 10 to 1 in PVP and probably trials/vet dungeons.

Have you ever seen a werewolf in a trail besides that one video. They are rarer than dk healers. But on the latter aren't most us upset in pve seeing them. There's discint discrimination for them which is sad. We should love fluffies.

Besides myself? No not really lol. That's what I mean, everyone is all like 'yes roll vampire~' and no one complains about them because they are everywhere and totally accepted. WWs are rare as heck and hated upon because they are very easily made badly. Now finally someone makes a good one and someone throws a hissy fit.

paulsimonps

And people say werewolf are useless RP BS...... Someone made it work and now people QQ about it. Its not cheese, its been like this for a long time now, just that most don't play them. And Troll king will be nerfed next update, and so will proc sets in general. Werewolfs are by no means a problem.