Trading Guilds charging 15k/week now WTF

Junkkis

tis game need AH. current system only benefits players that play a lot. if u are casual who play 1-2 hour in day u screwed.

MalagenR

I play casual and I'm not being screwed, you're just freaking lazy. There is nothing stopping you from paying for a spot in the guild once a month to sell your *** after it's accumulate over a couple of casual weeks. I drop out of both trading guilds sometimes to do this.

TARAFRAKA

andreasranasen wrote: »

TARAFRAKA wrote: »

Exodium wrote: »

Lol I've just been kicked from Back Alley Trading for not paying their 15k a week fee only 3 days after deadline. I've been working till late and lag at night when I get home so I can only play on weekends, which isn't enough to justify that fee atm until ZOS sorts out their servers.

This is the problem with fixed guild fees. No flexibility whatsoever.

Nice way to treat its members. Good riddance.

a kiosk week is only 7 days. you didnt pay your rent for that kiosk. 3 days late is almost half the sales week. why keep you in there when they can pull someone else in whos actively playing and selling? you acknowledge you dont play enough to justify the fee and you admit you didnt pay the fee.

you also didnt say you messsaged any officers to let them know you couldnt or wouldnt be online so why would you expect preferential treatment carrying you on the roster for free?

but they are the bad guys?

if i rent you a home for 15k every month and almost half the month goes by and you havent paid or called, id be well within my right to have you vacate the space.

And Im not on PS4 so dont say Im someone from that guild sticking up for them. Not my platform.

This just struck me as entitlement. You have one job, pay the fee. They have one job, secure the trader. They held up their end. YOU didnt.

If you dont have the time or ability due to lag to play regularly, then you shouldnt stay in the guild anyway! what, were you just going to stay to see how long theyd carry you for free?

LOL...

LOL is the tried and true response when logic has backed you into an indefensible corner.

MalagenR

TARAFRAKA wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

TARAFRAKA wrote: »

Exodium wrote: »

Lol I've just been kicked from Back Alley Trading for not paying their 15k a week fee only 3 days after deadline. I've been working till late and lag at night when I get home so I can only play on weekends, which isn't enough to justify that fee atm until ZOS sorts out their servers.

This is the problem with fixed guild fees. No flexibility whatsoever.

Nice way to treat its members. Good riddance.

a kiosk week is only 7 days. you didnt pay your rent for that kiosk. 3 days late is almost half the sales week. why keep you in there when they can pull someone else in whos actively playing and selling? you acknowledge you dont play enough to justify the fee and you admit you didnt pay the fee.

you also didnt say you messsaged any officers to let them know you couldnt or wouldnt be online so why would you expect preferential treatment carrying you on the roster for free?

but they are the bad guys?

if i rent you a home for 15k every month and almost half the month goes by and you havent paid or called, id be well within my right to have you vacate the space.

And Im not on PS4 so dont say Im someone from that guild sticking up for them. Not my platform.

This just struck me as entitlement. You have one job, pay the fee. They have one job, secure the trader. They held up their end. YOU didnt.

If you dont have the time or ability due to lag to play regularly, then you shouldnt stay in the guild anyway! what, were you just going to stay to see how long theyd carry you for free?

LOL...

LOL is the tried and true response when logic has backed you into an indefensible corner.

He/She is a cry baby. Been pointed out a bunch of times.

Crafts_Many_Boxes

I think the bottom line of this sub-argument is as such:

The players who want an AH don't want a game inside of their game. We just want a means to dump all our extra crap and make a little bit of extra gold from players who might actually need said crap. It's really that simple.

Those who support the current system argue back, saying that they enjoy the current system and shouldn't have to conform to players who want an easier, lower time-intensive means of participating in the economy.

Here's the problem: there is only ONE economy. PvPers, PvErs, Traders, and even RPers all only have one economy, because gold is the only in-game currency.

So right now, even though everything revolves around gold, many PvE / PvP players who would prefer to do actual PvP / PvE things can't really make any gold / participate in the economy, because they can't justify putting the time in. Hint: many of us don't have the time to do both in ANY capacity. It's not a matter of being lazy or being entitled, we're just tired of being screwed over because the economy of the game actively works against us and our preferred playstyle.

Conclusion: there is no way to make everyone happy and keep one unified currency, unless PvP and PvE content suddenly generates enough gold to sustain itself (which it currently doesn't even come close to doing).

I realize this thread was originally about guild fees, but the discontent over guild fees stems from all of this. A dedicated trader probably wouldn't have any issue with such costs, but the whole basis of my argument is that one should not have to dedicate themselves to a certain playstyle (trading) to be able to participate in trading.

Look at it this way: ANY player can jump into the random dungeon que at ANY time, even veteran dungeons if they're 50+. ANY group of players can jump into a trial, all they have to do is physically go there. ANY player can jump into Cyrodil. Why can't any PvE / PvPer sell their stuff on a whim, without having to roam the streets for hours shouting "WTS X" like a buffoon?

DaveMoeDee

Junkkis wrote: »

tis game need AH. current system only benefits players that play a lot. if u are casual who play 1-2 hour in day u screwed.

I might agree with this. Except I probably play 1-2 hours a day on average. Difference is, I stockpiled motifs by grinding during the anniversary and keep flipping those. Plus furniture recipes still sell well and are all over the place. I am able to maintain a slot in a decent trading guild, despite not aiming to get stuff to sell regularly.

DaveMoeDee

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

I think the bottom line of this sub-argument is as such:

The players who want an AH don't want a game inside of their game. We just want a means to dump all our extra crap and make a little bit of extra gold from players who might actually need said crap. It's really that simple.

Those who support the current system argue back, saying that they enjoy the current system and shouldn't have to conform to players who want an easier, lower time-intensive means of participating in the economy.

Here's the problem: there is only ONE economy. PvPers, PvErs, Traders, and even RPers all only have one economy, because gold is the only in-game currency.

So right now, even though everything revolves around gold, many PvE / PvP players who would prefer to do actual PvP / PvE things can't really make any gold / participate in the economy, because they can't justify putting the time in. Hint: many of us don't have the time to do both in ANY capacity. It's not a matter of being lazy or being entitled, we're just tired of being screwed over because the economy of the game actively works against us and our preferred playstyle.

Conclusion: there is no way to make everyone happy and keep one unified currency, unless PvP and PvE content suddenly generates enough gold to sustain itself (which it currently doesn't even come close to doing).

I realize this thread was originally about guild fees, but the discontent over guild fees stems from all of this. A dedicated trader probably wouldn't have any issue with such costs, but the whole basis of my argument is that one should not have to dedicate themselves to a certain playstyle (trading) to be able to participate in trading.

Look at it this way: ANY player can jump into the random dungeon que at ANY time, even veteran dungeons if they're 50+. ANY group of players can jump into a trial, all they have to do is physically go there. ANY player can jump into Cyrodil. Why can't any PvE / PvPer sell their stuff on a whim, without having to roam the streets for hours shouting "WTS X" like a buffoon?

You can only jump into your faction in Cyrodiil and you have to wait for a slot to open up. It is not as open and free as you try to say it is.

And that is irrelevant anyway. Grouping is not selling and selling is not grouping.

And how do gamers still not know how to spell queue?

GreyWolf_79

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Junkkis wrote: »

tis game need AH. current system only benefits players that play a lot. if u are casual who play 1-2 hour in day u screwed.

I might agree with this. Except I probably play 1-2 hours a day on average. Difference is, I stockpiled motifs by grinding during the anniversary and keep flipping those. Plus furniture recipes still sell well and are all over the place. I am able to maintain a slot in a decent trading guild, despite not aiming to get stuff to sell regularly.

"I'm easily able to afford paying 100k a week in dues because my guild gets the best spot and I'm able to sell 200k worth of stuffs. Therefore this system is great, and anyone who can't afford 100k a week or doesn't feel like paying 100k a week shouldn't be allowed to sell anything anyway because they're useless plebs with nothing worth selling."

Does that more or less sum up your essential argument against an open auction house? Feel free to correct me if I've misinterpreted you.

Crafts_Many_Boxes

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

I think the bottom line of this sub-argument is as such:

The players who want an AH don't want a game inside of their game. We just want a means to dump all our extra crap and make a little bit of extra gold from players who might actually need said crap. It's really that simple.

Those who support the current system argue back, saying that they enjoy the current system and shouldn't have to conform to players who want an easier, lower time-intensive means of participating in the economy.

Here's the problem: there is only ONE economy. PvPers, PvErs, Traders, and even RPers all only have one economy, because gold is the only in-game currency.

So right now, even though everything revolves around gold, many PvE / PvP players who would prefer to do actual PvP / PvE things can't really make any gold / participate in the economy, because they can't justify putting the time in. Hint: many of us don't have the time to do both in ANY capacity. It's not a matter of being lazy or being entitled, we're just tired of being screwed over because the economy of the game actively works against us and our preferred playstyle.

Conclusion: there is no way to make everyone happy and keep one unified currency, unless PvP and PvE content suddenly generates enough gold to sustain itself (which it currently doesn't even come close to doing).

I realize this thread was originally about guild fees, but the discontent over guild fees stems from all of this. A dedicated trader probably wouldn't have any issue with such costs, but the whole basis of my argument is that one should not have to dedicate themselves to a certain playstyle (trading) to be able to participate in trading.

Look at it this way: ANY player can jump into the random dungeon que at ANY time, even veteran dungeons if they're 50+. ANY group of players can jump into a trial, all they have to do is physically go there. ANY player can jump into Cyrodil. Why can't any PvE / PvPer sell their stuff on a whim, without having to roam the streets for hours shouting "WTS X" like a buffoon?

You can only jump into your faction in Cyrodiil and you have to wait for a slot to open up. It is not as open and free as you try to say it is.

And that is irrelevant anyway. Grouping is not selling and selling is not grouping.

And how do gamers still not know how to spell queue?

Alright, my bad. With Cyrodil you sometimes have to press two buttons AND wait in a virtual line depending on your campaign. Silly me.

Grouping is related to selling in the same sense that PvP, PvE, and trading all exist within the same global economy. If you can't see the imbalance in what each aspect of the game requires from the other, then you haven't really been following along with what I've written.

geonsocal

well said @Crafts_Many_Boxes ...

as is unfortunately the case with most threads that go longer than 2 pages or so - a lot of the discussion begins to devolve in to personal insults...

where this infatuation with digging in to relatively complete strangers come from - i have no idea...i guess it's just human nature or competitive pride???

I would absolutely love a system that gave everyone an equal footing in selling their wares - from those mega farmers selling stacks of wax/tempers/rosin/kuta's and what not - to the newbie whom just busted out of the wailing prison but, happened to stumble upon some valuable motif inside a random crate while trying to outpace lyris' extremely annoying voice...

until then - we have what we have...i think it's marvelous though for us to have these type discussions...the more info/input/feedback i can see, read and process - the better off i am in making decisions which affect my gameplay...

i'm still a proud member of the very first guild i joined (Trader's Refuge)...and, yeah sure - i could most likely find a better guild trader deal than Back Alley Trading - however - i really like being in the guild...heck, it's in my signature block...i grinded hard to get to the point where i actually had enough stuff to sell and could afford the weekly fees for one of the top tier trading guilds...

hopefully this thread has been helpful to others - it definitely was to me...

if anything, i think what folks should really take away from this thread - come find my guild traders and buy my stuff!!!

generalmyrick

What must be said that isn't be said! because they will get banned for life, im sure, is that guilds are setting up dummy guilds to hold spots for their guild AND/OR they are buying guild trader spots from people setting up dummy guilds. Miss your bid and your dummy guild gets theirs! = disband the dummy guild and take the spot for 10k! miss your spot! no worries, it'll cost an extra million or 2 to get a spot from a "middleman!" 15k a week + people paying weeks ahead of time + kind hearted donations + raffles + ??? = Its all good! :-)

10 of the traders in Wayrest, Elden Root, Craglorn, and Reaper's March were held by dummy guilds. I checked who won the initial bid and checked 18 hours later and those 10 spots were occupied by very high profile guilds.

MalagenR

The reality is the whole shadow guild thing needs to be patched. If your guild disbands after you've won a trader it should go to the next highest bidder, period. That would solve all this crying.

generalmyrick

MALAGENR = i love it! :-)

DaveMoeDee

GreyWolf_79 wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Junkkis wrote: »

tis game need AH. current system only benefits players that play a lot. if u are casual who play 1-2 hour in day u screwed.

I might agree with this. Except I probably play 1-2 hours a day on average. Difference is, I stockpiled motifs by grinding during the anniversary and keep flipping those. Plus furniture recipes still sell well and are all over the place. I am able to maintain a slot in a decent trading guild, despite not aiming to get stuff to sell regularly.

"I'm easily able to afford paying 100k a week in dues because my guild gets the best spot and I'm able to sell 200k worth of stuffs. Therefore this system is great, and anyone who can't afford 100k a week or doesn't feel like paying 100k a week shouldn't be allowed to sell anything anyway because they're useless plebs with nothing worth selling."

Does that more or less sum up your essential argument against an open auction house? Feel free to correct me if I've misinterpreted you.

No, not at all. That is absurd. I pay zero in dues. I just need to sell a minimum, which I manage to do.

Where did you get the 100k in dues nonsense?

I am not opposed to an AH. I just disagree with your claim that people who are casual are screwed.

DaveMoeDee

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

I think the bottom line of this sub-argument is as such:

The players who want an AH don't want a game inside of their game. We just want a means to dump all our extra crap and make a little bit of extra gold from players who might actually need said crap. It's really that simple.

Those who support the current system argue back, saying that they enjoy the current system and shouldn't have to conform to players who want an easier, lower time-intensive means of participating in the economy.

Here's the problem: there is only ONE economy. PvPers, PvErs, Traders, and even RPers all only have one economy, because gold is the only in-game currency.

So right now, even though everything revolves around gold, many PvE / PvP players who would prefer to do actual PvP / PvE things can't really make any gold / participate in the economy, because they can't justify putting the time in. Hint: many of us don't have the time to do both in ANY capacity. It's not a matter of being lazy or being entitled, we're just tired of being screwed over because the economy of the game actively works against us and our preferred playstyle.

Conclusion: there is no way to make everyone happy and keep one unified currency, unless PvP and PvE content suddenly generates enough gold to sustain itself (which it currently doesn't even come close to doing).

I realize this thread was originally about guild fees, but the discontent over guild fees stems from all of this. A dedicated trader probably wouldn't have any issue with such costs, but the whole basis of my argument is that one should not have to dedicate themselves to a certain playstyle (trading) to be able to participate in trading.

Look at it this way: ANY player can jump into the random dungeon que at ANY time, even veteran dungeons if they're 50+. ANY group of players can jump into a trial, all they have to do is physically go there. ANY player can jump into Cyrodil. Why can't any PvE / PvPer sell their stuff on a whim, without having to roam the streets for hours shouting "WTS X" like a buffoon?

You can only jump into your faction in Cyrodiil and you have to wait for a slot to open up. It is not as open and free as you try to say it is.

And that is irrelevant anyway. Grouping is not selling and selling is not grouping.

And how do gamers still not know how to spell queue?

Alright, my bad. With Cyrodil you sometimes have to press two buttons AND wait in a virtual line depending on your campaign. Silly me.

Grouping is related to selling in the same sense that PvP, PvE, and trading all exist within the same global economy. If you can't see the imbalance in what each aspect of the game requires from the other, then you haven't really been following along with what I've written.

Look, I am fine with a global AH, even though I do fine in my trading guild. But even if I am fine with a global AH, I can take issue with really bad arguments. Why do I have to go to particular dungeons to get particular gear when I can jump to Cyrodiil from anywhere? That is how poor the comparison was.

You don't have to do WTS X in chat. You can sell in a guild. And good luck in the grouping tool when the people you are grouped decide they don't like you and bail. There are so many reasons why these comparisons are silly. They aren't related in any way that is meaningful.

Just accept that you want the AH for subjective judgments about what design is preferable, and not do to it being logically consistent with the larger design. I don't get why people feel compelled to pretend that their preference is the only logically consistent option. It isn't.

chris25602

So figured I would put in my 2 cents here. I play half pvp half farm/trade. If there was a global AH that would be great...my twist would be that the AH was AP only. Get pvp players to be able to contribute more directly to the economy....so go now and shout at how bad an idea this is.

MLGProPlayer

ToxicPAWS wrote: »

I've my own guild in PC-NA. Our sales/ donation weekly is 5k. Now with full 500 members and appx 70% active we do close to 15-20 mil sales on average. Now that seems like a lot of gold (not considering the big traders amounting 100 mil+) but only a fraction of that goes back into guild bank. We are located in Alkir since beginning and we started getting that trader for appx 200-400k gold and then it went up to 1 mil+. Just by taxes paying the weekly trader bid money is getting harder and harder. And then as a GM/ Officers you've to do your own sales and play game as well. So on my end I can justify 5K.
Now not saying that 15k or 400k is right or wrong, but the people who are setting those rules may have a justification for that and if you don't like the rules, you are free to leave instead of coming on forum and QQing about it.

PC and console are different, as I learned in these threads.

With no way to track member sales on consoles, they require weekly fees. Most PC guilds have a sales minimum instead of a fee requirement (the requirements can be very high in the prime locations, of course).

MLGProPlayer

GreyWolf_79 wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Junkkis wrote: »

tis game need AH. current system only benefits players that play a lot. if u are casual who play 1-2 hour in day u screwed.

I might agree with this. Except I probably play 1-2 hours a day on average. Difference is, I stockpiled motifs by grinding during the anniversary and keep flipping those. Plus furniture recipes still sell well and are all over the place. I am able to maintain a slot in a decent trading guild, despite not aiming to get stuff to sell regularly.

"I'm easily able to afford paying 100k a week in dues because my guild gets the best spot and I'm able to sell 200k worth of stuffs. Therefore this system is great, and anyone who can't afford 100k a week or doesn't feel like paying 100k a week shouldn't be allowed to sell anything anyway because they're useless plebs with nothing worth selling."

Does that more or less sum up your essential argument against an open auction house? Feel free to correct me if I've misinterpreted you.

What guild requires 100k dues?

PC guilds might require 100k in SALES (which is completely different from dues), but that's pretty easy to achieve (1-2 hours of farming is all you need). I find it hard to believe people can't manage that.

Console guilds require 10-15k dues in the prime locations since they don't have add-ons that can track member sales. Setting aside 10-15k from all the gold you made isn't difficult either, especially since making money on console is hilariously easy (there is so much inflation you can make 100k in like 30 minutes).

generalmyrick

please read this = https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/361042/major-city-guild-traders-work-around-hurts-smaller-guilds/p1?new=1
===================
This is new info, or old info that is not being discussed, that i haven't read on these forums.
____________________
Last guild trader changeover = 10 of the traders in Wayrest, Elden Root, Craglorn, and Reaper's March were held by dummy guilds. I checked who won the initial bid and checked 18 hours later and those 10 spots were occupied by very high profile guilds.

Problems;
1) guilds are getting these spots to sell them to big guilds who don't win their bid and/or,
2) high profile guilds are creating dummy guilds to try to "hold" a spot if they don't win their bid or sell if they win their first choice spot.
3) someone has figured out that these guilds will pay 5+ million for these spots and are sniping them to resell.
4) ???

The issue, from my point of view = that of a smaller guild leader...this seems an exploit/work around of the "1 guild gets to bid on 1 trader."

To reiterate; the guild(s) doing this have outcomes = 1 trader, or 1 trader and a trader to sell, or no trader...whereas non exploiters still have only outcomes = trader or no trader.

FURTHER = the exploit/work around users are hurting a smaller guilds ability/chance to get lucky move up that is inherent in the guild bidding system as it was designed.

===================================

+++I suggest an easy fix = a guild that wins a guild trader bid is not "disbandable" until they have no guild trader---they must exist until they are not occupying a stall.+++

Hexquisite

I am in the Rawl Guild with the 400k min, OR 15K in raffle sales. I have been in the guild for 2 years, and it is the best guild I have been in, my other trade guilds are pretty great too.

Our RAWL GM puts a lot of work into the guild, many many hours. We have awesome raffle prizes, contests, events, and around holidays we get surprises in the mail, and our Guild House has every crafting set in the game. I hit 400k and donate 20- 50k gold because it is such an awesome guild. I am not a farmer, I am not a top pvper, nor even a top end game player...I would say that I am a casual player who knows how to use the AH to my advantage:)

I have been in many other guilds that fell apart because the GMs and officers get overwhelmed by the work. All my trade guilds have some kind of requirement now, even my lowly pve guilds, because traders are expensive.

newtinmpls

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Must be a console thing. I do not know of any guilds in PC-NA that charge the members

I've heard a few in chat recruiting for PC NA reporting they "only" require weekly dues/donations/raffle tickets of 5k.

newtinmpls

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

And how do gamers still not know how to spell queue?

'Cause when I hear it, it sounds like "Cue"

DaveMoeDee

newtinmpls wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

And how do gamers still not know how to spell queue?

'Cause when I hear it, it sounds like "Cue"

Somehow people are coming up with "que".

MLGProPlayer

newtinmpls wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Must be a console thing. I do not know of any guilds in PC-NA that charge the members

I've heard a few in chat recruiting for PC NA reporting they "only" require weekly dues/donations/raffle tickets of 5k.

Those are new guilds trying to grow.

Established guilds never require dues. It's always a sales minimum OR a donation.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

stablished guilds never require dues. It's always a sales minimum OR a donation.

Just because you call it donation and not due won't make it different.

newtinmpls

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

Just because you call it donation and not due won't make it different.

What he said (or she?)

Door to door / panhandle-y / "religious" types have been doing this for years.

Po-tay-toe/ poh-tah-toe

MLGProPlayer

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

stablished guilds never require dues. It's always a sales minimum OR a donation.

Just because you call it donation and not due won't make it different.

You completely missed the point of my post...

I didn't say they were different (I agree that a donation and a due is the same thing). The point is they aren't REQUIRED. If you meet your sales requirement, you don't need to pay the due.

The only PC trade guilds that require dues are new guilds.