tis game need AH. current system only benefits players that play a lot. if u are casual who play 1-2 hour in day u screwed.

andreasranasen wrote: »

TARAFRAKA wrote: »

Exodium wrote: »

Lol I've just been kicked from Back Alley Trading for not paying their 15k a week fee only 3 days after deadline. I've been working till late and lag at night when I get home so I can only play on weekends, which isn't enough to justify that fee atm until ZOS sorts out their servers.

This is the problem with fixed guild fees. No flexibility whatsoever.

Nice way to treat its members. Good riddance.

a kiosk week is only 7 days. you didnt pay your rent for that kiosk. 3 days late is almost half the sales week. why keep you in there when they can pull someone else in whos actively playing and selling? you acknowledge you dont play enough to justify the fee and you admit you didnt pay the fee.

you also didnt say you messsaged any officers to let them know you couldnt or wouldnt be online so why would you expect preferential treatment carrying you on the roster for free?

but they are the bad guys?

if i rent you a home for 15k every month and almost half the month goes by and you havent paid or called, id be well within my right to have you vacate the space.

And Im not on PS4 so dont say Im someone from that guild sticking up for them. Not my platform.

This just struck me as entitlement. You have one job, pay the fee. They have one job, secure the trader. They held up their end. YOU didnt.

If you dont have the time or ability due to lag to play regularly, then you shouldnt stay in the guild anyway! what, were you just going to stay to see how long theyd carry you for free?

LOL...

LOL is the tried and true response when logic has backed you into an indefensible corner.

I think the bottom line of this sub-argument is as such:

The players who want an AH don't want a game inside of their game. We just want a means to dump all our extra crap and make a little bit of extra gold from players who might actually need said crap. It's really that simple.

Those who support the current system argue back, saying that they enjoy the current system and shouldn't have to conform to players who want an easier, lower time-intensive means of participating in the economy.

Here's the problem: there is only ONE economy. PvPers, PvErs, Traders, and even RPers all only have one economy, because gold is the only in-game currency.

So right now, even though everything revolves around gold, many PvE / PvP players who would prefer to do actual PvP / PvE things can't really make any gold / participate in the economy, because they can't justify putting the time in. Hint: many of us don't have the time to do both in ANY capacity. It's not a matter of being lazy or being entitled, we're just tired of being screwed over because the economy of the game actively works against us and our preferred playstyle.

Conclusion: there is no way to make everyone happy and keep one unified currency, unless PvP and PvE content suddenly generates enough gold to sustain itself (which it currently doesn't even come close to doing).

I realize this thread was originally about guild fees, but the discontent over guild fees stems from all of this. A dedicated trader probably wouldn't have any issue with such costs, but the whole basis of my argument is that one should not have to dedicate themselves to a certain playstyle (trading) to be able to participate in trading.

Look at it this way: ANY player can jump into the random dungeon que at ANY time, even veteran dungeons if they're 50+. ANY group of players can jump into a trial, all they have to do is physically go there. ANY player can jump into Cyrodil. Why can't any PvE / PvPer sell their stuff on a whim, without having to roam the streets for hours shouting "WTS X" like a buffoon?

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

I think the bottom line of this sub-argument is as such:

The players who want an AH don't want a game inside of their game. We just want a means to dump all our extra crap and make a little bit of extra gold from players who might actually need said crap. It's really that simple.

Those who support the current system argue back, saying that they enjoy the current system and shouldn't have to conform to players who want an easier, lower time-intensive means of participating in the economy.

Here's the problem: there is only ONE economy. PvPers, PvErs, Traders, and even RPers all only have one economy, because gold is the only in-game currency.

So right now, even though everything revolves around gold, many PvE / PvP players who would prefer to do actual PvP / PvE things can't really make any gold / participate in the economy, because they can't justify putting the time in. Hint: many of us don't have the time to do both in ANY capacity. It's not a matter of being lazy or being entitled, we're just tired of being screwed over because the economy of the game actively works against us and our preferred playstyle.

Conclusion: there is no way to make everyone happy and keep one unified currency, unless PvP and PvE content suddenly generates enough gold to sustain itself (which it currently doesn't even come close to doing).

I realize this thread was originally about guild fees, but the discontent over guild fees stems from all of this. A dedicated trader probably wouldn't have any issue with such costs, but the whole basis of my argument is that one should not have to dedicate themselves to a certain playstyle (trading) to be able to participate in trading.

Look at it this way: ANY player can jump into the random dungeon que at ANY time, even veteran dungeons if they're 50+. ANY group of players can jump into a trial, all they have to do is physically go there. ANY player can jump into Cyrodil. Why can't any PvE / PvPer sell their stuff on a whim, without having to roam the streets for hours shouting "WTS X" like a buffoon?

You can only jump into your faction in Cyrodiil and you have to wait for a slot to open up. It is not as open and free as you try to say it is.

And that is irrelevant anyway. Grouping is not selling and selling is not grouping.

And how do gamers still not know how to spell queue?

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

I think the bottom line of this sub-argument is as such:

The players who want an AH don't want a game inside of their game. We just want a means to dump all our extra crap and make a little bit of extra gold from players who might actually need said crap. It's really that simple.

Those who support the current system argue back, saying that they enjoy the current system and shouldn't have to conform to players who want an easier, lower time-intensive means of participating in the economy.

Here's the problem: there is only ONE economy. PvPers, PvErs, Traders, and even RPers all only have one economy, because gold is the only in-game currency.

So right now, even though everything revolves around gold, many PvE / PvP players who would prefer to do actual PvP / PvE things can't really make any gold / participate in the economy, because they can't justify putting the time in. Hint: many of us don't have the time to do both in ANY capacity. It's not a matter of being lazy or being entitled, we're just tired of being screwed over because the economy of the game actively works against us and our preferred playstyle.

Conclusion: there is no way to make everyone happy and keep one unified currency, unless PvP and PvE content suddenly generates enough gold to sustain itself (which it currently doesn't even come close to doing).

I realize this thread was originally about guild fees, but the discontent over guild fees stems from all of this. A dedicated trader probably wouldn't have any issue with such costs, but the whole basis of my argument is that one should not have to dedicate themselves to a certain playstyle (trading) to be able to participate in trading.

Look at it this way: ANY player can jump into the random dungeon que at ANY time, even veteran dungeons if they're 50+. ANY group of players can jump into a trial, all they have to do is physically go there. ANY player can jump into Cyrodil. Why can't any PvE / PvPer sell their stuff on a whim, without having to roam the streets for hours shouting "WTS X" like a buffoon?

You can only jump into your faction in Cyrodiil and you have to wait for a slot to open up. It is not as open and free as you try to say it is.

And that is irrelevant anyway. Grouping is not selling and selling is not grouping.

And how do gamers still not know how to spell queue?

Alright, my bad. With Cyrodil you sometimes have to press two buttons AND wait in a virtual line depending on your campaign. Silly me.

Grouping is related to selling in the same sense that PvP, PvE, and trading all exist within the same global economy. If you can't see the imbalance in what each aspect of the game requires from the other, then you haven't really been following along with what I've written.

What must be said that isn't be said! because they will get banned for life, im sure, is that guilds are setting up dummy guilds to hold spots for their guild AND/OR they are buying guild trader spots from people setting up dummy guilds. Miss your bid and your dummy guild gets theirs! = disband the dummy guild and take the spot for 10k! miss your spot! no worries, it'll cost an extra million or 2 to get a spot from a "middleman!" 15k a week + people paying weeks ahead of time + kind hearted donations + raffles + ??? = Its all good! :-)

10 of the traders in Wayrest, Elden Root, Craglorn, and Reaper's March were held by dummy guilds. I checked who won the initial bid and checked 18 hours later and those 10 spots were occupied by very high profile guilds.

MALAGENR = i love it! :-)

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

I think the bottom line of this sub-argument is as such:

The players who want an AH don't want a game inside of their game. We just want a means to dump all our extra crap and make a little bit of extra gold from players who might actually need said crap. It's really that simple.

Those who support the current system argue back, saying that they enjoy the current system and shouldn't have to conform to players who want an easier, lower time-intensive means of participating in the economy.

Here's the problem: there is only ONE economy. PvPers, PvErs, Traders, and even RPers all only have one economy, because gold is the only in-game currency.

So right now, even though everything revolves around gold, many PvE / PvP players who would prefer to do actual PvP / PvE things can't really make any gold / participate in the economy, because they can't justify putting the time in. Hint: many of us don't have the time to do both in ANY capacity. It's not a matter of being lazy or being entitled, we're just tired of being screwed over because the economy of the game actively works against us and our preferred playstyle.

Conclusion: there is no way to make everyone happy and keep one unified currency, unless PvP and PvE content suddenly generates enough gold to sustain itself (which it currently doesn't even come close to doing).

I realize this thread was originally about guild fees, but the discontent over guild fees stems from all of this. A dedicated trader probably wouldn't have any issue with such costs, but the whole basis of my argument is that one should not have to dedicate themselves to a certain playstyle (trading) to be able to participate in trading.

Look at it this way: ANY player can jump into the random dungeon que at ANY time, even veteran dungeons if they're 50+. ANY group of players can jump into a trial, all they have to do is physically go there. ANY player can jump into Cyrodil. Why can't any PvE / PvPer sell their stuff on a whim, without having to roam the streets for hours shouting "WTS X" like a buffoon?

You can only jump into your faction in Cyrodiil and you have to wait for a slot to open up. It is not as open and free as you try to say it is.

And that is irrelevant anyway. Grouping is not selling and selling is not grouping.

And how do gamers still not know how to spell queue?

Alright, my bad. With Cyrodil you sometimes have to press two buttons AND wait in a virtual line depending on your campaign. Silly me.

Grouping is related to selling in the same sense that PvP, PvE, and trading all exist within the same global economy. If you can't see the imbalance in what each aspect of the game requires from the other, then you haven't really been following along with what I've written.

Look, I am fine with a global AH, even though I do fine in my trading guild. But even if I am fine with a global AH, I can take issue with really bad arguments. Why do I have to go to particular dungeons to get particular gear when I can jump to Cyrodiil from anywhere? That is how poor the comparison was.

You don't have to do WTS X in chat. You can sell in a guild. And good luck in the grouping tool when the people you are grouped decide they don't like you and bail. There are so many reasons why these comparisons are silly. They aren't related in any way that is meaningful.

Just accept that you want the AH for subjective judgments about what design is preferable, and not do to it being logically consistent with the larger design. I don't get why people feel compelled to pretend that their preference is the only logically consistent option. It isn't.

ToxicPAWS wrote: »

I've my own guild in PC-NA. Our sales/ donation weekly is 5k. Now with full 500 members and appx 70% active we do close to 15-20 mil sales on average. Now that seems like a lot of gold (not considering the big traders amounting 100 mil+) but only a fraction of that goes back into guild bank. We are located in Alkir since beginning and we started getting that trader for appx 200-400k gold and then it went up to 1 mil+. Just by taxes paying the weekly trader bid money is getting harder and harder. And then as a GM/ Officers you've to do your own sales and play game as well. So on my end I can justify 5K.
Now not saying that 15k or 400k is right or wrong, but the people who are setting those rules may have a justification for that and if you don't like the rules, you are free to leave instead of coming on forum and QQing about it.

PC and console are different, as I learned in these threads.

With no way to track member sales on consoles, they require weekly fees. Most PC guilds have a sales minimum instead of a fee requirement (the requirements can be very high in the prime locations, of course).

please read this = https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/361042/major-city-guild-traders-work-around-hurts-smaller-guilds/p1?new=1
===================
This is new info, or old info that is not being discussed, that i haven't read on these forums.
____________________
Last guild trader changeover = 10 of the traders in Wayrest, Elden Root, Craglorn, and Reaper's March were held by dummy guilds. I checked who won the initial bid and checked 18 hours later and those 10 spots were occupied by very high profile guilds.

Problems;
1) guilds are getting these spots to sell them to big guilds who don't win their bid and/or,
2) high profile guilds are creating dummy guilds to try to "hold" a spot if they don't win their bid or sell if they win their first choice spot.
3) someone has figured out that these guilds will pay 5+ million for these spots and are sniping them to resell.
4) ???

The issue, from my point of view = that of a smaller guild leader...this seems an exploit/work around of the "1 guild gets to bid on 1 trader."

To reiterate; the guild(s) doing this have outcomes = 1 trader, or 1 trader and a trader to sell, or no trader...whereas non exploiters still have only outcomes = trader or no trader.

FURTHER = the exploit/work around users are hurting a smaller guilds ability/chance to get lucky move up that is inherent in the guild bidding system as it was designed.

===================================

+++I suggest an easy fix = a guild that wins a guild trader bid is not "disbandable" until they have no guild trader---they must exist until they are not occupying a stall.+++

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Must be a console thing. I do not know of any guilds in PC-NA that charge the members

I've heard a few in chat recruiting for PC NA reporting they "only" require weekly dues/donations/raffle tickets of 5k.

newtinmpls wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

And how do gamers still not know how to spell queue?

'Cause when I hear it, it sounds like "Cue"

Somehow people are coming up with "que".

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

stablished guilds never require dues. It's always a sales minimum OR a donation.

Just because you call it donation and not due won't make it different.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

stablished guilds never require dues. It's always a sales minimum OR a donation.

Just because you call it donation and not due won't make it different.

You completely missed the point of my post...

I didn't say they were different (I agree that a donation and a due is the same thing). The point is they aren't REQUIRED. If you meet your sales requirement, you don't need to pay the due.

The only PC trade guilds that require dues are new guilds.