Warden as a Healer

VampiricByNature

I have healed on ps4 since console launch. Today was my first day to test my warden healer in something more difficult than a dungeon. I did vdsa and 2 runs of v sanctum. Here's the opinions/thoughts that my teams ran into. I would love to know what other people have experienced- and if anyone has any tips. Sorry if this is long winded.

1) The blue betty murdered my team. A lot. In Vdsa and dungeons I did not have an issue. In Sanctum this skill seemed to get stuck. I would wave my hand around for what seemed like eternity- no heals for you!- RIP. Might have been the lag-monster. I will be testing this more but in both runs of VSO activating the betty was something to carefully consider.

2) My tank desperately missed his shards. In my group, I tend to be the tank caregiver. The balls are great bc you can shoot multiple ones but the moving synergy is just awful for everyone to synergize- and tanks just cannot be sprinting after a ball.

3) My group is not OP. They are great friends but we are still teaching positioning etc. One dps runs to the hills and THAT is the moment you miss BoL. The moment it takes you to aim your shrooms is the moment it takes for them to die. In a more practiced trial team this would not be as much of an issue.

4) Major toughness- the eternal warhorn healthbar was a big help in a group with poor warhorn uptime. In vdsa it gave us really felt like an advantage as well because you don't have much warhorn uptime in there-or at all- depending on how you run. For trial groups with good warhorn rotations I don't see this being an advantage.

5) I used ice fortress for the major resolve and major ward. I found the skill easy to use. It felt like it helped our squishies since our recent console nerf of the igneous shield. 1 shots seemed to decrease, particularly in vdsa where 1 mistake is a vitality lost.

6) I used enchanted growth as my semi-BoL replacement. I found it narrow to aim and cumbersome but my team did love the minor intellect. After some practice aiming it and realizing how narrow the cone is- it's not too shabby. For well stacked moments it felt very nice.

I'm going to play with it for a couple of weeks and see how it pans out but I would NOT recommend this for a starting healer and I don't know if I will be shelving my templar anytime soon. The templar BoL requires less focus and other skills are just easier to use. This felt like the healer version of swapping from a magsorc to a Magdk in rotation difficulty.

[On a side note- in Cyrodil to get my aggressive horn and purge I used nature's grasp to pull myself to people with superior mount speed. As a non-pvper this was the most fun I have ever had getting my needed skills. Research speed 4? Np! Lol.]

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Use healing ward or ward ally for your oh crap button. Acts just like breath.

heartburnkid

I like the healing. It is missing a good 'oh crap' heal, like the templar one (I am awful with move names. The huge group heal where they wave the hand and everyone gets a massive heal). The mushroom move is terrible. Too many times I spam it when a member takes massive damage and literally nothing happens. Have an empty power bar and nobody got healed. I position the cone correctly and everything. If anyone has a good replacement please let me know.

Wolfenbelle

I started a magicka warden about three weeks ago. I'm not a grinder, but do all content, so she's at level 26 now. Also, I can only play after work and on weekends. As a DPS player, I'm disappointed in the warden. In general, the skills mostly clunky to use, including the heals, and for whatever reason the skills are excruciatingly slow to level. Worst experience I've had leveling any class in the 3+ years I've played ESO. So much seems to have been poorly thought out in the warden.

Lord_Eomer

Warden is average class but lot of big animations,

Healing is weak except ultimate, dps is not good comparing others and not good tank due to recover low stamina while blocking! May be good as off-tank.

Wardens are strong may be in pvp but average in pve!

Tryxus

I've never played a Templar Healer (or Templar in general) so I can't exactly make a comparison with the Warden. However, I do believe that the Warden is only marginally worse than the Templar due to:

- Shards being near instant with the Tank
- Minor Toughness (provided by War Horn alrdy) vs Minor Sorcery

That being said tho, the Warden still has both the skills and the passives to keep up with the Templar as well. With the 2 most important ones being:

- Enchanted Growth. You do have to face the group, but it can heal more ppl than BoL plus it applies 2 regen buffs to the ppl healed.
- Budding Seeds. A very powerful burst heal and multiple ppl can use the synergy. If the Warden is wearing a set like Twilight Remedy, that's strong

As for the Blue Betty, yeah the Netch sometimes refuses to appear. You still get the Magicka return and the buff tho. Just activate it when you can, one and done

Jamascus

I like Warden Healer, but I also understand there is no right answer when it comes to making builds. It comes down to personal preference and what you can make work for your play style.

Front bar, Resto:

quick siphon, enchanted growth, healing springs/budding seeds, ice fortress, inner light, enchanted forest/eternal guardian ( if I need more magicka recovery)

Back Bar, Lightning staff:

energy orb, harness magicka, unstable wall of elements, blue betty, inner light, thunderous rage

5x seducer's
5x healer habit
1x molag kena

This works great for me.

Integral1900

Feels like I'm always sitting around waiting for stuff to happen, part of me is tempted to have a seat while I wait for effects to get their act in gear.

As a healer i still prefer Templar as it's so much more user friendly, warden lacks an effective "need panicky heal right now as the cp max dps keeps standing in the red POO!!!!"

So far dps wise I'm finding this class to be a buff supplier and an aoe debuff vendor, albeit a dam slow one, the damage is currently coming mostly from two handed and dual wield, even the bow is out doing the class skills

VampiricByNature

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO I tried to make healing ward work as an *oh crap!* heal for myself but I couldn't tolerate it- even thru vet dsa which I used to try to sort out my preliminary bar setup. [I saw this was the build idea @Alcast has up. I just couldn't make it work for me. ] I had the hardest time with bar setup and ended up finding Sempiternal Way on YouTube. He actually has videos up using the bars I found to be the best for me. He had wonderful reasoning for his setup with vet trial videos to show what he was doing.

For the Sanctum trial I wore 5pc Spc, 5pc healing mage and 1 master resto.
Front bar- blue betty, inner light [shield], combat prayer, healing springs, enchanted growth (northern storm)
Back bar- elemental blockade, ele drain, energy orbs, budding seeds, ice fortress (aggressive horn)

@heartburnkid I had 2 incidents of the heals not working during cradle of shadows and thought it was an isolated incident. Literally the dps was standing in front of me- in plain range and I spammed away my entire magic bar trying to see wtf was happening. This happened twice in non-stress situations where the dps was like.. *uh bruh.. you're not able to heal me. I legit see you trying. Where is your templar?*

Phinix1

The mushroom cone heals looks absolutely silly IMHO. Plus it makes your character stutter-stop if they are moving. Plus it misses completely, A LOT.

I can't count how many times I have been pointing directly at my bear or some random player and literally nothing happens. The shrooms pop up in this jarring, unnatural looking triangle, the target is standing in the middle of them, and yet they receive no heal.

I think they should just make this ability behave like Breath of Life and do away with the awful cone changes. Make the mushrooms a visual effect only. Clearly, it isn't working as intended, and the triangle patch of shrooms is one of the most visually out of place animations in the game.

leeshi

VampiricByNature wrote: »

1) The blue betty murdered my team. A lot. In Vdsa and dungeons I did not have an issue. In Sanctum this skill seemed to get stuck. I would wave my hand around for what seemed like eternity- no heals for you!- RIP. Might have been the lag-monster. I will be testing this more but in both runs of VSO activating the betty was something to carefully consider.

Since nobody else mentioned it... you really want to block cancel or bar swap cancel your betty. Any animation in the game that is greater than the 1s gcd you want to cancel. So just cast it then hit block after about 1/4-1/2 a second... too early and it won't go off. Then you're free to cast away without the animation. Bar swap works great for this cancel too... I use my bull netch on back bar then cast it when swapping into front, no animation, instant dps.

As for getting stuck it may have been some lag. There's been a lot of server issues lately.

Dakmor_Kavu

Gotta say I love my warden healer and she's replaced my Templar completely. There only downside is spears, but in a trial setup you'll always want one e Templar anyway for spears and more unique buffs anyway, so that's fine.

If I'm healing vet dungeons I'll usually opt for SPC and worm cult. In vet trials I like SPC and twilight remedy (wardens dropping synergies left right and center and this set gives a huge HOT, as well as a great 12% boost to crit damage!). Why it's so beneficial is highlighted when you look at the skills warden has access to.

Budding seeds: a placable, HOT providing (via synergy), multi target heal. You can use it as a set and forget, or instant pop it as needed for emergency heals. The fact that anyone in the area is healed AND can use the synergy means you're providing huge group utility. So you get the heal when it pops, the HOT from the synergy, AND the hot from twilight remedy when people activate the synergy. The healing from this is insane. Ooh, and folks using the synergy will also get the 12% crit damage bonus from twilight remedy. This ends up being one of my biggest healing sources hands down. Ooh, and it's cheap as hell so it's almost spamable.

Fungal growth: a combat prayer with longer/different buffs and stronger heal. Yes it needs to be aimed, but it quite fine. I used it only as an absolute emergency heal when not on my main healing bar. (More on bar setup later)

Blue Betty: great regen, acts as a 1 spell self purge, 12% regen just for being slotted (via passive), grants ultimate on summon, great duration, no cost... What's not to like?

Healing forest ultimate: cheap as hell, huge healing, great Hot at the end too if you like. This skills ability to put out huge heals is well documented. If you like the morph that returns ultimate it gets even cheaper.

Ice fortress: huge resistance buff, great duration, 8% damage reduction. Fantastic. The other morph is ok too if you prefer the range (28m) and don't need the 8% reduction.

Frost ultimate: damage and 8%damage reduction. It is on the expensive side, but it's a great option that provides max magika for just being slotted as well.

There are some other spells that I like too (gripping shards for CC, nature's embrace for mobility and healing) but I use those 2 for PvP only where they really shine. Leeching vines and lotus blossom I MAY use in pve, but only when I have a flex spot.


Trial Bar setup: (NOT 4 man dungeons)

Healing bar: resto staff
Healing springs
Combat prayer
Mutagen
Healing seeds
Blue betty
Healing forest ultimate

Support bar: lightning staff
Orbs
Elemental blockade
Flex (Purge, shield, buff, whatever is needed)
Fungal growth (a nice buff and so I'm never without a heal)
Ice fortress
War horn ultimate

Most time is spent on the heal bar. Swap over to the support bar to refresh the buffs (nice 20s time) and drop ele blockade and orbs as needed.

On the heal bar get the hots and aoe heals out, then keep combat prayer up as well as possible (makes a great heal too).

Not a crazy complex build, and definitely has great healing and group support.

Anhedonie

Netch is bugged. It can lock your panels if you swap cancel it.

IronCrystal

Dakmor_Kavu wrote: »

Gotta say I love my warden healer and she's replaced my Templar completely. There only downside is spears, but in a trial setup you'll always want one e Templar anyway for spears and more unique buffs anyway, so that's fine.

If I'm healing vet dungeons I'll usually opt for SPC and worm cult. In vet trials I like SPC and twilight remedy (wardens dropping synergies left right and center and this set gives a huge HOT, as well as a great 12% boost to crit damage!). Why it's so beneficial is highlighted when you look at the skills warden has access to.

Budding seeds: a placable, HOT providing (via synergy), multi target heal. You can use it as a set and forget, or instant pop it as needed for emergency heals. The fact that anyone in the area is healed AND can use the synergy means you're providing huge group utility. So you get the heal when it pops, the HOT from the synergy, AND the hot from twilight remedy when people activate the synergy. The healing from this is insane. Ooh, and folks using the synergy will also get the 12% crit damage bonus from twilight remedy. This ends up being one of my biggest healing sources hands down. Ooh, and it's cheap as hell so it's almost spamable.

Fungal growth: a combat prayer with longer buffs and stronger heal. Yes it needs to be aimed, but it quite fine. I used it only as an absolute emergency heal when not on my main healing bar. (More on bar setup later)

Blue Betty: great regen, acts as a 1 spell self purge, 12% regen just for being slotted (via passive), grants ultimate on summon, great duration, no cost... What's not to like?

Healing forest ultimate: cheap as hell, huge healing, great Hot at the end too if you like. This skills ability to put out huge heals is well documented. If you like the morph that returns ultimate it gets even cheaper.

Ice fortress: huge resistance buff, great duration, 8% damage reduction. Fantastic. The other morph is ok too if you prefer the range (28m) and don't need the 8% reduction.

Frost ultimate: damage and 8%damage reduction. It is on the expensive side, but it's a great option that provides max magika for just being slotted as well.

There are some other spells that I like too (gripping shards for CC, nature's embrace for mobility and healing) but I use those 2 for PvP only where they really shine. Leeching vines and lotus blossom I MAY use in pve, but only when I have a flex spot.


Trial Bar setup: (NOT 4 man dungeons)

Healing bar: resto staff
Healing springs
Combat prayer
Mutagen
Healing seeds
Blue betty
Healing forest ultimate

Support bar: lightning staff
Orbs
Elemental blockade
Flex (Purge, shield, buff, whatever is needed)
Fungal growth (a nice buff and so I'm never without a heal)
Ice fortress

Most time is spent on the heal bar. Swap over to the support bar to refresh the buffs (nice 20s time) and drop ele blockade and orbs as needed.

On the heal bar get the hots and aoe heals out, then keep combat prayer up as well as possible (makes a great heal too).

Not a crazy complex build, and definitely has great healing and group support.

Why would you ever run the cheap healing ultimate over aggressive warhorn? In addition, the animation for the trees is incredible annoying and blocks the tank's vision.

And I would never compare Fungal Growth to Combat Prayer. You are missing the most important aspect of Combat Prayer: Minor Berserk. Not to mention the buffs CP gives are resistances while Fungal gives regen.

Dakmor_Kavu

IronCrystal wrote: »

Why would you ever run the cheap healing ultimate over aggressive warhorn? In addition, the animation for the trees is incredible annoying and blocks the tank's vision.

And I would never compare Fungal Growth to Combat Prayer. You are missing the most important aspect of Combat Prayer: Minor Berserk. Not to mention the buffs CP gives are resistances while Fungal gives regen.

1: probably because I run horn and just forgot to mention it's on my support bar? I've gone ahead and edited it to show that.

2: trees isn't getting dropped on the tank many times and if it saves a number of lives it's usually worth it. The tanks I run with have no issues with it as far as blocking vision.

3: Fungal is EXACTLY like combat in how it functions (spray heal that provides a buff and had to be aimed). So no, I didn't forget minor berserk. I was merely comparing how the 2 work in terms of use. The buffs provided are clearly different and you can see I run both for just that reason. I didn't think I had to spell that out so clearly, but I have since edited it to not just say longer buffs, but different as well.

VampiricByNature

@Dakmor_Kavu I think having my emergency heal on my back bar would be awful for my team. That is mostly related to my personal reaction time but on my templar this would be like putting BoL on my backbar. The same actually for purge- I much prefer it on my front bar. Especially in HoF.

Again, I'm not the fastest gun in the west. Healing is not as cut and dry as dps. It definitely has some personal input and differences for group ability. I like your build but I just don't think it would work for my playstyle. I try to be prepared for dmg but my group is NOT experienced. Sometimes they run in the distance like wild buffalo roaming the plains..... That said, maybe I'm selling the HoT power short. I will test your set up as well- I try everything when trying to find my sweet spot.

I actually find combat prayer a heck of a lot more practical than the shroom toss. With the shroom toss, someone right in front of you but barely left or right will miss the buff/heal entirely. The top of the cone is SO narrow. Your comparison makes perfect sense to me- on your set up it's a buff to recast like combat prayer with a similar application. [Versus on my current setup where it functions like a shatty BoL]



@leeshi I think my issue actually comes from animation cancelling the betty. It just locks me up like crazy. Essentially what @Anhedonie said.

Bakkagami

In my experience, warden's best "oh crap" heal is buding seeds. It takes some focus to make sure it's down when you know damage is imminent, but the heal, especially if buffed is way stronger than the frontal are. The synergy it gives is also a good reason to keep it down as often as possible so I usually keep it on the tank or in a position where most of the group is being hit. The hots u can keep up on allies with that, the vine pull, and regen counters most of the incidental damage my group normally takes and popping the budding seeds handles the bigger hits.

leeshi

@VampiricByNature Interesting... I wonder if it's a betty thing? I have never had that issue while canceling bull netch with either bar swap or block. I've played quite a bit of warden and always use the netch with a cancel. I've never tried betty netch though as both my wardens are stam builds.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

VampiricByNature wrote: »

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO I tried to make healing ward work as an *oh crap!* heal for myself but I couldn't tolerate it- even thru vet dsa which I used to try to sort out my preliminary bar setup. [I saw this was the build idea @Alcast has up. I just couldn't make it work for me. ]

What does that mean?

Rustyfish101

I actually have shelved my templar and haven't touched her since I got my Warden healer to max. The whole point of the Warden healer is positioning, you must always be hyper-aware of yourself, your teammates, and your surroundings. Personally I don't recommend the shrooms as your "oh crap" button cause its not meant to be that, its more meant to help allies. I keep it in my rotation, casting it into the group every 20 seconds.

My emergency button has actually been either the vines or the budding seeds. The budding seeds especially is my favourite because its essentially an aoe BoL however if I get a straggler a simple swing of a vine will save them easily. It's all about that hyper focus which is why I like it so much I think lol.

I played on my templar again just the other day and I was soooooooo bored I felt like I wasn't helping my group at all and didn't know what to do anymore. I do agree though Templar is the way to go for beginners. Those healers looking to spice things up though, I can't recommend Warden enough!

(Never had that Betty issue though. Sometimes its invisible and I can't see it but it still is buffing and all that.)

VampiricByNature

I will say I've got an unusual amount of lag since Morrowind. Ps4 has been struggling a bit as far as trials go- I think it's quite a lot for the console to handle.

@lightningspeedb16_ESO my biggest problem is the healing ward going to the wrong person. With BoL you can usually hit the one you are tossing for. Healing ward is just unreliable for me. In vdsa it just didn't out perform BoL and that's only 4 people. I need something that gets the heal out quick so I can just move on with what else I'm doing. Vdsa- I'm doing dps. In trials I want to buff and I also do call outs- my brain fries the moment I'm like, "I need to heal Phil. Bubble..bubble.. Where is he? Why is it going to that fully healed person?... Mf... why won't this go to him?... fine I'll just healing springs.. nvm.. Phil is dead."

Again, I'm definitely NOT the best at this gamr and neithrr arr my friends. We play for fun. We get 39k or so in vdsa and around the 80s in vtrials.

Dakmor_Kavu

VampiricByNature wrote: »

@Dakmor_Kavu I think having my emergency heal on my back bar would be awful for my team.

Ah sorry I wasnt clear on what I meant for shrooms as an emergency heal.

Shrooms is not my default "oh ***" heal. Its my "oh *** im on my buff bar and someone needs a heal NOW" type oh *** heal. In this way I dont have to wait for the extra time to switch to my actual "healing" bar. I like having the ability to at least toss out a heal on either bar, and having shrooms on my buff bar lets me know thats never more than a single button hit away.

If Im on my designated healing bar of course I have plenty of healing options and I actually like healing seeds or combat prayer in a pinch (though I prefer seeds), both of which function beautifully for a big quick heal.

VampiricByNature

@Dakmor_Kavu is your build for dungeons or vtrials? I didn't get to vdsa today because my tank pal was offline.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

VampiricByNature wrote: »

I will say I've got an unusual amount of lag since Morrowind. Ps4 has been struggling a bit as far as trials go- I think it's quite a lot for the console to handle.

@lightningspeedb16_ESO my biggest problem is the healing ward going to the wrong person. With BoL you can usually hit the one you are tossing for. Healing ward is just unreliable for me. In vdsa it just didn't out perform BoL and that's only 4 people. I need something that gets the heal out quick so I can just move on with what else I'm doing. Vdsa- I'm doing dps. In trials I want to buff and I also do call outs- my brain fries the moment I'm like, "I need to heal Phil. Bubble..bubble.. Where is he? Why is it going to that fully healed person?... Mf... why won't this go to him?... fine I'll just healing springs.. nvm.. Phil is dead."

Again, I'm definitely NOT the best at this gamr and neithrr arr my friends. We play for fun. We get 39k or so in vdsa and around the 80s in vtrials.

I have literally never had that problem and I used healing ward all the time when I healed with my sorc, perfered it to the pet by a lot. Not sure how it would not go to the lowest person.

idk

1. Lag was probably why the betty was an issue in vSO. Lot more effects going off in there than DSA.

2. DPS also pick up shards since they are basically the same. However, it is always best to have one Templar in the group and a Templar Warden combo offer some benefits.

3. DPS have personal responsibility for their own survival. Shields for magicka and vigor blade cloak for stamina. However, again, back to the benefits of having a Templar in the group for those BoL emergencies. Also, you healed on a Templar for some time. It will take time to get used to the Warden and your positioning.

4 & 5. The buffs the Warden brings to the table are what will make it a great raid healer (when paired with a Templar) and place it as the second best raid healer in the game. Also the minor intellect (and minor endurance for stam users) you mention in point 6.

6. As I mentioned in point 3, you healed with a Templar for some time and it will take time to get used to the difference with mechanics. Also, if you think of enchanted growth as your BoL, once you get used to your positioning with the group it should be great. It is pretty good and hits more people.

A starting healer does not have the responses that are based on the skills you use that have become automatic for you over time. They should be fine.

Heck, leveling mine up I have done some random dungeons for the XP. I had gotten Darkshade 2 which most of the time I have gotten that while leveling a tank it has been a wipe in the poison phase. That enchanted growth was a great heal to keep players up while they were turning the poison off since I just pointed in their direction and kept clicking. A new player probably would have lacked the basic knowledge of their heals to figure to use, which you already have.

Waffennacht

I have a healer version that has massive up time on healing thicket.

Anyone else try that as the primary heal and set up bars for utilities?

Like orbs, spring, fungus etc

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Waffennacht wrote: »

I have a healer version that has massive up time on healing thicket.

Anyone else try that as the primary heal and set up bars for utilities?

Like orbs, spring, fungus etc

Warhorn is way too important. Any other ulti is a waste. Unless you are pugging normal dungeons, then you can do anything.

Sharee

VampiricByNature wrote: »

3) My group is not OP. They are great friends but we are still teaching positioning etc. One dps runs to the hills and THAT is the moment you miss BoL. The moment it takes you to aim your shrooms is the moment it takes for them to die. In a more practiced trial team this would not be as much of an issue.

Have you tried living trellis? You have to cast it twice initially, but the heal is pretty strong and its cheap(almost half the cost of shroom field). First cast applies the "get healed on damage" buff, second heal removes the buff (to replace it with it's own) and thus triggers the "on-expire" big heal of the first trellis.

I don't do much PvE personally, but trellis used in this way is enough to save some poor soul from a nightblade burst out in cyrodiil, even with the heal being cut in half by battle spirit.

Dakmor_Kavu

VampiricByNature wrote: »

@Dakmor_Kavu is your build for dungeons or vtrials? I didn't get to vdsa today because my tank pal was offline.

That setup is for Vtrials. For dungeons it doesn't take as much raw healing, so I cut back on that on the heal bar, move a few buffs to the heal bar, and turn what was the buff bar into utilities (orbs) and dps (ele blockade, dive, swarm) with a flex spot for a shield/Purge etc.

This way I have plenty of healing but can also contribute DPS.

Dungeon setup ends up being:

Dps/utility (lightning staff):
Dive
Ele blockade
Swarm
Flex (fungal, Purge, shield, whatever)
Orbs
Forest ultimate

Heal and buff bar (resto staff):
Combat prayer
Seeds
Mutagen
Ice fortress
Blue Betty
War horn ultimate

**Sometimes I swap in the ice ultimate if im with a pug and they seem to be getting worked, since for me the 30% damage reduction takes priority over the dps boost from horn

SirCritical

Are there any just-a-bit-viable stam healer builds out there, or is it still just a dream?

Dakmor_Kavu

SirCritical wrote: »

Are there any just-a-bit-viable stam healer builds out there, or is it still just a dream?

Warden does seem to have a number of stam morphs so if any class would be able to it'd be them, but I'm not sure how many of the actual healing abilities morph to stam vs how many of it is dps skills.