Imperial "Red Diamond" Passive - a fresh plea

Solariken

This passive currently gives melee attacks a 10% chance to restore 6% of your max health. It is so niche and the proc chance so low that it is generally not worth the skill point cost. Please consider changing this to all direct damage attacks. This would make the passive more accessible and useful for a variety of builds.

I used to plea for a re-imagining of this passive but since we're in another PTS cycle I'm just reaching for any bone you are willing to throw.

josiahva

::Shrug:: I find the passive very useful as it is...but then, I mainly tank on my Imperial and have 50k health, so its a significant source of self-healing

Solariken

josiahva wrote: »

::Shrug:: I find the passive very useful as it is...but then, I mainly tank on my Imperial and have 50k health, so its a significant source of self-healing

Yeah it would be somewhat useful on a health tank. My suggestion wouldn't change it's usefulness for you but it would make the passive accessible to magicka builds and ranged stamina builds.

dodgehopper_ESO

Solariken wrote: »

This passive currently gives melee attacks a 10% chance to restore 6% of your max health. It is so niche and the proc chance so low that it is generally not worth the skill point cost. Please consider changing this to all direct damage attacks. This would make the passive more accessible and useful for a variety of builds.

I used to plea for a re-imagining of this passive but since we're in another PTS cycle I'm just reaching for any bone you are willing to throw.

The problem with this passive is that it is a low chance of a low chance that you'll get a health improvement that is going to be cut in half in pvp and debuffed even further by defiles. Adrenaline rush does not face this kind of debuff. The other problem with this skill is that it is only functional when you are actively light attacking or heavy attacking with a MELEE weapon. This is one of those passives that doesn't fire very much all things considered. The Imperial DK tank in a pve scenario probably gets plenty of minor use out of this passive. Personally I don't like random chance on anything and I'd rather it were some other kind of steady trickle particularly since it is so conditional (melee weapon light attacks, strong health, low chance to proc, low heal value, weakness to defile, weakness to pvp debuff).

GreenSoup2HoT

Needs to scale based on level so its useful for all imperials and not health tanks.

It also needs to mimic redguard adrenaline rush and have a cooldown.

It also needs a straight up buff.

Chilly-McFreeze

Every race has passives that aren't usefull for every build, so at least it is in line with other racials. But how reasonable that is in itself is another question.

I, for my part wouldn't say no to a free 900 heal in PvP on a 30k build. Also people tend to say even 6% proc chance are rather high, at least if you ask them about a certain class passive that procs on physical dmg in execute range.

While I'm not against this suggestion per se, I think that 10% on all direct dmg for a free heal probably could become too strong. Fine tuning would be needed.

josiahva

You want to talk worthless passives? Lets talk Nords and their frost damage resist. There is so little frost damage in the game this passive only ever did me the slightest bit of good in the rink of frozen blood in vMA...aside from that it does NOTHING, or the Argonian swim speed increase...I mean....whats the use in that one exactly? The point is there are a lot of worthless(or near worthless) racial passives. Personally I think they should have passives and skills you can actually train for to fine tune your character...in other words, select the passives from a list you want and train those...these would replace your racial passives, because right now most of the racial passives are just there for flavor.

dodgehopper_ESO

josiahva wrote: »

You want to talk worthless passives? Lets talk Nords and their frost damage resist. There is so little frost damage in the game this passive only ever did me the slightest bit of good in the rink of frozen blood in vMA...aside from that it does NOTHING, or the Argonian swim speed increase...I mean....whats the use in that one exactly? The point is there are a lot of worthless(or near worthless) racial passives. Personally I think they should have passives and skills you can actually train for to fine tune your character...in other words, select the passives from a list you want and train those...these would replace your racial passives, because right now most of the racial passives are just there for flavor.

I like the notion of training within a race but I think your understanding of the passives is a little skewed. Frost Resist is pretty weak particularly given how strong it has been on Nords in past games. Nords are generally as frost resistant as Dunmer are Fire resistant and this is not the case in ESO. Nords also were physically resilient so they got that part right and I'd like to point out that the Resist Frost passive you speak of also grants 9% health bonus. Nords also get 6% Stamina, 20% health regen (way better than Red Diamond) and a Rugged passive that reduces damage received by 6%. Nords are tankier than Imperials at any range even without the frost resist.

Argonian swim speed comes for free and I'm fine with that one as is. Argonians in general are in a decent spot right now and are one of my favorite races for theme and gameplay right now.

nCats

I would want it to restore a fixed amount of health, 100% chance each 5 seconds (developers said they are going towards the fixed numbers philosophy when they changed redguard, so?). Like the redguard passive does for stamina. The tooltip value can be around 1.5k-2k for cp160.

Solariken

nCats wrote: »

I would want it to restore a fixed amount of health, 100% chance each 5 seconds (developers said they are going towards the fixed numbers philosophy when they changed redguard, so?). Like the redguard passive does for stamina. The tooltip value can be around 1.5k-2k for cp160.

I would be totally fine with this and honestly it's probably the easiest change to code.

Edit: although I would still love if it worked on all direct damage so that it's more usable overall. It would absolutely not be OP with the cooldown.

nCats

Solariken wrote: »

Edit: although I would still love if it worked on all direct damage so that it's more usable overall. It would absolutely not be OP with the cooldown.

I got nothing against that, I guess it would be even better, as it'd improve the variety of imperial characters (e.g. bowmen).

Somewhat in the same direction... Honestly, the problem I see with Imperials is that from the lore side, they have no obvious race traits which are useful in TES:Online.

What I'd probably like is to have them as a ``three-stat race'' (given Cyro is the centre of the world, they combine both Colovians and Nibenay peoples, etc). So that

First (levelable) passive: 12% health
Second: 10% Stamina
Third: 10% Magicka

I think it would make the Imperials more attractive for certain characters!

@ZOS_GinaBruno maybe that can be a fruitful idea?

Solariken

nCats wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Edit: although I would still love if it worked on all direct damage so that it's more usable overall. It would absolutely not be OP with the cooldown.

I got nothing against that, I guess it would be even better, as it'd improve the variety of imperial characters (e.g. bowmen).

Somewhat in the same direction... Honestly, the problem I see with Imperials is that from the lore side, they have no obvious race traits which are useful in TES:Online.

What I'd probably like is to have them as a ``three-stat race'' (given Cyro is the centre of the world, they combine both Colovians and Nibenay peoples, etc). So that

First (levelable) passive: 12% health
Second: 10% Stamina
Third: 10% Magicka

I think it would make the Imperials more attractive for certain characters!

@ZOS_GinaBruno maybe that can be a fruitful idea?

I've also seen that suggestion a few times in my day and think it would be neato.

BraidasNM

this passive, stealthy, and nord in general should all be reworked

GeorgeBlack

The fact is that this passive skill is not good enough to claim that it serves its intended purpose.

Buffing this skill would give Imperials a unique attribute just like Altmer and Dunmer have.

I'm all in for buffing unique racial skills that underperfom

idk

Solariken wrote: »

This passive currently gives melee attacks a 10% chance to restore 6% of your max health. It is so niche and the proc chance so low that it is generally not worth the skill point cost. Please consider changing this to all direct damage attacks. This would make the passive more accessible and useful for a variety of builds.

I used to plea for a re-imagining of this passive but since we're in another PTS cycle I'm just reaching for any bone you are willing to throw.

It is not bad for a tank. I will not keep them alive by that alone, and should not. For a 30k HP tank that is about 1800 HP restored. For a 60k tank which is not so uncommon today that is aproximatly 3600k.

Heck, I am all for a buff to my Imperial, but I have not found myself wanting in the racial passive department when it comes to that race.

dodgehopper_ESO

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

This passive currently gives melee attacks a 10% chance to restore 6% of your max health. It is so niche and the proc chance so low that it is generally not worth the skill point cost. Please consider changing this to all direct damage attacks. This would make the passive more accessible and useful for a variety of builds.

I used to plea for a re-imagining of this passive but since we're in another PTS cycle I'm just reaching for any bone you are willing to throw.

It is not bad for a tank. I will not keep them alive by that alone, and should not. For a 30k HP tank that is about 1800 HP restored. For a 60k tank which is not so uncommon today that is aproximatly 3600k.

Heck, I am all for a buff to my Imperial, but I have not found myself wanting in the racial passive department when it comes to that race.

That little burst might be nice in an oddball build which has lost a lot of validity in light of a lot of balance changes in the last six months. Its also worthwhile to recognize that even on your 60k tank (which should have horrible dps) you're getting a 3600 boost to health in pve out of 10 light or heavy attack strikes. Even if you're very fast with your clipping that doesn't amount to very much particularly when you factor in things like maintaining melee range. About the only use I can see for the passive is in a pve-tank role and even then its nothing stellar. I think its clear the Imperial was meant to be a tank though. In pvp the health burst is a joke because it is subject to things like defile and the general nerf to heals in pvp. That wouldn't bother me so much if they managed to nerf damage dealing passives of races like Khajiit, Redguard, Dunmer, etc. Battle-balance in pvp is screwball because it obviously favors some races over others.

dodgehopper_ESO

By the way the point I make about Pve vs. Pvp. I like both so I'm not suggesting screw things up. I've always suggested that the game builds toward PvP balance and then they DESIGN the trials/dungeon balance around that game balance. Invariably games that do this don't seem to have a problem with the pvp/pve balance.

ak_pvp

nCats wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Edit: although I would still love if it worked on all direct damage so that it's more usable overall. It would absolutely not be OP with the cooldown.

I got nothing against that, I guess it would be even better, as it'd improve the variety of imperial characters (e.g. bowmen).

Somewhat in the same direction... Honestly, the problem I see with Imperials is that from the lore side, they have no obvious race traits which are useful in TES:Online.

What I'd probably like is to have them as a ``three-stat race'' (given Cyro is the centre of the world, they combine both Colovians and Nibenay peoples, etc). So that

First (levelable) passive: 12% health
Second: 10% Stamina
Third: 10% Magicka

I think it would make the Imperials more attractive for certain characters!

@ZOS_GinaBruno maybe that can be a fruitful idea?

That would be beyond broken, they would be BIS for PvP, tanking, and strong for PvE.

Maybe if they toned it down to 7/7/7

Solariken

ak_pvp wrote: »

nCats wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Edit: although I would still love if it worked on all direct damage so that it's more usable overall. It would absolutely not be OP with the cooldown.

I got nothing against that, I guess it would be even better, as it'd improve the variety of imperial characters (e.g. bowmen).

Somewhat in the same direction... Honestly, the problem I see with Imperials is that from the lore side, they have no obvious race traits which are useful in TES:Online.

What I'd probably like is to have them as a ``three-stat race'' (given Cyro is the centre of the world, they combine both Colovians and Nibenay peoples, etc). So that

First (levelable) passive: 12% health
Second: 10% Stamina
Third: 10% Magicka

I think it would make the Imperials more attractive for certain characters!

@ZOS_GinaBruno maybe that can be a fruitful idea?

That would be beyond broken, they would be BIS for PvP, tanking, and strong for PvE.

Maybe if they toned it down to 7/7/7

Why would that be broken? You realize they are percentages right? You can't invest enough into all three pools for those bonuses to be overpowered.

There is essentially a fixed amount of raw stats available. Imperials can currently invest all of those stats into health and stamina, but nobody is complaining about that being OP. As the saying goes, it's six of one and half dozen of the other.

GreenSoup2HoT

ak_pvp wrote: »

nCats wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Edit: although I would still love if it worked on all direct damage so that it's more usable overall. It would absolutely not be OP with the cooldown.

I got nothing against that, I guess it would be even better, as it'd improve the variety of imperial characters (e.g. bowmen).

Somewhat in the same direction... Honestly, the problem I see with Imperials is that from the lore side, they have no obvious race traits which are useful in TES:Online.

What I'd probably like is to have them as a ``three-stat race'' (given Cyro is the centre of the world, they combine both Colovians and Nibenay peoples, etc). So that

First (levelable) passive: 12% health
Second: 10% Stamina
Third: 10% Magicka

I think it would make the Imperials more attractive for certain characters!

@ZOS_GinaBruno maybe that can be a fruitful idea?

That would be beyond broken, they would be BIS for PvP, tanking, and strong for PvE.

Maybe if they toned it down to 7/7/7

No way you reducing my health. I need every last bit.

murdomac101

What is classed as 'melee'?

GreenSoup2HoT

murdomac101 wrote: »

What is classed as 'melee'?

attacks under 9 meters with melee weapons. (since steel tornado procs it). light+heavy attacks.