Stopping Trading Guilds from Cheating?

Galenus_of_Pergamon

I play on PS4 NA. I have a four month old trading guild. We are moving up in Tamriel.

We just learned about a huge cabal (a secret political clique or faction) of 10+ major trading guilds. They each have side guilds. We'll call these side guilds "shell" or "shadow" guilds.

Each major trading guild will have 1-4 shell guilds (20-50 total guilds controlled by 10 guilds). The shell guilds will bid on secondary and tertiary traders in case the main trading guild loses their primary trader bid. Then, late Sunday night/Monday morning, the shell guild will disband, making the Trader they held available for 10k, and an officer from the main guild will be on standby waiting to snatch up the trader immediately after the shell guild has disbanded.

What if ZoS restricted Trader bidding to a 24-hour window (Saturday night, 9pm Eastern to Sunday night, 9pm Eastern)? Legitimate trading guilds would still have a 24 hour window to bid and shady guilds holding 4-5 traders at once would be significantly less valuable. It's a great compromise.

This would almost eliminate powerhouse guilds from bidding on 4-5 traders each. No longer would one trading guild effectively control 4-5 traders.

Megabear

Yes, restrict the trader bidding window to 24 hours (thus discouraging shadow guilds from gifting traders to their parent guilds and/or reselling the trader for profit).

Wow, that is a shady scam tactic. Yes I must agree with you.

Danksta

No, let guilds bid 168 hours (7 days) per week on a trader- and preserve convenience- even if it encourages monopolies and breaches in ZoS terms of service.

Always have to vote for the opposite poll option in biased polls that the OP wanted. Especially in this case since you have no evidence to back your claim.

Malic

I mean what the hell do you say to this? Are the guilds name NERDPATROL and NERDRUS by any chance?

Shell guilds? wholly *** im just here for a little PVP once in a while and to tbag AD fools.

ugh.

Galenus_of_Pergamon

Yes, restrict the trader bidding window to 24 hours (thus discouraging shadow guilds from gifting traders to their parent guilds and/or reselling the trader for profit).

Danksta wrote: »

Always have to vote for the opposite poll option in biased polls that the OP wanted. Especially in this case since you have no evidence to back your claim.

Providing evidence is tricky because revealing guild and player names may be a violation of terms of service.

I'll read the terms of service fully to verify this.

What is wrong with having a bias for justice?

Do you have a bias towards injustice? Are you violating terms of service? Are you knowingly in one of these trading guilds that have formed a cabal?

I never claimed to employ a non-biased poll. That is the job of a scientist - not that of a whistleblower who is seeking truth and justice for the masses.

It's a fact that this is happening on the PS4 NA service. It's also a fact that this is a violation of terms of service (says ZoS) because it exploits a game mechanic in a way other than intended.

Will you choose to listen to logic or to bathe in a tub of ignorance? Your call.

kargen27

This would have no affect and might actually benefit the larger trading guilds as they would have an easier time of making sure someone was on to bid in that 24 hour period. At the end of the 24 hour period they could still disband the other guilds.

Not a great solution but if a guild wins a trader then disbands maybe that trader should just be locked for the week. The guild would lose the gold they bid and there would be fewer incentives to bid on traders you have no intention of using. Large trading guilds could still bid on other traders and leave them empty hoping to cut down on competition but that would be expensive quick to be very effective.

If it weren't a drain on resources and/or a pain to implement might also ban (from bidding) any account that has bid on a trader then had the guild fold. Even the big guilds would quickly run out of players able and willing to bid on sham traders.

disintegr8

Why not just create a poll that has options, 'Yes, you are correct' and 'No, you are not wrong'.

Anything that is put in place to reduce the ability of any large trading 'cartels' will be got around pretty quickly anyway.

Galenus_of_Pergamon

Yes, restrict the trader bidding window to 24 hours (thus discouraging shadow guilds from gifting traders to their parent guilds and/or reselling the trader for profit).

kargen27 wrote: »

This would have no affect and might actually benefit the larger trading guilds as they would have an easier time of making sure someone was on to bid in that 24 hour period. At the end of the 24 hour period they could still disband the other guilds.

Not a great solution but if a guild wins a trader then disbands maybe that trader should just be locked for the week. The guild would lose the gold they bid and there would be fewer incentives to bid on traders you have no intention of using. Large trading guilds could still bid on other traders and leave them empty hoping to cut down on competition but that would be expensive quick to be very effective.

If it weren't a drain on resources and/or a pain to implement might also ban (from bidding) any account that has bid on a trader then had the guild fold. Even the big guilds would quickly run out of players able and willing to bid on sham traders.

Here's how it would at least partially alleviate the problem.

Hypothetical shell guild named "Heroic Trading" bids on a trader Saturday night at 9pm eastern. Let's say Heroic Trading wins their trader on Sunday night at 9pm (standard trader change time).

So, then they disband it Sunday night at 11pm for their parent guild to be right beside the trader stall to pick it up for 10k.

Not anymore! Once they disband the shell guild, the trader stall becomes unavailable until next Sunday and remains empty.

Granted, the shell guild could still disband on Saturday night at 9:01pm and the parent guild could own the trader for 23 hours.

But, how much less valuable is holding a trading guild for 23 hours than for 168 hours (7 full days)?

Sigtric

SHADOWBROKERS AND DARKWEB AHHHHHHHHHHHH

Shadeaux

Just put the cancelled trader on a timer just like claiming a keep (although longer).

Allows others to find the "open" traders and be there to bid with a twitchy finger as well.

bebynnag

just get rid of traders already - im sorry but if i wanted to play with money id play monopoly!

Galenus_of_Pergamon

Yes, restrict the trader bidding window to 24 hours (thus discouraging shadow guilds from gifting traders to their parent guilds and/or reselling the trader for profit).

kargen27 wrote: »

This would have no affect and might actually benefit the larger trading guilds as they would have an easier time of making sure someone was on to bid in that 24 hour period. At the end of the 24 hour period they could still disband the other guilds.

Not a great solution but if a guild wins a trader then disbands maybe that trader should just be locked for the week. The guild would lose the gold they bid and there would be fewer incentives to bid on traders you have no intention of using. Large trading guilds could still bid on other traders and leave them empty hoping to cut down on competition but that would be expensive quick to be very effective.

If it weren't a drain on resources and/or a pain to implement might also ban (from bidding) any account that has bid on a trader then had the guild fold. Even the big guilds would quickly run out of players able and willing to bid on sham traders.

"maybe that trader should just be locked for the week."

This is what I said. "Not being able to bid on an empty trader" is synonymous with "trader should be locked for a week".

baltic1284

Yes, restrict the trader bidding window to 24 hours (thus discouraging shadow guilds from gifting traders to their parent guilds and/or reselling the trader for profit).

Anything like this will just spell doom for the game itself over all cause then the few top traders will get it all and the lower ones wont be able to get up there and give theme completion but I do think punishmne tneeds be swift and permamnent.

disintegr8

puffytheslayer wrote: »

just get rid of traders already - im sorry but if i wanted to play with money id play monopoly!

Why not get rid of PVP - because I might only want to play PVE, or vice-versa, or get rid of vMA, because I have no interest in it so it shouldn't exist.

The game contains things you are and are not interested in, just ignore the traders and trading if you don't like them and leave others to use them if they choose.

Slurg

Neither. Several people have suggested making a trader unavailable for rehire at all for that week if the winning guild disbands. That would be a much more user friendly solution than forcing everyone including the non cheaters to rearrange their real lives to bid within a 24 hour window.

Slurg

Galenus_of_Pergamon wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

This would have no affect and might actually benefit the larger trading guilds as they would have an easier time of making sure someone was on to bid in that 24 hour period. At the end of the 24 hour period they could still disband the other guilds.

Not a great solution but if a guild wins a trader then disbands maybe that trader should just be locked for the week. The guild would lose the gold they bid and there would be fewer incentives to bid on traders you have no intention of using. Large trading guilds could still bid on other traders and leave them empty hoping to cut down on competition but that would be expensive quick to be very effective.

If it weren't a drain on resources and/or a pain to implement might also ban (from bidding) any account that has bid on a trader then had the guild fold. Even the big guilds would quickly run out of players able and willing to bid on sham traders.

"maybe that trader should just be locked for the week."

This is what I said. "Not being able to bid on an empty trader" is synonymous with "trader should be locked for a week".

No. You said limit the bids to 24 hours. It's not the same thing. In fact what you are saying means traders that are not bid on also will not be available for any of the non-cheating guilds to pick up as a backup if they lose their bid.

Cpt_Teemo

Yes, restrict the trader bidding window to 24 hours (thus discouraging shadow guilds from gifting traders to their parent guilds and/or reselling the trader for profit).

Tbh Trading guilds are getting way to out of hand already, they really just need to get rid of them

thisisScoMan

No, let guilds bid 168 hours (7 days) per week on a trader- and preserve convenience- even if it encourages monopolies and breaches in ZoS terms of service.

Allowing rampant cheating, of any kind, elevates everyone as a whole to a higher level.

It's why athletes should be allowed to take drugs and companies should be allowed to.. do that.. loophole thing that companies do. You know the one.

lolo_01b16_ESO

No, let guilds bid 168 hours (7 days) per week on a trader- and preserve convenience- even if it encourages monopolies and breaches in ZoS terms of service.

If you limit bidding to a shorter duration it would mostly hurt the smaller trading guilds. The leaders and officers of top guilds usually have a lot of time and can bid every week, no matter when it's allowed to bid. In smaller guilds people usually play less. So the small guilds might loose their trader just because the leader and officer have something better to do on a sunday than playing a game.

Galenus_of_Pergamon

Yes, restrict the trader bidding window to 24 hours (thus discouraging shadow guilds from gifting traders to their parent guilds and/or reselling the trader for profit).

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

If you limit bidding to a shorter duration it would mostly hurt the smaller trading guilds. The leaders and officers of top guilds usually have a lot of time and can bid every week, no matter when it's allowed to bid. In smaller guilds people usually play less. So the small guilds might loose their trader just because the leader and officer have something better to do on a sunday than playing a game.

Even small trading guilds that care about being an actual trading guild can find the time on the weekend to place a bid. If not, that's what recruiting active officers are for.

bebynnag

disintegr8 wrote: »

puffytheslayer wrote: »

just get rid of traders already - im sorry but if i wanted to play with money id play monopoly!

Why not get rid of PVP - because I might only want to play PVE, or vice-versa, or get rid of vMA, because I have no interest in it so it shouldn't exist.

The game contains things you are and are not interested in, just ignore the traders and trading if you don't like them and leave others to use them if they choose.

if it were just the trading system ie, i have stuff i dont want, so i sell it to buy stuff i do want i would be fine with it

but people are playing the 'trading game' they log on for 1 reason & 1 reason only to make money. and im sorry but i dont understand that, what is the end game objective?

because as i see it people make money so they can use that money to make more money, therfore giving them more money to invest in items they can flip in order to aquire even more money..... why? what is the ultimate goal?

Elsonso

It's also a fact that this is a violation of terms of service (says ZoS) because it exploits a game mechanic in a way other than intended.

How do you know whether it is intended or not?

lolo_01b16_ESO

No, let guilds bid 168 hours (7 days) per week on a trader- and preserve convenience- even if it encourages monopolies and breaches in ZoS terms of service.

Galenus_of_Pergamon wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

If you limit bidding to a shorter duration it would mostly hurt the smaller trading guilds. The leaders and officers of top guilds usually have a lot of time and can bid every week, no matter when it's allowed to bid. In smaller guilds people usually play less. So the small guilds might loose their trader just because the leader and officer have something better to do on a sunday than playing a game.

Even small trading guilds that care about being an actual trading guild can find the time on the weekend to place a bid. If not, that's what recruiting active officers are for.

Even with officers it can happen, that noone is online on weekends especially during summer. In my opinion it would be much easier to just block the trader completely for one week if the guild, that won the bid, disbands.

Urkraft

man, always think of the fact that trading on each server works otherwise. much stuff develops in different way, your idea is totally nonsense and useless on pc eu as example.

instead of that, zos must handle trading on each server a bit individually and should base the amount of traders on players.

the problems you are dealing with as example never happened on pc eu, so why change a running system with the high chance of failure due to zos competences in failing while changing a running system.

ComboBreaker88

No, let guilds bid 168 hours (7 days) per week on a trader- and preserve convenience- even if it encourages monopolies and breaches in ZoS terms of service.

All this would do would be to restrict it so the larger guilds run every decent spot in the game. They are not doing anything wrong. They are playing the system the way it was designed. If you don't like it, adapt. The larger guilds by their very nature work together so they don't start needless bidding wars and hurt their own memebers. Them going the extra mile for their guild isn't shady at all, it takes a ton of work and coordination to accomplish what they have. Just because it is difficult for a new guild or business to become established does not mean that those who use and understand the system should be punished or labeled as malicious. Especially when they bring a considerable and of stability to the in game economy and provide the game with a much needed gold sink. I wold also like to point out that most guilds run at a complete loss and their GMs are often the ones footing the bill to maintain their communities.

ComboBreaker88

No, let guilds bid 168 hours (7 days) per week on a trader- and preserve convenience- even if it encourages monopolies and breaches in ZoS terms of service.

Also, your poll is extremely biased. Two pointed options? Grow up.

kargen27

Galenus_of_Pergamon wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

This would have no affect and might actually benefit the larger trading guilds as they would have an easier time of making sure someone was on to bid in that 24 hour period. At the end of the 24 hour period they could still disband the other guilds.

Not a great solution but if a guild wins a trader then disbands maybe that trader should just be locked for the week. The guild would lose the gold they bid and there would be fewer incentives to bid on traders you have no intention of using. Large trading guilds could still bid on other traders and leave them empty hoping to cut down on competition but that would be expensive quick to be very effective.

If it weren't a drain on resources and/or a pain to implement might also ban (from bidding) any account that has bid on a trader then had the guild fold. Even the big guilds would quickly run out of players able and willing to bid on sham traders.

Here's how it would at least partially alleviate the problem.

Hypothetical shell guild named "Heroic Trading" bids on a trader Saturday night at 9pm eastern. Let's say eroic Trading wins their trader on Sunday night at 9m (standard trader change time).

So, then they disband it Sunday night at 11pm for their parent guild to be right beside the trader stall to pick it up for 10k.

Not anymore! Once they disband the shell guild, the trader stall becomes unavailable until next Sunday and remains empty.

Granted, the shell guild could still disband on Saturday night at 9:01pm and the parent guild could own the trader for 23 hours.

But, how much less valuable is holding a trading guild for 23 hours than for 168 hours (7 full days)?

Not what you said at all. Go back and read your first post. You didn't say the trader would be locked for a week. You said people could only bid on it for twenty four hours. The way things work wouldn't change in that scenario. An empty guild isn't bid upon. It is purchased first come first serve. The winning guild could still disband and make the trader available (if that is what is happening) whether the bidding takes a week or a day. If you meant the trader should be locked for a week then maybe that would work but from your initial post that isn't what I got.

jazsper77

Yes, restrict the trader bidding window to 24 hours (thus discouraging shadow guilds from gifting traders to their parent guilds and/or reselling the trader for profit).

Ah and here come the they are (we are) doing nothing wrong replies. I group of us have been compiling evidence for well over a year and nothing is being done.
For the they are doing nothing wrong folks these dummy guilds are being sold for real money on FB aka gold sellers. That is not ok with ZOS.

jazsper77

Yes, restrict the trader bidding window to 24 hours (thus discouraging shadow guilds from gifting traders to their parent guilds and/or reselling the trader for profit).

Large Guilds losing LMFAO . 400x10k = 4mill + taxes for the week 1-2mil + raffles,auctions,donations,50/50.
Oh and when your GM HIDES trans history so you can't see bid costs , then tells the members it 6 mill for bid.
Another dirty secret the Alliances pull is telling there members the spots cost more then they do. While the bid is far less, hence bid my Guild Mournhold supposed to be 8-10 mill. I bid 1.5 mill and won. Hmmm
My Guildies had a great week that week.

For the members in those Guilds it's great and for the GM and officers banking all that extra $$$

Cardhwion

I am not sure that would help. If it was changed like that, the members of the main guild could easily become (or already be) members of the Shadow Guild and do their trading through their trader for this week. That's why we can be in 5 guilds.

BrightOblivion

Your "solution" and blatantly biased poll choices do absolutely nothing to contend with those guilds who use bots to pay for their spots, which is against the ToS from any angle.

If they're selling them for real money, report them. If they aren't, it's shady but not against the rules. Sigh, congratulate yourself on your integrity, and move on.

And for all those suggesting to lock the trader on guild disband, you're just going to have shadow guilds buying up spots and leaving them fallow to eliminate competition, limiting the number of actual guilds to buy from. I'll be honest. I'd rather have shady business practices than empty/blank guild traders who do nothing but waste time and space.