Poisons for pve

hugh440

Would a poison giving 1392 poison damage per second for 3.3 seconds/minor sorcery(5% spell power boost) for 2.3 seconds/drain 238 magicka per second for 2.3 seconds be better than a poison giving just 238 magicka per second back for 5.5 seconds? I'm assuming its trivial if there is a difference but was just curious mainly. Edit: Forgot to mention the 3.5 second minor sorcery/3.5 second 238 magicka per second poison.

dpencil1

Well let's think of the math a bit. First, do you need the regen? If so, how much do you actually need to not run out of magicka? If the answer is, "I need all I can get, because I am struggling to keep from running out" then go full regen.

If you don't need much regen, let's consider what you would gain from the other effects.

Poison damage: 1392 x 3 = 4176
This can proc, at most, every 10 seconds, so at max proc chance, that's about 417 extra dps. Probably closer to 300 dps in real world applications.

Minor Sorcery's power is dependant on your base damage. If you're doing 20k dps, each second gives you +1000 damage. If you're doing 30k, each second gives you +1500 damage.
So for the 2 second version at 20k base dps, you're getting 2000 extra damage every 10 seconds. That is 200 dps. The 3 second version would grant 300 dps at 20k base dps and 450 dps at 30k dps.

For drain magicka, 2 seconds = 476, which is basically 95 more regen (since regen us calculated in 2 second increments)
3 second version = 714 (143 regen)
5 second version = 1190 (238 regen)

Again, these are with perfect uptime. You will get less than these values, but they give you a rough estimate of their power. Choose according to your preference.

Personally I like the one that gives Minor Sorcery and Minor Breach.

hugh440

I really appreciate the detailed and helpful reply!!!

STEVIL

if you have serious magica issues the magica gain is likely not gonna make up for it.

but the gains from vulnerability and spell power and your own damage boost are likely good or better.

IIRC if you want more poison damage look at the gradual one since no matter what you are looking at a 10s window.

finally, if you are gonna go with poison as a significant element consider assassin's guile because its 4s boost helps the short-duration multi-effect poisons quite a bit. its a good back-bar swap option that with something like violet corn smock poisons and you get some intriguing gains.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

The real question is are they better than a spell damage glyph, and if so, is it worth the obscene cost to run poisons in PVE. Personally, I think the answer is a big fat NO.

The only PVE poisons I would ever consider are drain magicka. What I realized after some testing (and crafting a few thousand of these bad boys) was that there are better ways to get your regen. I also found that stacks of 1000 sell like hot cakes for 35k. Haha.

paulsimonps

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

The real question is are they better than a spell damage glyph, and if so, is it worth the obscene cost to run poisons in PVE. Personally, I think the answer is a big fat NO.

The only PVE poisons I would ever consider are drain magicka. What I realized after some testing (and crafting a few thousand of these bad boys) was that there are better ways to get your regen. I also found that stacks of 1000 sell like hot cakes for 35k. Haha.

I think it was Alcast that suggested Drain Magicka Poisons on Maelstrom/Master Weapons cause you still get the spell damage/Max magicka bonus from those weapons even with Poisons. Though there is one that is better than the one I saw him link, one that gives Minor breach as well. Could be a thing but I agree that I don't really think so. But for those that do want to do that, minor breach up time could mean you wouldn't have to run anything into Spell Erosion and still get almost full penetration in trial scenarios.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

paulsimonps wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

The real question is are they better than a spell damage glyph, and if so, is it worth the obscene cost to run poisons in PVE. Personally, I think the answer is a big fat NO.

The only PVE poisons I would ever consider are drain magicka. What I realized after some testing (and crafting a few thousand of these bad boys) was that there are better ways to get your regen. I also found that stacks of 1000 sell like hot cakes for 35k. Haha.

I think it was Alcast that suggested Drain Magicka Poisons on Maelstrom/Master Weapons cause you still get the spell damage/Max magicka bonus from those weapons even with Poisons. Though there is one that is better than the one I saw him link, one that gives Minor breach as well. Could be a thing but I agree that I don't really think so. But for those that do want to do that, minor breach up time could mean you wouldn't have to run anything into Spell Erosion and still get almost full penetration in trial scenarios.

@paulsimonps
It was definitely Alcast. I am not saying he is wrong from a min/max standpoint, because let's face it, he is better than me, but I was never able to get higher dummy parses with poisons over the glyphs. I tried everything from poisons, to regen food, to regen glyphs, to extra HAs. I just dont see the benefit and they are REALLY expensive to run if you raid multiple times a week. Also, not positive, but I think the ones giving breach return less magic, but dont quote me on that.

I bought up a crap ton of bugloss and cornflower once he dropped those vids, and I definitely wasnt the only one. Starting to think it was market manipulation at it's finest. Not complaining as I have made about half a millon selling poisons, but I dont use them personally. Haha.

hugh440

The 2 effect poisons cut 2 seconds off of the magicka regen i think.