Dungeon Etiquette

Cletus

I don't usually think about this until it may be too late. When I am in a dungeon i attack anything even if another player is attacking it, thinking I am just helping us get to the end. Today something happened that made me rethink that strategy.
I was in a dungeon with a high level player(500+). He was slightly ahead of me and i was playing catch up all the way attacking whatever he was engaged with. At one point he just stopped and I got ahead killing what I could to clear the way. Then it dawned on me that maybe I was offending that player by helping kill his mobs? We got to the end boss and dispatched it pretty quickly thanks to him.
So I ask was I offending the other player and taking away from his game experience? I sure never meant to if I did and will change the way in which I work dungeons in the future if I have. Give me your opinions as they will guide how I continue to play.

leeux

When you mean Dungeon, you mean a Delve? An open public delve in a normal zone? The term Dungeon is normally reserved only to refer to the group dungeons, and in those yeah, you're pretty much expected to kill everything that attacks you

But if it was a delve, don't worry: there's no kill stealing in ESO and everyone that tags a mob with an attack shares the XP from the kill... so, no, I doubt you were offending the other player by killing mobs with him.

But there's some people that dislike other players following them around...they like to pretend they're playing the game alone and other players disturb that mental image

I know a few of those, but they'd have just stopped and waited in a corner until he was alone and the mobs respawned

EDIT: small correction.

Cletus

Yes I should have said Delve instead of dungeon.

Anunakis

maybe its not purely offending but its rude stealing someones kill , in delves or for WB if cant do anything solo dont attack what someone has agrroed on himself , i hate randoms sitting in bushes until someone comes and hard hit boss and spam just light attacks to tag mob for xp and loot

i miss the old times when players grouped around the boss or in delves for better loot xp , now its just light attack spam from mostly botters on combat script, so if you like be rude steal the kill be like bot

Magdalina

It's not really offensive(unless you killed the boss 3 seconds before he caught up, forcing him to wait for respawn ), generally it's whatever(some people might welcome the help too, though delves are generally really easy) since everyone gets loot and some xp, however xp is diminished with more people tagging same thing so if someone's grinding for xp(occasionally done in public dungeons, much less so in normal delves) they might get upset at someone diminishing their xp.

craftycarper73

its not offensive nor rude, your not stealing anyones kills, the mobs are there to be killed, so kill them, it is after all an MMO if they were somebody elses mobs and theres alone, they would in an instance on there own, simple as that.

If they dont like it, well thats whats considered tough, they should play a single player game perhaps.

zaria

Magdalina wrote: »

It's not really offensive(unless you killed the boss 3 seconds before he caught up, forcing him to wait for respawn ), generally it's whatever(some people might welcome the help too, though delves are generally really easy) since everyone gets loot and some xp, however xp is diminished with more people tagging same thing so if someone's grinding for xp(occasionally done in public dungeons, much less so in normal delves) they might get upset at someone diminishing their xp.

This, if you have someone just behind you don't burn the boss down as fast as possible but either wait a bit of do an slow fight.
For mob, you will often catch up with others as you can run but they have to stop and fight, if so you are free to help, both get loot and xp and it goes faster.
Only other thing who is not nice is to steal chests or resources from someone fighting.

MarzAttakz

I truly value MMO Etiquette, having been at them for more than a decade I mourn the loss of general public decency and manners. As hard as I try to maintain MMO Etiquette the more I play ESO the more bitter I become.

I solo alot myself and whenever someone else is around I'll try to include them if they're so inclined but I'm getting incredibly fed-up by players who treat various aspect of this game as their own private instance. To those "people" do us all a favour and ***-off to a single-player game if you have no manners.

blnchk

Not stealing other's kills has, for me, been an integral part of MMO etiquette. Here, others interfering in one's fights may hold no negative consequences, but it can still leave a sour taste. Old habits die hard. I still consider it more polite to not involve myself in other's fights unless they're clearly in need of help. All depends on the people involved, I suppose, so communication may be key.

DeadlyRecluse

Due to how XP and loot is split (or not split, really) in ESO, there isn't a real formal etiquette for delves and public dungeons. Just try not to mess up mob pulls too badly (spreading out a pull so they take longer to kill).

Hanokihs

If it was a high-level player and you aren't near his level, maybe they let you go first on purpose - not because you were kill stealing or being rude, but because they didn't want to feel like they were strong-arming the delve and keeping you from having fun.

I do that a lot; if I'm notably higher level than some other players and they're trying to keep up (not just sprinting through to the end), then I let them go ahead and meet 'em at the boss. Especially true if I'm running through repeatedly in search of a specific set piece, or if I know I'm in a standard low-level area. Same with dolmens and a few world bosses; I give everyone a chance to participate if I know there's a chance I'll monopolize the experience.

Elsonso

Cletus wrote: »

I was in a dungeon with a high level player(500+). He was slightly ahead of me and i was playing catch up all the way attacking whatever he was engaged with. At one point he just stopped and I got ahead killing what I could to clear the way. Then it dawned on me that maybe I was offending that player by helping kill his mobs? We got to the end boss and dispatched it pretty quickly thanks to him.

So I ask was I offending the other player and taking away from his game experience?

The higher level players should not care about you helping out with killing the scrub monsters that inhabit the overworld, public dungeons, and delves. At least, from a game mechanics perspective. XP and loot is shared with everyone, although XP drops the larger the group is. Spawn rates tend to be high, so it really does not matter.

If I think that I am dominating over another player, I might hold up and let them get ahead of me. I don't want to be killing things so fast that they can barely get a spell cast. If they race forward like they don't know I am there, they don't care that I am there. If they hesitate before moving forward, I interpret it as them agreeing. If they stand there with me, they don't want to get ahead of me, and I continue on. I am often followed through dungeons and delves by low level characters.

If I am being dominated by another player, they can easily get ahead of me pretty fast. I let myself fall behind, if I don't want to be dominated. If they stop and let me pass, I will.

Boss monsters in public dungeons and delves are a slightly different situation. The XP and loot are still shared, and the achievement progression is not a problem. Social etiquette applies because the monster might take several minutes to spawn again, and bosses are harder to kill than the rest of the monsters.

Bosses are fair for everyone to join in at any time. However, if I am alone, but there are other players around me, I will hold off on killing a boss I can solo, just to give others time to show up. This is just so people who are close by don't have to wait for the boss to spawn.

There are players were are keen on immersion, or want to solo bosses. It is pretty hard to be alone in a public place where others are around. I cannot do anything about the people who are trying to do this sort of thing. If they say or whisper that they want to take a boss solo, I will stand aside, until someone else comes along and joins in. It is darned near impossible to tell when someone wants to go it alone. These people will often stop and just stand there when others are around, which is easily confused with being AFK, or otherwise occupied.

If I see someone trying to do stealth attacks in a dungeon or a delve, I will hold up and let them do their thing. I will let them attack first. If there are streams of people going by this guy, I don't bother. He is just going to sneak through an empty dungeon or delve. Nothing I can do about it, but I get how people can be disappointed by crowds when they want to do this.

leeux wrote: »

When you mean Dungeon, you mean a Delve? An open public delve in a normal zone? The term Dungeon is normally reserved only to refer to the group dungeons, and in those yeah, you're pretty much expected to kill everything that attacks you

The term "dungeon" also applies to the public dungeons that can be found in every zone. That is what they are called. Be aware of this when you attempt to apply your definition.

Hookgrin

In order to get loot from a kill you have to have done a certain minimum percentage of damage. The amount was changed not long ago, I can't remember if it was changed from 5% to 10% or vice versa (this forum design in combination with the crappy search makes finding these things next to impossible!). You still get XP and gold for a tag, but for loot you need the minimum percent damage. That also limits how many people can receive loot (ever been in a large group boss kill and not get any loot, this is why).

So when I am killing a boss, whether solo or with a random number of people and I see one or more players join in, I am in the habit of looking at the health bar and doing a guesstimate of whether there's enough XP left for the player(s). If it is anything less than certain, I put up and hold block so they can see I am letting them take the rest. I still light attack occasionally if me taking aggro will be helpful for them.

I never get thanked or have seen anyone else do this. Until just last week in a public dungeon commonly farmed for a desirable set. A player put up and held block when I joined in late in the fight. I made a point of thanking them in chat. Hmm, they mimicked my behavior exactly, I wonder if they picked that up from me?

Often though I find myself running with one or two who seem to think showing off how few hits it takes them to kill a boss is a good thing. When this happens its time to go farm dolmens for jewelry, there is no minimum participation there.

AcadianPaladin

I think the advice here is good. I have a fairly high level healer who can easily solo blast through a delve without challenge. Her goal (part of being a healer) is to help others subtly depending on how they're doing and she has gotten pretty good at reading other players based on their actions. Here are some general observations:

If a player is blasting recklessly/quickly into mobs, they generally don't want help or think they don't need any. If they get in trouble my healer may toss a burst heal and maybe a heal over time buff but she won't tag along behind them.

If a player is moving more slowly/cautiously, my healer will often tag along providing buffs and such. After a few fights, if the player shows signs of waiting for her help or welcoming it she continues tagging along. If they ignore the help and continue on, she figures they don't really want it.

As said above, if she sees a stealth char, she may buff them but she will not aggro their target(s), letting them attack first, then adding dps only if they are trying to maintain bow range.

Whenever she approaches dungeon bosses, she waits and checks all around her. No delve bosses are a challenge for her but, as a healer, her preferred role is to heal/support/buff others. If someone else is around, she lets them get the fight going, then responds with whatever support seems needed to ensure an elegant victory for them.

Sometimes we see a player aggressively and intentionally aggroing and gathering groups of foes, then killing them all at once. She has learned that these players are generally practicing 'pulls' or such and generally do not want any help.

It is very rare that someone will come up on chat and ask her to leave them alone. Rather, after providing a bit of support, she is quite often asked to group with the player she was 'helping'.

Nestor

Cletus wrote: »

He was slightly ahead of me and i was playing catch up all the way attacking whatever he was engaged with. At one point he just stopped and I got ahead killing what I could to clear the way. Then it dawned on me that maybe I was offending that player by helping kill his mobs? We got to the end boss and dispatched it pretty quickly thanks to him.
So I ask was I offending the other player and taking away from his game experience? I sure never meant to if I did and will change the way in which I work dungeons in the future if I have. Give me your opinions as they will guide how I continue to play.

More than likely, he was letting you have more of the kills so you could gain game experience (not character leveling but learning to play). Most high levels hitting a delve are running a daily, getting a shard or killing the boss for an achievement. They don't care about the trash mobs. In any event, it does not matter, there is no kill stealing. The fact that he took the boss down with you and did not run ahead to kill it tells me everything was just fine.

Here is the etiquette I try to go by

1. If the other player is lower level, let them get hits in, and step in as needed
2. If the other player is same level, then kill what I can kill
3. If one of us gets to the boss first, wait for the other to show up
4. If I just did a chest and another one comes out, offer it to the other player. Same with heavy bags. If they don't take, I do.
5. If I kill a hard boss and a player runs up just after, I will usually wait if no one else is around to help them again.
6. If I kill a boss and a player showed up late, but might have gotten credit, I ask if they did. If not I usually wait.

Now, if the other player is looting containers and smelling the corpses and generally farting around (which I myself do more often than not) I ain't waiting for them, they have a different agenda. I understand, but I am not waiting for you.

wesley41

Not to turn this into a "back in the day" post....BUT...things used to be a bit more civil in delves and public dungeons. When zones were level-appropriate, working with others was beneficial...and sometimes needed. Now that you can go anywhere at any time, soloing only makes sense as your never really in over-your-head situations.

My CP 592 MagSorc is my main and I use him for dungeon runs for mats, gold, drops, etc. If I run into a low level player in there, I'm happy to help level that player's skills. Simple switch to a snare skill and let lower level whack away.

Not sure if this is ESO sign language, but if I see someone else in a delivery/dungeon, I jump a couple of times and SOMETIMES the other player will do the same. I interpret this to mean that we at least we'll be friendly. Worked for me so far.

AcadianPaladin

Speaking of sign language, I only play staff users. If I see a chest or heavy sack I want to offer to another nearby player, I often shoot a few light attacks at the chest/bag to draw attention to its location and indicate I am offering it up. I get mixed results so I'm not always sure my intent is clear.

drakhan2002_ESO

You've done nothing wrong. In fact, the game is designed to encourage this type of activity. You would certainly help someone kill a world boss would you not? The same holds true for these lesser mobs. You can "tap" these mobs for extra xps.

It doesn't matter where I am -- if I see a mob that I can kill, whether it is engaged by another player or not -- I attack it. Period. The reason? I get xp and loot. I am not breaking the rules in anyway or form. If someone has a problem with it...it is their problem, not mine.

Farscape76

I agree with the other responses here. The community really showed its quality in its response here. You weren't doing anything wrong at all. In fact simply by contemplating whether you offended or not, you showed that you have a courteous nature. New players, especially thoughtful ones, are always welcome in my book.

Danksta

If they were grinding XP they should either expect to share the XP or find a solo instance to grind XP.

FlaviusVoyage

Personally I only get frustrated if I don't even have the time to engage the mobs and suddenly everyone is dead with one-shot fired by someone constantly following me. I really don't have one-shot-mob range abilities as a tanky DK, and sometimes the only way I can participate on the kills is if I keep spamming burning talons over and over. Definitely not fun. As I know it is called "public" for a reason, I just leave the delve and come back around 4 in the morning. Or go to Skyreach Catacombs if I want a taste of mobs.

Danikat

I don't like people following me around in-game, but that's because a) it just seems a bit weird, especially when they don't say a word and b) I worry that they expect me to know what I'm doing (especially if I'm a higher level) and irrational as it is I then feel like I have to live up to that by leading them through the best route, knowing where to wait for bosses to spawn etc.

So if I feel like someone is deliberately following me around I'll either stop and sort out my inventory (or just go afk for a bit) or I'll do the complete opposite of what I think they expect and spend even more time than I usually do poking into random corners, climbing the scenery, checking every single barrel, sack etc. until they get bored and go away.

But if someone just happens to be there, doing the same things at the same time I am I don't mind it. The worst that will happen is I carefully sneak up on someone and just as I'm about to land a sneak attack some random charges in and engages them first, but that's not a big deal.

Deadfinger6

Kill 'em all, let RnG sort them out

Minyassa

No, that's not rude. What's rude is when someone who is hundreds of levels over someone who is doing their best to work through a delve OR a dungeon comes roaring through and burns away everything in sight before the lower level player can even tap the mobs at all. I can't count the number of times I've been fighting a group of mobs in the room right before the boss and had someone come zinging on past me and go kill the boss. I'm not invisible, I know they !%#$ing saw me there trying to get to the next room, they don't care. THAT is rude. I think some people assume that everyone is on a their fifth character and if they're not able to melt through groups in .2 seconds they are just fiddling around and not trying to level like everyone else. It was at a peak recently when I was with a group of lower level (I think the highest was in the CP 30s) grinders in Forgotten Wastes and a couple of ubers came in and were literally rushing from group to group doing their best to kill everything before the other group could get there. It looked deliberate. You don't get extra xp for excluding people. You're just needlessly denying other people xp and loot if you fly through and kill everything ahead of them when you see them there trying. So what you did, HELPING, is just fine.

Not saying everyone is like that, of course. The other day I died fighting a dungeon boss, was floating there right next to the thing obviously waiting to rematerialize after rezzing, and someone ran up and burned down the boss in seconds before I was even solid again. I think I burnt a hole in my monitor swearing. They started to run off and I turned and just watched them, and they turned around, and our toons stared at each other for a few seconds, and then they came back and waited with me for the respawn to help me kill that boss. I FORGIVE YOU, O REDEEMED ONE!

zaria

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Speaking of sign language, I only play staff users. If I see a chest or heavy sack I want to offer to another nearby player, I often shoot a few light attacks at the chest/bag to draw attention to its location and indicate I am offering it up. I get mixed results so I'm not always sure my intent is clear.

This is also standard in group dungeons where chests and heavy sacks is shared.

Shards are best but lighting, caltrops or hail also work.
And yes if you run an low level alt you don't need chest if running with cp+160, your crafted set is better than anything you find before you out level it but the other guy might like an sharpened necropotense staff

AcadianPaladin

@zaria thanks for the confirmation. Shards or other 'circles of light' like even Healing Springs to highlight them is a great idea I shall have to incorporate.

Anunakis

Minyassa wrote: »

No, that's not rude. What's rude is when someone who is hundreds of levels over someone who is doing their best to work through a delve OR a dungeon comes roaring through and burns away everything in sight before the lower level player can even tap the mobs at all. I can't count the number of times I've been fighting a group of mobs in the room right before the boss and had someone come zinging on past me and go kill the boss. I'm not invisible, I know they !%#$ing saw me there trying to get to the next room, they don't care. THAT is rude. I think some people assume that everyone is on a their fifth character and if they're not able to melt through groups in .2 seconds they are just fiddling around and not trying to level like everyone else. It was at a peak recently when I was with a group of lower level (I think the highest was in the CP 30s) grinders in Forgotten Wastes and a couple of ubers came in and were literally rushing from group to group doing their best to kill everything before the other group could get there. It looked deliberate. You don't get extra xp for excluding people. You're just needlessly denying other people xp and loot if you fly through and kill everything ahead of them when you see them there trying. So what you did, HELPING, is just fine.

Not saying everyone is like that, of course. The other day I died fighting a dungeon boss, was floating there right next to the thing obviously waiting to rematerialize after rezzing, and someone ran up and burned down the boss in seconds before I was even solid again. I think I burnt a hole in my monitor swearing. They started to run off and I turned and just watched them, and they turned around, and our toons stared at each other for a few seconds, and then they came back and waited with me for the respawn to help me kill that boss. I FORGIVE YOU, O REDEEMED ONE!

how many times u invited other high lvl player to your grp in order to get help ? or u just trying to tap to someones else dps to gain some xp?

Kaymorolis

What I do a lot in a Delve or something like that is leap-frog another player. We will both be running for the boss or skyshard. The other player will stop at a group of mobs and i'll run past to engage the next group. Then he will run past me etc etc.

If I end up at the boss I usually wait to see if he wants in on the loot too before engaging. Had one case where I got to the boss too late and didn't get credit, so I waited for the respawn. When I did engage the other guy showed back up for another whack at them.