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Why Does Healing Scale on Damage?

GrumpyDuckling
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Seems like a curious decision to make healing scale on weapon and spell damage. In this current healing system the strongest damage builds also have great self-healing. Wouldn't it be better for game play if players had to choose between damage and healing?
  • Cogo
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    I like the idea to add healing as a skill. More choices makes more builds.

    Orc agrees.
    Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
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  • GrumpyDuckling
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    Rouven wrote: »
    Seems like a curious decision to make healing scale on weapon and spell damage. In this current healing system the strongest damage builds also have great self-healing. Wouldn't it be better for game play if players had to choose between damage and healing?

    I guess the main idea here would be that you can be efficient playing solo as well.

    I was thinking the same until I remembered ZOS' past decisions such as AOE caps, dynamic ult removal, attacks from stealth nerf, and resource nerfs.

    They seem pretty anti-solo, and rather adamant about wanting players to group up, especially in Cyrodiil.
  • GrumpyDuckling
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    Bringing this back up because I still don't think it makes sense.
  • CyrusArya
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    To promote solo play. Not everyone wants to run with healers. Your suggestions only help to empower ppl who crutch on group support or zerging. For solo play to be possible, characters have to be able to heal and also deal sufficient damage. I don’t see the point of separating it other than to unnecessarily make the game more inaccessible and cumbersome.

    This rule set applies to everyone and accommodates solo solo play alongside group play.
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  • Joy_Division
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    Rouven wrote: »
    Seems like a curious decision to make healing scale on weapon and spell damage. In this current healing system the strongest damage builds also have great self-healing. Wouldn't it be better for game play if players had to choose between damage and healing?

    I guess the main idea here would be that you can be efficient playing solo as well.

    I was thinking the same until I remembered ZOS' past decisions such as AOE caps, dynamic ult removal, attacks from stealth nerf, and resource nerfs.

    They seem pretty anti-solo, and rather adamant about wanting players to group up, especially in Cyrodiil.

    Decisions which fit right in with what ZoS has done with healing. Skills have been made more expensive, nerfed in potency, (too) easily and heavily countered by trivial access to defile (which is buff by the most efficient CP star in the game), and further nerfing or outright removal of healing passives.


  • Ragnarock41
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    stamDk heal, 'green dragon blood', and our 'igneous shield' scales on missing health and max health, and both skills are equally garbage at keeping you alive, unless you go like ''screw damage, I will just stack hp and be useless''.

    And at that point you don't even need a good heal anyways.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on February 3, 2018 8:37PM
  • GrumpyDuckling
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    CyrusArya wrote: »
    To promote solo play. Not everyone wants to run with healers. Your suggestions only help to empower ppl who crutch on group support or zerging. For solo play to be possible, characters have to be able to heal and also deal sufficient damage. I don’t see the point of separating it other than to unnecessarily make the game more inaccessible and cumbersome.

    This rule set applies to everyone and accommodates solo solo play alongside group play.

    Are you sure ZOS is promoting solo play? Their history of significant changes, which slammed solo players, suggests otherwise:

    - Dynamic Ult removal
    - Morrowind sustain nerfs
    - Attack from stealth nerf
    - AOE caps (which will finally change in the upcoming update)

    Edit: typo
    Edited by GrumpyDuckling on February 4, 2018 3:09PM
  • Thogard
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    CyrusArya wrote: »
    To promote solo play. Not everyone wants to run with healers. Your suggestions only help to empower ppl who crutch on group support or zerging. For solo play to be possible, characters have to be able to heal and also deal sufficient damage. I don’t see the point of separating it other than to unnecessarily make the game more inaccessible and cumbersome.

    This rule set applies to everyone and accommodates solo solo play alongside group play.

    Are you sure ZOS is promoting solo play? Their history of significant changes, which slammed solo players, suggests otherwise:

    - Dynamic Ult removal
    - Morrowind sustain nerfs
    - Attack from stealth nerf
    - AOE caps (which will finally change in the upcoming update)

    Edit: typo

    There’s a difference between promoting solo play, such as fair dueling, and promoting 1vX. They’re aggressively trying to nerf the ability to do the latter, which is very unfortunate.
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  • SodanTok
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    Thogard wrote: »
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    To promote solo play. Not everyone wants to run with healers. Your suggestions only help to empower ppl who crutch on group support or zerging. For solo play to be possible, characters have to be able to heal and also deal sufficient damage. I don’t see the point of separating it other than to unnecessarily make the game more inaccessible and cumbersome.

    This rule set applies to everyone and accommodates solo solo play alongside group play.

    Are you sure ZOS is promoting solo play? Their history of significant changes, which slammed solo players, suggests otherwise:

    - Dynamic Ult removal
    - Morrowind sustain nerfs
    - Attack from stealth nerf
    - AOE caps (which will finally change in the upcoming update)

    Edit: typo

    There’s a difference between promoting solo play, such as fair dueling, and promoting 1vX. They’re aggressively trying to nerf the ability to do the latter, which is very unfortunate.

    Exactly this. ZoS never really done much to help people solo vs groups. On the contrary, most changes were always to give advantage to the bigger group. But they did, with many changes, helped to promote the solo play of not having to have friends or be part of guild/group to successfully PVP.

    That requires people to have effective defense and offense. Having healing based of damage is critical part of that.
    Edited by SodanTok on February 4, 2018 3:19PM


  • GrumpyDuckling
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    Thogard wrote: »
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    To promote solo play. Not everyone wants to run with healers. Your suggestions only help to empower ppl who crutch on group support or zerging. For solo play to be possible, characters have to be able to heal and also deal sufficient damage. I don’t see the point of separating it other than to unnecessarily make the game more inaccessible and cumbersome.

    This rule set applies to everyone and accommodates solo solo play alongside group play.

    Are you sure ZOS is promoting solo play? Their history of significant changes, which slammed solo players, suggests otherwise:

    - Dynamic Ult removal
    - Morrowind sustain nerfs
    - Attack from stealth nerf
    - AOE caps (which will finally change in the upcoming update)

    Edit: typo

    There’s a difference between promoting solo play, such as fair dueling, and promoting 1vX. They’re aggressively trying to nerf the ability to do the latter, which is very unfortunate.

    Yeah, Cyrodiil very much encourages group play.

    The only designed solo play in the game that appears to depend heavily on both healing and damage at the same time is Maelstrom Arena. If played smart though, not a whole lot of healing skills are even required there, as timely dodge rolling and shielding can prevent damage to one's health bar.

    Overland content is easy enough to solo, with the exception being some world bosses. I don't think ZOS ever intended for some dungeons to be easy to solo.
  • GrumpyDuckling
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    SodanTok wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    To promote solo play. Not everyone wants to run with healers. Your suggestions only help to empower ppl who crutch on group support or zerging. For solo play to be possible, characters have to be able to heal and also deal sufficient damage. I don’t see the point of separating it other than to unnecessarily make the game more inaccessible and cumbersome.

    This rule set applies to everyone and accommodates solo solo play alongside group play.

    Are you sure ZOS is promoting solo play? Their history of significant changes, which slammed solo players, suggests otherwise:

    - Dynamic Ult removal
    - Morrowind sustain nerfs
    - Attack from stealth nerf
    - AOE caps (which will finally change in the upcoming update)

    Edit: typo

    There’s a difference between promoting solo play, such as fair dueling, and promoting 1vX. They’re aggressively trying to nerf the ability to do the latter, which is very unfortunate.

    Exactly this. ZoS never really done much to help people solo vs groups. On the contrary, most changes were always to give advantage to the bigger group. But they did, with many changes, helped to promote the solo play of not having to have friends or be part of guild/group to successfully PVP.

    That requires people to have effective defense and offense. Having healing based of damage is critical part of that.

    Interesting perspective. It seems odd to me that effective defense (in this case healing) and offense is so heavily influenced by stacking damage - like, you're getting a 2 for 1 (both damage and healing) by stacking damage. But if you stack healing, you're ONLY getting healing.

    Let's take a look at this example build:

    5 pc Seventh Legion
    5 pc Clever Alchemist
    2 pc Bloodspawn

    I don't understand why this build should ALSO get strong heals on top of excellent defense and excellent damage. Why should I be rewarded so much healing by stacking damage?
  • idk
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    It not common and normal for healing to scale off damage stats. Every game I have played has done this though one game actually had a healing power stat but it scaled off regular power so it was really the same.

    I guess if a character had 4k spell damage Zos could add a stat that showed 4k spell healing power.

    I would say it is a requirement for OP to defend his position before asking others to answer his question. Seems odd he can only offer a complaint with zero information to support his opinion yet asked everyone else his question. If they cannot give a valid supporting reason for their opinion then it is clear it does not have a solid foundation.

    Really no reason to entertain this thread further until OP adds actual thoughts behind their opinion.
    Edited by idk on February 4, 2018 3:50PM
  • SodanTok
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    SodanTok wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    To promote solo play. Not everyone wants to run with healers. Your suggestions only help to empower ppl who crutch on group support or zerging. For solo play to be possible, characters have to be able to heal and also deal sufficient damage. I don’t see the point of separating it other than to unnecessarily make the game more inaccessible and cumbersome.

    This rule set applies to everyone and accommodates solo solo play alongside group play.

    Are you sure ZOS is promoting solo play? Their history of significant changes, which slammed solo players, suggests otherwise:

    - Dynamic Ult removal
    - Morrowind sustain nerfs
    - Attack from stealth nerf
    - AOE caps (which will finally change in the upcoming update)

    Edit: typo

    There’s a difference between promoting solo play, such as fair dueling, and promoting 1vX. They’re aggressively trying to nerf the ability to do the latter, which is very unfortunate.

    Exactly this. ZoS never really done much to help people solo vs groups. On the contrary, most changes were always to give advantage to the bigger group. But they did, with many changes, helped to promote the solo play of not having to have friends or be part of guild/group to successfully PVP.

    That requires people to have effective defense and offense. Having healing based of damage is critical part of that.

    Interesting perspective. It seems odd to me that effective defense (in this case healing) and offense is so heavily influenced by stacking damage - like, you're getting a 2 for 1 (both damage and healing) by stacking damage. But if you stack healing, you're ONLY getting healing.

    Let's take a look at this example build:

    5 pc Seventh Legion
    5 pc Clever Alchemist
    2 pc Bloodspawn

    I don't understand why this build should ALSO get strong heals on top of excellent defense and excellent damage. Why should I be rewarded so much healing by stacking damage?

    You are just confusing things now. If defense (healing) in this game was not related to offense (weapon damage for example), there would be different stat for healing that would make the same exact build perform the same exact way, because that is the desired balance.

    What you see as a problem is the desired way to allow players function. You could talk for hours about how healing is slightly overtuned in this game and you would be right, but one thing will simply never change. People will always have good healing and good damage. No matter how much stuff would change.


  • idk
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    SodanTok wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    To promote solo play. Not everyone wants to run with healers. Your suggestions only help to empower ppl who crutch on group support or zerging. For solo play to be possible, characters have to be able to heal and also deal sufficient damage. I don’t see the point of separating it other than to unnecessarily make the game more inaccessible and cumbersome.

    This rule set applies to everyone and accommodates solo solo play alongside group play.

    Are you sure ZOS is promoting solo play? Their history of significant changes, which slammed solo players, suggests otherwise:

    - Dynamic Ult removal
    - Morrowind sustain nerfs
    - Attack from stealth nerf
    - AOE caps (which will finally change in the upcoming update)

    Edit: typo

    There’s a difference between promoting solo play, such as fair dueling, and promoting 1vX. They’re aggressively trying to nerf the ability to do the latter, which is very unfortunate.

    Exactly this. ZoS never really done much to help people solo vs groups. On the contrary, most changes were always to give advantage to the bigger group. But they did, with many changes, helped to promote the solo play of not having to have friends or be part of guild/group to successfully PVP.

    That requires people to have effective defense and offense. Having healing based of damage is critical part of that.

    Interesting perspective. It seems odd to me that effective defense (in this case healing) and offense is so heavily influenced by stacking damage - like, you're getting a 2 for 1 (both damage and healing) by stacking damage. But if you stack healing, you're ONLY getting healing.

    Let's take a look at this example build:

    5 pc Seventh Legion
    5 pc Clever Alchemist
    2 pc Bloodspawn

    I don't understand why this build should ALSO get strong heals on top of excellent defense and excellent damage. Why should I be rewarded so much healing by stacking damage?

    You are just confusing things now. If defense (healing) in this game was not related to offense (weapon damage for example), there would be different stat for healing that would make the same exact build perform the same exact way, because that is the desired balance.

    What you see as a problem is the desired way to allow players function. You could talk for hours about how healing is slightly overtuned in this game and you would be right, but one thing will simply never change. People will always have good healing and good damage. No matter how much stuff would change.

    Exactly,
    Edited by idk on February 4, 2018 3:57PM
  • GrumpyDuckling
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    SodanTok wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    To promote solo play. Not everyone wants to run with healers. Your suggestions only help to empower ppl who crutch on group support or zerging. For solo play to be possible, characters have to be able to heal and also deal sufficient damage. I don’t see the point of separating it other than to unnecessarily make the game more inaccessible and cumbersome.

    This rule set applies to everyone and accommodates solo solo play alongside group play.

    Are you sure ZOS is promoting solo play? Their history of significant changes, which slammed solo players, suggests otherwise:

    - Dynamic Ult removal
    - Morrowind sustain nerfs
    - Attack from stealth nerf
    - AOE caps (which will finally change in the upcoming update)

    Edit: typo

    There’s a difference between promoting solo play, such as fair dueling, and promoting 1vX. They’re aggressively trying to nerf the ability to do the latter, which is very unfortunate.

    Exactly this. ZoS never really done much to help people solo vs groups. On the contrary, most changes were always to give advantage to the bigger group. But they did, with many changes, helped to promote the solo play of not having to have friends or be part of guild/group to successfully PVP.

    That requires people to have effective defense and offense. Having healing based of damage is critical part of that.

    Interesting perspective. It seems odd to me that effective defense (in this case healing) and offense is so heavily influenced by stacking damage - like, you're getting a 2 for 1 (both damage and healing) by stacking damage. But if you stack healing, you're ONLY getting healing.

    Let's take a look at this example build:

    5 pc Seventh Legion
    5 pc Clever Alchemist
    2 pc Bloodspawn

    I don't understand why this build should ALSO get strong heals on top of excellent defense and excellent damage. Why should I be rewarded so much healing by stacking damage?

    You are just confusing things now. If defense (healing) in this game was not related to offense (weapon damage for example), there would be different stat for healing that would make the same exact build perform the same exact way, because that is the desired balance.

    What you see as a problem is the desired way to allow players function. You could talk for hours about how healing is slightly overtuned in this game and you would be right, but one thing will simply never change. People will always have good healing and good damage. No matter how much stuff would change.

    When you say different "stat" for healing what do you mean?

    I'm curious why the game is designed to having healing scale on damage when there are categories specifically for healing (Healing Done, Healing Received, Healing Taken).

    Wouldn't it make sense to have those healing categories (Healing Done, Healing Received, Healing Taken) control healing, instead of damage?

    In the example with this build:

    5 pc Seventh Legion
    5 pc Clever Alchemist
    2 pc Bloodspawn

    Why should this build be able to have resistance, damage AND healing? But if I use sets with those healing categories (Healing Done, Healing Received, Healing Taken) I only get more healing that isn't nearly as valuable as damage.
  • CyrusArya
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    Are you sure ZOS is promoting solo play? Their history of significant changes, which slammed solo players, suggests otherwise:

    - Dynamic Ult removal
    - Morrowind sustain nerfs
    - Attack from stealth nerf
    - AOE caps (which will finally change in the upcoming update)

    Edit: typo

    Yes. Promoting something doesn’t mean it has to be the only or sole focus. Just that it is encouraged and supported, even among other things. ZOS understands damn well that solo PvP is a huge part of this games very fabric and would be very unwise to cull it. Even if they have made it harder over time, it is still very much so possible.

    I don’t consider a single point you made here as a rebuttal of my arguement. Dynamic ult removal was probably done to establish a more standardized baseline and in response to wildly broken things like old mag dks. Morrowind sustain nerfs only really hurt bad players. The game is so much better for it, even if solo play is a tad harder. Who cares for stealth damage? Ganking=!Solo PvP Lol. Ganking scum are the opposite of 1vXers. And aoe caps are being removed, what’s even the point of you raising that? To support my case?

    At any rate, don’t take this personally, but I find your posts to be very obnoxious. You’re always pushing for completely unnecessary changes. And my opinion on that, as I’m sure is also the devs, is to not waste resources fixing what isn’t broken.
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  • SodanTok
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    SodanTok wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    To promote solo play. Not everyone wants to run with healers. Your suggestions only help to empower ppl who crutch on group support or zerging. For solo play to be possible, characters have to be able to heal and also deal sufficient damage. I don’t see the point of separating it other than to unnecessarily make the game more inaccessible and cumbersome.

    This rule set applies to everyone and accommodates solo solo play alongside group play.

    Are you sure ZOS is promoting solo play? Their history of significant changes, which slammed solo players, suggests otherwise:

    - Dynamic Ult removal
    - Morrowind sustain nerfs
    - Attack from stealth nerf
    - AOE caps (which will finally change in the upcoming update)

    Edit: typo

    There’s a difference between promoting solo play, such as fair dueling, and promoting 1vX. They’re aggressively trying to nerf the ability to do the latter, which is very unfortunate.

    Exactly this. ZoS never really done much to help people solo vs groups. On the contrary, most changes were always to give advantage to the bigger group. But they did, with many changes, helped to promote the solo play of not having to have friends or be part of guild/group to successfully PVP.

    That requires people to have effective defense and offense. Having healing based of damage is critical part of that.

    Interesting perspective. It seems odd to me that effective defense (in this case healing) and offense is so heavily influenced by stacking damage - like, you're getting a 2 for 1 (both damage and healing) by stacking damage. But if you stack healing, you're ONLY getting healing.

    Let's take a look at this example build:

    5 pc Seventh Legion
    5 pc Clever Alchemist
    2 pc Bloodspawn

    I don't understand why this build should ALSO get strong heals on top of excellent defense and excellent damage. Why should I be rewarded so much healing by stacking damage?

    You are just confusing things now. If defense (healing) in this game was not related to offense (weapon damage for example), there would be different stat for healing that would make the same exact build perform the same exact way, because that is the desired balance.

    What you see as a problem is the desired way to allow players function. You could talk for hours about how healing is slightly overtuned in this game and you would be right, but one thing will simply never change. People will always have good healing and good damage. No matter how much stuff would change.

    When you say different "stat" for healing what do you mean?

    I'm curious why the game is designed to having healing scale on damage when there are categories specifically for healing (Healing Done, Healing Received, Healing Taken).

    Wouldn't it make sense to have those healing categories (Healing Done, Healing Received, Healing Taken) control healing, instead of damage?

    In the example with this build:

    5 pc Seventh Legion
    5 pc Clever Alchemist
    2 pc Bloodspawn

    Why should this build be able to have resistance, damage AND healing? But if I use sets with those healing categories (Healing Done, Healing Received, Healing Taken) I only get more healing that isn't nearly as valuable as damage.

    Again, you are totally confusing things. Healing Done/Received are nothing more than buffs like Berserk or Maim are. There are only 2 stats that contribute to tooltip value. Resource + Power/Damage. Every healing in this game is calculated from these two things and the value (scaling factor) is balanced with this in mind. And since healing is at the desired level, there are only 2 possibilites how to get damage out of this the way you want. Either by making healing scale only with resource or, as idk mentioned, create "Healing Power' stat. In any case, the game would be balanced in a way that would make the final healing as big as it is now.


  • Thogard
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    Oh hey that’s my build.
    SodanTok wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    To promote solo play. Not everyone wants to run with healers. Your suggestions only help to empower ppl who crutch on group support or zerging. For solo play to be possible, characters have to be able to heal and also deal sufficient damage. I don’t see the point of separating it other than to unnecessarily make the game more inaccessible and cumbersome.

    This rule set applies to everyone and accommodates solo solo play alongside group play.

    Are you sure ZOS is promoting solo play? Their history of significant changes, which slammed solo players, suggests otherwise:

    - Dynamic Ult removal
    - Morrowind sustain nerfs
    - Attack from stealth nerf
    - AOE caps (which will finally change in the upcoming update)

    Edit: typo

    There’s a difference between promoting solo play, such as fair dueling, and promoting 1vX. They’re aggressively trying to nerf the ability to do the latter, which is very unfortunate.

    Exactly this. ZoS never really done much to help people solo vs groups. On the contrary, most changes were always to give advantage to the bigger group. But they did, with many changes, helped to promote the solo play of not having to have friends or be part of guild/group to successfully PVP.

    That requires people to have effective defense and offense. Having healing based of damage is critical part of that.

    Interesting perspective. It seems odd to me that effective defense (in this case healing) and offense is so heavily influenced by stacking damage - like, you're getting a 2 for 1 (both damage and healing) by stacking damage. But if you stack healing, you're ONLY getting healing.

    Let's take a look at this example build:

    5 pc Seventh Legion
    5 pc Clever Alchemist
    2 pc Bloodspawn

    I don't understand why this build should ALSO get strong heals on top of excellent defense and excellent damage. Why should I be rewarded so much healing by stacking damage?

    Because if you stack damage you are losing out on defense

    Healing is not the same as resist and sustain, which is exactly why that build uses bloodspawn as it’s 2pc
    PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo

    Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
    YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp


  • montiferus
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    . Wouldn't it be better for game play if players had to choose between damage and healing?

    No it wouldn’t. Solo / small scale players have it hard enough as it is.

    I’m curious how large are the groups you run with in PVP?
  • montiferus
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    CyrusArya wrote: »
    To promote solo play. Not everyone wants to run with healers. Your suggestions only help to empower ppl who crutch on group support or zerging. For solo play to be possible, characters have to be able to heal and also deal sufficient damage. I don’t see the point of separating it other than to unnecessarily make the game more inaccessible and cumbersome.

    This rule set applies to everyone and accommodates solo solo play alongside group play.

    Agree with this times approximately 1 million!

  • VirtualElizabeth
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    I could be way off base here but I think it comes down to immersion and role play. IF Magic existed, it would logical to think the stronger a characters ability to throw a spell the stronger a healing spell would be - since healing is a spell. Maybe this is all ZOS was thinking about? A sense of realism in an unrealistic world.
    @ElizabethInAustin
    NA/PC
    Eleanour Masterham - Breton Templar
    Elise Masterham - Breton Magicka Nightblade
    Elinora Valen - Dunmer MagDK
    Elsa Masterham - Breton Mag Warden
  • GrumpyDuckling
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    montiferus wrote: »
    . Wouldn't it be better for game play if players had to choose between damage and healing?

    No it wouldn’t. Solo / small scale players have it hard enough as it is.

    I’m curious how large are the groups you run with in PVP?

    Usually two of us, sometimes three because we have a friend who is on/off depending on his work schedule.
  • GrumpyDuckling
    GrumpyDuckling
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    SodanTok wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    To promote solo play. Not everyone wants to run with healers. Your suggestions only help to empower ppl who crutch on group support or zerging. For solo play to be possible, characters have to be able to heal and also deal sufficient damage. I don’t see the point of separating it other than to unnecessarily make the game more inaccessible and cumbersome.

    This rule set applies to everyone and accommodates solo solo play alongside group play.

    Are you sure ZOS is promoting solo play? Their history of significant changes, which slammed solo players, suggests otherwise:

    - Dynamic Ult removal
    - Morrowind sustain nerfs
    - Attack from stealth nerf
    - AOE caps (which will finally change in the upcoming update)

    Edit: typo

    There’s a difference between promoting solo play, such as fair dueling, and promoting 1vX. They’re aggressively trying to nerf the ability to do the latter, which is very unfortunate.

    Exactly this. ZoS never really done much to help people solo vs groups. On the contrary, most changes were always to give advantage to the bigger group. But they did, with many changes, helped to promote the solo play of not having to have friends or be part of guild/group to successfully PVP.

    That requires people to have effective defense and offense. Having healing based of damage is critical part of that.

    Interesting perspective. It seems odd to me that effective defense (in this case healing) and offense is so heavily influenced by stacking damage - like, you're getting a 2 for 1 (both damage and healing) by stacking damage. But if you stack healing, you're ONLY getting healing.

    Let's take a look at this example build:

    5 pc Seventh Legion
    5 pc Clever Alchemist
    2 pc Bloodspawn

    I don't understand why this build should ALSO get strong heals on top of excellent defense and excellent damage. Why should I be rewarded so much healing by stacking damage?

    You are just confusing things now. If defense (healing) in this game was not related to offense (weapon damage for example), there would be different stat for healing that would make the same exact build perform the same exact way, because that is the desired balance.

    What you see as a problem is the desired way to allow players function. You could talk for hours about how healing is slightly overtuned in this game and you would be right, but one thing will simply never change. People will always have good healing and good damage. No matter how much stuff would change.

    When you say different "stat" for healing what do you mean?

    I'm curious why the game is designed to having healing scale on damage when there are categories specifically for healing (Healing Done, Healing Received, Healing Taken).

    Wouldn't it make sense to have those healing categories (Healing Done, Healing Received, Healing Taken) control healing, instead of damage?

    In the example with this build:

    5 pc Seventh Legion
    5 pc Clever Alchemist
    2 pc Bloodspawn

    Why should this build be able to have resistance, damage AND healing? But if I use sets with those healing categories (Healing Done, Healing Received, Healing Taken) I only get more healing that isn't nearly as valuable as damage.

    Again, you are totally confusing things. Healing Done/Received are nothing more than buffs like Berserk or Maim are. There are only 2 stats that contribute to tooltip value. Resource + Power/Damage. Every healing in this game is calculated from these two things and the value (scaling factor) is balanced with this in mind. And since healing is at the desired level, there are only 2 possibilites how to get damage out of this the way you want. Either by making healing scale only with resource or, as idk mentioned, create "Healing Power' stat. In any case, the game would be balanced in a way that would make the final healing as big as it is now.

    Yes, I think healing and damage should be separate from each other, as well as separate from attribute scaling. Healing makes more sense in its own category:

    - weapon/spell damage = combine to make one damage category (more hybrid friendly)
    - stamina/magicka/health = resources (governs casting costs and regen)
    - healing = healing
    - physical/spell resistance = combine to make one defense category (more hybrid friendly)

    I think utilizing the 4 aforementioned categories in a way similar to what is stated above makes a lot more sense than the current system, which strongly encourages players to stack a single attribute and either weapon or spell damage to achieve both high damage and high healing.

    Right now, with most builds, it's not smart for a player to divide attributes or hybridize. The game rewards players for stacking into one attribute and stacking one damage (weapon or spell) by giving them excellent damage AND excellent healing. Why make any other kind of build than one that stacks one attribute and one damage type? I am of the opinion that the current system is hurting diversity because there's not enough of a trade off for stacking one attribute and either weapon or spell damage (because we are allowed high damage and high healing on the same build).
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